WHY THE LORD'S DAY IS NOT SATURDAY

[trophy33]

God’s earthy Temple was modeled exactly after God’s Heavenly Temple Hebrews 9:24, where the Ten Commandments are Revelation 11:19

This is referring to God’s heavenly Temple and this verse is referring to the prayers of the saints. Revelation 8:3-4 which this scripture says the Lord will accept if we don’t defile His Sabbath.

If you are trying to spiritualize the text of Isaiah 56 regarding offerings, sacrifices, mountain, temple etc, then you must spiritualize the Sabbath mentioned there, too.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

If you are trying to spiritualize the text of Isaiah 56 regarding offerings, sacrifices, mountain, temple etc, then you must spiritualize the Sabbath mentioned there, too.

No I am follow the scripture definition to it.

Anyway, its hard to have a discussion when one uses their words and opinions instead of using scripture, so I’ll leave it as agree to disagree

 

[trophy33]

Anyway, its hard to discuss when one uses their words to argue with God’s Word

I am using my words to argue with your words.

Edit: its not ethical to go back to change your posts after I have quoted them in my reply. You did it with every single one.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I am using my words to argue with your words.

Edit: its not ethical to go back to change your posts after I have quoted them in my reply. You did it with every single one.

No, you are using your words to argue against the scriptures I posted and not once have you addressed the scriptures with a biblical argument. Our words are not equal to God’s Word.

There is no ethic violation on editing posts, I am on my bike working out and go back to edit my typos.

Anyway, if you would like to address any of my posts with a biblical argument, I may pop back in.

 

[trophy33]

No, you are using your words to argue against the scriptures I posted and not once have you addressed the scriptures with a biblical argument. Our words are not equal to God’s Word.

You are the one who must prove that Europeans are to keep Sabbath, because its the claim you are making. So far, your biblical texts were insufficient because they were addressed to Jews, only.

You then tried to spiritualize the text of Isaiah 56 and so make it for today, but you kept Sabbath mentioned there to be literal. It was a clear logical inconsistency on your side.

I am arguing against your words that the verses you posted are meant for Europeans. Therefore, not against the verses as such, but against your personal interpretation of those.

There is no ethic violation on editing posts, I am on my bike working out and go back to edit my typos.

Typo is when you write "Europeen" instead of "European". Adding/removing sentences, even paragraphs or changing the meaning of a sentence after the post was already quoted in a reply is not correcting typos. I cannot go to your old posts again and again, checking what you changed.

 

[trophy33]

Anyway, if you would like to address any of my posts with a biblical argument, I may pop back in.

This is how it is supposed to work:

1. You make some positive statement ("there are unicorns on the moon!")
2. You supply biblical arguments for your statement
3. I respond to your arguments, whether I see them valid or not and why

As there are no biblical texts saying that there are no unicorns on the moon, there is also no biblical text saying that Sabbath was not given to Europeans. Its too specific and Bible would have to be infinite to cover all such specific negative statements. Thats why you need to provide arguments for the positive statement.

Also, keep it simple - one argument per post. Posting dozen of verses in one post (or even going back to your past posts and changing it at will) is just a distraction, because its very easy to post random coordinates and texts, but much more time consuming to answer them properly, after considering their proper biblical context. If you will ignore it, I will simply respond to the first one and ignore the rest.

 

[prodromos]

Brother, happy Sabbath, which started this Friday April 7, 2023 at 12:02 am EDT!

The Sabbath begins at sundown on a Friday evening, not at midnight.

 

[Davy]

We do not live under the Old Testament.

You mean 'old covenant', or Old Testament Books?

 

[trophy33]

You mean 'old covenant', or Old Testament Books?

It intersects with each other. The old covenant is written in the old testament books and the old testament books are written during the old covenant era.

 

[SeventhFisherofMen]

But if he was buried late in the day on Friday he would have risen late in the day on Monday. Jesus made it absolutely clear that he would be in the 'grave' for 72 hours.

