Is Calvinism a heresy?

[John Mullally]

I'm amazed that you have not yet used 2 Pet 3:9 which most like yourself rip out of context. You need to ask yourself if God also sincerely desires to save those He justly casts into Hell? Does God do all whatever He pleases to do (Psalm 115:3, 135:6) or is He a slave to the will of man?

Calvinists maintain that the "everyone" in 2nd Peter 3:9 is just about Calvinism’s elect. Why does Peter say "everyone" if he meant "some", "you", or "elect" - don't you think Peter knows what he is talking about. Ezekiel 18:23 also shows that God is patient toward the perishing, giving time and opportunity to repent, demonstrating that He would rather have it that they turn back to Him. Contrast what 2 Peter 3:9 and Ezekiel 18:23 says with Calvin' unbiblical claim that God predestines some to the horrors of hell before they are even born in order to get glory for Himself.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.​

“…individuals are born, who are doomed from the womb to certain death, and are to glorify him by their destruction.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 6)​

​

God is not dishonored by us claiming His promises.

I preach the Gospel to everyone I can because God has commanded me to love all, and the greatest love I can show anyone besides laying down my life for them is to share with them the indescribable gift of God in His holy Gospel which proclaims that salvation belongs to the Lord and not men!

If you preach the Gospel like Peter did in Acts 2, you will promise salvation (forgiveness of sin and receiving the Holy Spirit) to those who repent and are baptized. I don't know of a Gospel (which means good news) that does not proclaim the love of God (John 3:16) and entreat people to respond (Acts 2:36-41).

Acts 2:36 “Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.” 37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” 38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.” 40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.​

 

[John Mullally]

Does God love those He justly casts into Hell which is in turn are cast into the Lake of Fire which is the Second Death?

God wants all to be saved freely, which He accomplishes through a well-meant offer of the gospel.

1 Timothy 2: 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.​

​

Ezekiel 18:23 Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign Lord. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?​

​

People are cast into Hell because they are judged for sin - which is unnecessary because Christ atoned for sin, but that atonement is only received through faith.

John 3:14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”​

It seems that you, like the wicked, think that God is altogether like yourself (Psalm 50:21).

No need to make it personal.

 

[jameslouise]

I reworded my post to add that "No one is in Christ from the foundation of the world"

Yeh i agree with you again mostly , but to be clear are you saying that God 'prophetically' chose us before the Genesis 6 days- 'visualizing' a time after we accepted Christ and were in Christ? What exactly is God choosing then?
I do have an answer to this, But I want to be clear of your stance first.

Can you please give me the definition of what the image of God is?

Yes, an aspect of it is:
Revelation from Kat Kerr:Body, spirit and soul to be correspond with Jesus, God the Father and The Holy Spirit respectively-the Triune God.
My own view by extension And when saved, a base spirit from God the Father, indwelt with Jesus and The Holy Spirit-the three in one God
WHAT AN EXALTED PRIVILEGE!
Revelation form Robin Bullock: Just to throw something else in there to really challenge orthodoxy, I think it was Satan being given a vision of man's design that helped tip him over the edge. He wanted to be 'like the most high' too as man is designed 'like the most high-in his image'. If you think about it Satan cannot be God, that's ridiculous,he knows that, it's 'in his image' he wanted too.
I think the Hebrews 2 and Psalm 8 are describing Satan in Heaven's courts moaning about man.

Who are you to say the angels don't have something of the image of God as well as we. We know we were made in His image, but we don't know they weren't, do we? After all, they are called "sons of God", and sons bear the image of their father

Revelation from Robin D Bullock
Angels are made in 'an image' of God's Holiness
Man is made in 'an image' of God's love

The doctrine of sovereign election that drips from just about every page of Scripture and that you choose to continue to ignore is itself proof that God decreed all things that come to pass, otherwise the promise below would not be valid

@maxamir -If I can show you scripture that unequivocally said man and man alone has choice and authority over his own salvation would you change your stance?

 

[John Mullally]

Yeh i agree with you again mostly , but to be clear are you saying that God 'prophetically' chose us before the Genesis 6 days- 'visualizing' a time after we accepted Christ and were in Christ? What exactly is God choosing then?
I do have an answer to this, But I want to be clear of your stance first.

