Col 2:16 is about not judging others

[BobRyan]

I have a lot of that sort of material from a number of published source of different denominations.

 

[BobRyan]

duplicate

 

[Valletta]

Convert's Catechism

Full text of "The convert's catechism of Catholic doctrine"

3. The Third Commandment.
Q. What is the Third Commandment?
A. The Third Commandment is: Remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day.

---------------------------50

Q. Which is the Sabbath day ?
A. Saturday is the Sabbath day.

Q. Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday ?
A. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea (A.D. 336), transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.

Q. Why did the Catholic Church substitute Sunday for Saturday?
A. The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday, because Christ rose from the dead on a Sunday, and the Holy Ghost descended upon the Apostles on a Sunday.

Q. By what authority did the Church substitute Sunday for Saturday
A. The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday by the plenitude of that divine power which Jesus Christ bestowed upon her.

Q. What does the Third Commandment command?
A. The Third Commandment commands us to sanctify Sunday as the Lord's Day.

Never heard of this convert's catechism. Actually, the Lord's Day, Sunday, is mentioned in the Bible long before this supposed council. That's when Catholic gathered to honor the resurrection of Our Lord. Send them a correction.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Never heard of this convert's catechism. Actually, the Lord's Day, Sunday, is mentioned in the Bible long before this supposed council. That's when Catholic gathered to honor the resurrection of Our Lord. Send them a correction.

There is no scripture that says the Lords Day is on Sunday, not one.

 

[Leaf473]

Indeed they affirm all ten -- but edit one as per man made tradition.

Yes, they edit as in reinterpret. So the 10 that they affirm are a reinterpreted 10.

Pope John Paul II in Dies Domini,
62. It is the duty of Christians therefore to remember that, although the practices of the Jewish Sabbath are gone, surpassed as they are by the "fulfilment" which Sunday brings, the underlying reasons for keeping "the Lord's Day" holy — inscribed solemnly in the Ten Commandments — remain valid, though they need to be reinterpreted in the light of the theology and spirituality of Sunday: "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy, as the Lord your God commanded you. Six days you shall labour, and do all your work; but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. Then you shall do no work, you, or your son, or your daughter, or your servant, or your maid, or your ox, or your ass, or any of your beasts, or the foreigner within your gates, that your servant and maid may rest as well as you. You shall remember that you were a servant in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out from there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God commanded that you keep the Sabbath day" (Dt 5:12-15). Here the Sabbath observance is closely linked with the liberation which God accomplished for his people.

A "fulfilled" 10.

________________
By the way, what denomination would you put this guy in?
IGNATIUS OF ANTIOCH
“Those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s day, on which also our life has sprung up again by him and by his death” (Letter to the Magnesians 9 [A.D. 110])

 

[Leaf473]

You may need to read more of their documents on the subject:

======================================================================
The Catholic Commentary on the Baltimore Catechism post Vatican II - argues this point --

1965 -- first published 1959

(from "The Faith Explained" by Leo Trese page 243

"we know that in the O.T it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day- which was observed as the Lord's day. that was the law as God gave it...'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...

The reason for changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...
nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church

Did you find that reference online? There are a lot of ellipses in your quote, I'd like to check it out

 

[Leaf473]

Convert's Catechism

Full text of "The convert's catechism of Catholic doctrine"

3. The Third Commandment.
Q. What is the Third Commandment?
A. The Third Commandment is: Remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day.

---------------------------50

Q. Which is the Sabbath day ?
A. Saturday is the Sabbath day.

Q. Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday ?
A. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea (A.D. 336), transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.

Q. Why did the Catholic Church substitute Sunday for Saturday?
A. The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday, because Christ rose from the dead on a Sunday, and the Holy Ghost descended upon the Apostles on a Sunday.

Q. By what authority did the Church substitute Sunday for Saturday
A. The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday by the plenitude of that divine power which Jesus Christ bestowed upon her.

Q. What does the Third Commandment command?
A. The Third Commandment commands us to sanctify Sunday as the Lord's Day.

Sounds like the 10 that the Catholic Church affirms is a "transferred" or "substituted" 10.

You had asked me,

Do you ever wonder how it is that almost every Christian denomination on Earth affirms the continued *"unit of TEN"...

and my answer is No, I don't wonder. The 10 that they affirm is a reinterpreted, transferred, and substituted 10.

 

[Leaf473]

Sounds like the 10 that the Catholic Church affirms is a "transferred" or "substituted" 10.

And if anyone's interested:
from a Catholic perspective, the Church has that authority because it is led by the Holy Spirit. It's interpretations of the scriptures are not man-made traditions.

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 16:19 - New American Standard Bible

I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.”

www.biblegateway.com

 

[BobRyan]

Sounds like the 10 that the Catholic Church affirms is a "transferred" or "substituted" 10.

you found no quote at all in my post about a "Transferred' or "Substituted 10". I guess we both know that.

