Jesus on How to Choose a Church

[Dale]

Catholics have told me that the Roman Catholic Church must be the correct one because it is the oldest.

Catholics have also told me that the largest church must be the correct one, so the Roman Catholic Church must the true church on that score. We are sometimes reminded that there are over a billion Roman Catholics. Of course, the number of Roman Catholics is inflated because they count everyone who was baptized as an infant. Some of the people baptized into the RCC as an infant have rarely, if ever, been in a church since then.

If there any reason to believe that the church with the largest membership is the true church, or even the best one? Jesus may have endorsed the opposite position when He said, “… broad is the road that leads to destruction.” (Matthew 7:13-14)

Again, we are told that people know which church is the right one because they know who founded it or was its first leader.

The Bible doesn’t endorse any of these ideas. In the event of conflict between two churches, nothing in Scripture says that the oldest church is the best one, or that the largest church is the best one, or that we can know the value of a church by who founded it, or who led it in the distant past.

You might wonder if the New Testament tells us anything useful about how to choose between churches. In New Testament times, Christians were lucky to have one church in a town. They didn’t generally have a choice between two or more churches.

Jesus actually did tell us how to choose between religious teachers or religious movements.

He said, “By their fruit you will recognize them.”

[Jesus says,]
“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
By their fruit you will recognise them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.
Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Thus, by their fruit you will recognise them.
Matthew 7:14-20 NIV

The point is buttressed a few chapters later.

“Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognised by its fruit.
Matthew 12:33 NIV

There is a parallel passage in Luke.

“No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit.
Each tree is recognised by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thorn-bushes, or grapes from briers.
Luke 6:43-44 NIV

When Jesus says that Christians will know churches, religious movements and teachers by their fruit, He means that we will know them by what they do. Are their actions in harmony with the Gospel preached by Jesus? That is the test.

 

[Valletta]

“Thou are Rock (Peter), and upon this Rock I will build my Church." Matthew 16:18
That means you just need to find the Church that was built upon Peter. Remember too that the Catholic Church chose the 73 books of the Bible in a process that spanned centuries. No Catholic Church--no Bible. Also realize that the Bible is the book of the Catholic Church--not the other way around.

 

[HTacianas]

Catholics have told me that the Roman Catholic Church must be the correct one because it is the oldest.

Catholics have also told me that the largest church must be the correct one, so the Roman Catholic Church must the true church on that score. We are sometimes reminded that there are over a billion Roman Catholics. Of course, the number of Roman Catholics is inflated because they count everyone who was baptized as an infant. Some of the people baptized into the RCC as an infant have rarely, if ever, been in a church since then.

If there any reason to believe that the church with the largest membership is the true church, or even the best one? Jesus may have endorsed the opposite position when He said, “… broad is the road that leads to destruction.” (Matthew 7:13-14)

Again, we are told that people know which church is the right one because they know who founded it or was its first leader.

The Bible doesn’t endorse any of these ideas. In the event of conflict between two churches, nothing in Scripture says that the oldest church is the best one, or that the largest church is the best one, or that we can know the value of a church by who founded it, or who led it in the distant past.

You might wonder if the New Testament tells us anything useful about how to choose between churches. In New Testament times, Christians were lucky to have one church in a town. They didn’t generally have a choice between two or more churches.

Jesus actually did tell us how to choose between religious teachers or religious movements.

He said, “By their fruit you will recognize them.”

[Jesus says,]
“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
By their fruit you will recognise them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.
Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Thus, by their fruit you will recognise them.
Matthew 7:14-20 NIV

The point is buttressed a few chapters later.

“Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognised by its fruit.
Matthew 12:33 NIV

There is a parallel passage in Luke.

“No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit.
Each tree is recognised by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thorn-bushes, or grapes from briers.
Luke 6:43-44 NIV

When Jesus says that Christians will know churches, religious movements and teachers by their fruit, He means that we will know them by what they do. Are their actions in harmony with the Gospel preached by Jesus? That is the test.

