Should a Christian attend a gay wedding ?

[Divide]

we get to decide how marriages are conducted (or not) inside our own churches, but that's where it ends.

Well then why wont you guys leave the Christian Churches alone and go open your own church?

You get to decide in your churches, but us Christians don't get the same respect? I smell a rat...

 

[Divide]

It seems to me that some of the difficulty some Christians have is simply that they're affronted by this; that they think the whole world should conform to Christian norms. But we have to get over that, and the sooner the better.

I believe that you are speaking of the gay agenda here. Let's reform those Christian churches to be like us!

Too many cartoons maybe?

 

[Divide]

If a Christian feels unhappy about attending a gay wedding, there is no mandate, or compulsion, for them to do so. If they feel uncomfortable, they can stay away.
But it is not right for a Christian who may choose to attend out of love for a relative/friend to be made to feel they are condoning sin or "consorting with the world."

No it would not make it right. You need to learn the difference between conviction of the Holy Spirit, and the condemnation of the enemy.

Those of us who have actually read scriptures see that, being friends with the world is to be at enmity with God...How do you reconcile that? Ignore it?!

 

[Divide]

What is this that the pro gay camp keeps saying about Christians in this thread? That Christians are giving them condemnation...

You couldn't be further from the truth and none of them can refrence such a post. I'm not saying that they don't feel pricked with conviction at the words of Christians, because the truth can hurt sometimes when it speaks to us....

But then someone must whisper in their ear, they're condemning you! They have no heart blah blah blah... so then they feel condemnation. And it is my belief that these are nonbelievers, who know so little about God or His word that, they don't even know who is talking to them! They are deceived by the world into hating Christians and loving anyone who is pro gay. Morpheous was right, it is the world which has been pulled over their eyes. That's why they have no scriptures and can only respond to Christian talk with mans laws or political correctness as having been "victimized" by them.


Being gay is no big deal. The world wants you to be gay, there is your first red flag, lol. Sexual immorality is just another class of sins that sinners need to repent from. No Christian is singling out gays for any reason. If a gay is here and seeking God or to repent and learn the ways of God, then there would be questions from them put forth on how to do this da da da. I havent seen any! Only stuff like, Compare us to Christians us gays love God too. Certaainly we can get Married! Who could be so foul to deny the gays the right to marry, not serve God, just Marry....??!!

So they deceived you and made you think that you were born gay (Lol!) can you not understand that the prick of conviction is the Holy Spirit of God telling you, this is right and you know it down inside...
And that is scriptural also, ask me and I'll post you the refrence.

So what do got? You Christians should learn to love and accept us gays..., Yes but you need to repent and ask the Lord to come into your heart and to purify you of any unrighteousness...
Ow, he hit me! We can't change! I was born this way (LoL!).

So in summary. the gays want the Christians to change to accept them, and they refuse to change themselves or repent from anything, because I said so and will take offense?!

Do I have this right my people?

That doesn't seem fair to me at all. I could only respond to that with, I'm sorry sir you have the wrong address here, this is a Church of God...the door's over there, sorry for your confusion!!!

 

[Hazelelponi]

Can we discuss this important topic.

For background I suggest viewing this video that presents the issue quite thoroughly.

Your considered comments most welcome.

Honestly, how many faithful Christians would even be invited to a homosexual wedding party?

Most homosexuals would be either work associates, or family members.

If it was my son or daughter I would probably attend - it's not like my kids don't know my religious views, and such a thing wouldn't stop me from loving my kids anyway.

If it was someone from work, unless it was my boss or something I'd probably skip it because of the "gifting" obligation and not being close to the person in question.

However, I would treat a Christian marriage just the same... Skip it unless I "had" to attend. Let's face it, few people actually want to attend weddings and even fewer want to figure out clothes to wear and what gift to bring...

I don't see wedding attendance as a tacit endorsement of said behavior... Rather, it's an endorsement of how you feel about the person your there for.

God loves people, and even sinners can saved. The door to salvation is open to even the worst of sinners. So why would we not show our love in representation of that open door?

My son isn't a homosexual, but like them he's unsaved... It doesn't stop me from loving him and being his mom... If I was to shut the door in his face to my heart, he would likely never hear about Christ.

No point slamming doors on those who need to know about salvation the most...

