Are we subject to the Old Covenant today?

[Studyman]

Allow me to digress for a bit, but I had a thought.

Is Christianity being established solely on the basis of theological research?

“For the kingdom of God is not a matter of talk but of power.” (1 Cor 4:20, 2 Tim 3:7)​

​

“And if a revelation comes to someone who is seated, the first speaker should stop. For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged.” (1 Cor 14:30-31, 12:31, 14:1)​

So then, are you teaching that "ALL" the differing religious sects of this world who call Jesus Lord, Lord should be listened to?

So when the elder of the LDS church prophesies, we all should listen and consider that his words are inspired by the Spirit of Christ. But when the JW Elder has a revelation, the LDS preacher should stop, so we can all listen and consider the Prophesies of the Jehovah Witness. Then if a Calvinist is sitting and claims to have a revelation from God, the others should stop and all listen and consider his prophesies until the Pope says he receives a revelation for God, and then stop and listen to him until the SDA elder claims to have a prophesy etc. etc.?

I don't believe this was what Paul's was teaching.

​

“For it is not the one who commends himself who is approved, but the one whom the Lord commends.” (2 Cor 10:18, Rom 8:30)​

The leaders of the Apostolic church have spiritual gifts because God was with them, and they taught the believers to seek these gifts since they were direct indicators of God's approval. (Acts 5:16, 21:10-11; Mark 16:17). A "religion" must have a living God who demonstrates His existence; it is not intended to be a society of people who rely solely on the records of scripture passed down from generation to generation.

That is your belief but shouldn't the Christ of the Bible's Words mean something, who said; "It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God."

And aren't we pretty sure that Paul was inspired by the Christ?

2 Tim. 3: 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

And again;

1 Cor. 9: 9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen? 10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.

and again;

1 Cor. 10: 1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;

11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. 12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

At what point are we to reject or ignore the Holy scriptures in favor of our own traditions or desires?

Buddhism, Hinduism, and other religions each have their own set of scriptures.

But when given the chance, the Jesus of the Bible didn't worry about Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam or even Atheists. Of all the religions of this world, HE warned His people of only ONE especially dangerous religious sect.

Matt, 24: 3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I (Jesus) am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Jesus wasn't worried for His People about what men would do with the scriptures of Buddhism or Islam. But HE was certainly worried for His people about what men would do with the Holy Scriptures.

The Most High has done numerous things in the Bible and is never completely silent. If the prayer of a righteous man has immense power to prevail, Prophet Elijah was a man like us, he prayed earnestly that it would not rain, and it did not rain on the land for three and a half years (Jam 5:17), were our prayers as effective before we began to contend with others about the truth? If, after all of our research, we find that there is no power/gift in us as taught in the Bible, we have already verified that we are on the wrong track because the scripture expresses these. What I mean is, don't you think Satan tricked us all into misinterpreting our religion and reducing it to a mere body of information with no power, and yet we're still correcting one another about the "text"?

I understand your logic here. But satan is said to disguise itself as an Apostle of Christ. And the religions of this world have long since co-opted "some" of God's Word to deceive, as far back as Eve, who was deceived by a voice that quoted "some" of God's Word. And it is written, And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

We are told to "test the spirits". We are told that there are those who profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

We are in a battle against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. ( I find this to be our minds where the temple of God exists)

And the most compelling witness is the Christ Himself, who battled openly against deceivers who claimed to know God, but "Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition."

What if the Scriptures are the Armor of God HE gave to keep us safe from all those religions of this world HE placed us in? What if we, like Abraham, are called to leave the religions and religious traditions of this world we were born into, and "Yield ourselves" servant to obey God as Abraham did and Paul teaches? What if this world's religions are the snare, with their manmade shrines of worship, and their manmade high days, and sabbaths? There would certainly be a cost for this much Faith in the Word of God who became flesh. You would be ridiculed by "ALL" religions equally because they can't survive without members to support them financially.

What if Biblical Truth is worth seeking because Jesus was telling us the Truth about "Truth"?

Anyway, I understand your perspective and have considered it myself. But the Scriptures changed my mind.

 

[Guojing]

The leaders of the Apostolic church have spiritual gifts because God was with them, and they taught the believers to seek these gifts since they were direct indicators of God's approval. (Acts 5:16, 21:10-11; Mark 16:17). A "religion" must have a living God who demonstrates His existence; it is not intended to be a society of people who rely solely on the records of scripture passed down from generation to generation. Buddhism, Hinduism, and other religions each have their own set of scriptures. The Most High has done numerous things in the Bible and is never completely silent. If the prayer of a righteous man has immense power to prevail, Prophet Elijah was a man like us, he prayed earnestly that it would not rain, and it did not rain on the land for three and a half years (Jam 5:17), were our prayers as effective before we began to contend with others about the truth? If, after all of our research, we find that there is no power/gift in us as taught in the Bible, we have already verified that we are on the wrong track because the scripture expresses these. What I mean is, don't you think Satan tricked us all into misinterpreting our religion and reducing it to a mere body of information with no power, and yet we're still correcting one another about the "text"?

