Easter According to Daniel

[keras]

The idea is to square what is recorded in Matthew 24:21 with that of what is recorded in Revelation 7:9 and Revelation 7:14, thus Scripture interpreting Scripture, and not instead, having these accounts contradict each other.

But you make the mistake of saying; great tribulation in Rev 7:14, is something other than the obvious - the just occurred Sixth Seal worldwide disaster.
The people John sees, Rev 7:9, are all Christians who did what we are told 3 times; to do on that terrible Day: Call upon the Name of the Lord and you will be saved.

The 144,000 are selected out of them by Jesus, who will be revealed to His own, after His Day of fiery wrath. Revelation 14:1-5, 2 Thess 1:6-10

 

[3 Resurrections]

Is one going to argue that the number which no man can number, that came out of great tribulation, that this is meaning the unbelieving Jews that were slaughtered involving 70 AD?

What if this is connected to the Sea Beast in Revelation 13:5-7 who was given power to make war for forty-two months against the saints, and to overcome them? Power was given to this Sea Beast over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations, so the effects of this forty two months of war against the saints would have extended to the saints in all these nations.

This forty-two-month war against the saints is a copy of the Daniel 7:24-25 prophecy where the saints would be "worn out" during a time, times and half a time (42 months again) by being given into the hand of one of the horns on that fourth beast - the one horn who "exceeded all the former ones in wickedness". I believe that horn on the fourth beast was Nero, who launched a persecution of the Christians in late AD 64 until just before his death in AD 68 (a 42-month timespan). It is possible that the emperor Nero's persecution staged against the Christians in this 42 months managed to kill a vast unnumbered multitude of saints, wouldn't you think?

After all, John promised the hour of tribulation that was "about to come on all the world..." in Revelation 3:10. This warning of coming tribulation involved more than just vengeance on the unbelieving Jews being carried out.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

The 70 Weeks spoken by Gabriel to Daniel is very misunderstood and misinterpreted. The OP and this entire discussion is typical of those that truly don't understand it. Almost everyone looks at the end of Chapter 9 without really considering the beginning of the chapter. That's where the entire key to the whole thing is. God sent Gabriel to answer Daniel's prayer. What was he praying about? Daniel says he was specifically reading Jeremiah and the 70 Years prophecy - not for Judah and the exile - but FOR BABYLON. Almost no one bothers to read through Jeremiah to see what had Daniel so excited and passionate.

 

[Christian Gedge]

I was focusing on the goals on purpose because it was Easter. However, since you bring up the early part of the prophecy, would you like to share how you see the connection between Jeremiah’s 70 years and Daniel’s 70 weeks?

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

I was focusing on the goals on purpose because it was Easter. However, since you bring up the early part of the prophecy, would you like to share how you see the connection between Jeremiah’s 70 years and Daniel’s 70 weeks?

You can check out the proper interpretation of the 70 Weeks prophecy here with my 7 part series:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5hXmAa69113D6OdZk-0TpA9_n3pYpZkm

 

[3 Resurrections]

You can check out the proper interpretation of the 70 Weeks prophecy here with my 7 part series:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5hXmAa69113D6OdZk-0TpA9_n3pYpZkm

I listened to most of the one section you gave concerning the last, 70th week. To date, I have never heard anyone placing more than one gap in this entire 70-week prophecy before, as you are doing. Scripture never puts a time gap in any of its prophecies when it gives a precise term of years for something to take place. I believe it is an error to insert gaps in this 70-week prophecy as well. It would be like using an elastic yardstick to measure something - not an accurate indicator of measurement at all.

Also, you have the wrong year for the decree given in the 20th year of Artaxerxes' reign; a reign which began back in 474 BC as a shared co-regency with Artaxerxes' father. This resulted in a 454 BC decree which involved the restoration of the walls and the street in front of the temple.