If you just examine the first half of Ephesians 1:4 you might think God is selecting which individuals will be saved. If you pull back to Ephesians 1:4-5 you will see that God intends to adopt us - where per Ephesians 1:1 the "us" is the "faithful in Christ". If you pull back and examine Ephesians 1:1-14 as a whole, you will see everything God intends for the "faithful in Christ".

 

[John Mullally]

View attachment 329824

The "ought, but can't" is Calvin's "doctrine of Total Inability". For Calvinists who wish to promote a doctrine of Total Inability, there is good and bad news. The good news is that it really is a doctrine found in the Bible. The bad news is that it reflects the doctrine of unrepentant Israel, which doctrine, God repudiated:

Jeremiah 18:11-13: “So now then, speak to the men of Judah and against the inhabitants of Jerusalem saying, “Thus says the Lord, ‘Behold, I am fashioning calamity against you and devising a plan against you. Oh turn back, each of you from his evil way, and reform your ways and your deeds.’” But they will say, “It’s hopeless! For we are going to follow our own plans, and each of us will act according to the stubbornness of his evil heart.” Therefore thus says the Lord, “Ask now among the nations, who ever heard the like of this? The virgin of Israel has done a most appalling thing.”’​

 

[maxamir]

Calvinists maintain that the "everyone" in 2nd Peter 3:9 is just about Calvinism’s elect. Why does Peter say "everyone" if he meant "some", "you", or "elect" - don't you think Peter knows what he is talking about. Ezekiel 18:23 also shows that God is patient toward the perishing, giving time and opportunity to repent, demonstrating that He would rather have it that they turn back to Him. Contrast what 2 Peter 3:9 and Ezekiel 18:23 says with Calvin' unbiblical claim that God predestines some to the horrors of hell before they are even born in order to get glory for Himself.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.​

“…individuals are born, who are doomed from the womb to certain death, and are to glorify him by their destruction.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 6)​

​

God is not dishonored by us claiming His promises.

If you preach the Gospel like Peter did in Acts 2, you will promise salvation (forgiveness of sin and receiving the Holy Spirit) to those who repent and are baptized. I don't know of a Gospel (which means good news) that does not proclaim the love of God (John 3:16) and entreat people to respond (Acts 2:36-41).

Acts 2:36 “Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.” 37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” 38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.” 40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.​

Do you not yet realise that all the epistles are written to the saints and they are those in this verse to whom the epistle is written that God is not willing should perish? Why do you keep promoting a God who's will is frustrated by the will of man?

2Pe 1:1 Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ

The Gospel is not an invitation but a proclamation to be given to all that God has secured salvation for His people and all are commanded to respond to it with repentance and faith which God freely grants to those He loves. If anyone dies, never repenting and believing then they will know for all eternity that they will glorify His perfectly good and holy justice.

 

[maxamir]

God wants all to be saved freely, which He accomplishes through a well-meant offer of the gospel.

1 Timothy 2: 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.​

​

Ezekiel 18:23 Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign Lord. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?​

​

People are cast into Hell because they are judged for sin - which is unnecessary because Christ atoned for sin, but that atonement is only received through faith.

John 3:14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”​

No need to make it personal.

It is indeed true that all those who believe on Christ have eternal life which is the fruit of salvation but not a condition unto salvation, otherwise it would not be a gift of grace and men would have something in which to boast contrary to 1 Cor 1:28-29

God indeed, has no pleasure in the death of the wicked who repent which is the context of Ezekiel 18.

Your description of the Gospel being a well meant offer is based upon salvation being universal and dependent upon the will of man which Scripture overwhelmingly refutes and is also refuted in the many historical quotes from theologians below.

Quotes Against the Well-Meant Offer

Did the apostle Paul accept the well meant offer when God threw him to the ground on his way to Damascus?

 

[maxamir]

Yeh i agree with you again mostly , but to be clear are you saying that God 'prophetically' chose us before the Genesis 6 days- 'visualizing' a time after we accepted Christ and were in Christ? What exactly is God choosing then?
I do have an answer to this, But I want to be clear of your stance first.