What if you had lived during the 400 years of silence between Malachi and the birth of John the Baptist?

You can imagine there will be many Jews who are thinking like yourself now? If there was the Internet, they would even be debating about it. =)

 

[Cornelius8L]

What if you had lived during the 400 years of silence between Malachi and the birth of John the Baptist?

You can imagine there will be many Jews who are thinking like yourself now? If there was the Internet, they would even be debating about it. =)

Isn't thinking preferable to ignoring it? And, as Prophet Malachi has said, the 400-year silence appears to be the consequence of disobedience and those who were oblivious of their actions (Malachi chapter 1,2,3).So it's not that they aren't thinking about it; it's just that they aren't thinking about it and acting on it correctly.

 

[Cornelius8L]

So then, are you teaching that "ALL" the differing religious sects of this world who call Jesus Lord, Lord should be listened to?

So when the elder of the LDS church prophesies, we all should listen and consider that his words are inspired by the Spirit of Christ. But when the JW Elder has a revelation, the LDS preacher should stop, so we can all listen and consider the Prophesies of the Jehovah Witness. Then if a Calvinist is sitting and claims to have a revelation from God, the others should stop and all listen and consider his prophesies until the Pope says he receives a revelation for God, and then stop and listen to him until the SDA elder claims to have a prophesy etc. etc.?

I don't believe this was what Paul's was teaching.



That is your belief but shouldn't the Christ of the Bible's Words mean something, who said; "It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God."

And aren't we pretty sure that Paul was inspired by the Christ?

2 Tim. 3: 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

And again;

1 Cor. 9: 9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen? 10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.

and again;

1 Cor. 10: 1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;

11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. 12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

At what point are we to reject or ignore the Holy scriptures in favor of our own traditions or desires?



But when given the chance, the Jesus of the Bible didn't worry about Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam or even Atheists. Of all the religions of this world, HE warned His people of only ONE especially dangerous religious sect.

Matt, 24: 3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I (Jesus) am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Jesus wasn't worried for His People about what men would do with the scriptures of Buddhism or Islam. But HE was certainly worried for His people about what men would do with the Holy Scriptures.



I understand your logic here. But satan is said to disguise itself as an Apostle of Christ. And the religions of this world have long since co-opted "some" of God's Word to deceive, as far back as Eve, who was deceived by a voice that quoted "some" of God's Word. And it is written, And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

We are told to "test the spirits". We are told that there are those who profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

We are in a battle against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. ( I find this to be our minds where the temple of God exists)

And the most compelling witness is the Christ Himself, who battled openly against deceivers who claimed to know God, but "Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition."

What if the Scriptures are the Armor of God HE gave to keep us safe from all those religions of this world HE placed us in? What if we, like Abraham, are called to leave the religions and religious traditions of this world we were born into, and "Yield ourselves" servant to obey God as Abraham did and Paul teaches? What if this world's religions are the snare, with their manmade shrines of worship, and their manmade high days, and sabbaths? There would certainly be a cost for this much Faith in the Word of God who became flesh. You would be ridiculed by "ALL" religions equally because they can't survive without members to support them financially.

What if Biblical Truth is worth seeking because Jesus was telling us the Truth about "Truth"?

Anyway, I understand your perspective and have considered it myself. But the Scriptures changed my mind.

I completely agree with you that testing the spirit since it completes the truth. I propose that we renew ourselves and seek these gifts and prayers answered as instructed since it completes "every word" that God spoke. Isn't it also true that incomplete or partial truth is not all truth? Because we know that deceiving oneself (about truth) is more lethal than anything else, and it is Satan's weapon. Effective lies/deceit are truth misdirection, or partly truth and partial falsehoods.

We know that Jesus says, "Not all who call me Lord, Lord" (Matthew 7:21-23), followed by "Therefore, everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them is like a wise man who built his house on the rock." God's words mention seeking these gifts and prayers answered in order to wage spiritual battles against deceitful spirits. They are not physical beings, but rather spiritual beings. God's armor contains the truth, and the truth informed us about these. The armor is incomplete without them. Which Bible character does not have their prayers answered while they work for God?

 

[Studyman]

I completely agree with you that testing the spirit since it completes the truth. I propose that we renew ourselves and seek these gifts and prayers answered as instructed since it completes "every word" that God spoke.

I was responding to your statement "Is Christianity being established solely on the basis of theological research?" and your use of Paul's words to the Body of Christ regarding prophesy. “And if a revelation comes to someone who is seated, the first speaker should stop. For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged.”