That is not choosing a Church, it is recognizing an individual who is a hypocrite. The Church is not made up entirely of saints, there are also sinners in the Church. See Matthew 13:25-30.

 

[Lukaris]

I am just posting to give an example that there is evidence of the establishment of an ancient Church from the apostles to their successors. An example is the Church at Philippi in which Paul wrote his epistle and an early Christian bishop: Polycarp also spoke the congregation there a generation later. There are other examples like those of Ignatius to 2 of the same Churches Paul wrote from: Rome and Ephesus. This is not to change how one may have received their salvation but to show that an apostolic preaching has never ceased.

I believe reading Paul’s letter to Philippians and Polycarp’s faithful, post scripture, epistle shows a healthy faith was given and has never died. Despite the wretchedness of human history, the Spirit will keep our faith alive although the circumstances in which we receive it. I believe the individual Christian can know this and see that it is among Christians whether Orthodox, Catholic, or Protestant. The individual should discern carefully; there are aspects in all groups that might confuse us from where we understand our faith. We should not be casual and dilute our faith. There are some Christian groups that have fallen ( or are) falling away ( see 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4). What can help us in trying to see a living faith despite our mixed understandings is when we see the living of the Lord’s commandments ( John 14:15-18, Romans 13:8-10 etc.).

Anyway, despite my big detour, I believe the scriptural letter and the post scripture letter in faith of the Church at Philippi can only be helpful in building faith.

Polycarp to the Philippians (Lightfoot translation)

Polycarp: Polycarp to the Philippians (Lightfoot translation). On Early Christian Writings.

www.earlychristianwritings.com

St. Polycarp of Smyrna

 

[BobRyan]

Catholics have told me that the Roman Catholic Church must be the correct one because it is the oldest.

Catholics have also told me that the largest church must be the correct one, so the Roman Catholic Church must the true church on that score.

At the time of Paul the Jewish nation-church was the largest and oldest.

We are sometimes reminded that there are over a billion Roman Catholics. Of course, the number of Roman Catholics is inflated because they count everyone who was baptized as an infant. Some of the people baptized into the RCC as an infant have rarely, if ever, been in a church since then.

If there any reason to believe that the church with the largest membership is the true church, or even the best one? Jesus may have endorsed the opposite position when He said, “… broad is the road that leads to destruction.” (Matthew 7:13-14)

Again, we are told that people know which church is the right one because they know who founded it or was its first leader.

The Bible doesn’t endorse any of these ideas. In the event of conflict between two churches, nothing in Scripture says that the oldest church is the best one, or that the largest church is the best one, or that we can know the value of a church by who founded it, or who led it in the distant past.

You might wonder if the New Testament tells us anything useful about how to choose between churches. In New Testament times, Christians were lucky to have one church in a town. They didn’t generally have a choice between two or more churches.

Jesus actually did tell us how to choose between religious teachers or religious movements.

He said, “By their fruit you will recognize them.”

[Jesus says,]
“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
By their fruit you will recognise them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.
Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Thus, by their fruit you will recognise them.
Matthew 7:14-20 NIV

The point is buttressed a few chapters later.

“Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognised by its fruit.
Matthew 12:33 NIV

There is a parallel passage in Luke.

“No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit.
Each tree is recognised by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thorn-bushes, or grapes from briers.
Luke 6:43-44 NIV

When Jesus says that Christians will know churches, religious movements and teachers by their fruit, He means that we will know them by what they do. Are their actions in harmony with the Gospel preached by Jesus? That is the test.

Good points all.

 

[BobRyan]

I am just posting to give an example that there is evidence of the establishment of an ancient Church from the apostles to their successors. An example is the Church at Philippi in which Paul wrote his epistle

No doubt there was a solid line of truth and apostolic teaching from Christ to the church at Philippi at the time Paul wrote his letter to them.

Paul also spoke this warning to the church of his day in Acts 20 -

27 For I have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God. 28 Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. 29 For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves. 31 Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears.

