Annihilation=No Wrath

[BurningBush84]

Please explain why God never warned Adam about this eternal torment, if he at from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. I'm pretty sure that would have been the time for it.

We only know what's recorded. Im sure alot of things happened that were not recorded in the Scriptures (John 20:30/John 21:25).

Adam wasn't warned from words in a book. God himself warned Adam (Genesis 2:17) . “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” John 20:29

“The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows."
Luke 12:47

 

[Water and Fire]

We only know what's recorded. Im sure alot of things happened that were not recorded in the Scriptures (John 20:30/John 21:25).

Adam wasn't warned from words in a book. God himself warned Adam (Genesis 2:17) . “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” John 20:29

“The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows."
Luke 12:47

Wow.... there's the some major straw clutching going on here. When you have to go outside scripture, you know your argument is in trouble.

 

[BurningBush84]

Wow.... some there's the some major straw clutching going on here. When you have to go outside scripture, you know your argument is in trouble.

Outside of scripture ?? John 20:30 and John 21:25 prove that not everything was recorded in scripture. All im saying is i only know whats in scripture . And I quoted John 20:29 and Luke 12:47 to show some of God's characteristics. Thats it.

I quoted Gen 2:17 to show God did give Adam a warning.

 

[BurningBush84]

Annihilationism says all the wicked unbelievers will receive the exact same punishment (annihilation) . But the Bible describes different levels, different degrees of punishment (Luke 10:14 - Luke 12:47-48-Matthew 10:15).

Those 3 passages are just more proof against annihilationism .

 

[ozso]

Outside of scripture ?? John 20:30 and John 21:25 prove that not everything was recorded in scripture. All im saying is i only know whats in scripture . And I quoted John 20:29 and Luke 12:47 to show some of God's characteristics. Thats it.

I quoted Gen 2:17 to show God did give Adam a warning.

The problem some people have with the familiar argument you're using, is that it's easy for them to find plot holes so to speak. John 20:30 and John 21:25 are about things Jesus did, not about what Jesus taught. There's no verse that I know of that says Jesus taught things that weren't written down. Why use verses to say something they don't actually say? That ends up looking like straw clutching. Take Luke 12:47 for example. When a person is beaten with many stripes, that beating doesn't go on forever. For example Jesus was beaten with many stripes, and then he was put to death. Why are you using Gen 2:17 when in it God says says "you will die"? Not you will be punished forever, but you will die.

 

[ozso]

Annihilationism says all the wicked unbelievers will receive the exact same punishment (annihilation) . But the Bible describes different levels, different degrees of punishment (Luke 10:14 - Luke 12:47-48-Matthew 10:15).

Those 3 passages are just more proof against annihilationism .

Actually those verses can be used to support annihilation, considering Tyre, Sidon, Sodom and Gomorrah were annihilated. And like I already pointed out, Jesus was beaten with many stripes and then put to death. Why are you using verses that are about punishments that result in death and annihilation, to argue against the punishment of death and annihilation?

 

[Water and Fire]

Outside of scripture ?? John 20:30 and John 21:25 prove that not everything was recorded in scripture. All im saying is i only know whats in scripture . And I quoted John 20:29 and Luke 12:47 to show some of God's characteristics. Thats it.

I quoted Gen 2:17 to show God did give Adam a warning.

This is your argument, in a nutshell. He didn't say it exactly, so we can just assume he said it.
Just Wow!

 

[BurningBush84]

The problem some people have with the familiar argument you're using, is that it's easy for them to find plot holes so to speak. John 20:30 and John 21:25 are about things Jesus did, not about what Jesus taught. There's no verse that I know of that says Jesus taught things that weren't written down. Why use verses to say something they don't actually say? That ends up looking like straw clutching. Take Luke 12:47 for example. When a person is beaten with many stripes, that beating doesn't go on forever. For example Jesus was beaten with many stripes, and then he was put to death. Why are you using Gen 2:17 when in it God says says "you will die"? Not you will be punished forever, but you will die.

I said Genesis 2:17 was a warning. That's it. Matthew 25:46 proves hell is eternal punishment. So does Revelation 14:11 and Revelation 20:10. So does Luke 16:26

 

[Water and Fire]

Annihilationism says all the wicked unbelievers will receive the exact same punishment (annihilation) . But the Bible describes different levels, different degrees of punishment (Luke 10:14 - Luke 12:47-48-Matthew 10:15).

Those 3 passages are just more proof against annihilationism .