You had asked me,

and my answer is No, I don't wonder. The 10 that they affirm is a reinterpreted, transferred, and substituted 10.

until you read my posts -- spelled out can for the reader here #611

From: National Catholic Register -- National Catholic Register. (EWTN)

“Though it’s true that Christians are no longer require to follow the Old Testament’s ceremonial obligations, we are still commanded to keep its moral requirements. God’s moral law is binding at all times and in all places and in all religious traditions.”



Catholic Catechism shows that all ten - the Decalogue are a single unit and form grave obligation for all mankind - to this very day.

Catechism of the Catholic Church - PART 3 SECTION 2


2076 By his life and by his preaching Jesus attested to the permanent validity of the Decalogue.

2077 The gift of the Decalogue is bestowed from within the covenant concluded by God with his people. God's commandments take on their true meaning in and through this covenant.

2078 In fidelity to Scripture and in conformity with Jesus' example, the tradition of the Church has always acknowledged the primordial importance and significance of the Decalogue.

2079 The Decalogue forms an organic unity in which each "word" or "commandment" refers to all the others taken together. To transgress one commandment is to infringe the whole Law (cf. Jas 2:10-11).

2080 The Decalogue contains a privileged expression of the natural law. It is made known to us by divine revelation and by human reason.

2081 The Ten Commandments, in their fundamental content, state grave obligations. However, obedience to these precepts also implies obligations in matter which is, in itself, light.

 

[Leaf473]

Never heard of this convert's catechism. Actually, the Lord's Day, Sunday, is mentioned in the Bible long before this supposed council. That's when Catholic gathered to honor the resurrection of Our Lord. Send them a correction.

Yep. Some will say that the Lord's day is the seventh day, but the Greek of the Book of Revelation and the Didache don't support that imo.

“But every Lord's day gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure.” (Didache 14 [A.D. 70])

Sabbath (The Lord’s Day) — Church Fathers

www.churchfathers.org

 

[BobRyan]

Catechism of the Catholic Church - PART 3 SECTION 2 - TEN COMMANDMENTS CHART

reads like this

You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.

You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain.

Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor, and do all your work; but the seventh day is a sabbath to the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your manservant, or your maidservant or your cattle, or the sojourner who is within your gates; for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and hallowed it.

Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land which the LORD your God gives you.

You shall not kill.

You shall not commit adultery.

You shall not steal.

You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his manservant, or his maidservant, or his ox, or his ass, or anything that is your neighbor's.

 

[BobRyan]

Yep. Some will say that the Lord's day is the seventh day, but the Greek of the Book of Revelation

not true

Here is Young's Literal translation of that greek text of Rev 1:10
10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's-day, and I heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, saying,

No such "pick a day" reference to it

 

[Leaf473]

...the Council of Laodicea (A.D. 336), transferred...

A. The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday...

you found no quote at all in my post about a "Transferred' or "Substituted 10". I guess we both know that.

It's based on your two quotes above.

 

[Leaf473]

until you read my posts -- spelled out can for the reader here #611

From: National Catholic Register -- National Catholic Register. (EWTN)

“Though it’s true that Christians are no longer require to follow the Old Testament’s ceremonial obligations, we are still commanded to keep its moral requirements. God’s moral law is binding at all times and in all places and in all religious traditions.”



Catholic Catechism shows that all ten - the Decalogue are a single unit and form grave obligation for all mankind - to this very day.

Catechism of the Catholic Church - PART 3 SECTION 2


2076 By his life and by his preaching Jesus attested to the permanent validity of the Decalogue.

2077 The gift of the Decalogue is bestowed from within the covenant concluded by God with his people. God's commandments take on their true meaning in and through this covenant.

2078 In fidelity to Scripture and in conformity with Jesus' example, the tradition of the Church has always acknowledged the primordial importance and significance of the Decalogue.

2079 The Decalogue forms an organic unity in which each "word" or "commandment" refers to all the others taken together. To transgress one commandment is to infringe the whole Law (cf. Jas 2:10-11).

2080 The Decalogue contains a privileged expression of the natural law. It is made known to us by divine revelation and by human reason.

2081 The Ten Commandments, in their fundamental content, state grave obligations. However, obedience to these precepts also implies obligations in matter which is, in itself, light.

No, my answer remains the same: I do not wonder.

It's fairly clear reasoning, to me. They see in the Ten Commandments moral laws. They do not see keeping the seventh day as a moral law. And they make it all match up by transferring or reinterpreting the 7th Day.

Peace, my man!