Titus 1 we find this
7 For a bishop must be blameless, as a steward of God, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, 8 but hospitable, a lover of what is good, sober-minded, just, holy, self-controlled, 9 holding fast the faithful word as he has been taught, that he may be able, by sound doctrine, both to exhort and convict those who contradict.
10 For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, 11 whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole households, teaching things which they ought not, for the sake of dishonest gain.

Such that in 3 John 1 we find this

​

9 I wrote to the church, but Diotrephes, who loves to have the preeminence among them, does not receive us. 10 Therefore, if I come, I will call to mind his deeds which he does, prating against us with malicious words. And not content with that, he himself does not receive the brethren, and forbids those who wish to, putting them out of the church.​

 

[FireDragon76]

The Papacy in the west was an historical development, so it's misleading to say it was the earliest church. Simply intellectually dishonest. Alot of aspects of the Papacy as anything but a bishopric around Rome rest on medieval forgeries.

If one were to want to delve into what the ancient Church looked like, all the evidence I've seen suggests it was probably closer to the Syriac churches, as they seem to retain many features of early Christianity.

 

[timothyu]

No doubt there was a solid line of truth and apostolic teaching from Christ to the church at Philippi at the time Paul wrote his letter to them.

Yes but their churches were a later version of the original movement. A synagogue turning into a church does not give the church credence. It was the Jesus movement outside the synagogue that set the foundation where the people pledged allegiance to the will of God, not man's. The synagogue had failed to do this and so did it's successor.

 

[timothyu]

People need to be the church rather than go to one. Jesus started a movement, not an institution. It's rock foundation was truth from God and not from man. It followed His will, not man's. Not my interpretation. He said it in scripture. Someday His Kingdom will come and His will will be done in earth as it is in Heaven, and we will be vetted to see if we complied.

 

[ViaCrucis]

People need to be the church rather than go to one. Jesus started a movement, not an institution. It's rock foundation was truth from God and not from man. It followed His will, not man's. Not my interpretation. He said it in scripture. Someday His Kingdom will come and His will will be done in earth as it is in Heaven, and we will be vetted to see if we complied.

It's not either/or.

We are the Church, we gather together as the Church (go to church).
Jesus started a movement AND an institution.

"On this rock I will build My Church" is a statement of institution. Jesus instituted a movement, Jesus organized and assembled an Ekklesia, a Congregation, Assembly, a Called-out-Group.

Jesus instituted sacred things, saying, "Go and make disciples, baptizing them" and at His Last Supper took bread and wine and said, "This is My body ... This is My blood".

When the Apostles found they couldn't do everything, they appointed people to be deacons to share some of the load. As people heard the Gospel, believed, were baptized, communities--churches--sprang up in the various urban centers, both in and outside the Roman Empire. The Apostles appointed certain people to act in their stead, Scripture calls them episkopoi, "over-seers", aka bishops and presbyteroi, "elders", aka presbyters--together referred to more generally as poimenas, "shepherds" aka pastors.

Jesus said to Peter, "feed My sheep", the Apostles were, after Jesus ascended and the Holy Spirit came and empowered them to do their apostolic work, to act in Christ's name and stead shepherding the ever-growing flock of Jesus, the Good Shepherd. That work continued as pastors--bishops and presbyters--were appointed in communities and congregations. So, for example, Paul instructs in his letters to Timothy to fulfill his work as a pastor, "preach the word in and out of season" "do the work of a Gospel-preacher".

These are institutions that give structure to the movement and community, so that all things are done orderly, for ours is a God of order not confusion. We don't practice Christianity in a free-for-all, trying acting as little tyrants lording over others, or by asserting ourselves over our brothers and sisters, "let there not be factions among you".

Throughout the Bible the structure of an ecclesiastical governing, an order of worship and making this Christian-living--discipleship together--thing work in practical and healthy ways is constantly talked about.