Yes, an aspect of it is:
Revelation from Kat Kerr:Body, spirit and soul to be correspond with Jesus, God the Father and The Holy Spirit respectively-the Triune God.
My own view by extension And when saved, a base spirit from God the Father, indwelt with Jesus and The Holy Spirit-the three in one God
WHAT AN EXALTED PRIVILEGE!
Revelation form Robin Bullock: Just to throw something else in there to really challenge orthodoxy, I think it was Satan being given a vision of man's design that helped tip him over the edge. He wanted to be 'like the most high' too as man is designed 'like the most high-in his image'. If you think about it Satan cannot be God, that's ridiculous,he knows that, it's 'in his image' he wanted too.
I think the Hebrews 2 and Psalm 8 are describing Satan in Heaven's courts moaning about man.


Revelation from Robin D Bullock
Angels are made in 'an image' of God's Holiness
Man is made in 'an image' of God's love

@maxamir -If I can show you scripture that unequivocally said man and man alone has choice and authority over his own salvation would you change your stance?

At least you seem to acknowledge that those who are not indwelt with Christ do not have His image.

Please read the article below and then let me know what your definition is.

The True Image of God

Man is indeed responsible for his own fate and those who die never being granted the gift of faith are not promised eternal life. When you come to understand who man truly is then you will realise that he can do nothing to save himself and his only hope is grace.

 

[maxamir]

The "ought, but can't" is Calvin's "doctrine of Total Inability". For Calvinists who wish to promote a doctrine of Total Inability, there is good and bad news. The good news is that it really is a doctrine found in the Bible. The bad news is that it reflects the doctrine of unrepentant Israel, which doctrine, God repudiated:

Jeremiah 18:11-13: “So now then, speak to the men of Judah and against the inhabitants of Jerusalem saying, “Thus says the Lord, ‘Behold, I am fashioning calamity against you and devising a plan against you. Oh turn back, each of you from his evil way, and reform your ways and your deeds.’” But they will say, “It’s hopeless! For we are going to follow our own plans, and each of us will act according to the stubbornness of his evil heart.” Therefore thus says the Lord, “Ask now among the nations, who ever heard the like of this? The virgin of Israel has done a most appalling thing.”’​

The whole foundation of Calvinism as you call it, is simply based upon the true condition of man.

If man is truly totally depraved as the Scriptures declare, then he can not do anything to save himself, including choosing God who by his fallen nature he hates.

Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Rom 3:10 As it is written: "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NO, NOT ONE;
Rom 3:11 THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS; THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS AFTER GOD.
Rom 3:12 THEY HAVE ALL TURNED ASIDE; THEY HAVE TOGETHER BECOME UNPROFITABLE; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, NO, NOT ONE."

Joh 15:16 You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.

 

[John Mullally]

Do you not yet realise that all the epistles are written to the saints and they are those in this verse to whom the epistle is written that God is not willing should perish? Why do you keep promoting a God who's will is frustrated by the will of man?

Paul, Peter, John, and James wrote their Epistles to believers (either churches or individual believers). In viewing the English translations of those Epistles, I take terms like "us", "we", and "you" as addressing believers. And I take terms like "world", "all men", and "everyone" as addressing all humanity - with the caveat that "world" sometimes means just the "ungodly". That works in general for non-Calvinist Evangelicals, but not for Calvinists who commonly treat many phrases translated as "world", "all men", and "everyone" to mean the elect, some people, or all types of people in order to preserve their doctrine. For example, when most Calvinists read John 3:16, they see "For God so loved the elect" whereas non-Calvinists see "For God so loved all humanity". You did this in Post 686 to John 3:16 and in Post 676 to 2 Peter 3:9. It is also commonly done by Calvinists to 1 Timothy 2:4, 1 Timothy 2:6, 1 John 2:2, and Hebrews 2:9. This is a significant theological challenge for Calvinists.

The Calvinist systematic is missing from the New Testament, such as any mention of an Irresistible Grace as the solution for the unsaved to be able to receive the gospel. Jesus never said that God had to first give people spiritual life in order to be able to come to Him, but rather that people must come to Him to obtain “life.” (John 5:40) Jesus and His apostles declared things no Calvinist would ever say, such as God having so loved the “world” that He gave it a Savior, Jesus (John 3:16), who tasted death for “everyone” (Hebrews 2:9), who for His part desires “all men to be saved” (1 Timothy 2:4), “not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.” (2 Peter 3:9) If Calvinism was true, then the Bible-writers would have been careless in their words, or intentionally trying to deceive—something no Christian would accept as true.