 

[Paidiske]

Did I miss some posts here? I agre that Believing Christians have a rich scriptural support showing...but where is the scriptural suport for the other iew?

If you go through the thread, and document every instance of quoting, referring to Scripture, or alluding to Scriptural themes, you will find them on both "sides" of the discussion.

By the way, implying that people who disagree with you are not "believing Christians" is likely to run foul of CF's "not a real Christian" flaming rule.

You shock me.

You were the one who asserted that "Marriage was invented by God and given as a gift to mankind. The Bible clearly outlines how the Marriage proceedings and stuff are to happen I don't think we are allowed by God to make substitutions of the protocol and still be able to call it a real Marriage."

If you weren't arguing that this means the world should conform to Christian norms, I'm afraid your point was rather unclear..

But let's pedal back: the subject is Should A CHRISTIAN attend a gay wedding. We all know that this wedding is going to go forward, we as Christians, are explaining to other Christians why A CHRISTIAN shouldn't go.

And some of us are saying, well, that's not necessarily a position we'd hold as an absolute, but one which is open to discernment by the particular person who's invited.

It seems to me that some of the difficulty some secular individuals are having is simply that they are affronted by this: by the fact that when Christ returns, He will enact judgment against all things that offend and practice lawlessness.

And until then, we have to live in a much more complex social landscape.

Well then why wont you guys leave the Christian Churches alone and go open your own church?

First up; even those of us who are saying that attending a gay wedding is not a black-and-white question, don't necessarily belong to churches which would solemnise such marriages. My church wouldn't.

Second, even those who disagree with you in this conversation are still Christian.

If there's a call for change anywhere in what I'm saying, it's this: Christians have, for far too long, inflicted serious harm both on gay people, and on our mission by our unjust and harmful treatment of gay people. If we want to be effective in proclaiming the good news of the kingdom, we have to recognise the ways in which our rhetoric and actions have been harmful, and repent. And what I see in threads like this is how very far we still have to go.

 

[Divide]

I don't see wedding attendance as a tacit endorsement of said behavior... Rather, it's an endorsement of how you feel about the person your there for.

The scriptures were posted about that I believe. But the writings of Attorneys and also scripture can be confusing sometimes. But a diligent attorney will do his homework and find those refrences...and many times, very many times, he will find the truth in something said in a different yet related case and then go on to win for the truth's sake.

The fact is, that Marriage is not the invention of man, but by God. God gave man a wife and Marriage and He sanctified it as Holy. Right?

So it is important to God! Why would a gay seek to be Married in a Christian church, God's own Church!?? That is a house of God, Sister, and a statement is being made with every Marriage and prayer sent up from her...

How about when the Pastor who is officiating says, if there be any here who have cayse that these two should not be wed, speak now or forever hold your peace...

Do you understand that, that is a legal statement? Made in the House of God? Here is where people slip and give their endorsement of the union.

You can't stand in attendance at a wedding and remain guiltless by simply staying silent when that is said!

The only thing that evil needs to triumph is for good men to do nothing. (Edmund Burke)

 

[Hazelelponi]

Why would a gay seek to be Married in a Christian church

Most marriages don't take place in churches - I would never ever attend a gay marriage inside a church - THAT is different than just attending a wedding, most marriages don't even mention God or use Scripture in their vows.

 

[Divide]

Rather, it's an endorsement of how you feel about the person your there for.

That's what they want you to believe. But stop for a wee moment and look around you...Ok you are there for your son let's say. But where are you? Oh, in God's House. Attending a gay sons wedding. And you know God is not willing to change His mind about being gay is sinful and so, not ordained by God. Does this make any sense to you?

Be careful! We know that you are a good Christian woman with good values and that you love your son. So when you stand beside your son in attendance at an unholy Marriage because you love him, your son.

And then the Pastor says, let not man separate what God has joined together...That being said is lifting the Marriage up unto God for His Blessing...in His house, and you think you can play neutral for appearances sake?! A gay wedding is a serious thing and an abomination to God. And you would have to pick one, either side with your son, or side with God! But not both!

What do you think was meant when the Lord said, if you do not love me more than Father or Mother (or son) that you can not be my disciple?