You didn't answer the question I asked. Why did you change the subject?

Isn't it also true that incomplete or partial truth is not all truth? Because we know that deceiving oneself (about truth) is more lethal than anything else, and it is Satan's weapon. Effective lies/deceit are truth misdirection, or partly truth and partial falsehoods.

Deceiving oneself is dangerous to be true. I find it manifests itself most often in the statements "I am not" or "I did not", etc. And Jesus did say that we are to first "Remove the Beam" in our own eye, which of course is this self-deception.

But Jesus was more worried for His Disciples being deceived by others, specifically "MANY" who come in HIS name. That is why I asked the question about your statement regarding "Christianity" and their Gifts of Prophesy.

And I asked because I too, believe God's Truth is important and I understand "that no lie is of the truth".

So what about the question I asked? Will you answer it?

We know that Jesus says, "Not all who call me Lord, Lord" (Matthew 7:21-23), followed by "Therefore, everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them is like a wise man who built his house on the rock."

No, Jesus didn't say "whoever hears My sayings and "acts" on them". To ignore is an "act". To reject is an "act". To change or amend His Sayings is an "act". Since we are speaking in part, of "Truth", and it is clear that Jesus' intent in His Words in Matt. 7 was to promote hearing and then "DOING" what we hear, let's not be deceived by "partial truths or miss-direction" found in new age translations.

Jesus said "whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them". And HE doesn't "DO" His Saying for you. Another part of my reply that you deflected from.

Since it is "truth" that we are obligated by the Christ "of the Bible" to "DO" things to secure our Salvation, why is it so hard for "many" on this forum to even discuss what those things are?

God's words mention seeking these gifts and prayers answered in order to wage spiritual battles against deceitful spirits. They are not physical beings, but rather spiritual beings.

Yes, spiritual beings who inspire "MEN" to come in Christ's Name to deceive. In His Time, the religions of the spirit of this world were promoted by men who came in HIS Father's Name. They converted "many" to this world's religions and turned them away from being "Doers" of God's instruction, to becoming hearers only. So to say we battle unseen spirits and not physical beings is only a "partial" truth, or no truth at all. Jesus was not murdered by spiritual beings, but by physical beings. Stephen was stoned to death by flesh and blood men. Paul was deceived by Physical Beings. God's People were led astray by religious physical "Men".

Paul taught the same exact "Truth".

Col. 2: 8 Beware lest "any man" spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition "of men", after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

So we are to "test the spirits" which motivate and inspire "men", because it is the "MEN" who Jesus said to "Take heed" we are not deceived by.

That is why I asked my question regarding your statement about "Christianity". Because the "Truth" is important.

God's armor contains the truth, and the truth informed us about these. The armor is incomplete without them. Which Bible character does not have their prayers answered while they work for God?

For starters, those men in Matt. 7 who claimed their whole lives that they "worked for God", but didn't "Put on" His Armor.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

No doubt they believed God answered their prayers, just as the Pharisees believed God also answered theirs.

These are all truths Cornelius8L that I hope we can discuss and discern. They are uncomfortable truths, as there is a cost to accepting them, according to the Jesus of the Bible. I hope to spark in you a desire to consider the scriptures posted, and I hope you will open scriptures and look into it.

The Holy Scriptures are not just another "Theology" in my view.

Thanks for the discussion.

 

[sparow]

The Gospel is the good news of the Life, Death, and Resurrection of Jesus, faith in which leads to forgiveness of sin, and thus salvation. The Gospel cannot be contained in the Old Covenant because Jesus had not yet become incarnate, thus He could not have died to pay the penalty for mankind's sin.

The Law and the Prophets point toward Christ; they lead us to Him, but they do not contain salvation in themselves. Salvation is ONLY in faith in Jesus. Since He had not yet been born, lived sinlessly, died as a sacrifice, and been raised by the power of the Holy Spirit showing His power over sin and death, there is no salvation in the Old Covenant. It is NOT the good news, but it does say that the good news is coming.

I find your response interesting, but your interest is in only a small part of the whole; every thing God has done is good news for the saved, bad news for the lost. Creation was good news; Adam and Eve were good news; the flood was good news; the Egyptian Passover was good news for Israel; the Babylonian captivity was good news, because it came with a promise.


Whether the news is good or bad is subjective. The news of the life, death and resurrection of Jesus is not good for those who reject Him.


We have the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John; but who called them Gospels. These documents are more accurately, the accounts of the confirming the old covenant, (in part, cut off in the middle of doing so). To say there is no salvation in the OT is nonsense; Jesus came to the lost sheep, but there were sheep who were not lost, who had not broken the covenant or who had repented. Jesus living and shedding His blood is OT prophesy, and I am sure Daniel has the Messiah cut off and reappearing at the end of the age. The Sadducees sect did not believe in salvation; but the Pharisees did.

