Where would you move if you had a virtual job as an Orthodox man? Russia, Romania, etc.?

[ValeriyK2022]

interesting stuff, thanks!

you are welcome

 

[SingularityOne]

I'd stay right where I am, to work with Orthodox faithful from within my own parish community, and all of the surrounding parish communities in the Syracuse/Auburn, NY area on collaboratively/cooperatively building a center for us (all Orthodox faithful from around the area) to better minister to the various needs of our children and youth within the Church (and their families) and all of the adults who, thusly called, would be ministering to them. Also, to use our center to help equip the Orthodox faithful who are thusly called, to provide rehabilitation to men and women who are afflicted with drug or alcohol addiction in the Orthodox manner that has been developed by certain Orthodox Christians in other places and to develop the physical facilities (buildings and grounds) for this ministry to take place in. Also, to use our center to help equip the Orthodox faithful who are thusly called, to provide hospitality and care to the homeless and poor, many with mental illnesses, and to develop the facilities (buildings and grounds) for this ministry to be provided in.

Are you in the mental health field as well?

 

[truefiction1]

Are you in the mental health field as well?

No, actually, just seemingly surrounded by people everywhere who could be better served by such ministries flowing from Orthodox Tradition.

 

[SingularityOne]

No, actually, just seemingly surrounded by people everywhere who could be better served by such ministries flowing from Orthodox Tradition.

Got you, that’s a major need everywhere I think. But, nice idea. How’s it coming along?

 

[Dewi Sant]

As one who has this option open to him (well, more so when the UK was in the EU), I could have moved to Greece to my good friend's flat in Thessaloniki.
Aside from the unbearable heat waves, I never really found it an attractive option.
I am British, and I feel tied to this land and its people. All its glories, and flaws together (and oh, so many flaws!).
Maybe I lack courage, but I find it very hard to move town or county, let alone state. It amazes me how Americans seem to move state so easily and for reasons like work and church.
But my family is here, and so too are my debts. My family hasn't left this river valley for the past recorded 500 years, maybe millenium; so maybe that has some effect on me; and I am blessed with a wonderful Orthodox church, even if I don't attend anywhere near as often as perhaps I should.
Saying all that, I suppose if I were to move anywhere, it would be somewhere remote like the Scottish Highlands, or more familiar and almost as remote, the rugged and sparsely populated coast of west Wales where I enjoyed my college days.
If I were to move to Greece or some other traditionally Orthodox country, the requirements would be similar. Some island perhaps with only a seasonal ferry crossing and no airport.
If I were to be working remotely, that suggests I would be connected by the internet, and that is the main issue for me. The internet is a great passion for me, having all that information at the touch of a few buttons on the keyboard. Rapidly updated encyclopedias, blogs, messageboards, podcasts etc etc.
Now if I could work remotely but submit the work via a weekly postal or 3rd party upload service via an in-person messenger of some sort, that would be nice...though I would still want a good atlas and encyclopedia for downtime

 

[truefiction1]

Got you, that’s a major need everywhere I think. But, nice idea. How’s it coming along?

It's only an idea at this point. More pieces and Othodox people will need to come together for any "works" to manifest.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I've heard of a few. Unfortunately, again, it was about 90% Antiochian this last time and you had more Copts then you did non-Antiochians. I don't mind Arabs nor the Antiochian Archdiocese, but the problem is that I just don't fit their mold. I'm not a banker, doctor, lawyer, or engineer like most Arab-Americans. I'm not an ex-Protestant convert like most Americans in that jurisdiction. I don't think that Antioch is the beacon of Orthodox stability in the world (trust me, they have their corruption like anyone else). And to top it off I have zero problem criticizing the way that Arabic culture treats women. And absolutely none of this helps when dealing with THAT crowd

The ROCOR in this area is relatively normal, however, I don't fit their either. I'm too much of a free-thinker, I don't think Russia is the center of the universe, I don't consider my own American culture to be "barbarian", I have zero interest in becoming Russian, and, like with the Antiochians, I think that we actually do need a single jurisdiction in America that is truly autocephalous. The OCA in this area is, frankly, trash because the people are not social whatsoever and they allowed the fear of COVID rule their lives. The Greeks in this area are the epitome of all that's wrong with their jurisdiction: putting being Greek above being Christian, much less Orthodox. I visited St Sophia's Cathedral on the day of the Three Hierarchs because a friend of mine had asked to be visit and not once was their any mention of who the Three Hierarchs were or what they did; rather, they went on and on about how beautiful and important the Greek alphabet is and supposedly without it Orthodoxy simply wouldn't exist (give me a break)
I felt the same way about an “American Orthodox Church,” but I think being spiritually linked to the old countries can be a real benefit. The Serbian culture is not as consumer-driven, despises the LGBT way of life, clings to the nuclear family, is grounded in traditions, and has a piety I appreciate. The West is so deeply steeped in greed, porn, electronics, egocentrism, control, politics, and un-intellectual, that having a link to the old countries can be a lifeline. Our Patriarch Porfirije and Bishop Maxim are superb.



