Genesis 6:1-4, Sons of God, Giants in the earth, (Nephilim) are not angles who had relations with daughters of men!

[sawdust]

I had a write up on another Christian forum on the soul, spirit, and body that I cannot find. In that write up, I explained how all three had appeared to have a mind and emotions to them (using lots of Scripture). So yes. I am aware of verses that attach emotions to our spirit.

I see the soul as the head (or main mind, will, and emotions) that makes the ultimate decisions for the spiritual body, and the physical body (even though both the spirit, and the body appear to have minds and emotions of their own). This makes sense because we are created in the image of God who is triune. This also explains why believers can battle within themselves in their walk with the LORD.

The only write up I did find (Which goes more into the discussion of the soul) is here:

What is the soul?

What is the soul? The soul is one's mind, will, and emotions. The Mind Being a Part of the Soul: The soul is of three parts—the mind, the will, and the emotion. This is clearly and definitely proved by the Word of God. Proverbs 2:10 gives us the spiritual ground to prove that the mind is a...

www.christianforums.com

I hope it helps.

May God bless you.

In this instance your opinion doesn't help, as you seemed to be implying in the post I quoted, in order for God to have a mind, will and emotions, He had to have a soul. Yet it seems, according to your later post, He does not have to have a soul. Ergo, your insistence that God the Father had to have a soul is false. God is a Spirit just as the scripture declares and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth. John 4:24

You then go on to talk about us as spirit, soul and body as if our nature declares God's nature. And no, it doesn't make sense what you say.

The body does not have the capacity to think for itself, it is governed by autonomous, reflexive and instinctive systems. It is the sin nature in the body that tempts the mind. This is why there is a war within. It is not a battle within the soul but a battle between the soul and the flesh. The sin nature acts as our own personal internal serpent. This is why the scripture says the mind set on the flesh is against God and doesn't say the mind itself is against God.

Romans 8:5-8
5 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. 7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.

I also notice in one of your earlier posts (#214) you are still declaring you think we are saying the Father "takes possession of Jesus' soul" even though twice you have been corrected on this. This is now the third time you are being corrected. How can we have any confidence in your willingness to listen to the thoughts of others when you have to be told the same thing three times?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

In this instance your opinion doesn't help, as you seemed to be implying in the post I quoted, in order for God to have a mind, will and emotions, He had to have a soul. Yet it seems, according to your later post, He does not have to have a soul. Ergo, your insistence that God the Father had to have a soul is false. God is a Spirit just as the scripture declares and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth. John 4:24

You then go on to talk about us as spirit, soul and body as if our nature declares God's nature. And no, it doesn't make sense what you say.

The body does not have the capacity to think for itself, it is governed by autonomous, reflexive and instinctive systems. It is the sin nature in the body that tempts the mind. This is why there is a war within. It is not a battle within the soul but a battle between the soul and the flesh. The sin nature acts as our own personal internal serpent. This is why the scripture says the mind set on the flesh is against God and doesn't say the mind itself is against God.

Romans 8:5-8
5 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. 7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.

I also notice in one of your earlier posts (#214) you are still declaring you think we are saying the Father "takes possession of Jesus' soul" even though twice you have been corrected on this. This is now the third time you are being corrected. How can we have any confidence in your willingness to listen to the thoughts of others when you have to be told the same thing three times?

I have moved this discussion here so as not to continue to derail biblelesson’s thread topic.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@biblelesson

My apologies for the derailed discussion on your thread topic.

May God’s grace and love always shine upon you.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

These two verses weigh in heavily for the Nephilim viewpoint.

2 Peter 2:4
“For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;”

This above verse by Peter would not make any sense unless you were a Preterist who believes Satan and his minions are bound. By the wording used in 2 Peter 2:4, it is saying that there are angels right now who are in hell and being reserved currently in chains of darkness until the judgment on account of that they sinned. This cannot be all of the fallen angels because they are still influencing and tormenting mankind today.

Jude 1:6
”And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.”

This sounds like a select group of angels who left Heaven (i.e., left their own habitation) and are currently being reserved right now in everlasting chains of darkness until the Judgment. This cannot be Satan and his minions who first rebelled against God. This has to be another group of angels.

This fits with the Nephilim viewpoint and explains all the other verses involving them, as well.

 

[GenemZ]

These two verses weigh in heavily for the Nephilim viewpoint.

2 Peter 2:4
“For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;”

This above verse by Peter would not make any sense unless you were a Preterist who believes Satan and his minions are bound. By the wording used in 2 Peter 2:4, it is saying that there are angels right now who are in hell and being reserved currently in chains of darkness until the judgment on account of that they sinned. This cannot be all of the fallen angels because they are still influencing and tormenting mankind today.

Jude 1:6
”And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.”

This sounds like a select group of angels who left Heaven (i.e., left their own habitation) and are currently being reserved right now in everlasting chains of darkness until the Judgment. This cannot be Satan and his minions who first rebelled against God. This has to be another group of angels.

This fits with the Nephilim viewpoint and explains all the other verses involving them, as well.

That requires insight to understand...

For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. ​

He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. After being made alive, he went ​

and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— to those who were disobedient long ago ​

when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few ​

people, eight in all, were saved through water." 1 Pet 3:18-20​

That explains why it says God has locked up those spirits who were disobedient on earth during the days of Noah.

For those "spirits' were not the angels who disobeyed.
Here is why I say that...

The Nephilim had hybrid bodies. They were not fully human physically.

Therefore? Jesus who would come in a human body could not die for their sins.
They would need to have fully human bodies to be a match.

Be that as it may....

God had to provide a means for their salvation like all fallen angels were offered and refused .

So instead of giving the Nephilim a human soul which would require the atonement of the Cross?
An atonement that Jesus being a human body could not die for their hybrid flesh?
God gave them a spirit as an angel has a spirit.
That way, they could be offered salvation by repentance as the angels were offered.

And, since the Nephilim were born both spiritual yet fallen?
Being spiritual by nature?
They were not required to be born again. They were spiritual to begin with!
They were already being spiritual by nature, able to know the things of God.

What ever God required of them to remain with God? They disobeyed.

After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits—
to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah
while the ark was being built. "

That is why we find prisons for the angels who rebelled during the Days of Noah, and for the "spirits" were disobedient during those same years.


by God's grace.....

 

[Bible Highlighter]

That requires insight to understand...

For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. ​

He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. After being made alive, he went ​

and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— to those who were disobedient long ago ​

when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few ​

people, eight in all, were saved through water." 1 Pet 3:18-20​

That explains why it says God has locked up those spirits who were disobedient on earth during the days of Noah.

For those "spirits' were not the angels who disobeyed.
Here is why I say that...

No. 2 Peter 2:4 and Jude 1:6 both refer to angels that sinned. It actually uses the word “angels” in both of these verses.
This would be a reference to the sons of God who came in unto the daughters of men according to Genesis 6:4. These sons of God (angels) who mated with the daughters of men created the offspring known as the Nephilim or Giants (KJB).

As for 1 Peter 3:19-20 that says,
19 “By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient,…”

Well, this is in reference to wicked humans and not angels. Christ was preaching an important message to unbelieving wicked men in Hades who perished in the global flood.

The Nephilim had hybrid bodies. They were not fully human physically.

I agree.

Therefore? Jesus who would come in a human body could not die for their sins.
They would need to have fully human bodies to be a match.

I agree.

Be that as it may....

God had to provide a means for their salvation like all fallen angels were offered and refused .

So instead of giving the Nephilim a human soul which would require the atonement of the Cross?
An atonement that Jesus being a human body could not die for their hybrid flesh?
God gave them a spirit as an angel has a spirit.
That way, they could be offered salvation by repentance as the angels were offered.

No. That’s crazy. Jesus did not preach to the Nephilim in Hades so that they could be saved.
Jesus was just declaring a message to the wicked men who perished during the global flood.

No angels are offered repentance.
No Nephilim were offered repentance.
This sounds more like a fanciful novel than Scripture.
Nowhere in the text of 1 Peter 3 even suggest remotely that these were Nephilim.

 

[GenemZ]

No. 2 Peter 2:4 and Jude 1:6 both refer to angels that sinned. It actually uses the word “angels” in both of these verses.
This would be a reference to the sons of God who came in unto the daughters of men according to Genesis 6:4. These sons of God (angels) who mated with the daughters of men created the offspring known as the Nephilim or Giants (KJB).

As for 1 Peter 3:19-20 that says,
19 “By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient,…”

Well, this is in reference to wicked humans and not angels. Christ was preaching an important message to unbelieving wicked men in Hades who perished in the global flood.



I agree.



I agree.


No. That’s crazy. Jesus did not preach to the Nephilim in Hades so that they could be saved.
Jesus was just declaring a message to the wicked men who perished during the global flood.

No angels are offered repentance.
No Nephilim were offered repentance.
This sounds more like a fanciful novel than Scripture.
Nowhere in the text of 1 Peter 3 even suggest remotely that these were Nephilim.

There was no reason to switch to using "spirits" when we have been shown the writers knew how to write "angels."
Its there for a reason for using 'spirits'. One I had often wondered about..

So, what happened to the Nephilim as far as judgement and possible redemption? God offered none?
God gave them spirits, not souls as we have with normal men in human bodies.

How could Jesus, having a human body, die for their mutant bodies? No possibility for redemption?
Jesus could not be their perfect substitute like He was for all mankind. They had a body unlike his own.

Maybe you will understand this problem someday.

It requires not the conventional answers you gave that do not solve the problem.

Others will understand in the mean time.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

There was no reason to switch to using "spirits" when we have been shown the writers knew how to write "angels."

I was referring to 2 Peter 2:4, and Jude 1:6, and not 1 Peter 3:19-20.
While 2 Peter 2:4, and Jude 1:6 sounds like a prison, it does not say that it is one.
1 Peter 3:19-20 just says “spirits” and not “angels.”
1 Peter 3:19-20 does not hint that these spirits are Nephilim.

1 Peter 3:19-20 is referring to disobedient people during the global flood.
1 Peter 1:11 gives us a glimpse of what Jesus said to them. Jesus was most likely explaining what Noah said about Him.

Speaking of the prophets (Which would be Noah):

“Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.” (1 Peter 1:11).

So Jesus spoke through Noah the prophet and did signify His sufferings in His earthly life, and the glory that should follow.
Jesus would be telling these disobedient people at the time of the global flood that He told them already of what He accomplished for mankind involving mankind’s redemption.

Unfortunately, they missed the boat.

Its there for a reason for using 'spirits'. One I had often wondered about..

So, what happened to the Nephilim as far as judgement and possible redemption? God offered none?
God gave them spirits, not souls as we have with normal men in human bodies.

How could Jesus, having a human body, die for their mutant bodies? No possibility for redemption?
Jesus could not be their perfect substitute like He was for all mankind. They had a body unlike his own.

Maybe you will understand this problem someday.

It requires not the conventional answers you gave that do not solve the problem.

Others will understand in the mean time.

The Lord Jesus (GOD) cannot offer the Nephilim salvation because Jesus bore our sins in His body.

1 Peter 2:24
“Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.”

This was the whole point why Jesus came down into the flesh of a man. No Incarnation means… no salvation.

 

[sawdust]

1 Peter 3:19-20 just says “spirits” and not “angels.”

That was the whole point!

If these were angels why not call them angels as Peter did before when speaking of angels? Why turn around and now call them spirits?

 

[GenemZ]

That was the whole point!

If these were angels why not call them angels as Peter did before when speaking of angels? Why turn around and now call them spirits?

Obfuscation is all some desire to do.....

Others want to clarify.


grace and peace ...................

 

[Job 33:6]

On the origins of the Genesis 6 narrative:

 

[biblelesson]

I was referring to 2 Peter 2:4, and Jude 1:6, and not 1 Peter 3:19-20.
While 2 Peter 2:4, and Jude 1:6 sounds like a prison, it does not say that it is one.
1 Peter 3:19-20 just says “spirits” and not “angels.”
1 Peter 3:19-20 does not hint that these spirits are Nephilim.

1 Peter 3:19-20 is referring to disobedient people during the global flood.
1 Peter 1:11 gives us a glimpse of what Jesus said to them. Jesus was most likely explaining what Noah said about Him.

Speaking of the prophets (Which would be Noah):

“Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.” (1 Peter 1:11).

So Jesus spoke through Noah the prophet and did signify His sufferings in His earthly life, and the glory that should follow.
Jesus would be telling these disobedient people at the time of the global flood that He told them already of what He accomplished for mankind involving mankind’s redemption.

Unfortunately, they missed the boat.

I agree!

Did you ever consider how Romans 4:15 KJV relate to those who died in the flood. And why would Jesus need to preach to the “spirits,” 1 Peter 3:19 KJV. Also 1 Peter 3:18 KJV, says, “For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God.”

Those who died in the flood were unjust, but sin could not be inputted unto them because there was no law, Romans 5:13 KJV.


The “spirits” Christ preached to, 1 Peter 3:19 KJV, were those who died before the law. Jesus preached salvation to them because their sin could not be imputed unto them because there was no law. They could not have been condemned to hell; these people or “spirits” had to wait for Christ to redeem them.

Christ the just, went and preached to the unjust, who he died for, 1 Peter 3:18 KJV, to bring them to God. Those who died in the flood were forgiven in Christ.

 

[GenemZ]

I agree!

Did you ever consider how Romans 4:15 KJV relate to those who died in the flood. And why would Jesus need to preach to the “spirits,” 1 Peter 3:19 KJV. Also 1 Peter 3:18 KJV, says, “For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God.”

Those in Noah's day were preached to by God's man Noah! He was a preacher of righteousness. 2 Peter 2:5
For 120 years the Holy Spirit by means of Noah made it known to them! (Gen 6:3) They knew they were sinners!

Jesus went and preached to the spirits to let them know that Satan's attempt to stop the birth of the Messiah had failed.
That there hero "Lucifer" failed.

For the mutant people being born were half angel half man time before the flood. These if they took over could have prevented the promised seed of the woman (Gen 3:15) from coming true! Satan lied to the lusting angels he took note of when he saw them being tempted by the beautiful human women.

Keep in mind. The angels before Satan rebelled had thought very highly of Lucifer. After all? He won one third of the angels away from the Lord!
There were still some angels longing to gain back the angels they had loved before the rebellion.

Knowing this... Satan offered these angels a temptation.. A temptation like ..."You can have your cake and eat it too."
For the tempter encouraged them to take the women that Satan knew they craved to have.
He reasoned ...... "You can enjoy those women! And, we will be one big happy family once more after the promised seed is
prevented from happening because over time man will have become half human- half angel- mutations!"

The promised seed. Jesus had to be perfectly human. Not a hybrid.

Satan thought he was a super genius. Its his arrogance is what got him in trouble to begin with.
And, his plan for Noah's day was evil genius in his attempt to prevent the birth of the promised Messiah!

A Messiah that had been promised in Genesis 3:15.
Satan's plan unfolded with rebel angels producing a mutant race by means of the angels taking the human women.

And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”​

The Cross crushed Satan's head.

Satan's seed? For Satan became the head over all fallen depraved unbelievers.
All unbelievers reflect the nature of Satan and his angels.
They became figuratively his seed as a result of the fall.

And the agony of the Cross bruised Jesus's heel!



grace and peace .....................

 

[biblelesson]

Those in Noah's day were preached to by God's man Noah! He was a preacher of righteousness. 2 Peter 2:5
For 120 years the Holy Spirit by means of Noah made it known to them! (Gen 6:3) They knew they were sinners!

Yes, Noah was a preacher of righteousness, and yes the people were sinners, but their sin could not be imputed into them because there was no law, Romans 5:13 KJV.

In Genesis 6:3 KJV, “my spirit will not always strive with man” and “for they are flesh” tells you that God is talking about man’s lifespan shortened to 120 years.

Jesus went and preached to the spirits to let them know that Satan's attempt to stop the birth of the Messiah had failed.
That there hero "Lucifer" failed.

What scripture are you referring to that says this?
You are making things up to fit a false belief!

For the mutant people being born were half angel half man time before the flood. These if they took over could have prevented the promised seed of the woman (Gen 3:15) from coming true! Satan lied to the lusting angels he took note of when he saw them being tempted by the beautiful human women.

Keep in mind. The angels before Satan rebelled had thought very highly of Lucifer. After all? He won one third of the angels away from the Lord!
There were still some angels longing to gain back the angels they had loved before the rebellion.

Knowing this... Satan offered these angels a temptation.. A temptation like ..."You can have your cake and eat it too."
For the tempter encouraged them to take the women that Satan knew they craved to have.
He reasoned ...... "You can enjoy those women! And, we will be one big happy family once more after the promised seed is
prevented from happening because over time man will have become half human- half angel- mutations!"

There are no scriptures that support mutant people from angels and all of what you have said here?

You are misquoted Genesis 3:15 KJV. Anyway, children had not been born at this time
to populate the earth. God was speaking about Satan, not angels mating with women.

Plus the seed of Satan are unbelievers who crucified Christ! Remember when Jesus said to the Jewish leaders, “you are of your father the devil”

The promised seed. Jesus had to be perfectly human. Not a hybrid.

Satan thought he was a super genius. Its his arrogance is what got him in trouble to begin with.
And, his plan for Noah's day was evil genius in his attempt to prevent the birth of the promised Messiah!

A Messiah that had been promised in Genesis 3:15.
Satan's plan unfolded with rebel angels producing a mutant race by means of the angels taking the human women.

And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”
The Cross crushed Satan's head.

Satan's seed? For Satan became the head over all fallen depraved unbelievers.
All unbelievers reflect the nature of Satan and his angels.
They became figuratively his seed as a result of the fall.

And the agony of the Cross bruised Jesus's heel!

You have written your own narrative to explain something that the Bible don’t explain.

Where are the scriptures that back this up? And where are these mutant people today?

 

[biblelesson]

For 120 years the Holy Spirit by means of Noah made it known to them! (Gen 6:3) They knew they were sinners!

Genesis 6:3 KJV is in relation to the sin now in man because of Adam’s sin. Originally God would have not withdrawn His Spirit and man would have lived for ever because they would have had access to the tree of life, but after the sin, they could no longer live forever and was put out of the Garden of Eden, Genesis 3:22-23 KJV.

Therefore, God’s Spirit could no longer strive with man, and man could no longer live forever, thus God cut man’s lifespan to 120 years. You see how this makes sense! The scripture is clear.

 

[sawdust]

Therefore, God’s Spirit could no longer strive with man, and man could no longer live forever, thus God cut man’s lifespan to 120 years. You see how this makes sense! The scripture is clear.

That scripture is not saying God shortened man's life span for those born after the flood lived much longer (Gen.11). It is saying God would only give mankind 120 years to repent before sending the flood. Noah preached for those 120 years.

And the Romans verse is talking about not imputing sin on the basis of the Law. Adam could have sin imputed because he had one law to follow, don't eat. He broke it. Those living prior to the flood had knowledge of right and wrong and could be judged sinful on the basis of that but they could not be judged sinful on the basis of the Mosaic Law for that had not been given.

 

[GenemZ]

Yes, Noah was a preacher of righteousness, and yes the people were sinners, but their sin could not be imputed into them because there was no law, Romans 5:13 KJV.

They were told truths found in the Law by the Holy Spirit through Noah.

There was no Law, yet people like Abraham made animal sacrifices, too.

 

[GenemZ]

That scripture is not saying God shortened man's life span for those born after the flood lived much longer (Gen.11). It is saying God would only give mankind 120 years to repent before sending the flood. Noah preached for those 120 years.

And the Romans verse is talking about not imputing sin on the basis of the Law. Adam could have sin imputed because he had one law to follow, don't eat. He broke it. Those living prior to the flood had knowledge of right and wrong and could be judged sinful on the basis of that but they could not be judged sinful on the basis of the Mosaic Law for that had not been given.

Patience is a virtue.

 

[sawdust]

Patience is a virtue.

One the Lord and I are still working on.

 

[biblelesson]

That scripture is not saying God shortened man's life span for those born after the flood lived much longer (Gen.11). It is saying God would only give mankind 120 years to repent before sending the flood. Noah preached for those 120 years.

And the Romans verse is talking about not imputing sin on the basis of the Law. Adam could have sin imputed because he had one law to follow, don't eat. He broke it. Those living prior to the flood had knowledge of right and wrong and could be judged sinful on the basis of that but they could not be judged sinful on the basis of the Mosaic Law for that had not been given.

This is outside scripture. You said Adam could have sin imputed because he had one law to follow, don’t eat. Just think, if sin was imputed to Adam because God commanded him not to eat, then why make a point of it in Romans 5:13 KJV, Hebrews 8:5-7 KJV.

The first covenant was made with Moses where the law was instituted, John 1:17 KJV. There was no law instituted prior to the Mosiac Law.