I am not a Christian because I, by myself, am an island of spirituality. I am an organic member of the Body, baptized, and united to the Shepherd, Head, Lord, and Master of all things, gathered at His Table, to eat His flesh and drink His blood, to hear His voice--His word--as pastors preach, as the Sacraments are administered. This structure, this institution, is sacred. It is the sacred work of the Holy Spirit keeping us together as the branches growing out of the True Vine, Jesus. Abiding in Him, through faith, by the Spirit's power, working through Word and Sacrament, by the exercising of the Keys which Christ gave His Church, that we should daily be fed the supersubstantial bread, not merely the food that feeds the body but the food that feeds the New Man in Christ, "for man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that proceeds from the mouth of God", and we have Him who is the Bread from heaven, who gives His flesh and true heavenly bread and His blood as true heavenly drink. So feeding and being sustained by the word of God, by the Sacraments.

All these things as profound grace and miracle that sustains us, keeps us. This Mystery that surrounds us, and holds us, and captivates us. Christ the Lord in our midst, surrounding us, in us. Christ above us, Christ before us, Christ in the midst of us, Christ on our right and on our left. The Gospel of our freedom declared from every direction. Calling us, drawing us, upholding us. The love of God never failing, never being separated from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus "for neither height nor depth...". Christ within us the hope of glory.

There is all this amazing mysterious food in the sacred pages of Scripture that feeds us, nourishing us with the Mystery, calling us to faith, preserving us that we should endure and not stumble. God Himself loving us, actively, justifying us, sanctifying us. And it's all here, in these "institutions" not as man-made structures that lack power; not institutions as man would have them; but as God makes them and gives them.

For there is a Cornerstone, a Foundation, and a Head, that is below and above the Church. The solid ground upon which the Church stands--all else is sinking sand. That surrounds the Church as her spiritual walls, there is a floor and a ceiling, and it's Jesus.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[FireDragon76]

It's not either/or.

We are the Church, we gather together as the Church (go to church).
Jesus started a movement AND an institution.

"On this rock I will build My Church" is a statement of institution. Jesus instituted a movement, Jesus organized and assembled an Ekklesia, a Congregation, Assembly, a Called-out-Group.

Jesus instituted sacred things, saying, "Go and make disciples, baptizing them" and at His Last Supper took bread and wine and said, "This is My body ... This is My blood".

When the Apostles found they couldn't do everything, they appointed people to be deacons to share some of the load. As people heard the Gospel, believed, were baptized, communities--churches--sprang up in the various urban centers, both in and outside the Roman Empire. The Apostles appointed certain people to act in their stead, Scripture calls them episkopoi, "over-seers", aka bishops and presbyteroi, "elders", aka presbyters--together referred to more generally as poimenas, "shepherds" aka pastors.

Jesus said to Peter, "feed My sheep", the Apostles were, after Jesus ascended and the Holy Spirit came and empowered them to do their apostolic work, to act in Christ's name and stead shepherding the ever-growing flock of Jesus, the Good Shepherd. That work continued as pastors--bishops and presbyters--were appointed in communities and congregations. So, for example, Paul instructs in his letters to Timothy to fulfill his work as a pastor, "preach the word in and out of season" "do the work of a Gospel-preacher".

These are institutions that give structure to the movement and community, so that all things are done orderly, for ours is a God of order not confusion. We don't practice Christianity in a free-for-all, trying acting as little tyrants lording over others, or by asserting ourselves over our brothers and sisters, "let there not be factions among you".

Throughout the Bible the structure of an ecclesiastical governing, an order of worship and making this Christian-living--discipleship together--thing work in practical and healthy ways is constantly talked about.