 

[Guojing]

Isn't thinking preferable to ignoring it? And, as Prophet Malachi has said, the 400-year silence appears to be the consequence of disobedience and those who were oblivious of their actions (Malachi chapter 1,2,3).So it's not that they aren't thinking about it; it's just that they aren't thinking about it and acting on it correctly.

You can of course think about it, but my point is, it does not rule out the possibility that, in this period of grace, God is simply silent.

That is perhaps why 1 Corinthians 13:13 states, "And now abideth faith hope and charity"

 

[Cornelius8L]

I was responding to your statement "Is Christianity being established solely on the basis of theological research?" and your use of Paul's words to the Body of Christ regarding prophesy. “And if a revelation comes to someone who is seated, the first speaker should stop. For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged.”

You didn't answer the question I asked. Why did you change the subject?


Deceiving oneself is dangerous to be true. I find it manifests itself most often in the statements "I am not" or "I did not", etc. And Jesus did say that we are to first "Remove the Beam" in our own eye, which of course is this self-deception.

But Jesus was more worried for His Disciples being deceived by others, specifically "MANY" who come in HIS name. That is why I asked the question about your statement regarding "Christianity" and their Gifts of Prophesy.

And I asked because I too, believe God's Truth is important and I understand "that no lie is of the truth".

So what about the question I asked? Will you answer it?

My previous comment answered your question that we must also test the spirit, but first you must have your prayers answered by God or have the gift, otherwise how do you know if you are using the correct truth to differentiate them if God has not approved you? “Not many of you should become teachers,” (Jam 3:1) and “some have strayed from these ways and turned aside to empty talk. They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not understand what they are saying or that which they so confidently assert.” (1 Tim 1:6-7)

No, Jesus didn't say "whoever hears My sayings and "acts" on them". To ignore is an "act". To reject is an "act". To change or amend His Sayings is an "act". Since we are speaking in part, of "Truth", and it is clear that Jesus' intent in His Words in Matt. 7 was to promote hearing and then "DOING" what we hear, let's not be deceived by "partial truths or miss-direction" found in new age translations.

Jesus said "whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them". And HE doesn't "DO" His Saying for you. Another part of my reply that you deflected from.

Since it is "truth" that we are obligated by the Christ "of the Bible" to "DO" things to secure our Salvation, why is it so hard for "many" on this forum to even discuss what those things are?

You don't seem to get my message. I'm saying that if you followed God correctly, God will passively approve of you, and God will hear your prayer because the prayer of the righteous is effective. If you teach so much and God never hears you, you are talking empty words. “Because he loves Me, I will deliver him; because he knows My name, I will protect him. When he calls out to Me, I will answer him; I will be with him in trouble. I will deliver him and honor him.” (Psa 91:15)

Yes, spiritual beings who inspire "MEN" to come in Christ's Name to deceive. In His Time, the religions of the spirit of this world were promoted by men who came in HIS Father's Name. They converted "many" to this world's religions and turned them away from being "Doers" of God's instruction, to becoming hearers only. So to say we battle unseen spirits and not physical beings is only a "partial" truth, or no truth at all. Jesus was not murdered by spiritual beings, but by physical beings. Stephen was stoned to death by flesh and blood men. Paul was deceived by Physical Beings. God's People were led astray by religious physical "Men".

Paul taught the same exact "Truth".

Col. 2: 8 Beware lest "any man" spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition "of men", after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

So we are to "test the spirits" which motivate and inspire "men", because it is the "MEN" who Jesus said to "Take heed" we are not deceived by.

That is why I asked my question regarding your statement about "Christianity". Because the "Truth" is important.

When HS is present in a man, he becomes a spiritual man. “The spiritual man judges all things, but he himself is not subject to anyone’s judgment.” (1 Cor 2:15) When Jesus referred to Peter as Satan, He was referring him to a spiritual being as a whole rather than a physical man. Do you have the mind of Christ?

For starters, those men in Matt. 7 who claimed their whole lives that they "worked for God", but didn't "Put on" His Armor.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

No doubt they believed God answered their prayers, just as the Pharisees believed God also answered theirs.

These are all truths @Cornelius8L that I hope we can discuss and discern. They are uncomfortable truths, as there is a cost to accepting them, according to the Jesus of the Bible. I hope to spark in you a desire to consider the scriptures posted, and I hope you will open scriptures and look into it.

The Holy Scriptures are not just another "Theology" in my view.

Thanks for the discussion.