There is no biblical evidence of Sunday being consecrated as "The Lord's Day", or for any special purpose for that matter.

The Lord's Day, or Day of the Lord, is when Christ returns, and brings 'smoke' (hurts people and breaks stuff).

Friday-day 1
Saturday-day 2
Sunday- day 3 rose again.

When we get paid on the 1st or the 15th or the 31st day of the month we don't wait until the full end of the 24 hours of that day to get paid do we? So too did Jesus not wait for the full 24 hours of the 3rd day to be raised from the dead. I rest my case

 

[SeventhFisherofMen]

...Because that's reserved for the Sabbath.

Comments and criticisms are welcomed.

I been following Sunday as The Lords Day for about 10 years now and i have no regrets.

People who speak against Sunday as The Lords Day act amazed when people point out Sunday has been honored as the day of worship in the Christian Church for thousands of years and act like they have some new hidden knowledge about what day we REALLY should worship God on.

 

[Davy]

It intersects with each other. The old covenant is written in the old testament books and the old testament books are written during the old covenant era.

I know that, which is not really what I was asking, because there is a major difference between the 'old covenant' and the Old Testament, which means the Books of the Old Testament which in the Books of the prophets, there is still much future prophecy.

 

[trophy33]

I know that, which is not really what I was asking, because there is a major difference between the 'old covenant' and the Old Testament, which means the Books of the Old Testament which in the Books of the prophets, there is still much future prophecy.

There are some prophecies about the new covenant in the Old Testament books, but I am not sure what you are asking... We live in the new covenant, therefore the prophecies about the "future" new covenant are not future for us, for us its past. It was future for the old covenant people, though.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I been following Sunday as The Lords Day for about 10 years now and i have no regrets.

People who speak against Sunday as The Lords Day act amazed when people point out Sunday has been honored as the day of worship in the Christian Church for thousands of years and act like they have some new hidden knowledge about what day we REALLY should worship God on.

Are just supposed to ignore what God said about His holy day in scripture and follow the traditions of man over the Word of God? Jesus warns us of this very thing, quoting directly from the Ten Commandments. Matthew 15:3-9

Which day does God claim as His in His Word from the beginning (Creation) to the end (New Heaven/ New Earth)?

God not only stated His day clearly, He gives us the reason why.

Genesis 2 Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. 2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

Exodus 20:9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
Exodus 20:10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God

Mark 2:28 Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath.”

Isaiah 58:13 “If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord honorable,

Isaiah 66:23 And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.

God deemed all other days as working days except for His seventh day Sabbath. The first day is the day man deemed holy for God, not what God deemed holy. We either follow God and His Word or follow man...the creation, not Creator.

 

[SeventhFisherofMen]

Are just supposed to ignore what God said about His holy day in scripture and follow the traditions of man over the Word of God? Jesus warns us of this very thing, quoting directly from the Ten Commandments. Matthew 15:3-9

Which day does God claim as His in His Word from the beginning (Creation) to the end (New Heaven/ New Earth)?

God not only stated His day clearly, He gives us the reason why.

Genesis 2 Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. 2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

Exodus 20:9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
Exodus 20:10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God

Mark 2:28 Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath.”

Isaiah 58:13 “If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord honorable,

Isaiah 66:23 And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.

That is old testament, and this old covenant is spoken of in Hebrews 8:13 "By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear."
, you have to read the Bible as a whole and not pick and choose only old testament scripture alone to live by. We cannot ignore the new testament, otherwise i will ask are you following all 613 commandments? Immediately you will say no purely from the sacrificial aspect, but Jesus did away with it.

We can look at the example of Matthew 8:4, "Then Jesus said to him, 'See that you don't tell anyone. But go, show yourself to the priest and offer the gift Moses commanded, as a testimony to them.'"

Now we see Jesus asking someone to obey sacrificial law, while He is alive, even though when He rises from the dead these will no longer be followed and that is confirmed by Paul in his new testament writings. Using your same logic you would say we still have to do what Moses commanded because Jesus said to do so when He was alive.