I am not a Christian because I, by myself, am an island of spirituality. I am an organic member of the Body, baptized, and united to the Shepherd, Head, Lord, and Master of all things, gathered at His Table, to eat His flesh and drink His blood, to hear His voice--His word--as pastors preach, as the Sacraments are administered. This structure, this institution, is sacred. It is the sacred work of the Holy Spirit keeping us together as the branches growing out of the True Vine, Jesus. Abiding in Him, through faith, by the Spirit's power, working through Word and Sacrament, by the exercising of the Keys which Christ gave His Church, that we should daily be fed the supersubstantial bread, not merely the food that feeds the body but the food that feeds the New Man in Christ, "for man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that proceeds from the mouth of God", and we have Him who is the Bread from heaven, who gives His flesh and true heavenly bread and His blood as true heavenly drink. So feeding and being sustained by the word of God, by the Sacraments.

All these things as profound grace and miracle that sustains us, keeps us. This Mystery that surrounds us, and holds us, and captivates us. Christ the Lord in our midst, surrounding us, in us. Christ above us, Christ before us, Christ in the midst of us, Christ on our right and on our left. The Gospel of our freedom declared from every direction. Calling us, drawing us, upholding us. The love of God never failing, never being separated from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus "for neither height nor depth...". Christ within us the hope of glory.

There is all this amazing mysterious food in the sacred pages of Scripture that feeds us, nourishing us with the Mystery, calling us to faith, preserving us that we should endure and not stumble. God Himself loving us, actively, justifying us, sanctifying us. And it's all here, in these "institutions" not as man-made structures that lack power; not institutions as man would have them; but as God makes them and gives them.

For there is a Cornerstone, a Foundation, and a Head, that is below and above the Church. The solid ground upon which the Church stands--all else is sinking sand. That surrounds the Church as her spiritual walls, there is a floor and a ceiling, and it's Jesus.

-CryptoLutheran

The idea you can be a Christian all on your own without other Christians, without the communion of saints, is not only false, more importantly, it's impoverishing.

My favorite day of the liturgical year is Maundy Thursday, the Day of the Mandate, where Jesus institutes the Lord's Supper. The Lord's Supper requires an institution, indeed, it is the very institution that makes the Church. The earliest Christians met on every Sunday to offer the Eucharist, the Great Thanksgiving and The Unbloody Sacrifice. It was the rite that defined Christians in their identity. Not a Bible (it didn't exist as such), and not an ethic, but a rite.

 

[Dale]

That is not choosing a Church, it is recognizing an individual who is a hypocrite. The Church is not made up entirely of saints, there are also sinners in the Church. See Matthew 13:25-30.

It is perfectly sensible to see the tree as a church and the branches as individual members.

 

[Dale]

“Thou are Rock (Peter), and upon this Rock I will build my Church." Matthew 16:18
That means you just need to find the Church that was headed by Peter. Remember too that the Catholic Church chose the 73 books of the Bible in a process that spanned centuries. No Catholic Church--no Bible. Also realize that the Bible is the book of the Catholic Church--not the other way around.

Valleta: “Remember too that the Catholic Church chose the 73 books of the Bible in a process that spanned centuries. No Catholic Church--no Bible. Also realize that the Bible is the book of the Catholic Church--not the other way around.”

This isn’t true. The Gospels and the Epistles were written before the Catholic Church was organized. The Gospels were not commissioned by any organized body, although they were each products of a community of Christians. The Church accepted the Old Testament recognized by Jewish authorities.

 

[Dale]

“Thou are Rock (Peter), and upon this Rock I will build my Church." Matthew 16:18
That means you just need to find the Church that was headed by Peter. Remember too that the Catholic Church chose the 73 books of the Bible in a process that spanned centuries. No Catholic Church--no Bible. Also realize that the Bible is the book of the Catholic Church--not the other way around.

Valletta: “Thou are Rock (Peter), and upon this Rock I will build my Church."

You are changing the subject. Rather than deal with the verse I quoted, you remind us that to the RCC, the New Testament says, “See Pope for instructions on what to do.”

The claim that Jesus made Peter the first Pope in Matthew 16 does not hold up. I could easily make several replies. Try this for a starter.