The amusing side is that you assume you understand the scripture correctly, but what you say is nothing more than idle talk, as the Bible describes. (I hope you studied the Bible while you were in your prime, like Jesus in His 30s, and not only when you retired.) Still, the question is whether God is truly with you, as Paul said. “My message and my preaching were not with persuasive words of wisdom, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, so that your faith would not rest on men’s wisdom, but on God’s power. (1 Cor 2:4)”

Thanks for taking part in this conversation.

 

[Cornelius8L]

You can of course think about it, but my point is, it does not rule out the possibility that, in this period of grace, God is simply silent.

That is perhaps why 1 Corinthians 13:13 states, "And now abideth faith hope and charity"

If Paul meant in 1 Cor 13:13 that God will be silent from there on, there will be no Book of Revelation, and all the gifts of prophecy mentioned in the NT will be false. No?

 

[Guojing]

If Paul meant in 1 Cor 13:13 that God will be silent from there on, there will be no Book of Revelation, and all the gifts of prophecy mentioned in the NT will be false. No?

Firstly, Revelation was not the final book of scripture written.

Secondly, Paul is saying in 1 Cor 13, there will come a time in the future, where these 3 gifts will fail and where we will have rely only on faith hope and charity.

 

[Cornelius8L]

Firstly, Revelation was not the final book of scripture written.

Secondly, Paul is saying in 1 Cor 13, there will come a time in the future, where these 3 gifts will fail and where we will have rely only on faith hope and charity.

I see. That's how you interpreted 1 Cor 13:13, but the next verse is 1 Cor 14:1 “Earnestly pursue love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy.”

Even if we disregard 1 Cor 14:1 and discuss faith among the three, “For truly I tell you, if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.” (Matt 17:20) - It does not imply silence here, and God will still respond.

(Yeah, I misunderstood your timeline part, so we can skip the Revelation part.)

 

[Guojing]

Even if we disregard 1 Cor 14:1 and discuss faith among the three, “For truly I tell you, if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.” (Matt 17:20) - It does not imply silence here, and God will still respond.

And your point about faith is?

And that verse cannot be God will respond all the time, or even often.

 

[Cornelius8L]

And your point about faith is?

And that verse cannot be God will respond all the time, or even often.

"And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who approaches Him must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him." Heb 11:6

I believe God will respond, and He did, just as the scriptures testify, proving that He is a living God. When He does not, I will reflect on how I have become misaligned with Him and change/renew my perspective/understanding. "And when you do ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may squander it on your pleasures. (Jam 4:3)" "Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mark 11:24) "And this is the confidence that we have before Him: If we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. (1 John 5:14)"

Is this not the same faith you've known?

 

[Studyman]

My previous comment answered your question that we must also test the spirit, but first you must have your prayers answered by God or have the gift, otherwise how do you know if you are using the correct truth to differentiate them if God has not approved you?

No, you didn't answer. Here, let me pose the question again. You said "Is Christianity being established solely on the basis of theological research?"

I responded with a question regarding all the differing religious sects and franchises who claim the umbrella of "Christianity".

"So then, are you teaching that "ALL" the differing religious sects of this world who call Jesus Lord, Lord should be listened to?

So when the elder of the LDS church prophesies, we all should listen and consider that his words are inspired by the Spirit of Christ. But when the JW Elder has a revelation, the LDS preacher should stop, so we can all listen and consider the Prophesies of the Jehovah Witness. Then if a Calvinist is sitting and claims to have a revelation from God, the others should stop and all listen and consider his prophesies until the Pope says he receives a revelation for God, and then stop and listen to him until the SDA elder claims to have a prophesy etc. etc.?"

You have yet to answer.

“Not many of you should become teachers,” (Jam 3:1) and “some have strayed from these ways and turned aside to empty talk. They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not understand what they are saying or that which they so confidently assert.” (1 Tim 1:6-7)

You are teaching others about the Bible. I was questioning your teaching in order to understand it.

You don't seem to get my message. I'm saying that if you followed God correctly, God will passively approve of you, and God will hear your prayer because the prayer of the righteous is effective.

Yes, and EVERY religion I posted about, believe and teach others they follow God correctly. That is why I asked you the question you didn't answer.

If you teach so much and God never hears you, you are talking empty words.

Who is it, according to the Christ of the Bible, that God/Christ doesn't know and therefore doesn't hear? Are they, according to Paul, those who "Yield themselves" servants to obey God to become "Servants of God's Righteousness"? Or are they those who "teach in Jesus' Name" but "work iniquity"?

“Because he loves Me, I will deliver him; because he knows My name, I will protect him. When he calls out to Me, I will answer him; I will be with him in trouble. I will deliver him and honor him.” (Psa 91:15)

Again, who is the "me"? Men who call Jesus Lord, Lord? Those who prophesy in His Name? Or those who yield themselves servants to Obey God"? This is why I asked the first question that you didn't answer.