2Pe 1:1 Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ

Although God desires all people be saved, we are only included "In Christ" when we believe.

1 Timothy 2:3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.​

Ephesians 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit.​

​

John 3:14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”​

The Gospel is not an invitation but a proclamation to be given to all that God has secured salvation for His people and all are commanded to respond to it with repentance and faith which God freely grants to those He loves. If anyone dies, never repenting and believing then they will know for all eternity that they will glorify His perfectly good and holy justice.

In Mark 16 when Jesus commands his disciples to preach the Gospel he includes saying that those who believe and are baptized will be saved. That shows that proclaiming the Gospel includes issuing an invitation to be saved.

Mark 16:15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.​

​

And in the first Gospel presentation after Mark 16 (in Acts 2:36-41) we see that invitation being made, Peter promises salvation to those who repent and are baptized.

 

[John Mullally]

At least you seem to acknowledge that those who are not indwelt with Christ do not have His image.

Please read the article below and then let me know what your definition is.

The True Image of God

Man is indeed responsible for his own fate and those who die never being granted the gift of faith are not promised eternal life. When you come to understand who man truly is then you will realise that he can do nothing to save himself and his only hope is grace.

Your link is pure Calvinist doctrine and I am not going to waste my time tearing it down. Concerning your implication that faith is a gift that God only gives to his favorites (i.e. the elect), Paul says that faith comes by hearing the word of God (Romans 10:17) - and we all choose what we listen to. In Jesus's ministry, Jesus stressed the importance of what he termed "your faith" in the healed - which implies that faith is something that is influenced by the individual.

In Acts 2:38-39, Peter promises salvation to those who repent and are baptized. We can claim that promise. Sadly, many won't and will spend a lifetime of pushing that Gospel out their mind.

 

[John Mullally]

The whole foundation of Calvinism as you call it, is simply based upon the true condition of man.

If man is truly totally depraved as the Scriptures declare, then he can not do anything to save himself, including choosing God who by his fallen nature he hates.

Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Rom 3:10 As it is written: "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NO, NOT ONE;
Rom 3:11 THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS; THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS AFTER GOD.
Rom 3:12 THEY HAVE ALL TURNED ASIDE; THEY HAVE TOGETHER BECOME UNPROFITABLE; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, NO, NOT ONE."

Joh 15:16 You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.

With their Total Depravity doctrine, Calvinists are engaging in extra-biblical, logical deduction. Their goal, as you have demonstrated in Post 689, is to portray mankind as being evil as Satan, and then ask, “How could such a person ever freely receive Christ? They can’t. Hence, the only thing left is an "Irresistible Grace” that transforms the Elect from Totally Depraved unbelievers into believers. However, there is no grace listed in the Bible as being "Irresistible" - as grace can be resisted. Acts 7:51 indicates that the Holy Spirit is commonly resisted.

Saying that mankind does not seek God (Romans 3:10-12) on its own is not proof that one cannot reply or respond positively to a God who seeks to save the lost. Moreover, pointing out that mankind are enemies of God, does not mean that we cannot confess our fallen state and reply to His message of reconciliation. There is nothing about being an enemy that implies or necessitates an inability to be reconciled to your enemy, just like there’s nothing about being a slave to sin which implies that you’re incapable of admitting that you’re enslaved when confronted. Just because you are a slave to sin, doesn’t mean that you cannot respond to our mighty God who offers to free you.

 

[jameslouise]

@maxamir -If I can show you scripture that unequivocally said man and man alone has choice and authority over his own salvation would you change your stance?

@maxamir You do not seem to have answered this?

At least you seem to acknowledge that those who are not indwelt with Christ do not have His image.

With respect you are slightly misquoting me, 'they do not have another layer of 'in his image' would be a better summary of what I said.

Please read the article below and then let me know what your definition is.

I read the article and I see no scripture in it that so tightens or so limits or exclusively says what 'in his image' means which seems to be your stance. Clearly a body, spirit and soul, to correspond with Jesus, God the Father and The Holy Spirit is 'in his image'-the triune God. After salvation indwelt with Jesus and The Holy Spirit in a base spirit from God the Father, The three in one God-again 'in his image'. A third layer we are individually conformed to Christ too- our base spirit and all of our gifts-conformed to the image of Christ.
Three spiritual layers of 'in his image'.
That all by chance? No wonder Satan was mad! What an amazing privilege?