However, I DO think you are correct in your discussion of creation week's seven days forming a pattern for 7,000 years.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

I listened to most of the one section you gave concerning the last, 70th week. To date, I have never heard anyone placing more than one gap in this entire 70-week prophecy before, as you are doing. Scripture never puts a time gap in any of its prophecies when it gives a precise term of years for something to take place. I believe it is an error to insert gaps in this 70-week prophecy as well. It would be like using an elastic yardstick to measure something - not an accurate indicator of measurement at all.

Also, you have the wrong year for the decree given in the 20th year of Artaxerxes' reign; a reign which began back in 474 BC as a shared co-regency with Artaxerxes' father. This resulted in a 454 BC decree which involved the restoration of the walls and the street in front of the temple.

However, I DO think you are correct in your discussion of creation week's seven days forming a pattern for 7,000 years.

If you only listened to 1 video - the last one - you didn't get the flow of the entire proof that led up to it. You don't have a complete understanding. Gabriel specifically gives 3 groupings - groups of weeks (7 years). The proper interpretation recognizes that there ARE 2 gaps in between - ones that ALSO are made up of weeks of years. It's not elastic as you say. It's very specific.

And no, the decree year is not wrong. In fact, the decree doesn't actually matter since no one knows when (what day) it was actually made. Everyone ASSUMES it was Nisan 1. But no one knows. And no one can know since there is no historical record that states this.

 

[3 Resurrections]

If you only listened to 1 video - the last one - you didn't get the flow of the entire proof that led up to it. You don't have a complete understanding. Gabriel specifically gives 3 groupings - groups of weeks (7 years). The proper interpretation recognizes that there ARE 2 gaps in between - ones that ALSO are made up of weeks of years. It's not elastic as you say. It's very specific.

You yourself gave a fairly clear summation in that last section of your proof leading up to your interpretation of the final 70th week. Yes I realize, of course, that Gabriel subdivided the 70 weeks into three groupings, but that does NOT entail a gap of any kind between those 3 groupings. You have artificially inserted gaps where none were intended. When God gave Daniel a 70 week time span which would reveal the identity of the Messiah in the beginning of that 70th week, he never wrote of massive time gaps between any of those 3 groupings.

A 70-week time period with extensive gaps inserted artificially within it IS an "elastic" tape measure. This makes it an absolutely useless tool for determining anything accurately. Anyone could then stretch that elastic tape measure to make it last any length of time they want, which was not what God intended.

Christ Himself said He was sent to "the lost sheep of the house of Israel" (Matthew 15:24). This was the same as Daniel 9's one week of Christ "confirming the covenant with many for one week", with the gospel going to Daniel's people of the house of Israel. Christ "came unto His own, and His own received Him not", (with the exception of the believing "remnant" of Israelites), before the emphasis of gospel evangelism switched over to the Gentile nations under the ministry of Paul the "Apostle to the Gentiles". The end of the 70th week finished in AD 37 with Paul's commission by God to concentrate his ministry to the Gentiles. We are not currently waiting for the end of the 70th week; it ended long ago.

And no, the decree year is not wrong. In fact, the decree doesn't actually matter since no one knows when (what day) it was actually made. Everyone ASSUMES it was Nisan 1. But no one knows. And no one can know since there is no historical record that states this.

The year of the particular decree most definitely DOES matter. Christ's deity as "Messiah the Prince" is at stake in this. The day that decree was given doesn't matter, since that is never mentioned in the specifics of Daniel's 70-week prophecy. Only the year of that particular decree is the important factor. And WE DO have archaeological evidence which helps prove the year that decree was given regarding the rebuilding of the walls and the street in front of the temple, since that evidence shows us when the 20th year of Artaxerxes' reign actually began (back in 474 BC).

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

You yourself gave a fairly clear summation in that last section of your proof leading up to your interpretation of the final 70th week. Yes I realize, of course, that Gabriel subdivided the 70 weeks into three groupings, but that does NOT entail a gap of any kind between those 3 groupings. You have artificially inserted gaps where none were intended. When God gave Daniel a 70 week time span which would reveal the identity of the Messiah in the beginning of that 70th week, he never wrote of massive time gaps between any of those 3 groupings.

