WHY THE LORD'S DAY IS NOT SATURDAY

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

I cannot find any relevant sources about EOC or OOC keeping or honoring Sabbath. Anyway, the context was the early church.

The EO IS The Early Church! The EO of today is the direct descendant! Our first Bishops, our first being James in Jerusalem, were all Jewish until 135 AD.

 

[HIM]

The EO IS The Early Church! The EO of today is the direct descendant! Our first Bishops, our first being James in Jerusalem, were all Jewish until 135 AD.

I believe you but can you save me the footwork and post some resources please?

 

[trophy33]

Not so. It was stated You posted Gal. 5 out of context. Show you did not.

Thats not how it works. If you say its out of context, you prove it.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

I believe you but can you save me the footwork and post some resources please?

The Jerusalem Patriarchate has a listing of all the bishops since the first, which was James the Just. In 135 AD, gentile bishops (Greek) had to be installed due to the edict of Hadrian.

 

[trophy33]

The EO IS The Early Church! The EO of today is the direct descendant! Our first Bishops, our first being James in Jerusalem, were all Jewish until 135 AD.

Where did the apostle James say he is the first bishop of EO? And why are you "shouting" at me?

 

[guevaraj]

"It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery."
Gal 5:1

Brother, I have a thread dedicated to what Paul means when he uses the word law, unqualified, where he is referring to the law of Judaism that Jesus has set us free from by comparing Judaism's slavery to human rule in place of God's law to Hagar.

So Christ has truly set us free. Now make sure that you stay free, and don’t get tied up again in slavery to the law (of Judaism). (Galatians 5:1 NLT overlaid with commentary)​

Here is the evidence that when Paul uses the word law, unqualified, Paul is referring to the law of Judaism by comparing Judaism to Hagar.

Tell me, you who want to live under the law (the rules of Judaism that does not remove sin), do you know what the law actually says? (The law says what is sin) The Scriptures say that Abraham had two sons, one from his slave wife and one from his freeborn wife. The son of the slave wife was born in a human attempt to bring about the fulfillment of God’s promise (the promise to remove sin from our character). But the son of the freeborn wife was born as God’s own fulfillment of his promise. These two women serve as an illustration of God’s two covenants. The first woman, Hagar, represents Mount Sinai where people received the law that enslaved them (Judaism is enslaved in sin because they sabotaged God's law to not remove sin). And now Jerusalem is just like Mount Sinai in Arabia, because she and her children live in slavery (slavery to sin) to the law (added by the translators, not found in the original). But the other woman, Sarah, represents the heavenly Jerusalem. She is the free woman (free from sin), and she is our mother. As Isaiah said, “Rejoice, O childless woman, you who have never given birth! Break into a joyful shout, you who have never been in labor! For the desolate woman now has more children than the woman who lives with her husband!” And you, dear brothers and sisters, are children of the promise (the promise to remove sin from our character), just like Isaac. But you are now being persecuted by those who want you to keep the law (the rules of Judaism that does not remove sin), just as Ishmael, the child born by human effort, persecuted Isaac, the child born by the power of the Spirit. But what do the Scriptures say about that? “Get rid of the slave and her son, for the son of the slave woman will not share the inheritance with the free woman’s son.” So, dear brothers and sisters, we are not children of the slave woman; we are children of the free woman. (Galatians 4:21-31 NLT fixed and overlaid with commentary)​

Paul makes it clear in the following passage that he wants obedience to God and not obedience to sin. Sin is present in Judaism's human rules that sabotage God's laws to not remove sin, as made clear by Jesus in the next passage, where Judaism's human rules instead of God's laws "shut the door of the Kingdom of Heaven in people's faces".

Well then, since God’s grace has set us free from the law (of Judaism), does that mean we can go on sinning (lawlessness)? Of course not (don't misunderstand God's grace)! Don’t you realize that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey (sin or God)? You can be a slave to sin (lawlessness), which leads to death (like Judaism's example of sabotaging God's Ten Commandments to not remove sin), or you can choose to obey God (Eleven Commandments), which leads to righteous living (freedom from sin). Thank God (Jesus's many forgivenesses as our High Priest allowing us to grow in obedience through practice of the Eleven Commandments)! Once you were slaves of sin (lawlessness), but now you wholeheartedly obey this teaching we have given you (Eleven Commandments). Now you are free from your slavery to sin (when you obey God's Eleven Commandments), and you have become slaves to righteous living (obeying the Eleven Commandments). (Romans 6:15-18 NLT overlaid with commentary)​

Hagar's son to Abraham came from the human will and not from God's will to give Abraham a son through Hagar. Hagar is not the will of God expressed on Mount Sinai but the "human attempt" to fulfill the will of God expressed on Mount Sinai. Therefore, it is not God's laws that are tied to Hagar, but human rules found in Judaism that come from sinful "blind guides" to use laws to accomplish God's will expressed on Mount Sinai, that Jesus says in the following passage: "shut the door of the Kingdom of heaven in people's faces". It is not God's laws expressed on Mount Sinai that "shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people's faces", it is Judaism's human replacement rules for God's laws that "shut the door of the Kingdom of heaven in people's faces".

“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you shut the door of the Kingdom of Heaven in people’s faces. You won’t go in yourselves, and you don’t let others enter either. “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you cross land and sea to make one convert, and then you turn that person into twice the child of hell you yourselves are! “Blind guides! What sorrow awaits you! For you say that it means nothing to swear ‘by God’s Temple,’ but that it is binding to swear ‘by the gold in the Temple.’ Blind fools! Which is more important—the gold or the Temple that makes the gold sacred? And you say that to swear ‘by the altar’ is not binding, but to swear ‘by the gifts on the altar’ is binding. How blind! For which is more important—the gift on the altar or the altar that makes the gift sacred? When you swear ‘by the altar,’ you are swearing by it and by everything on it. And when you swear ‘by the Temple,’ you are swearing by it and by God, who lives in it. And when you swear ‘by heaven,’ you are swearing by the throne of God and by God, who sits on the throne. (Matthew 23:13-22 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[trophy33]

Brother, I have a thread dedicated to what Paul means when he uses the word law, unqualified, where he is referring to the law of Judaism that Jesus has set us free from by comparing Judaism's slavery to human rule in place of God's law to Hagar.

There is no "law of Judaism". Such term is non-existent in the whole Bible.

The covenant we are free from is the covenant made on Mt. Sinai that enslaved Israelis to follow/keep various ordinances of the Mosaic law.

"One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves..." Gal 4:24

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Where did the apostle James say he is the first bishop of EO? And why are you "shouting" at me?

In Acts 15 and 21 he was bishop in Jerusalem and made pronouncements regarding Church decisions. Eusebius records that Clement of Alexandria related, "This James, whom the people of old called the Just because of his outstanding virtue, was the first, as the record tells us, to be elected to the episcopal throne of the Jerusalem church. For they say that Peter and James and John after the ascension of our Saviour, as if also preferred by our Lord, strove not after honor, but chose James the Just bishop of Jerusalem." I am not yelling.

 

[trophy33]

In Acts 15 and 21 he was bishop in Jerusalem and made pronouncements regarding Church decisions. Eusebius records that Clement of Alexandria related, "This James, whom the people of old called the Just because of his outstanding virtue, was the first, as the record tells us, to be elected to the episcopal throne of the Jerusalem church. For they say that Peter and James and John after the ascension of our Saviour, as if also preferred by our Lord, strove not after honor, but chose James the Just bishop of Jerusalem." I am not yelling.

James was an authority in Jerusalem, yes. Not sure why to use wording like "elected to the episcopal throne", it sounds weird.

But its still not too related to the fact that the most of the early Church did not keep Sabbath. Christians from Jews in Jerusalem were quickly outnumbered by Pauline missionary travels across the Roman Empire, making disciples from various Gentile nations. The church in Jerusalem became more and more insignificant compared to the church in Rome. Its also useful to notice that the book of Acts begins in Jerusalem and ends in Rome.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

James was an authority in Jerusalem, yes. Not sure why to use wording like "elected to the episcopal throne", it sounds weird.