If you just examine the first half of Ephesians 1:4 you might think God is selecting which individuals will be saved. If you pull back to Ephesians 1:4-5 you will see that God intends to adopt us - where per Ephesians 1:1 the "us" is the "faithful in Christ". If you pull back and examine Ephesians 1:1-14 as a whole, you will see everything God intends for the "faithful in Christ"

Ok I get your view but for me you are way too close for comfort to a Calvinistic viewpoint. So, God prophetically knows who will be saved before the Genesis 6 days and plans a path for them to be Holy and with out blame after they accept Christ. Doesn't He have a plan for the ones who reject Christ too-a plan to also get a chance of being Holy and without blame ? And all this before either group even existed?

 

[jameslouise]

PS Happy Easter to you all, the most important 3 days in the History of man.

 

[John Mullally]

If you just examine the first half of Ephesians 1:4 you might think God is selecting which individuals will be saved. If you pull back to Ephesians 1:4-5 you will see that God intends to adopt us - where per Ephesians 1:1 the "us" is the "faithful in Christ". If you pull back and examine Ephesians 1:1-14 as a whole, you will see everything God intends for the "faithful in Christ".

Ok I get your view but for me you are way too close for comfort to a Calvinistic viewpoint. So, God prophetically knows who will be saved before the Genesis 6 days and plans a path for them to be Holy and with out blame after they accept Christ. Doesn't He have a plan for the ones who reject Christ too-a plan to also get a chance of being Holy and without blame ? And all this before either group even existed?

My first sentence is that if one isolates the first half of Ephesians 1:4, one might think God is selecting which individuals will be saved. I do not believe there is any aspect of biblical predestination that deals with God choosing which individuals will be saved from the FOTW.

God made His choice to be gracious to all. The fact that some are not saved is reflective of man, not God, since God extends a well-meant offer of the gospel to all men.

 

[maxamir]

Paul, Peter, John, and James wrote their Epistles to believers (either churches or individual believers). In viewing the English translations of those Epistles, I take terms like "us", "we", and "you" as addressing believers. And I take terms like "world", "all men", and "everyone" as addressing all humanity - with the caveat that "world" sometimes means just the "ungodly". That works in general for non-Calvinist Evangelicals, but not for Calvinists who commonly treat many phrases translated as "world", "all men", and "everyone" to mean the elect, some people, or all types of people in order to preserve their doctrine. For example, when most Calvinists read John 3:16, they see "For God so loved the elect" whereas non-Calvinists see "For God so loved all humanity". You did this in Post 686 to John 3:16 and in Post 676 to 2 Peter 3:9. It is also commonly done by Calvinists to 1 Timothy 2:4, 1 Timothy 2:6, 1 John 2:2, and Hebrews 2:9. This is a significant theological challenge for Calvinists.

The Calvinist systematic is missing from the New Testament, such as any mention of an Irresistible Grace as the solution for the unsaved to be able to receive the gospel.

, but rather that people must come to Him to obtain “life.” (John 5:40) Jesus and His apostles declared things no Calvinist would ever say, such as God having so loved the “world” that He gave it a Savior, Jesus (John 3:16), who tasted death for “everyone” (Hebrews 2:9), who for His part desires “all men to be saved” (1 Timothy 2:4), “not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.” (2 Peter 3:9) If Calvinism was true, then the Bible-writers would have been careless in their words, or intentionally trying to deceive—something no Christian would accept as true.

Although God desires all people be saved, we are only included "In Christ" when we believe.

1 Timothy 2:3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.​

Ephesians 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit.​

​

John 3:14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”​

In Mark 16 when Jesus commands his disciples to preach the Gospel he includes saying that those who believe and are baptized will be saved. That shows that proclaiming the Gospel includes issuing an invitation to be saved.

Mark 16:15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.​

​

And in the first Gospel presentation after Mark 16 (in Acts 2:36-41) we see that invitation being made, Peter promises salvation to those who repent and are baptized.

You forgot to mention the verse below,

Act 2:39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call."

Who are they who are called?

Rom 8:30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

You said "Jesus never said that God had to first give people spiritual life in order to be able to come to Him," but the following Scriptures deny this.

Joh 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh 6:65 And He said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father."

Luk 10:22 All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him."