A 70-week time period with extensive gaps inserted artificially within it IS an "elastic" tape measure. This makes it an absolutely useless tool for determining anything accurately. Anyone could then stretch that elastic tape measure to make it last any length of time they want, which was not what God intended.

Christ Himself said He was sent to "the lost sheep of the house of Israel" (Matthew 15:24). This was the same as Daniel 9's one week of Christ "confirming the covenant with many for one week", with the gospel going to Daniel's people of the house of Israel. Christ "came unto His own, and His own received Him not", (with the exception of the believing "remnant" of Israelites), before the emphasis of gospel evangelism switched over to the Gentile nations under the ministry of Paul the "Apostle to the Gentiles". The end of the 70th week finished in AD 37 with Paul's commission by God to concentrate his ministry to the Gentiles. We are not currently waiting for the end of the 70th week; it ended long ago.

The year of the particular decree most definitely DOES matter. Christ's deity as "Messiah the Prince" is at stake in this. The day that decree was given doesn't matter, since that is never mentioned in the specifics of Daniel's 70-week prophecy. Only the year of that particular decree is the important factor. And WE DO have archaeological evidence which helps prove the year that decree was given regarding the rebuilding of the walls and the street in front of the temple, since that evidence shows us when the 20th year of Artaxerxes' reign actually began (back in 474 BC).

I just have to go to the underlying flaw of everything that you wrote. I don't even have to go point by point. The underlying flaw of your interpretation (and most everyone else) is that you base your understanding on a capital letter - where none occurs in the original text. Actually, Hebrew does not have capitals at all. So if any Bible translation puts in a capital "M" for Messiah, they are putting in their opinion and it is not according to the original text. It should read "messiah". The first group of years is NOT pointing to messiah Jesus but another messiah which God, Himself predicts in Isaiah.

The first gap is obvious in the text. Gabriel states that "after the 62 weeks". Not "after the 69 weeks" which is what he would have said if there was not a gap between the first 7 and the next 62. People just do not think logically about what is there.

I never said the year of the decree doesn't matter. I specifically said the "day" of the decree since that's where everyone goes wrong.

 

[3 Resurrections]

I just have to go to the underlying flaw of everything that you wrote. I don't even have to go point by point. The underlying flaw of your interpretation (and most everyone else) is that you base your understanding on a capital letter - where none occurs in the original text. Actually, Hebrew does not have capitals at all. So if any Bible translation puts in a capital "M" for Messiah, they are putting in their opinion and it is not according to the original text. It should read "messiah". The first group of years is NOT pointing to messiah Jesus but another messiah which God, Himself predicts in Isaiah.

It is actually immaterial whether the word "messiah" is capitalized or not. The "messiah" is the same thing as the prophesied "Messiah the Prince" (or "messiah the prince" - doesn't matter) which the entire nation of Israel and even those in Samaria were expecting. Luke 3:15 said of that particular year when John was baptizing that "all men mused in their hearts of John, whether he were the Christ, or not:" Even the Samaritan woman at the well knew that "Messias cometh, which is called Christ; when he cometh, he will tell us all things."

The beginning year of the 70th week was the exact year when the delegation of Pharisees, priests and Levites was sent to John asking if he were "that Christ" or Elijah, or the prophet. All of these people in Israel had calculated correctly the year when the prophesied Christ / Messiah would be showing up for the beginning of His ministry among them. They all knew that was the beginning of that 70th week concerning the coming of the Anointed One, who was called "the Christ".

The first gap is obvious in the text. Gabriel states that "after the 62 weeks". Not "after the 69 weeks" which is what he would have said if there was not a gap between the first 7 and the next 62. People just do not think logically about what is there.

NO, it is NOT "obvious" that it requires a gap when it says "after the 62 weeks". All that means is that the particular event would be taking place within the 70th week - not during the 62 weeks which immediately preceded the 70th week.