When HS is present in a man, he becomes a spiritual man. “The spiritual man judges all things, but he himself is not subject to anyone’s judgment.” (1 Cor 2:15)

1 Cor. 2: 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

Who receives the Spirit of God? All those who "Prophesy in His Name" that I addressed in my question to you?

Do you believe Peter was inspired by the spirit of God when HE said;

Acts 5: 32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

When Jesus referred to Peter as Satan, He was referring him to a spiritual being as a whole rather than a physical man.

You are doing a lot of teaching.

Do you have the mind of Christ?

It depends on what Christ you are speaking about. If you are speaking of the christ created by man in the likeness of a handsome long-haired man, then no, I have not "Put On" the mind of this christ.

The amusing side is that you assume you understand the scripture correctly, but what you say is nothing more than idle talk, as the Bible describes.

That is what the Catholic preachers say about the SDA preachers and Calvinist Preachers. Also what the Baptists preachers say about JW's. So your preaching that because I question your religious philosophy or don't agree with it, I don't understand scriptures, is expected and practiced almost universally by every religion on this planet "who come in Christ's name".

I posted the Words of the Christ of the Bible for review and discussion, it is you who ignored them, choosing instead to "talk" about your own words. In my understanding of God and His son, their Words are not just "idle talk".

(I hope you studied the Bible while you were in your prime, like Jesus in His 30s, and not only when you retired.)

It is because I studied the Bible apart from the teaching of the "many" religious sects and franchises "who call Jesus Lord, Lord", that I question your teaching in the first place.

Still, the question is whether God is truly with you, as Paul said. “My message and my preaching were not with persuasive words of wisdom, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, so that your faith would not rest on men’s wisdom, but on God’s power. (1 Cor 2:4)”

Yes, that is the question. In fact, the Spirit of Christ, who say this question coming, gave us the answer to this very Question in His Inspired Word. "How do I know I am in God and HE in me"?

1 John 2: 3 And hereby we do know that we know him,

So here it is, the answer God gave the question you posed. Here is how we know that we know Him and HE knows us.

"if we keep his commandments."

Now all we need is to believe what is written. In the Bible, this is called "Faith".

Thanks for taking part in this conversation.

I look forward to your answer to the questions I posed.

 

[Guojing]

"And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who approaches Him must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him." Heb 11:6

I believe God will respond, and He did, just as the scriptures testify, proving that He is a living God. When He does not, I will reflect on how I have become misaligned with Him and change/renew my perspective/understanding. "And when you do ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may squander it on your pleasures. (Jam 4:3)" "Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mark 11:24) "And this is the confidence that we have before Him: If we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. (1 John 5:14)"

Is this not the same faith you've known?

What exactly do you mean by "God will respond"?

In what ways?

For example, if I pray according to Philippians 4:6-7, and I commit, say my worries about my physical illness to God.

Even if that illness continues, say the case of covid-19, if I feel peace in my heart, following vs 7, can I count that as a response from God?

 

[HIM]

Allow me to digress for a bit, but I had a thought.

Is Christianity being established solely on the basis of theological research?

“For the kingdom of God is not a matter of talk but of power.” (1 Cor 4:20, 2 Tim 3:7)​

​

“And if a revelation comes to someone who is seated, the first speaker should stop. For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged.” (1 Cor 14:30-31, 12:31, 14:1)​

​

“For it is not the one who commends himself who is approved, but the one whom the Lord commends.” (2 Cor 10:18, Rom 8:30)​

The leaders of the Apostolic church have spiritual gifts because God was with them, and they taught the believers to seek these gifts since they were direct indicators of God's approval. (Acts 5:16, 21:10-11; Mark 16:17). A "religion" must have a living God who demonstrates His existence; it is not intended to be a society of people who rely solely on the records of scripture passed down from generation to generation. Buddhism, Hinduism, and other religions each have their own set of scriptures. The Most High has done numerous things in the Bible and is never completely silent. If the prayer of a righteous man has immense power to prevail, Prophet Elijah was a man like us, he prayed earnestly that it would not rain, and it did not rain on the land for three and a half years (Jam 5:17), were our prayers as effective before we began to contend with others about the truth? If, after all of our research, we find that there is no power/gift in us as taught in the Bible, we have already verified that we are on the wrong track because the scripture expresses these. What I mean is, don't you think Satan tricked us all into misinterpreting our religion and reducing it to a mere body of information with no power, and yet we're still correcting one another about the "text"?

Us in Him, He in us that the world might believe.
We reduced righteous by, out of faith to we are going to sin regardless but we have forgiveness in Christ and are covered by His righteousness.

 

[Cornelius8L]

No, you didn't answer. Here, let me pose the question again. You said "Is Christianity being established solely on the basis of theological research?"