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

They that are granted to come are those who have been predestined by grace and will be regenerated to repent, believe and be baptised.

Calvinism is a nickname for what is known as the Doctrines of Grace. Calvin simply echoed the truth of Scripture as Augustine did before him and as do all who truly know the Lord and can say that salvation belongs to Him alone.

Since your heart is currently hardened to these truths, I hope that those who love the truth will humbly search out the verses below and see if these things be true.

"

 

[maxamir]

Your link is pure Calvinist doctrine and I am not going to waste my time tearing it down. Concerning your implication that faith is a gift that God only gives to his favorites (i.e. the elect), Paul says that faith comes by hearing the word of God (Romans 10:17) - and we all choose what we listen to. In Jesus's ministry, Jesus stressed the importance of what he termed "your faith" in the healed - which implies that faith is something that is influenced by the individual.

In Acts 2:38-39, Peter promises salvation to those who repent and are baptized. We can claim that promise. Sadly, many won't and will spend a lifetime of pushing that Gospel out their mind.

The promise of salvation is indeed to those who believe but the demons believe and tremble and they are not saved(Jam 2:19)

Not everyone who hears the Gospel is given saving faith as it is only given to His sheep.

Joh 10:25 Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father's name, they bear witness of Me.
Joh 10:26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

The goats who are also seen in Scripture as the tares, the chaff, the seed of the serpent, the children of the devil and the reprobate are never given what God justly commands to all.

You refuse to read my article which biblically explains the doctrine of who man is because it exposes the false man-centred gospel that you proclaim, which is no gospel at all and those who proclaim another gospel are said to be doubly accursed, which is why I am lovingly warning you and others here of your error and pray that the Lord would humble you this side of eternity to see it.

Gal 1:8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

The Christ of Arminianism is not the Lord Jesus Christ of Holy Scripture and the first international protestant council, gathered together in Dort to expose this evil and call it heresy!


Those who are Berean will read the link below.
The Christ of Arminianism

 

[maxamir]

With their Total Depravity doctrine, Calvinists are engaging in extra-biblical, logical deduction. Their goal, as you have demonstrated in Post 689, is to portray mankind as being evil as Satan, and then ask, “How could such a person ever freely receive Christ? They can’t. Hence, the only thing left is an "Irresistible Grace” that transforms the Elect from Totally Depraved unbelievers into believers. However, there is no grace listed in the Bible as being "Irresistible" - as grace can be resisted. Acts 7:51 indicates that the Holy Spirit is commonly resisted.

Saying that mankind does not seek God (Romans 3:10-12) on its own is not proof that one cannot reply or respond positively to a God who seeks to save the lost. Moreover, pointing out that mankind are enemies of God, does not mean that we cannot confess our fallen state and reply to His message of reconciliation. There is nothing about being an enemy that implies or necessitates an inability to be reconciled to your enemy, just like there’s nothing about being a slave to sin which implies that you’re incapable of admitting that you’re enslaved when confronted. Just because you are a slave to sin, doesn’t mean that you cannot respond to our mighty God who offers to free you.

On a scale from 1 to 10, please let me know what number God Himself describes man in the words below "only evil continually"?

Gen 6:5 Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

It is because you fail to understand that what God says, He does and His promise in Gen 2:17 came true in the removal of His Spirit from man which is His holy image and man who is now spiritually dead and addicted to evil, a slave to sin and Satan, can never chose God unless God intervened and beginning in the cursed garden, the first shadow of the Gospel was seen in the promise of the Seed of the woman that would come to save His people from their sin (Mat 1:21) and Israel which was chosen from among all the people of the world was chosen by God which is a picture of His elect people that would come to Him promised to Abraham from all nations.

To say otherwise makes a mockery of God's sovereign grace and robs Him of His glory by giving it to man who can therefore boast and sing with pride the song below.

 

[John Mullally]

You forgot to mention the verse below,

Act 2:39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call."

Who are they who are called?

Rom 8:30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

You said "Jesus never said that God had to first give people spiritual life in order to be able to come to Him," but the following Scriptures deny this.

Joh 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh 6:65 And He said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father."

Luk 10:22 All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him."

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

Jesus mentions two kinds of drawing in the book of John

1. The pre-Calvary Father drawing of OT believers to His Son in John 6:35-65.
2. The post-Calvary Jesus drawing of all men to Himself in John 12:32.