I never said the year of the decree doesn't matter. I specifically said the "day" of the decree since that's where everyone goes wrong.

The problem is that Daniel's prophecy never specifies a "day" for the decree - just the particular YEAR which started the entire 70 weeks of years. I don't remember reading or hearing anyone trying to specify a particular day in which this 490 years began. You are the first one I have ever heard that says it is necessary to pin down a day for it, which scripture never brings up for this.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

It is actually immaterial whether the word "messiah" is capitalized or not. The "messiah" is the same thing as the prophesied "Messiah the Prince" (or "messiah the prince" - doesn't matter) which the entire nation of Israel and even those in Samaria were expecting. Luke 3:15 said of that particular year when John was baptizing that "all men mused in their hearts of John, whether he were the Christ, or not:" Even the Samaritan woman at the well knew that "Messias cometh, which is called Christ; when he cometh, he will tell us all things."

The beginning year of the 70th week was the exact year when the delegation of Pharisees, priests and Levites was sent to John asking if he were "that Christ" or Elijah, or the prophet. All of these people in Israel had calculated correctly the year when the prophesied Christ / Messiah would be showing up for the beginning of His ministry among them. They all knew that was the beginning of that 70th week concerning the coming of the Anointed One, who was called "the Christ".

NO, it is NOT "obvious" that it requires a gap when it says "after the 62 weeks". All that means is that the particular event would be taking place within the 70th week - not during the 62 weeks which immediately preceded the 70th week.

The problem is that Daniel's prophecy never specifies a "day" for the decree - just the particular YEAR which started the entire 70 weeks of years. I don't remember reading or hearing anyone trying to specify a particular day in which this 490 years began. You are the first one I have ever heard that says it is necessary to pin down a day for it, which scripture never brings up for this.

Like I said, your entire opinion about this is flawed. You have not connected what Daniel actually was studying in Jeremiah about the 70 years which got Daniel so excited. Without understanding that basic fact, any interpretation will be flawed from the very start.

About the date of Artaxerxes decree. Almost everyone thinks that is important. Are you not aware of the most common understanding (flawed) of the 70 Weeks? I'm not saying it is important - you are not reading what I write clearly enough. I don't think it is important at all.

What I am saying is if you get the "messiah" wrong and who God is referring to - you are lost from the get go.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Like I said, your entire opinion about this is flawed. You have not connected what Daniel actually was studying in Jeremiah about the 70 years which got Daniel so excited. Without understanding that basic fact, any interpretation will be flawed from the very start.

Daniel's excitement was due to his realization that the culmination of the 70 years of Babylonian exile was at hand in his days. This does not make the 70 years an integral part of the 70 weeks of years. The two prophesies are distinctly separate from each other on the calendar.

About the date of Artaxerxes decree. Almost everyone thinks that is important. Are you not aware of the most common understanding (flawed) of the 70 Weeks? I'm not saying it is important - you are not reading what I write clearly enough. I don't think it is important at all.

The most common misunderstanding about the 70 weeks is that there is a gap for the last 70th week, extending the last half of it until the last days of human history. That is a mistake. If you don't think that getting the date right for the year which begins the 70 weeks of years is important at all, then you must not agree with Christ when He announced in Mark 1:15 that "the time is fulfilled" at the first year of His public ministry. Christ was telling His generation at that time that Daniel's 70th week had begun. It had been 483 years prior to that time when the decree was given. Christ fulfilled the terms of the prophecy exactly, confirming His deity.

What I am saying is if you get the "messiah" wrong and who God is referring to - you are lost from the get go.