ANATHEMA!

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I would go to Ethiopia. May be Oriental Orthodox, but most hospitable people in the world and best food.

Their bishops were selected by Antioch until very late, maybe 12th century. Hard to tell because they don't have a culture of open debate, but probably by my experience, are usually within tradition.

Live in Ethiopia!?!?

 

[Dogheaded]

Live in Ethiopia!?!?

Denaning exhaubiar yemeskin. Amaringa iyestamarko no. Ishi, chow.

 

[E.C.]

I felt the same way about an “American Orthodox Church,” but I think being spiritually linked to the old countries can be a real benefit. The Serbian culture is not as consumer-driven, despises the LGBT way of life, clings to the nuclear family, is grounded in traditions, and has a piety I appreciate. The West is so deeply steeped in greed, inappropriate content, electronics, egocentrism, control, politics, and un-intellectual, that having a link to the old countries can be a lifeline. Our Patriarch Porfirije and Bishop Maxim are superb.

There is still PLENTY of American culture that is not consumer-driver, despises the LGBT way of life, clings to the nuclear family, is grounded in traditions, and has piety. Just because the Californistan so-called "entertainment industry" portrays the opposite does not by any means mean that that is the reality everywhere. Los Angeles California Entertainment Culture does not have the monopoly on what defines American culture any more or less than what the Serbs (or anyone else for that matter) have on Orthodoxy.

The Old Countries, of which I have zero ties to, have just as many problems, if not more, than we do. The difference is we have the maturity to say "yes, this problem exists" and most of the time we deal with it in some way, shape or form.

And frankly, the more Serbia and the rest of the former Warsaw Pact become part of the EU and NATO, the more they too will be consumer driven just like we supposedly are. Just because someone else's Orthodoxy is older does not automatically make it better. Of course if we spent half as much time improving our own selves and our own culture as we do idolizing someone else's than just maybe we would become a fraction as holy as we think they are.

EDIT: for me to get a "like" from rusmeister here you know I've made a good point or two

 

[Dewi Sant]

There is still PLENTY of American culture that is not consumer-driver, despises the LGBT way of life, clings to the nuclear family, is grounded in traditions, and has piety.

yes,
and as my old theology supervisor said 'the public forum is like a swimming pool; all the noise comes from the shallow end'
btw, the nuclear family is good, but not ideal. Multi-generational families are preferable in my opinion. The concept of the familienhaus, where nuclear satellite families come together for the greater oikos of the family is a beautiful idea.
Just think how transformative it would be for the experience of mothers and their children if the burden of child rearing weren't entirely upon them, but was distributed among uncles, aunts, and grandparents (without necessitating a significant travelling distance between addresses)

 

[E.C.]

yes,
and as my old theology supervisor said 'the public forum is like a swimming pool; all the noise comes from the shallow end'
btw, the nuclear family is good, but not ideal. Multi-generational families are preferable in my opinion. The concept of the familienhaus, where nuclear satellite families come together for the greater oikos of the family is a beautiful idea.
Just think how transformative it would be for the experience of mothers and their children if the burden of child rearing weren't entirely upon them, but was distributed among uncles, aunts, and grandparents (without necessitating a significant travelling distance between addresses)

Multigeneral households sound fine, until you meet my relatives

But a multigenerational block? I can get by that. Or even how in northeastern Pennsylvania you have multiple generations of families (both Orthodox and non) all in their own homes across the various small towns in that valley.

 

[Dorothea]

yes,
and as my old theology supervisor said 'the public forum is like a swimming pool; all the noise comes from the shallow end'
btw, the nuclear family is good, but not ideal. Multi-generational families are preferable in my opinion. The concept of the familienhaus, where nuclear satellite families come together for the greater oikos of the family is a beautiful idea.
Just think how transformative it would be for the experience of mothers and their children if the burden of child rearing weren't entirely upon them, but was distributed among uncles, aunts, and grandparents (without necessitating a significant travelling distance between addresses)

Yes. And that's how it used to be even in this country many many years ago.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Yes. And that's how it used to be even in this country many many years ago.

yep, that’s what I remember growing up

 

[rusmeister]

yes,
and as my old theology supervisor said 'the public forum is like a swimming pool; all the noise comes from the shallow end'
btw, the nuclear family is good, but not ideal. Multi-generational families are preferable in my opinion. The concept of the familienhaus, where nuclear satellite families come together for the greater oikos of the family is a beautiful idea.
Just think how transformative it would be for the experience of mothers and their children if the burden of child rearing weren't entirely upon them, but was distributed among uncles, aunts, and grandparents (without necessitating a significant travelling distance between addresses)

The expression “the nuclear family” was invented in the 20th century to identify the bare minimum constituency of a family. I don’t think we generally use the term to exclude or deny the idea of extended family; the latter term simply focuses on those outside of “the nucleus”.