Pre-Calvary drawing by the Father​

Jesus references the Father’s pre-Calvary Ingathering of the true worshippers of God in Israel, that is, people like Nathanael who was a faithful, believing Jew (John 1:47-51), for the purpose of contradicting the claims of His critics who argued that all true disciples of Moses were necessarily compelled to act against Him.

Who is the Father giving (John 10:37), drawing (John 10:44) and granting (John 10:65) to come to Christ?

(a) Calvinism: Unbelieving “dead rebel sinners” and “total haters of God” who happen to be elect, and on that account are regenerated from being reprobates into saints.​

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or​

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(b) Non-Calvinism: Old Covenant believers who “believed Moses” (John 5:46), who had “heard and learned from the Father” (John 6:45), who are “willing to do His will” (John 7:17) and whose “father“ is “God.” (John 8:42), to go from being the Father’s faithful followers to Jesus’ followers.​

Post-Calvary drawing by the Son​

Jesus did not meet the Jew’s messianic expectations of a warring conqueror, and moreover, Jesus’ use of parables would still reveal truth to those who wanted it and who were willing to submit themselves to God. Nevertheless, Jesus was pointing to a future time after Calvary that He would draw everyone, Jew and Gentile alike. This is partly evidenced in the fact that after Calvary, even those who crucified Jesus were being convicted, and who asked how they too could be saved.

Acts 2:36 “Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.” 37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” 38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

Since your heart is currently hardened to these truths, I hope that those who love the truth will humbly search out the verses below and see if these things be true.

View attachment 329894

Avoid making it personal by saying my heart is hardened to truth.

Shotgun Hermeneutics Some people seem to think they can win theology debates by simply quoting a lot of Bible verses, as if the other person was not aware of those verses and had never read them in the Bible.

None of the five points of Calvinism is clearly explained in the Bible. Its not like the fact that God desires all people to be saved - which most Calvinists reject even though the Bible clearly states it in 1 Timothy 2:4.

 

[maxamir]

@maxamir You do not seem to have answered this?

With respect you are slightly misquoting me, 'they do not have another layer of 'in his image' would be a better summary of what I said.

I read the article and I see no scripture in it that so tightens or so limits or exclusively says what 'in his image' means which seems to be your stance. Clearly a body, spirit and soul, to correspond with Jesus, God the Father and The Holy Spirit is 'in his image'-the triune God. After salvation indwelt with Jesus and The Holy Spirit in a base spirit from God the Father, The three in one God-again 'in his image'. A third layer we are individually conformed to Christ too- our base spirit and all of our gifts-conformed to the image of Christ.
Three spiritual layers of 'in his image'.
That all by chance? No wonder Satan was mad! What an amazing privilege?

Ok I get your view but for me you are way too close for comfort to a Calvinistic viewpoint. So, God prophetically knows who will be saved before the Genesis 6 days and plans a path for them to be Holy and with out blame after they accept Christ. Doesn't He have a plan for the ones who reject Christ too-a plan to also get a chance of being Holy and without blame ? And all this before either group even existed?

You seem to imply that God's image is composed of material things when God Himself is Spirit (John 4:24). If you read my article you would clearly see that the image of God is spiritual/ethical and the biblical definition that has been accepted by historical protestant confessions is that which is found in Eph 4:24 and Col 3:10, being true righteousness, holiness and an intimate knowledge of God which Adam had but lost in the Fall. Only those who are born again are restored with His image and conformed to Christ.

Animals have a body and a soul (Mind, emotions, will) but they were never created in the image of God and given His Spirit and now man only has a spirit which is dead (Eph 2:1) because it is cursed and enslaved to Satan, which is why Christ came to set His captives free (Luk 4:18).

Once you understand that God is eternal and timeless, you will begin to comprehend that He is all powerful, does whatever He pleases and decreed all things that come to pass in this box of time and that is most clearly seen in the election of Hs people in Eph 1:4 and 2 Tim 1:9 for whom Christ died and rose to justify.

Those whom God has not decreed to be saved will instead glorify the goodness of His eternal justice (Rom 9:21-22, Jud 1:4, 1 Pet 2:8). If you have an issue with this, then I recommend you study the attributes of God's holiness, justice, wrath and jealousy.