It doesn't mean not to love your son. It means where your sons doctrine starys from the truth that God has revealed to you, you must side with God and the truth.

But, you are blessed that your son is not really gay! Mine either, Praise the Lord!

 

[Divide]

If you go through the thread, and document every instance of quoting, referring to Scripture, or alluding to Scriptural themes, you will find them on both "sides" of the discussion.

I'm sorry that you misunderstood me, sister. I meant, that since you have made that assertion about the Christians, would you show it to me? Pretty simple.

"Well if you go back through them you can see it...." (Lol!! OMGosh!)
It was your assertion. Show me where. Stand behind what you say. What exactly was said that made you think that and where?

I don't think you can show it to me!
Come on, do your own homework and back yourself up. Or maybe no can do?!

 

[stevevw]

Can we discuss this important topic.

For background I suggest viewing this video that presents the issue quite thoroughly.

Your considered comments most welcome.

I have watched most of the video and agree its quite interesting. Dr. Robert Gagnon makes some good points about why as Christains we should not go to a gay wedding. I like the way he ties this issue back to Genises to show the binary of sex and the two becoming one flesh. I think this is a foundational truth and what is happening is that this Truth is being slowly undermined.

Other good points were how he used the analogy of incest and gay union and how this relates to 'sameness'. When male and female come together they form 2 different parts to make the whole. That whole is complimentary and designed for procreation. But an incestual union has too much sameness of each person that though procreation can happen there are problems. A SS union also has too much sameness even more so than incest because no offspring can happen at all.

Also how an arguement can be made for polygamy on the basis of SSM arguements and how this all relates to Pauls letter to the Corinthians about dealing with matters of idol worship and sexual immorality which seems to be the spiritual basis for most issues in society today and how this relates back to the foundational truth of Gods word about being made in His image male and female.

So it seems he is saying Paul was trying to instruct the growing Church about these matters. To not squablle about deifferences in unimportant matters that won't save or prevent someone from Gods Kingdom. But matters like same sex unions within the church and Christain community are to be treated as serious matters (salvation of soul) and to not take lightly as for the reasons given can undermine the church.

I will have to think some more about it as it gives some food for thought. What is your take on these matters.

 

[ralliann]

The Christian idea that marriage is based in natural law, assuming that it is, is informed by the more general notion of natural law being grounded in divine law, which is a notion developed by Christian theologians. You're still assuming all conceptions of marriage should conform to those of one religious understanding. That's just not going to work in a society where not everyone adheres to that one understanding. That doesn't mean you have to accept or approve of other understandings within the culture, but it does mean any expectation that they conform to that one understanding is not justified. Certainly, any appropriation of civil law for that end is egregiously out of order.

More generally, we have to accept the reality of what is now understood as acceptable in the larger culture and figure out our best response. I disagree with those that think the only response is condemnation and ostracizing those who enter into marriage with a same-sex partner, and I disagree for reasons I and others have stated. I think if Christians would drop the condemnation and embrace loving even those in such relationships, it would do more for the kingdom than condemnation. Loving those we see as engaging in sin is not approval. It's love.

As I said before, at what point do I wish ill for those in same-sex marriages? There is no such point. There is no point that I should wish ill for anyone. If that's the case, I can attend a same-sex wedding, wish them well and pray for them, even if I disagree. If I don't do that, I am more concerned about my righteousness than I am about their well-being. That's a spiritually dangerous road to go down, which is partly why we are commanded to not judge.

My point of "Natural law", concerning marriage concerned peoples from the beginning. Which relationships of male and female produces children. Marriage set apart parental rights, as well as responsibility of the natural consequence of that relationship. Religion has nothing to do with that reality. Marriage was not merely to acknowledge a couples "feelings" for one another.
Convictions about that for Christians, implied as "unrighteous" is your condemnation of others. I myself would not attend a same sex wedding.
However, I do understand these things occur in the world. I also understand why. Privileges which treat each partner in that relationship, concerning common property, issues of health decisions as next of kin etc. But that is accomplished legally. A civil union accomplishes that goal for them. Marriage in natural law, concerned offspring. Which same sex couples have no such natural results.

 

[Paidiske]

I'm sorry that you misunderstood me, sister. I meant, that since you have made that assertion about the Christians, would you show it to me? Pretty simple.