 

[Leaf473]

not true

Here is Young's Literal translation of that greek text of Rev 1:10
10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's-day, and I heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, saying,

No such "pick a day" reference to it,

Well, you can check it out for yourself. The problem is that κυριακῇ is an adjective, not a possessive. But there is no adjective form of Lord in English. So the closest even the most literal translations can come is Lord's. But the connection between the seventh day being the Lord's Day and the Lord's Day in Revelation isn't supported.

See how it says Adj-DFS underneath κυριακῇ here? It's an adjective.

Revelation 1:10 Interlinear: I was in the Spirit on the Lord's-day, and I heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, saying,

 

[BobRyan]

Well, you can check it out for yourself. The problem is that κυριακῇ is an adjective, not a possessive.

The problem is that κυριακῇ (|Lord’s) is an adjective for DAY -- and that point "alone" works for whatever you want to put in as the meaning.
Not exactly decisive since this is also true in English and is not what determines a difference - but clearly a detail either way.

So in the text Lord’s Day is the two terms: κυριακη ημερα
And we have those same two terms - an adjective and a noun - in the same way in English.

So let's look at what matters.

In the book of Acts we see a similar thing where Luke uses the term "Sabbath" in places like Acts 13 and Acts 18:4 but does not tell the reader that the Sabbath is the 7th day of the week. The reader has to go to places like Exodus 20 - outside of Luke's writing to find out that the weekly Sabbath in Acts - is in fact the 7th day of the week.

John is using a term his readers already know about in scripture as "The Holy Day of the Lord" Is 58:13 (Sabbath) and "Jesus is LORD of the Sabbath" Mark 2:28

But there is no adjective form of Lord in English.

Yes there is. "Lord's" is the adjective modifying "day" in English.

Is the problem you think English does not have adjectives?

 

[BobRyan]

No, my answer remains the same: I do not wonder.

It's fairly clear reasoning, to me. They see in the Ten Commandments moral laws.

Indeed - and they insist that the Sabbath commandment is still IN the TEN. (hence it is still - TEN)

So they list the Sabbath Commandment IN the TEN.

IT is in fact a "mortal sin" in Catholic teaching to not keep the Sabbath.

2168 The third commandment of the Decalogue recalls the holiness of the Sabbath: "The seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the LORD."92

List of Mortal Sins Every Catholic Should Know – St. Mary of the Seven Dolors

The Third Commandment, “Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy”

Deliberate failure of the Sunday obligation—The Christian Sunday (the Lord’s Day) celebrates the new life of the world born in Christ’s Resurrection. All humans have a duty, to praise God and give him thanks. Thus all Christians are bound to participate in the Mass, and must partake of the Eucharist at least on holy days of obligation. Deliberate failure to do this constitutes a grave sin (CCC 2181).

============= next

Sabbath desecration - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"Congregationalists, Presbyterians, Methodists, and Baptists, as well as many Episcopalians, have historically espoused the view of first-day Sabbatarianism, which teaches that the Lord's Day (Sunday) is the Christian Sabbath, in keeping with the understanding that the moral law contained in the Ten Commandments stands eternally."


========================

EWTN -- Catholic Website

From; How Should We Keep the Sabbath? | EWTN

How Should We Keep the Sabbath?

Author: Fr. William Saunders

HOW SHOULD WE KEEP THE SABBATH?

Fr. William Saunders

Q: I was wondering if you could comment about the true meaning and implications of keeping the Sabbath in our very complex and busy modern times.—A reader in McLean

A:
"The Third Commandment given by God to Moses clearly stated, "Remember to keep holy Sabbath day. Six days you may labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord, your God. No work may be done then either by you, or your son or daughter, or your male or female slave, or your beast, or by the alien who lives with you. In six days the Lord made the heavens and earth, the sea and all that is in them; but on the seventh day He rested. That is why the Lord has blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy" (Ex 20:8-11).

While the Sabbath commemorated God's day of rest during the seven-day creation account of Genesis, it was also sacred because of what God has done for His people when He liberated them from slavery in Egypt: "For remember that you too were once slaves in Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you from there with His strong hand and outstretched arm. That is why the Lord, your God, has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day" (Dt 5:15). Therefore, the Sabbath was not only one day of rest and refreshment for everyone, being mindful of the many blessings received through creation, but also a day of remembering the covenant He had made with His people through the Passover sacrifice and the giving of the Law at Mount Sinai. The Sabbath was indeed the Day of the Lord.

For Christians the "Sabbath" rest was transferred to the first day of the week—Sunday, the day Our Lord Jesus Christ rose from the dead. For us, Sunday marks the day of the new creation, when Christ conquered sin, darkness and death. Sunday marks the day of the new covenant when Christ, the High Priest who offered Himself as the unblemished Passover lamb of sacrifice on the altar of the cross, gave the promise of everlasting life. Therefore, Sunday is the fulfillment of the Sabbath of the Old Testament. St. Justin Martyr (d. 165) wrote, "Sunday, indeed, is the day on which we hold our common assembly because it is the first day on which God, transforming the darkness and matter, created the world; and our Savior, Jesus Christ, arose from the dead on the same day.