Then James and John, the sons of Zebedee, came to him.
“Teacher,” they said, “we want you to do for us whatever we
ask.”
“What do you want me to do for you?” he asked.
They replied, “Let one of us sit at your right and the other at
your left in your glory.”
“You don’t know what you are asking,” Jesus said. “Can you
drink the cup I drink or be baptised with the baptism I am
baptised with?”
“We can,” they answered. Jesus said to them, “You will drink
the cup I drink and be baptised with the baptism I am
baptised with,
but to sit at my right or left is not for me to grant. These
places belong to those for whom they have been prepared.”
Mark 10:35-40 NIV


James and John ask for a special place in the coming Kingdom, not their best moment. Roman Catholics claim that Peter is the Chief Apostle. The Catholic Encyclopedia calls Peter the Prince of the Apostles. If Jesus had already made Peter the Prince of the Apostles, the conversation between, Jesus, James and John in Mark 10 would be impossible. It would be nonsense. They could hardly ask for the two top positions if the top position was already taken. Roman Catholics have simply misunderstood Peter’s confession in Matthew 16, and its consequences.

When did the conversation in Mark 10 happen? In Matthew, Peter’s confession is in Matthew 16, and the Transfiguration is in Matthew 17, shortly afterwards. In Mark, the Transfiguration takes place in Mark 9 and James and John make their unreasonable demand in the next chapter, Mark 10. The order of events is:

Peter’s confession
The Transfiguration
James and John ask for special favor.

James and John make their request for special positions after Peter’s confession, which cannot mean what the RCC says it means.

 

[Dale]

“Thou are Rock (Peter), and upon this Rock I will build my Church." Matthew 16:18
That means you just need to find the Church that was headed by Peter. Remember too that the Catholic Church chose the 73 books of the Bible in a process that spanned centuries. No Catholic Church--no Bible. Also realize that the Bible is the book of the Catholic Church--not the other way around.

Here is what John Gill’s commentary has to say about Peter’s confession and the blessing that follows.

The meaning of “church”:

<< “And upon this rock will I build my church” ... the elect of God, the general assembly and church of the first born, whose names are written in heaven; and especially such of them as were to be gathered in, and built on Christ, from among the Jews and Gentiles. >>

The significance of Peter:

<< By the rock on which Christ builds his church, is meant, not the person of
Peter; for Christ does not say, upon thee Peter, but upon this rock, referring
to something distinct from him: for though his name signifies a rock, or
stone, and there may be some allusion to it; and he is so called because of
his trust and confidence in the Lord … >>

Further,

<< Moreover, what is said to
Peter in these, and the following words, is not said to him personally and
separately from the rest of the apostles, but is designed for them, as well as
him, as appears by comparing them with Mt 18:18. >>


What does Matthew 18:18 tell us?

“I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.
“Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about
anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in
heaven. For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them.
Matthew 18:18-20


On binding and loosing, Jesus uses the same words here that He uses after Peter’s confession, except that He is more clearly speaking to all Christians.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Catholics have told me that the Roman Catholic Church must be the correct one because it is the oldest.

Catholics have also told me that the largest church must be the correct one, so the Roman Catholic Church must the true church on that score. We are sometimes reminded that there are over a billion Roman Catholics. Of course, the number of Roman Catholics is inflated because they count everyone who was baptized as an infant. Some of the people baptized into the RCC as an infant have rarely, if ever, been in a church since then.

If there any reason to believe that the church with the largest membership is the true church, or even the best one? Jesus may have endorsed the opposite position when He said, “… broad is the road that leads to destruction.” (Matthew 7:13-14)

Again, we are told that people know which church is the right one because they know who founded it or was its first leader.

The Bible doesn’t endorse any of these ideas. In the event of conflict between two churches, nothing in Scripture says that the oldest church is the best one, or that the largest church is the best one, or that we can know the value of a church by who founded it, or who led it in the distant past.

You might wonder if the New Testament tells us anything useful about how to choose between churches. In New Testament times, Christians were lucky to have one church in a town. They didn’t generally have a choice between two or more churches.

Jesus actually did tell us how to choose between religious teachers or religious movements.

He said, “By their fruit you will recognize them.”

[Jesus says,]
“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
By their fruit you will recognise them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.
Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Thus, by their fruit you will recognise them.
Matthew 7:14-20 NIV

The point is buttressed a few chapters later.

“Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognised by its fruit.
Matthew 12:33 NIV

There is a parallel passage in Luke.

“No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit.
Each tree is recognised by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thorn-bushes, or grapes from briers.
Luke 6:43-44 NIV

When Jesus says that Christians will know churches, religious movements and teachers by their fruit, He means that we will know them by what they do. Are their actions in harmony with the Gospel preached by Jesus? That is the test.

If Jesus were in the habit of answering requests to know which is the right Church, which he appears not to be, then I hazard the guess that Jesus would express puzzlement that any should ask such a question because he is the head of only one church. That Church is the one that the Lord, Jesus Christ, discussed briefly with saint Peter as recorded in these words:

When Jesus and his disciples were near the town of Caesarea Philippi, he asked them, "What do people say about the Son of Man?" The disciples answered, "Some people say you are John the Baptist or maybe Elijah or Jeremiah or some other prophet." Then Jesus asked them, "But who do you say I am?" Simon Peter spoke up, "You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God." Jesus told him: Simon, son of Jonah, you are blessed! You didn't discover this on your own. It was shown to you by my Father in heaven. So I will call you Peter, which means "a rock." On this rock I will build my church, and death itself will not have any power over it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven, and God in heaven will allow whatever you allow on earth. But he will not allow anything that you don't allow. Jesus told his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.​

Matthew 16:13-20

 

[Valletta]

Here is what John Gill’s commentary has to say about Peter’s confession and the blessing that follows.

The meaning of “church”:

<< “And upon this rock will I build my church” ... the elect of God, the general assembly and church of the first born, whose names are written in heaven; and especially such of them as were to be gathered in, and built on Christ, from among the Jews and Gentiles. >>

The significance of Peter:

<< By the rock on which Christ builds his church, is meant, not the person of
Peter; for Christ does not say, upon thee Peter, but upon this rock, referring
to something distinct from him: for though his name signifies a rock, or
stone, and there may be some allusion to it; and he is so called because of
his trust and confidence in the Lord … >>

Further,

<< Moreover, what is said to
Peter in these, and the following words, is not said to him personally and
separately from the rest of the apostles, but is designed for them, as well as
him, as appears by comparing them with Mt 18:18. >>


What does Matthew 18:18 tell us?

“I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.
“Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about
anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in
heaven. For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them.
Matthew 18:18-20


On binding and loosing, Jesus uses the same words here that He uses after Peter’s confession, except that He is more clearly speaking to all Christians.

Mr. Gill seems to be confused by the English translation. Simon was renamed Kepha or Cephas (transliterated) which means Rock in Aramaic.
The original would be "Thou art Kepha and upon this Kepha I will build my Church." Additionally, Jesus used words paralleling Isaiah 22 in giving Peter, and no other Apostle, the keys to the kingdom. In Isaiah, the king gives the keys to the kingdom to his prime minister as a sign of authority.

 

[timothyu]

Yes lets build the church to resemble all other institutions of man that went before, rather than focusing as Jesus said on God's truth, the foundation of His church which was nothing more than doing God's will which is loving all as self. The people are the church for a reason as each strives to do the will of God while no large entity can exist without first protecting itself. which defeats the purpose of putting the needs of others first.

 

[splish- splash]

It is not true that, if a Church has been around for longer than others, it means it is the true Church of God.

The true Church of God are the children of God all around the world, who continue to be led by the spirit of God in worshipping Him in spirit & in truth.

Any saint who is destined for heaven but is currently fellowshipping where they shouldn't, will be led to the right place in God's time.

The word of God on it's own will straight away reveal whether or not the Roman Catholic Church is being led by the spirit of God.

 

[FireDragon76]

Jesus never says the church is invisible. Early Protestants certainly did not believe the Church was invisible, either. What would be the point in an invisible Church?