"Well if you go back through them you can see it...." (Lol!! OMGosh!)
It was your assertion. Show me where. Stand behind what you say. What exactly was said that made you think that and where?

I don't think you can show it to me!
Come on, do your own homework and back yourself up. Or maybe no can do?!

We're at fourteen pages and that would be significant work that I don't really have time for, so no, I'm not going back to document what you have read for yourself. I know that I myself have made a number of relevant Scriptural references, and I'm not the only contributor to the thread.

 

[Divide]

By the way, implying that people who disagree with you are not "believing Christians" is likely to run foul of CF's "not a real Christian" flaming rule.

You seem to be saying that I have no right to imply anything with my opinion or to have an opinion. I'm sure if you whine and complain about me enough they might ban me. That might give a warm fuzzy feeling. I can not fail to speak the truth as I see it. Maybe you disagree with me? So what? You don't have to agree.

Why is your camp so fond of playing the Victim card?

Nobody attacked you. Did you feel some sort of conviction to those words? That's between you and God. I implyed nothing to you. Except that you all love to play the victim card. I have an idea though!

We could try to talk like adults without the foolishness of, Owie, he Implyed to me! Stay on topic please.

 

[ralliann]

And some people like having all the appearance of religion while denying the power thereof. Just ask the Pharisee who boasted while at the temple and looked down on all those sinners, especially that filthy tax collector.

As such, some have secured their reward already, by accumulating their glory in this life, which rots and rusts or is consumed by moth. Such boast of their own righteousness before God, and believe themselves above reproach and without need for repentance.

But the Master says it is not the healthy who are in need of a physician, and He did not come to call the righteous but the unrighteous to repentance. And the Prophet Micah spoke clearly that what God requires of us is to do justice, to love kindness, and to walk humbly with God.

When you find yourself on the side of hating others and trying to use God to justify it, you've already lost the battle.

-CryptoLutheran

And some will call evil good, and good evil. Scripture condemns this behavior; the world accepts it. So what that Christians would not attend a wedding based on that?

 

[Paidiske]

You seem to be saying that I have no right to imply anything with my opinion or to have an opinion.

I was trying to be helpful and pointing out something a lot of people don't realise about the rules. What you do with that, is up to you.

 

[ralliann]

We're at fourteen pages and that would be significant work that I don't really have time for, so no, I'm not going back to document what you have read for yourself. I know that I myself have made a number of relevant Scriptural references, and I'm not the only contributor to the thread.

So, you as a minister of God, have no problem blessing such a couple? And those of us which would not are unjust?

 

[Divide]

we have to accept the reality of what is now understood as acceptable in the larger culture and figure out our best response.

Oh no we don't. This is the lie!

So basically you seem to be saying that, the majority of people accept it so we should too...

But can you give even one example of the majority ever being right?
The Lord's word says, narrow is the gate and narrow is the path that leads to salvation, wide is the gate to destruction. What do I do with that using your logic? Tear that page out of my Bible?

I like it being in the minority.

 

[Hazelelponi]

you...Ok you are there for your son let's say. But where are you? Oh, in God's House. Attending a gay sons wedding.

I repeat - most weddings do NOT take place in churches.

They are held at various venues, (parks, beaches, peoples homes etc.,) the greatest majority are not held in a church, nor do Pastors officiate them.

In fact, there is NO Pastor of God anywhere on earth that would officiate a homosexual wedding. Period. End of.

However, some people who call themselves pastors and work in places they call churches but are not, will officiate.

I will NOT attend such an event, but I WOULD attend an outdoor wedding with a non-religious theme.

 

[Paidiske]

So, you as a minister of God, have no problem blessing such a couple? And those of us which would not are unjust?

We are talking here of attending a wedding, not solemnising one. It is currently not legal for me, as an Anglican priest, to conduct a same-sex wedding in this country.* I am comfortable with that.

I am not arguing that Christian churches should conduct same-sex marriages. I am arguing that the position that a Christian should never attend a same-sex marriage in any setting or situation does not leave adequate room for people's differing relationships and circumstances, and that decision making on this is more complex than a simple black and white position.

*Australia has same-sex marriage but places restrictions on what ministers of religion may do; it's complicated but if you're really interested I can post a lot of detail about our marriage act.