Why then, though you do not follow sacrificial law that Jesus encouraged when He was alive, do you ask yourself and others to follow Old Testament Sabbath day law when a new covenant has been made making the Old one obsolete? (Hebrews 8:13 "By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.")

Please respond to what i wrote and not re-copy and paste and quote things you've mentioned in past arguments of the same topic, this is a serious question and i want to know your genuine response rather than a ready made list of verses you've used to convince yourself we need to follow old testament law. Because we need to be willing to change what we believe if we are wrong, that's part of being a true believer.

 

[prodromos]

Genesis 2 Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. 2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

God is Spirit and does not need rest. Rest is something which pertains to the flesh and the Church recognised that this was pointing forward to when God would rest from all His work in the tomb on the Sabbath, then He would subsequently rise on the eighth day which the Church (having been vested by Christ with the authority to bind and loose) called the Lord's day.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

That is old testament, and this old covenant is spoken of in Hebrews 8:13 "By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear."
, you have to read the Bible as a whole and not pick and choose only old testament scripture alone to live by. We cannot ignore the new testament, otherwise i will ask are you following all 613 commandments? Immediately you will say no purely from the sacrificial aspect, but Jesus did away with it.

We can look at the example of Matthew 8:4, "Then Jesus said to him, 'See that you don't tell anyone. But go, show yourself to the priest and offer the gift Moses commanded, as a testimony to them.'"

Now we see Jesus asking someone to obey sacrificial law, while He is alive, even though when He rises from the dead these will no longer be followed and that is confirmed by Paul in his new testament writings. Using your same logic you would say we still have to do what Moses commanded because Jesus said to do so when He was alive.

Why then, though you do not follow sacrificial law that Jesus encouraged when He was alive, do you ask yourself and others to follow Old Testament Sabbath day law when a new covenant has been made making the Old one obsolete? (Hebrews 8:13 "By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.")

Please respond to what i wrote and not re-copy and paste and quote things you've mentioned in past arguments of the same topic, this is a serious question and i want to know your genuine response rather than a ready made list of verses you've used to convince yourself we need to follow old testament law. Because we need to be willing to change what we believe if we are wrong, that's part of being a true believer.

It is a serious topic I agree, which is why its always surprising so many scriptures go unaddressed. Like the very first one I posted where Jesus condemns those who keep traditions, over the commandants of God quoting right from the Ten Commandments Matthew 15:3-9 that we cannot add or subtract from. Deut 4:2 Despite peoples objection to the Sabbath commandment is it still one of God's holy commandments and there is no scripture that says we can break God's commandments. The covenant changed (agreement) not God's laws as He writes His laws in the hearts and minds of His people in the New Covenant instead of deleting them. Hebrews 8:10 Hebrews 10:16 Jer 33:34

The ordinances and sacrificial system ended in the New Covenant Hebrews 10:1-10 Col 2:14 and Jesus is now our High Priest so we can go directly to Him instead of an earthy priest. There is no scripture in all of God's Word that we can break any of His commandments and Jesus kept them including the Sabbath and is our example to follow.

I find it interesting that no one argues with scripture on Sunday-keeping, only attacking God's holy Sabbath day that He spoke and He wrote. This should be concerning.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

God is Spirit and does not need rest. Rest is something which pertains to the flesh and the Church recognised that this was pointing forward to when God would rest from all His work in the tomb on the Sabbath, then He would subsequently rise on the eighth day which the Church (having been vested by Christ with the authority to bind and loose) called the Lord's day.

Agreed but God rested as the example for man as we are created in His image to follow Him, not do our own thing.

I do not buy into the theory that Jesus gave authority to man to change any of God's commandments especially when there is strict instructions to not add or subtract from His commandments. Deut 4:2 and consequences for doing so Proverbs 30:5-6 Once God blesses something like He did the Sabbath man cannot reverse Numbers 23:20 and there is no light outside of God's Word when we start changing it. Isaiah 8:20

God's law is perfect Psalms 19:7 and you cannot improve on perfection and cannot improve on what God personally wrote and personally spoke and said man thinks they can.