Despite our very complex and busy modern times, we must strive to keep the "Sabbath Day"—Sunday—holy. Our first priority is to worship God publicly by participating at holy Mass. Since the days of the Apostles, the Church community has gathered together on Sunday to attend Mass. The <Code of Canon Law> logically mandates, "On Sundays and other holy days of obligation the faithful are bound to participate in the Mass" (No. 1247). This obligation makes perfect sense. Following St. Thomas Aquinas' thought, we have a moral obligation to give visible, public and regular worship to the God who created all things, including ourselves; who has blessed us in many ways; and who saved us from sin. Just as we attend to our material and physical concerns—such as getting proper sleep, food, exercise and hygiene—we must attend to the well-being of our souls through prayer and public worship.

While this is a precept of our Church, we should consider it a privilege to attend Mass. We gather as a Body of Christ sharing a common unity of faith and baptism which overrides any ethnic, cultural or other difference. At Mass, we affirm our identity as a Roman Catholic Christian. We are nourished through the Word of God proclaimed in sacred Scripture and explicated by the priest. We are then plunged into the mystery of Christ's passion, death and resurrection, and nourished again through a sharing in His sacred Body and Blood in the holy Eucharist. When "Mass has ended" and we have given thanks, we then go on to our regular routine and our busy world, but we take Jesus with us. The ending really marks a beginning. The Mass becomes the launch-pad for the rest of the week.

I think that those who disregard the obligation of attending Sunday Mass for some frivolous reason or lame excuse either do not understand what they are missing or have their priorities out of order. God must come first "

 

[BobRyan]

Earlier I asked this question
=========================================================

Romans 3:19 is "in the law", so Paul may not necessarily mean the same thing as "under the law" in Galatians

Romans 3:19 says "UNDER THE LAW"

19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

...

Do you ever wonder how it is that almost every Christian denomination on Earth affirms the continued *"unit of TEN" for Christians today and that they apply to all the world -- "the whole world" as Paul says in Rom 3:19?

How is it that Christianity is so united on this one point in your view?

=================================

All TEN -- "The Decalogue" and it includes the Sabbath commandment -

Indeed - and they insist that the Sabbath commandment is still IN the TEN. (hence it is still - TEN)

So they list the Sabbath Commandment IN the TEN.


IT is in fact a "mortal sin" in Catholic teaching to not keep the Sabbath.

2168 The third commandment of the Decalogue recalls the holiness of the Sabbath: "The seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the LORD."92

2056 The word "Decalogue" means literally "ten words."11 God revealed these "ten words" to his people on the holy mountain. They were written "with the finger of God,"12 unlike the other commandments written by Moses.13 They are pre-eminently the words of God. They are handed on to us in the books of Exodus14 and Deuteronomy.15 Beginning with the Old Testament, the sacred books refer to the "ten words,"16 but it is in the New Covenant in Jesus Christ that their full meaning will be revealed.

2057 The Decalogue must first be understood in the context of the Exodus, God's great liberating event at the center of the Old Covenant. Whether formulated as negative commandments, prohibitions, or as positive precepts such as: "Honor your father and mother," the "ten words" point out the conditions of a life freed from the slavery of sin. The Decalogue is a path of life:

If you love the LORD your God, by walking in his ways, and by keeping his commandments and his statutes and his ordinances, then you shall live and multiply.17

This liberating power of the Decalogue appears, for example, in the commandment about the Sabbath rest, directed also to foreigners and slaves:

You shall remember that you were a servant in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out thence with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm.18

2081 The Ten Commandments, in their fundamental content, state grave obligations. However, obedience to these precepts also implies obligations in matter which is, in itself, light.

 

[BobRyan]

We can see the same thing with D.L. Moody's sermon on the TEN Commandments.
And again we can see it in the Baptist Confession of Faith section 19 in regard to the TEN Commandments
- and of course a bunch of other examples for those who have "all day".

The point is - they do not talk about "the NINE Commandments" or the DOWNSIZED Ten - but rather - the TEN.

SO I also affirm THE TEN.

But the difference is - I don't edit the TEN in any way. But I am still glad to see that they affirm the TEN all the while others spend a lot of time trying to either delete the TEN or at the least to downsize them to NINE

 

[BobRyan]

Never heard of this convert's catechism. Actually, the Lord's Day, Sunday, is mentioned in the Bible long before this supposed council. That's when Catholic gathered to honor the resurrection of Our Lord. Send them a correction.

You are going to "correct" the Catholic Catechism?
ok - so I am interested in how that will go.