Actually, that is one of the gapping flaws with the eternal punishment doctrine. People like yourself, argue that God must send people to everlasting hell, because is loving, but also just. Well, there is no room for justice, if it's a one size fits all punishment, which eternal punishment is. There is nowhere to indicate that there are levels of punishment in this hell of yours.

 

[BurningBush84]

I said Genesis 2:17 was a warning. That's it. Matthew 25:46 proves hell is eternal punishment. So does Revelation 14:11 and Revelation 20:10. So does Luke 16:26

Annihilation is no punishment whatsoever. Annihilation is Resting In Peace . Annihilation is a blessing a reward. Jesus saved mankind from eternal sleep ? Lol

 

[BurningBush84]

Actually, that is one of the gapping flaws with the eternal punishment doctrine. People like yourself, argue that God must send people to everlasting hell, because is loving, but also just. Well, there is no room for justice, if it's a one size fits all punishment, which eternal punishment is. There is nowhere to indicate that there are levels of punishment in this hell of yours.

There is no where in the Bible that says God created the heavens and the earth . See I can do that to , just like you .

 

[Water and Fire]

I said Genesis 2:17 was a warning. That's it. Matthew 25:46 proves hell is eternal punishment. So does Revelation 14:11 and Revelation 20:10. So does Luke 16:26

He warned Adam that the punishment for disobeying him was death, nothing else. Anything outside this is pure conjecture, and therefore unscriptural. Christ makes it clear that everything he taught was in parable form. To say he taught about a literal burning place, makes nonsense of that statement, and makes no sense.

Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Mat 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Mat 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Now this verse makes utter nonsense of this idea that Christ was running around warning people about hell. He spoke in parables so that the would understand. Now why would he not want them to understand, if he was desperately trying to save everyone? They answer is, he wasn't and isn't.

 

[Water and Fire]

There is no where in the Bible that says God created the heavens and the earth . See I can do that to , just like you .

So, no scripture then, or are we just supposed to take your word for it?

 

[BurningBush84]

Actually those verses can be used to support annihilation, considering Tyre, Sidon, Sodom and Gomorrah were annihilated. And like I already pointed out, Jesus was beaten with many stripes and then put to death. Why are you using verses that are about punishments that result in death and annihilation, to argue against the punishment of death and annihilation?

I've never ever seen the word "annihilation" in the bible. Some towns in the south were recently destroyed by a tornado . But guess what ? They still exist

 

[BurningBush84]

"And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.” Rev 14:11

"And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever." Rev 20:10

"“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."
Matt 25:41

"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” Matt 25:46

"In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire." Luke 16

"The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God." 2 Corinthians 4:4

 

[Water and Fire]

"And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.” Rev 14:11

"And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever." Rev 20:10

"“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."
Matt 25:41

"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” Matt 25:46

"In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire." Luke 16

"The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God." 2 Corinthians 4:4

Yeah, so? Anyone can post random scriptures they don't know the meanings of, which you clearly don't.

 

[ozso]

I said Genesis 2:17 was a warning. That's it. Matthew 25:46 proves hell is eternal punishment. So does Revelation 14:11 and Revelation 20:10. So does Luke 16:26

There's a major problem with using Matthew 25:46 though, and that's verse 40: “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.". Meaning, if taken literally, if you do whatever for one person, you will go away to eternal life. That's the premise of the story; help one person in any way, and you avoid eternal punishment and go away to eternal life.

 

[BurningBush84]

Yeah, so? Anyone can post random scriptures they don't know the meanings of, which you clearly don't.

Let me guess, Genesis 1:1 does NOT mean God created the heavens and the earth.

 

[ozso]

I've never ever seen the word "annihilation" in the bible. Some towns in the south were recently destroyed by a tornado . But guess what ? They still exist

Luke 10:14 and Matthew 10:15 are about the inhabitants of Tyre, Sidon, Sodom and Gomorrah, not the places. Abraham pleaded for the inhabitants, not the places.

 

[ozso]

"And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.” Rev 14:11

That's only talking about those who receive the mark of the beast. And it says the smoke of their torment.

"And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever." Rev 20:10

That's only talking about the devil, the beast and the false prophet.

"“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."
Matt 25:41

Yet those who just did whatever for one person go away to eternal life.

"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” Matt 25:46

Yet those who just did whatever for one person go away to eternal life.

"In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire." Luke 16

Where does it say the rich man is there forever?

"The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God." 2 Corinthians 4:4

If you're going to apply that to anyone in this thread, you're saying they are unbelievers, not Christians, which is very much against CF rules.