That said, your idea is right, and it certainly has been a tragedy throughout the West over the past 75 years in particular, as well as in my own family. My mother died in a distant grave, buried by aliens (foreigners) unattended by family because of this breakup of both the extended and nuclear family.

GK Chesterton’s book, “What’s Wrong With the World”(1910), deals with the family and the forces interested in breaking it up. It has helped me understand a lot better what is going on. I spent the last several years getting it translated and await its release in September.

 

[rusmeister]

This whole thread is a reaction to the breaking down of society. But the breakdown is happening everywhere. As CS Lewis said in “That Hideous Strength”, “The shadow of one dark wing covers all Tellus (the Earth)”.

This is an essay that sums up ideas in Chesterton's book:

“Chesterton’s book, What’s Wrong with the World, was supposedly written in 1910. But there is good evidence that it was actually written today.

Our society is experiencing exactly the crisis that Chesterton warned us about almost a century ago. There is a greater disparity than ever between the rich and poor. Our families are falling apart, our schools are in utter chaos, our basic freedoms are under assault. It affects every one of us. As Chesterton says, “Not only are we all in the same boat, but we are all seasick.”

But while we agree about the evil, we no longer agree about the good. The main thing that is wrong with the world is that we do not ask what is right. It is the loss of ideals that makes reform such a difficult task.

Some people say that idealism is impractical. But Chesterton says, “Idealism is only considering everything in its practical essence.” In other words, idealism is common sense. It is what the common man knows is right, in spite of all the voices telling him it is impractical or unrealistic or out-dated. And when Chesterton says idealism, he means the Christian ideal. “The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried.” It would mean the ideal house and the happy family, the holy family of history. It would mean making laws that respect the family as the most important unit of society, and laws which are moral and respect religious principles. It would mean the widespread distribution of property and capital to provide for greater justice and liberty. It would mean not being afraid to teach the truth to our children. But we have left the truth behind us. And instead of turning around and going back and fixing things, we rush madly forward towards we know not what, and call ourselves, “progressive.” Instead of the solid family and the church and the republic being held up as ideals, these things are now assailed by those who have never known them, or by those who have failed to fulfill them. “Men invent new ideals because they are afraid to attempt old ideals. They look forward with enthusiasm, because they are afraid to look back.”

Although this book is a work of non-fiction, Chesterton introduces us to two characters: Hudge and Gudge. Well, three characters: he also introduces us to Jones. Hudge and Gudge are the enemies of Jones. Simply put, Hudge is Big Government and Gudge is Big Business. And Jones? Jones is the common man. “This man Jones has always desired ordinary things; he has married for love, he has chosen or built a small house that fits like a coat; he is ready to be great grandfather and a local [hero].” But something has gone wrong. Hudge and Gudge have conspired against Jones to take away his property, his independence, and his dignity.

The home is the only place of liberty. “Property is merely the art of democracy. It means that every man should have something that he can shape in his own image…To give nearly everybody ordinary houses would please nearly everybody.” But in a society where most people cannot afford their own home, and they cannot properly support themselves but have to be someone else’s wage slave, easily sacked, easily replaced and displaced, having to rely on the government to supplement their needs, in other words, when they are totally at the mercy of Hudge and Gudge, it means enormous pressure is put on the family, and it means the society will crumble from the bottom up. The society is especially in danger when the common man, left reeling by the loss of religion, of home, of family, is not even sure what he wants any more.

Man has always lost his way. He has been a tramp ever since Eden; but he always knew, or thought he knew, what he was looking for. Every man has a house somewhere in the elaborate cosmos; his house waits for him… But in the bleak and blinding hail of skepticism to which he has been now so long subjected , he has begun for the first time to be chilled, not merely in his hopes, but in his desires. For the first time in history he begins really to doubt the object of his wanderings on earth. He has always lost his way; but now he has lost his address.

One of the most famous lines in all of Chesterton’s writings is found in this book: “If a thing is worth doing, it is worth doing badly.” For some reason, people puzzle on this. Or else use it to defend their own slovenly ways. But it is a ringing defense of the amateur, the person who does a wide variety of things out of love rather than one specialized thing out of mere professionalism. The person who best understands the “uproarious amateurishness of the universe” is the woman, the mother who has to be the first to explain the entire universe to a child. When the mother is pulled out of the home and made a specialist, working for Hudge and Gudge, the child is left to be raised by “experts.” Thus, both the mother and the child become narrower. And so does the whole society as the family of course is ripped apart. And so is every integral element of society torn apart from everything else. The world, says Chesterton, “is one wild divorce court.” Religion is banned from the classroom. So are the parents. So is common sense. Each subject is taught in a vacuum. Each profession is increasingly narrow. People more know more and more about less and less.

What’s wrong with the world? Take a good look around.”
Dale Ahlquist