Anyway, I need to run for now.

God bless.

 

[SeventhFisherofMen]

It is a serious topic I agree, which is why its always surprising so many scriptures go unaddressed. Like the very first one I posted where Jesus condemns those who keep traditions, over the commandants of God quoting right from the Ten Commandments Matthew 15:3-9 that we cannot add or subtract from. Deut 4:2 Despite peoples objection to the Sabbath commandment is it still one of God's holy commandments and there is no scripture that says we can break God's commandments. The covenant changed (agreement) not God's laws as He writes His laws in the hearts and minds of His people in the New Covenant instead of deleting them. Hebrews 8:10 Hebrews 10:16 Jer 33:34

The ordinances and sacrificial system ended in the New Covenant Hebrews 10:1-10 Col 2:14 and Jesus is now our High Priest so we can go directly to Him instead of an earthy priest. There is no scripture in all of God's Word that we can break any of His commandments and Jesus kept them including the Sabbath and is our example to follow.

I find it interesting that no one argues with scripture on Sunday-keeping, only attacking God's holy Sabbath day that He spoke and He wrote. This should be concerning.

I'm not attacking Saturday, so i hope you take back that statement that i was. Also it is interesting that you acknowledge the sacrificial law as being done away with in Hebrews, but you didn't address my scripture Hebrews 8:13 "By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear."

The old is obsolete, and you are trying so hard to hold onto the old. The Lords day is mentioned and has been mentioned to you countless times, i've seen you comment and defend Saturday Sabbath many times, but i don't know what more to say. We know Jesus rose from the dead on Sunday, we know people gathered together on Sunday, and we know that The Lords day was an actual day, if you cannot see these as showing Sunday as the new day of rest under the New Covenant then nothing i say will convince you, you just have to be led by The Holy Spirit to what is true.

While i do commend your zeal, i wish you weren't so set on this idea we have to follow Saturday, completely ignoring the fact that The Lord's day is Sunday.

 

[guevaraj]

The Sabbath begins at sundown on a Friday evening, not at midnight.

Brother, the Sabbath that has been kept in Jerusalem since Joshua, Jesus corrected through Paul in Hebrews! The other "day" Paul tells us of in the following passage is not Sunday, but a fixed Sabbath in the time zone of creation in Eden. The Sabbath is what God named His rest on the seventh day of creation in Eden and not what He named the seventh day of the week. The Sabbath in Jerusalem falls half a day before the seventh day of the week in Jerusalem, because the Sabbath is separate from the week everywhere besides the site of creation in Eden.

So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God. So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.” Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God. For all who have entered into God’s rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. So let us do our best to enter that rest. But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall. (Hebrews 4:6-11 NLT)​

God established the days from morning to morning, in the special case of the first day from first light to light again in the morning and subsequent days from morning to morning.

Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. And God saw that the light was good. Then he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day” and the darkness “night.” And evening passed and MORNING came, marking the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NLT)​

Every translation has wrongly assumed that God's expression: "the first of the Sabbaths" refers to Sunday when referring to Saturday, another way of referring to the seventh day of the creation week that we call Saturday.

long after the Sabbath (evening), as it dawns beyond Saturday (morning), came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary, to see the tomb. (Mathew 28:1, my own translation)​

What is corrected in the book of Hebrews is the assumption of the Sabbath being the same as the seventh day of the week since Joshua, that Jesus corrects through Paul in the message of Hebrews. There can only be one date line in everyone's background according to the Bible's common origin for all human beings as descendants of Adam and Eve. A date line shared by everyone from the beginning is at our origin in Eden, where God established the week.

So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God. So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.” Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God. For all who have entered into God’s rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. So let us do our best to enter that rest. But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall. (Hebrews 4:6-11 NLT)​

The date line is where the change from one day to another takes place, inconsistent with the rotation of the earth. Inconsistent with the rotation of the earth, the date changes on the other side of Jerusalem.

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge