Col 2:16 is about not judging others

[BobRyan]

Yes, they edit as in reinterpret. So the 10 that they affirm are a reinterpreted 10.

Pope John Paul II in Dies Domini,
62. It is the duty of Christians therefore to remember that, although the practices of the Jewish Sabbath are gone, surpassed as they are by the "fulfilment" which Sunday brings, the underlying reasons for keeping "the Lord's Day" holy — inscribed solemnly in the Ten Commandments — remain valid, though they need to be reinterpreted in the light of the theology and spirituality of Sunday: "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy, as the Lord your God commanded you. Six days you shall labour, and do all your work; but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. Then you shall do no work, you, or your son, or your daughter, or your servant, or your maid, or your ox, or your ass, or any of your beasts, or the foreigner within your gates, that your servant and maid may rest as well as you. You shall remember that you were a servant in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out from there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God commanded that you keep the Sabbath day" (Dt 5:12-15). Here the Sabbath observance is closely linked with the liberation which God accomplished for his people.

A still obligatory TEN

CCC starting at 2052.

2068 The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christians and that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 The Second Vatican Council confirms: "The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments."

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/j...nts/hf_jp-ii_apl_05071998_dies-domini_en.html

Dies Domini pt 11

"the rest of the Sabbath..discloses something of the nuptial shape of the relationship which God wants to establish with the creature made in his image, by calling that creature to enter a pact of love".

Dies Domini pt 13 -

"the Sabbath ...is therefore rooted in the depths of God's plan. This is why unlike many other laws - it is not within the context of strictly cultic (Jewish) stipulations but within the Decalogue the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of moral life inscribed on the human heart!! In setting this commandment within the context of the basic structure of ethics, Israel and then the church declare that they consider it not just a matter of community religious discipline but a defining and indelible expression of our relationship to God, announced and expounded by biblical revelations.

Dies Domini pt 11 "if the first page of the book of Genesis presents God's work as an example for man, the same is true of God's rest - on the seventh day God finished his work which he had done therefore God blessed the seventh day and made it holy...it is a gaze which God casts upon all things, but in a special way upon man, the crown of creation. It is a gaze which already discloses something of the nuptial shape of the relationship God wants to establish with the creature made in his own image, by calling that creature to enter a pact of love."


Dies Domini

"God blessed the seventh day and made it holy" (Gn 2:3)

13. The Sabbath precept, which in the first Covenant prepares for the Sunday of the new and eternal Covenant, is therefore rooted in the depths of God's plan. This is why, unlike many other precepts, it is set not within the context of strictly cultic (Jewish) stipulations but within the Decalogue, the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of the moral life inscribed on the human heart. In setting this commandment within the context of the basic structure of ethics, Israel and then the Church declare that they consider it not just a matter of community religious discipline but a defining and indelible expression of our relationship with God, announced and expounded by biblical revelation. This is the perspective within which Christians need to rediscover this precept today. Although the precept may merge naturally with the human need for rest, it is faith alone which gives access to its deeper meaning and ensures that it will not become banal and trivialized.


CCC starting at 2052.

2068 The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christians and that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 The Second Vatican Council confirms: "The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments."

Dies Domini is a papal encyclical on the subject of Sunday and how it is regarded by tradition to be a holy day rooted in the 10 commandments as a continuation of the 4th commandment (numbered 3 by Roman Catholics).

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/j...nts/hf_jp-ii_apl_05071998_dies-domini_en.html


Dies Domini pt 11

"the rest of the Sabbath..discloses something of the nuptial shape of the relationship which God wants to establish with the creature made in his image, by calling that creature to enter a pact of love".

Dies Domini pt 13 -

"the Sabbath ...is therefore rooted in the depths of God's plan. This is why unlike many other laws - it is not within the context of strictly cultic (Jewish) stipulations but within the Decalogue the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of moral life inscribed on the human heart!! In setting this commandment within the context of the basic structure of ethics, Israel and then the church declare that they consider it not just a matter of community religious discipline but a defining and indelible expression of our relationship to God, announced and expounded by biblical revelations.


Dies Domini pt 11 "if the first page of the book of Genesis presents God's work as an example for man, the same is true of God's rest - on the seventh day God finished his work which he had done therefore God blessed the seventh day and made it holy...it is a gaze which God casts upon all things, but in a special way upon man, the crown
of creation. It is a gaze which already discloses something of the nuptial shape of the relationship God wants to establish with the creature made in his own image, by calling that creature to enter a pact of love."

 

[Valletta]

You are going to "correct" the Catholic Catechism?
ok - so I am interested in how that will go.

You're confusing this Convert's Catechism with the official Catechism of the Catholic Church.

 

[Leaf473]

The problem is that κυριακῇ (|Lord’s) is an adjective for DAY -- and that point "alone" works for whatever you want to put in as the meaning.
Not exactly decisive since this is also true in English and is not what determines a difference - but clearly a detail either way.

So in the text Lord’s Day is the two terms: κυριακη ημερα
And we have those same two terms - an adjective and a noun - in the same way in English.

So let's look at what matters.

In the book of Acts we see a similar thing where Luke uses the term "Sabbath" in places like Acts 13 and Acts 18:4 but does not tell the reader that the Sabbath is the 7th day of the week. The reader has to go to places like Exodus 20 - outside of Luke's writing to find out that the weekly Sabbath in Acts - is in fact the 7th day of the week.

John is using a term his readers already know about in scripture as "The Holy Day of the Lord" Is 58:13 (Sabbath) and "Jesus is LORD of the Sabbath" Mark 2:28




Yes there is. "Lord's" is the adjective modifying "day" in English.

Is the problem you think English does not have adjectives?

Lord is a noun or verb:

lord — definition, examples, related words and more at Wordnik

All the words

www.wordnik.com

I believe the phrase κυριακῇ ἡμέρᾳ occurs only once in the New Testament, in Revelation 1.

 

[Leaf473]

...teaches that the Lord's Day (Sunday) is the Christian Sabbath, in keeping with the understanding that the moral law contained in the Ten Commandments stands eternally."

Another great example of affirming the 10 while redefining part of it.

Bible Gateway passage: 2 Timothy 2:14 - New American Standard Bible

An Unashamed Worker - Remind them of these things, and solemnly exhort them in the presence of God not to dispute about words, which is useless and leads to the ruin of the listeners.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Leaf473]

Do you ever wonder how it is that almost every Christian denomination on Earth affirms the continued *"unit of TEN" for Christians today and that they apply to all the world -- "the whole world" as Paul says in Rom 3:19?

How is it that Christianity is so united on this one point in your view?

I believe I already answered your question: I do not wonder.

Their reasoning is fairly simple. They affirm the 10 while reinterpreting it.

 

[Leaf473]

We can see the same thing with D.L. Moody's sermon on the TEN Commandments.
And again we can see it in the Baptist Confession of Faith section 19 in regard to the TEN Commandments
- and of course a bunch of other examples for those who have "all day".

The point is - they do not talk about "the NINE Commandments" or the DOWNSIZED Ten - but rather - the TEN.

SO I also affirm THE TEN.

But the difference is - I don't edit the TEN in any way. But I am still glad to see that they affirm the TEN all the while others spend a lot of time trying to either delete the TEN or at the least to downsize them to NINE

The 10 they affirm is
in practice
a different 10.
_____________
Edit: just noticed this, it looks like a haiku

 

[Leaf473]

A still obligatory TEN

CCC starting at 2052.

2068 The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christians and that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 The Second Vatican Council confirms: "The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments."

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/j...nts/hf_jp-ii_apl_05071998_dies-domini_en.html

Dies Domini pt 11

"the rest of the Sabbath..discloses something of the nuptial shape of the relationship which God wants to establish with the creature made in his image, by calling that creature to enter a pact of love".

Dies Domini pt 13 -

"the Sabbath ...is therefore rooted in the depths of God's plan. This is why unlike many other laws - it is not within the context of strictly cultic (Jewish) stipulations but within the Decalogue the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of moral life inscribed on the human heart!! In setting this commandment within the context of the basic structure of ethics, Israel and then the church declare that they consider it not just a matter of community religious discipline but a defining and indelible expression of our relationship to God, announced and expounded by biblical revelations.

Dies Domini pt 11 "if the first page of the book of Genesis presents God's work as an example for man, the same is true of God's rest - on the seventh day God finished his work which he had done therefore God blessed the seventh day and made it holy...it is a gaze which God casts upon all things, but in a special way upon man, the crown of creation. It is a gaze which already discloses something of the nuptial shape of the relationship God wants to establish with the creature made in his own image, by calling that creature to enter a pact of love."


Dies Domini

"God blessed the seventh day and made it holy" (Gn 2:3)

13. The Sabbath precept, which in the first Covenant prepares for the Sunday of the new and eternal Covenant, is therefore rooted in the depths of God's plan. This is why, unlike many other precepts, it is set not within the context of strictly cultic (Jewish) stipulations but within the Decalogue, the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of the moral life inscribed on the human heart. In setting this commandment within the context of the basic structure of ethics, Israel and then the Church declare that they consider it not just a matter of community religious discipline but a defining and indelible expression of our relationship with God, announced and expounded by biblical revelation. This is the perspective within which Christians need to rediscover this precept today. Although the precept may merge naturally with the human need for rest, it is faith alone which gives access to its deeper meaning and ensures that it will not become banal and trivialized.


CCC starting at 2052.

2068 The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christians and that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 The Second Vatican Council confirms: "The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments."

Dies Domini is a papal encyclical on the subject of Sunday and how it is regarded by tradition to be a holy day rooted in the 10 commandments as a continuation of the 4th commandment (numbered 3 by Roman Catholics).

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/j...nts/hf_jp-ii_apl_05071998_dies-domini_en.html


Dies Domini pt 11

"the rest of the Sabbath..discloses something of the nuptial shape of the relationship which God wants to establish with the creature made in his image, by calling that creature to enter a pact of love".

Dies Domini pt 13 -

"the Sabbath ...is therefore rooted in the depths of God's plan. This is why unlike many other laws - it is not within the context of strictly cultic (Jewish) stipulations but within the Decalogue the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of moral life inscribed on the human heart!! In setting this commandment within the context of the basic structure of ethics, Israel and then the church declare that they consider it not just a matter of community religious discipline but a defining and indelible expression of our relationship to God, announced and expounded by biblical revelations.


Dies Domini pt 11 "if the first page of the book of Genesis presents God's work as an example for man, the same is true of God's rest - on the seventh day God finished his work which he had done therefore God blessed the seventh day and made it holy...it is a gaze which God casts upon all things, but in a special way upon man, the crown
of creation. It is a gaze which already discloses something of the nuptial shape of the relationship God wants to establish with the creature made in his own image, by calling that creature to enter a pact of love."

First off, please do not alter my posts when you quote them.

Second, it's a reinterpreted Sabbath that they are affirming.

 

[Leaf473]

"...the practices of the Jewish Sabbath are gone..."

Dies Domini (May 31, 1998) | John Paul II

www.vatican.va

 

[Leaf473]

“We keep the eighth day [Sunday] with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead” (Letter of Barnabas 15:6–8 [A.D. 74])

What the Early Church Believed: Sabbath or Sunday?

Some religious organizations claim the Church "changed" the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday, but Scripture and Tradition reveal something else.

www.catholic.com

 

[BobRyan]

“We keep the eighth day [Sunday] with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead” (Letter of Barnabas 15:6–8 [A.D. 74])

What the Early Church Believed: Sabbath or Sunday?

Some religious organizations claim the Church "changed" the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday, but Scripture and Tradition reveal something else.

www.catholic.com

Do as you wish - I choose the Bible

 

[BobRyan]

"...the practices of the Jewish Sabbath are gone..."

hint - the Jews still have Sabbath, the Bible still has the Sabbath in it. Many Christians today still choose the Bible over making things up

No wonder almost every Christian denomination on Earth affirms the continued *"unit of TEN" for Christians today. (The very thing you have been opposing so far)

 

[BobRyan]

First off, please do not alter my posts when you quote them.

Please address the actual point made in my post that you reply to instead of simply ignoring the entire post and all its details given.
And if you suppose that I changed one of your words in a direct quote of you - please tells us from what word to what word - I do not recall doing that.

Second, it's a reinterpreted Sabbath that they are affirming.

No doubt they find a way to edit God's Word to fit some sort of tradition.

Is that "you" ??

Do we see "you" affirming all TEN of the Commandments on this board - only insisting on your edited-version of one of them??

Did you pick a lane yet??

 

[BobRyan]

The 10 they affirm is
in practice
a different 10.

Its the same ten - with one of the edited...
So are you saying that is "you" now? Did you pick that solution or are you still opposing them all - claiming all ten are deleted or are at least downsized to at least just nine?

Which lane did pick?

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said:
Do you ever wonder how it is that almost every Christian denomination on Earth affirms the continued *"unit of TEN" for Christians today and that they apply to all the world -- "the whole world" as Paul says in Rom 3:19?

How is it that Christianity is so united on this one point in your view?

I believe I already answered your question: I do not wonder.

Do you also insist on not answering?

Their reasoning is fairly simple. They affirm the 10 while reinterpreting it.

They edit 1... are you saying that is " also your view"? or are you just tossing things out that are not even your position still?yy

 

[BobRyan]

I believe the phrase κυριακῇ ἡμέρᾳ occurs only once in the New Testament, in Revelation 1.

True - but "Holy day of the Lord" is in scripture - Is 58:13 as the Sabbath.
"Son of Man is LORD of the Sabbath" is in scripture in Mark 2:27
And John's readers would know that.

So just as Luke does not tell his readers "and remember Sabbath is the 7th day of the week" in the book of Acts each time he mentions the Sabbath - so also John does not repeat what they were told about the "Holy day of the LORD" - when he mentions "the Lord's day" IN Rev 1:10

As stated many times so far.

The point remains

 

[BobRyan]

You're confusing this Convert's Catechism with the official Catechism of the Catholic Church.

No I am not. I quote from both sources.

 

[Leaf473]

Do as you wish - I choose the Bible

I also choose the Bible. I'm willing to look at how people who were contemporary with the apostles understood what the apostles and prophets wrote.

 

[Leaf473]

hint - the Jews still have Sabbath, the Bible still has the Sabbath in it. Many Christians today still choose the Bible over making things up

No wonder almost every Christian denomination on Earth affirms the continued *"unit of TEN" for Christians today. (The very thing you have been opposing so far)

My post that you are quoting is a quote of John Paul II in Dies Domini. That's one of the examples of the denominations affirming the 10.

I don't doubt that the denominations affirm the 10. They are affirming a reinterpreted 10, which is different from what observant Jews are keeping today.

 

[Leaf473]

Please address the actual point made in my post that you reply to instead of simply ignoring the entire post and all its details given.

I didn't ignore your entire post, I'm simply asking you not to modify things I said and then present them as a quotes of me.

 

[Leaf473]

No doubt they find a way to edit God's Word to fit some sort of tradition.

Yes, edit, or to use the words of John Paul II that you cite, reinterpret.

Is that "you" ??

Do we see "you" affirming all TEN of the Commandments on this board - only insisting on your edited-version of one of them??

I do not affirm that we are to keep the 10 as they are written, to the letter. Neither do the vast majority of Christians or denominations.

Did you pick a lane yet??

I affirm that loving your neighbor as yourself fulfills the entire law of Moses, including the 10.

I also affirm that seeking to grow the fruit of the Spirit while suppressing the works of the flesh is the best, most Christian way to live. Thanks for asking Did I answer your questions?

Bible Gateway passage: Galatians 5:19-23 - New International Reader's Version

The result of sin’s control in our lives is clear. It includes sexual sins, impure acts and wild living. It includes worshiping statues of gods and worshiping evil powers. It also includes hatred and fighting, jealousy and fits of anger. Sinful desire is interested only in getting ahead. It...

www.biblegateway.com