I responded with a question regarding all the differing religious sects and franchises who claim the umbrella of "Christianity".

"So then, are you teaching that "ALL" the differing religious sects of this world who call Jesus Lord, Lord should be listened to?

So when the elder of the LDS church prophesies, we all should listen and consider that his words are inspired by the Spirit of Christ. But when the JW Elder has a revelation, the LDS preacher should stop, so we can all listen and consider the Prophesies of the Jehovah Witness. Then if a Calvinist is sitting and claims to have a revelation from God, the others should stop and all listen and consider his prophesies until the Pope says he receives a revelation for God, and then stop and listen to him until the SDA elder claims to have a prophesy etc. etc.?"

You have yet to answer.



You are teaching others about the Bible. I was questioning your teaching in order to understand it.




Yes, and EVERY religion I posted about, believe and teach others they follow God correctly. That is why I asked you the question you didn't answer.



Who is it, according to the Christ of the Bible, that God/Christ doesn't know and therefore doesn't hear? Are they, according to Paul, those who "Yield themselves" servants to obey God to become "Servants of God's Righteousness"? Or are they those who "teach in Jesus' Name" but "work iniquity"?




Again, who is the "me"? Men who call Jesus Lord, Lord? Those who prophesy in His Name? Or those who yield themselves servants to Obey God"? This is why I asked the first question that you didn't answer.




1 Cor. 2: 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

Who receives the Spirit of God? All those who "Prophesy in His Name" that I addressed in my question to you?

Do you believe Peter was inspired by the spirit of God when HE said;

Acts 5: 32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.



You are doing a lot of teaching.



It depends on what Christ you are speaking about. If you are speaking of the christ created by man in the likeness of a handsome long-haired man, then no, I have not "Put On" the mind of this christ.



That is what the Catholic preachers say about the SDA preachers and Calvinist Preachers. Also what the Baptists preachers say about JW's. So your preaching that because I question your religious philosophy or don't agree with it, I don't understand scriptures, is expected and practiced almost universally by every religion on this planet "who come in Christ's name".

I posted the Words of the Christ of the Bible for review and discussion, it is you who ignored them, choosing instead to "talk" about your own words. In my understanding of God and His son, their Words are not just "idle talk".



It is because I studied the Bible apart from the teaching of the "many" religious sects and franchises "who call Jesus Lord, Lord", that I question your teaching in the first place.



Yes, that is the question. In fact, the Spirit of Christ, who say this question coming, gave us the answer to this very Question in His Inspired Word. "How do I know I am in God and HE in me"?

1 John 2: 3 And hereby we do know that we know him,

So here it is, the answer God gave the question you posed. Here is how we know that we know Him and HE knows us.

"if we keep his commandments."

Now all we need is to believe what is written. In the Bible, this is called "Faith".



I look forward to your answer to the questions I posed.

Prophet Jeremiah did consider what the other prophets had to say while he was with the false prophets in Jer 28:1–16. But it was only until God responded to him that he was able to distinguish between true and false prophets.

But again, who are you to say that they were wrong back then when Apostle Paul said, "For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when the perfect comes, the partial passes away.” (1 Cor 13:10)

Despite Paul's instruction to test for God's approval, you don't appear to believe. “Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Can’t you see for yourselves that Jesus Christ is in you—unless you actually fail the test?” (2 Cor 13:5)

While self-deception and faith appear to be similar on the surface, their results set them apart. Paul said that the servants of God have a practical relationship with a living God, not just abstract ideas- that is not “Faith”.

 

[Cornelius8L]

What exactly do you mean by "God will respond"?

In what ways?

For example, if I pray according to Philippians 4:6-7, and I commit, say my worries about my physical illness to God.

Even if that illness continues, say the case of covid-19, if I feel peace in my heart, following vs 7, can I count that as a response from God?

The scripture says God responds in a variety of ways. He will respond even if He rejects our requests, as Paul stated. “Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me, But He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My power is perfected in weakness.”” (2 Cor 12:9)

If I may share one of my many personal experiences: 2 months before the Pandemic, I worked for a company that offered work-from-home services, but I had a strong desire to switch employers and asked for God's assistance in making that decision as well as for a sign. 2 days later, my colleague who sat next to me mentioned having a strange dream about me. In the dream, I told her, "I will continue to work for this company since I have researched all others and they would have a stressful working environment. So, I'll continue to stay here, a place to chill and do nothing." The thing is, I never told her about my intention to change jobs, but my prayer to God includes "a place to chill and do nothing." I believed the sign, and 2 months later, we know lockdown happened and many companies suffered, yet my working company profits without my team doing much and chill.