But its still not too related to the fact that the most of the early Church did not keep Sabbath. Christians from Jews in Jerusalem were quickly outnumbered by Pauline missionary travels across the Roman Empire, making disciples from various Gentile nations. The church in Jerusalem became more and more insignificant compared to the church in Rome. You can also notice that the book of Acts begins in Jerusalem and ends in Rome.

Yes, it begins in Jerusalem, that was my point. I did not use the wording, I quoted it to you.

 

[Leaf473]

Any longer and His body would have begun to decay, which would have broken the prophecy of David quoted by Peter in Acts 2:27

That's an interesting idea, and I'd never thought about it that way before.

Lazarus was dead 4 days, and he was decaying. But there was no prophecy about him.

Jesus is just as dead, but he rises again before his body starts to decay.

 

[Leaf473]

I am afraid that if you consume electricity, you cause somebody to work, anyway.

In our society, its practically impossible for work to totally stop for a day. Police, firefighters or healthcare aside, there must also be drivers for public transport, heating of homes, shops open for some emergency goods and services, gas stations open for those on the road etc.

But I agree that its important to have enough of rest, from both physical and mental activity. However, I do not think that God is somehow specifically honored by our inactivity.

It struck me the other day that if you buy groceries at 3:00 p.m. on Friday and use a credit card, very likely that credit card transaction will be processed that evening, which is on the Sabbath.

I agree, virtually impossible in our society to not cause someone else to work on the Sabbath.

 

[trophy33]

Yes, it begins in Jerusalem, that was my point. I did not use the wording, I quoted it to you.

If it seemed I defined the early church as only the first church in Jerusalem, then its not how I see it.

Even after the transformation of the majority of Christians from Jewish environment to Greek/Roman environment, its still the early church for me.

 

[trophy33]

It struck me the other day that if you buy groceries at 3:00 p.m. on Friday and use a credit card, very likely that credit card transaction will be processed that evening, which is on the Sabbath.

I agree, virtually impossible in our society to not cause someone else to work on the Sabbath.

Because modern government is obligated to provide necessary services to its citizens all the time (army, police, firefighters, transportation, banking services, healthcare services, telecommunication, housing services, energy, waste systems, water purifiers, banking and monetary services...) we "cause" millions of people to work simply by existing and living in a society.

Even if we sat at home in dark, not moving and not doing anything, we still "cause" the system around us to be ready for our needs.

 

[Leaf473]

FYI for those reading , this is not an SDA or scripture teaching but unique to this poster.

Just to be fair, I'm not aware of any scripture passage that talks about the Sabbath moving around the world and resetting at the international date line.

 

[Leaf473]

There are lies taught within professing churches, False teachings, lies are a sin. Sin separates us from Christ if we continue therein.

Absolutely! Now, the true church, the one that we don't want to cause division in, is it about 20 or 30 million strong? Or is it closer to about a billion?

 

[HIM]

The Jerusalem Patriarchate has a listing of all the bishops since the first, which was James the Just. In 135 AD, gentile bishops (Greek) had to be installed due to the edict of Hadrian.

Thanks that will give me something to look at.

 

[Leaf473]

There are numerous verses that tell us directly what has been fulfilled in Christ and what is to be. The Sabbath is not one of them.

Do those passages cover every law in the law of Moses?

Proverbs 2
...to turn our ears to wisdom, and apply our hearts to understanding.

 

[HIM]

Thats not how it works. If you say it’s out of context, you prove it.

Did not think you could but ok. I don’t like to cut and paste so it will take time to put it together. So with that if you respond to it please address the points rather than just posting an opinion without proving what is put forth is right or wrong. Because that is how that works.

 

[trophy33]

Did not think you could but ok. I don’t like to cut and paste so it will take time to put it together. So with that if you respond to it please address the points rather than just posting an opinion without proving what is put forth is right or wrong. Because that is how that works.

Keep it simple, one logical argument per post. If it will be too long, I will react to the first point and ignore the rest. This should be a conversation, not an exchange of long monologues.