Yep, that is what befell the first-century Jews who did not receive Christ, after they realized He was not going to be a militant type messiah that they presumed Daniel was describing. This is what gave rise to all the "false christs" and "false prophets" which Christ predicted were coming in the first century. All those "false christs" had to present their claims to the messiah role as close to that first year of the 70th week as possible, or their claims would not have been plausible to the Jewish public who knew their Daniel prophecy. They could twist the dates slightly from that AD 30 year, but not by much, or their false claims would not have fooled anyone. They are the many "antichrists" which John said had arisen back then, out of whom one would first rise to prominence.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

Daniel's excitement was due to his realization that the culmination of the 70 years of Babylonian exile was at hand in his days. This does not make the 70 years an integral part of the 70 weeks of years. The two prophesies are distinctly separate from each other on the calendar.

The most common misunderstanding about the 70 weeks is that there is a gap for the last 70th week, extending the last half of it until the last days of human history. That is a mistake. If you don't think that getting the date right for the year which begins the 70 weeks of years is important at all, then you must not agree with Christ when He announced in Mark 1:15 that "the time is fulfilled" at the first year of His public ministry. Christ was telling His generation at that time that Daniel's 70th week had begun. It had been 483 years prior to that time when the decree was given. Christ fulfilled the terms of the prophecy exactly, confirming His deity.

Yep, that is what befell the first-century Jews who did not receive Christ, after they realized He was not going to be a militant type messiah that they presumed Daniel was describing. This is what gave rise to all the "false christs" and "false prophets" which Christ predicted were coming in the first century. All those "false christs" had to present their claims to the messiah role as close to that first year of the 70th week as possible, or their claims would not have been plausible to the Jewish public who knew their Daniel prophecy. They could twist the dates slightly from that AD 30 year, but not by much, or their false claims would not have fooled anyone. They are the many "antichrists" which John said had arisen back then, out of whom one would first rise to prominence.

It's very difficult to accept that what you have come to believe about prophecy is wrong. There's nothing that will change your mind unless you are open to look at the prophecy in an open and honest way. All I can do is point you to the breadcrumbs that will lead you to the right path.

Again, if you don't realize what the 70 years in Jeremiah are all about, you will be lost. And no, it's not about 70 years of exile in Babylon. Almost everyone thinks this and it's absolutely false. It's amazing to me since the words are so clear that it has nothing to do with the exile. It says that there will be 70 years that Babylon will be the dominant power in the region. And it was - exactly 70 years.

Only by recognizing 3 distinct periods of weeks along with 2 gaps of weeks will you understand what the prophecy is all about. Gabriel gives the 6 reasons for the prophecy - again, THE key to understanding the different events and the gaps between. And the next important thing is to determine who it was that gave the "decree". Ezra contains the clue. And again everyone looks to one of 3 earthly kings when Ezra says there were actually 4 decrees. Only by understanding this, will the start of the prophecy be known.

Some people understood this prophecy and the gaps originally. It's why the Magi knew exactly which year the Jewish messiah was expected. It's why Simeon and Anna in the temple knew when to expect the birth of the messiah.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Only by recognizing 3 distinct periods of weeks along with 2 gaps of weeks will you understand what the prophecy is all about. Gabriel gives the 6 reasons for the prophecy - again, THE key to understanding the different events and the gaps between.

There are NO gaps in this intact 490 years of history from start to finish. The six things listed which would take place within the 490 years have already happened long ago. It was the 4th decree given in the 20th year of Artaxerxes' reign which dealt with rebuilding the walls and street, which was accomplished within 52 days, even during those "troublous times" of harassment by Sanballat, etc.

The year of Christ's birth is not what was predicted by the Daniel prophecy, but the year in which Christ's public miraculous ministry began (not the year of His baptism). This ministry was the start of a seven year period of confirming the covenant with many of Daniel's people, ending with Paul's commission to go "far hence" to the Gentiles.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

There are NO gaps in this intact 490 years of history from start to finish. The six things listed which would take place within the 490 years have already happened long ago. It was the 4th decree given in the 20th year of Artaxerxes' reign which dealt with rebuilding the walls and street, which was accomplished within 52 days, even during those "troublous times" of harassment by Sanballat, etc.

The year of Christ's birth is not what was predicted by the Daniel prophecy, but the year in which Christ's public miraculous ministry began (not the year of His baptism). This ministry was the start of a seven year period of confirming the covenant with many of Daniel's people, ending with Paul's commission to go "far hence" to the Gentiles.