We see that living God will not remain silent. “Surely the arm of the LORD is not too short to save, nor His ear too dull to hear. But your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God, and your sins have hidden his face from you so that he does not hear.” (Isa 59:1-2) If God is silent, we should be worried and examine ourselves.

Philippians 4:6-7, in my opinion, do not say that God will remain silent. According to the Bible, faith is believing in a living God who will respond. Jesus says, “I tell you, He will promptly carry out justice on their behalf. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on earth?" (Luke 18:8) Jesus reinforced Isa 59:1-2 that He disregards those who lack faith.

“For God speaks in one way and in another, yet no one notices. In a dream, in a vision in the night, when deep sleep falls upon men as they slumber on their beds, He opens their ears and terrifies them with warnings,” (Job 33:14-16)

 

[Studyman]

Prophet Jeremiah did consider what the other prophets had to say while he was with the false prophets in Jer 28:1–16. But it was only until God responded to him that he was able to distinguish between true and false prophets.

How does that answer my question?

15 Then said the prophet Jeremiah unto Hananiah the prophet, Hear now, Hananiah; The LORD hath not sent thee; but thou makest this people to trust in a lie.

But again, who are you to say that they were wrong back then when Apostle Paul said, "For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when the perfect comes, the partial passes away.” (1 Cor 13:10)

Again, who is the "WE" here? Are they all the Preachers from Every religious sect of this world who calls Jesus Lord, Lord? Or the "Servants of God's Righteousness" that the New Man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. becomes?

Despite Paul's instruction to test for God's approval, you don't appear to believe. “Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves.

So how do I know if I know God or not? I posted the Test given by the Spirit of Christ Himself, and you didn't even acknowledge it. Why?

So lets examine ourselves then.

Did the Jesus of the Bible create an image of His God in the Likeness of some long-haired handsome man? NO! That would be a Sin against God who said;

"Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:"

Does this world's religions create and promote an image of their God in the Likeness of man? There is no question that they do.

Did the Jesus of the Bible create HIS Own Sabbath? NO! Because that would be a SIN against God who said;

Duet 4: 1 Now therefore hearken, O Israel, unto the statutes and unto the judgments, which I teach you, for to do them, that ye may live, and go in and possess the land which the LORD God of your fathers giveth you. 2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Does this worlds religions create their own Sabbath, or diminish God's sabbath? There is no question that they do.

Did the Jesus of the Bible walk in manmade religious high days of the world God placed HIM in? NO! Because that would be a Sin against God.

Duet. 12: 30 Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise. 31 Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods. 32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

Do the religions of this world, who come in Christ's Name, promote manmade high days? There is no question that they do. They reject God's Feasts, so that they can preserve and promote their own religious high days.

So then, shall I SIN because it is popular with this world's religions? Paul answers;

Rom. 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

I once adopted the Traditions, Sabbaths and high days and religious philosophies created by this world's religions as did my fathers, and theirs before them. But I "examined myself" and found that I myself, "Full well ye rejected the commandment of God, that I may keep my own adopted tradition." And believing in the Words of the Christ of the Bible, "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." I left this world's religions and followed "Way of the Lord" as taught and walked in by Paul and the Christ of the Bible.

17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. (God's Righteousness, not my own, or this worlds.)

Can’t you see for yourselves that Jesus Christ is in you—unless you actually fail the test?” (2 Cor 13:5)

5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

It is because I examine myself, that I don't walk in the traditions and doctrines of the religions of this world God placed me in. If the Christ is in me, why would I cause Him to serve Sin by this world's religious traditions?

This same Christ, the Holy One of Israel, explains this to me, "where HE was before" becoming a man, about others who called Him their God, but walked in the ways of the world.

Is. 43: 24 Thou hast bought me no sweet cane with money, neither hast thou filled me with the fat of thy sacrifices: but thou hast made me to serve with thy sins, thou hast wearied me with thine iniquities. 25 I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins. 26 Put me in remembrance: let us plead together: declare thou, that thou mayest be justified. 27 Thy first father hath sinned, and thy teachers have transgressed against me.

It is this Christ that I believe in.

2 Pet. 3: 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. 14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

While self-deception and faith appear to be similar on the surface, their results set them apart. Paul said that the servants of God have a practical relationship with a living God, not just abstract ideas- that is not “Faith”.

Your preaching notwithstanding, Jesus was most concerned with the influence of the religions of this world. And disobedience to God is not Faith in God.

If a man "yields themselves" servants to obey the religious doctrines and traditions of this world's "many" religious sects and businesses then they will "Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.". The man that does this is not "Walking, even as Jesus walked".

 

[Guojing]

Philippians 4:6-7, in my opinion, do not say that God will remain silent.

So your answer to my question is No?

Even if that illness continues, say the case of covid-19, if I feel peace in my heart, following vs 7, can I count that as a response from God?