Well, that's your opinion. The real interpretation is there in the videos if you ever have a more open mind.

 

[Christian Gedge]

However, since you bring up the early part of the prophecy, would you like to share how you see the connection between Jeremiah’s 70 years and Daniel’s 70 weeks?

You can check out the proper interpretation of the 70 Weeks prophecy here with my 7 part series:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5hXmAa69113D6OdZk-0TpA9_n3pYpZkm

Jeremiah's 70 years shows us that both he and Daniel were referencing the Sabbatical-year cycle as explained in Leviticus 25 and 2 Chronicles 36:21. However, you have developed a theory involving multiple gaps in that timeline. There are, of course, no gaps in calendars, so I am not prepared to sit through so many videos unless they take that into account.

Pity. I was hoping you would have seen the connection between Jeremiah and Daniel. As you say, he was excited when understanding the earlier prophet.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

Jeremiah's 70 years shows us that both he and Daniel were referencing the Sabbatical-year cycle as explained in Leviticus 25 and 2 Chronicles 36:21. However, you have developed a theory involving multiple gaps in that timeline. There are, of course, no gaps in calendars, so I am not prepared to sit through so many videos unless they take that into account.

Pity. I was hoping you would have seen the connection between Jeremiah and Daniel. As you say, he was excited when understanding the earlier prophet.

Actually. The 70 years in Jeremiah have absolutely nothing to do with Sabbatical cycles. Show proof that Jeremiah ties the 70 years to Sabbatical cycles. I bet you can't because it doesn't exist. The 70 years are specifically tied to the time of Babylon's dominance. That of course is what Daniel recognized. And nothing to do with Sabbatical cycles. Again, show proof in Daniel that the 70 weeks are tied to Sabbatical cycles. You can't because it doesn't exist.

It's hard for people to have an open mind when you've been told the same wrong information for your whole life. I get it. It took a lot of effort for me to jettison Anderson's/Hoehner's 70 weeks theory. But jettison we must if we actually want to understand the prophecy properly.

In all my videos I give the challenge for anyone to show where I have got anything wrong. Anything at all. With Biblical proof. Not opinion. That's the one big difference that this proper interpretation offers. Every point can be backed up with Scripture taken in the proper context with itself and with the rest of the Bible. It does not require "special" years. It does not depend on a certain denomination's bias. It fits all the facts - there is no fudging the years of any decrees (coregency nonsense). It's the most elegant solution ever presented. Of course it would be since it's the right one.

 

[Christian Gedge]

The 70 years in Jeremiah have absolutely nothing to do with Sabbatical cycles. Show proof that Jeremiah ties the 70 years to Sabbatical cycles. I bet you can't because it doesn't exist.

He took into exile in Babylon those who had escaped from the sword, and they became servants to him and to his sons until the establishment of the kingdom of Persia, to fulfill the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had enjoyed its Sabbaths. All the days that it lay desolate it kept Sabbath, to fulfill seventy years. (2 Chronicles 36:20-21)

 

[Christian Gedge]

I entirely accept your rejection of Anderson's and Hoehner's theory. I have their books. They have muddied the waters when it comes to end times.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

He took into exile in Babylon those who had escaped from the sword, and they became servants to him and to his sons until the establishment of the kingdom of Persia, to fulfill the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had enjoyed its Sabbaths. All the days that it lay desolate it kept Sabbath, to fulfill seventy years. (2 Chronicles 36:20-21)

As I challenged: show in Jeremiah where he ties the 70 years to the Sabbatical cycle. That is what you claimed. You must prove it in Jeremiah. 2 Chronicles says that Jehovah spoke by the mouth of Jeremiah. What was that exactly? Please state it with proof.

Notice that it is "the establishment of the kingdom of Persia" which is the direct subject that the fulfillment describes. THAT is what almost everyone gets wrong.