The Wheels of Justice Grind Slowly

[disciple Clint]

I disagree. Evidence should be considered even if tentatively. Any given piece of evidence in isolation of other evidence, may or may not rise to the level of proof. Quite often, it is the totality of evidence that leads to a conclusion.


More people don't seem to understand that assertions may be a weak form of evidence, such as a bald assertion from a habitual liar, or a stronger form such as testimony under oath concerning one's direct knowledge. Nor do they seem to understand that evidence may be proof or that even when it is not, it can form the basis of a conclusion.

there is a reason why our court system has a prosecuting attorney and a defense attorney and why the trial does not simply stop after the prosecutor provides his argument as it does in some countries. In this country you are innocent until Proven guilty and you have the opportunity to challenge any and all evidence or testimony used against you. Evidence or testamentary can be an error or a flat out lie, unless it can hold up to scrutiny and be found to be accurate and reliable it is not evidence.

 

[stevil]

This was 'page one' that preceded the above.
Glad to see he's not trying to inflame the situation
(or spell borders or stolen correctly)

It's like throwing everything you can get your hands on at the wall and hoping that some of it sticks.

What he says there has no coherent meaning or logical flow. It's just a great big pile of mixed up horse manure.

 

[DaisyDay]

there is a reason why our court system has a prosecuting attorney and a defense attorney and why the trial does not simply stop after the prosecutor provides his argument as it does in some countries. In this country you are innocent until Proven guilty and you have the opportunity to challenge any and all evidence or testimony used against you.

One is presumed innocent in a court of law. What were all those chants at Trump rallies of "Lock her up! Lock her up!" Were those crowd calling for someone presumed innocent to be incarcerated? It seems so from here.

Evidence or testamentary can be an error or a flat out lie, unless it can hold up to scrutiny and be found to be accurate and reliable it is not evidence.

You're right - evidence can be strong or weak, corroborated or not. When corroborated evidence piles up, pointing towards a particular conclusion, many of us will reach that conclusion if only pending further evidence, supporting or contradicting. Others even seeing where the bulk of the evidence is pointing, cling ever tighter to their preferred conclusion.

 

[essentialsaltes]

What he says there has no coherent meaning or logical flow.

I think the part about people roaming the streets killing and burning without retribution is intended to prime the pump a bit.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Trump says he expects to be arrested Tuesday​

Former President Donald Trump said Saturday he expects to be arrested in connection with the investigation by the Manhattan District Attorney next week and called for protests

I know it's hard to decipher the MAGA mindset, but this is some next-level stuff.

Since (in their minds) the January 6th breach of the Capitol was all a set-up, any protest of Trump's arrest is also a set-up. Despite the fact that the only one working to set up the set-up is.... Donald J. Trump.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Barricades unloaded (but not set up) near Manhattan criminal court ahead of possible Trump indictment​

 

[Postvieww]

This whole get Trump bandwagon is a joke and will only help insure he goes back to the White House.

A DA that lets real violent criminals go free while trying to make a misdemeanor a felony on a former president and presidential candidate is a joke and a disgrace.

Blind hatred for Trump cannot see the truth here.

 

[disciple Clint]

One is presumed innocent in a court of law. What were all those chants at Trump rallies of "Lock her up! Lock her up!" Were those crowd calling for someone presumed innocent to be incarcerated? It seems so from here.

You're right - evidence can be strong or weak, corroborated or not. When corroborated evidence piles up, pointing towards a particular conclusion, many of us will reach that conclusion if only pending further evidence, supporting or contradicting. Others even seeing where the bulk of the evidence is pointing, cling ever tighter to their preferred conclusion.

Evidence is not evidence if it is false, read that again, think about it.

 

[essentialsaltes]

“Protest, take our nation back,” [Trump] wrote.

Some of Trump’s advisers had urged him privately not to call for protests,

DeSantis may be able to help himself in the Florida primary by making full use of his recent anti-protest law.

Florida Adopts Nation's Toughest Restrictions On Protests​

The law increases penalties for protesters who block roadways [blocking highways is now a felony --> losing the right to vote]
And it requires that anyone arrested at a protest be denied bail until their first court appearance, likely making for overnight jail stays.

The law, which goes into effect immediately, grants civil legal immunity to people who drive through protesters blocking a road

 

[iluvatar5150]

DeSantis may be able to help himself in the Florida primary by making full use of his recent anti-protest law.

Florida Adopts Nation's Toughest Restrictions On Protests​

The law increases penalties for protesters who block roadways [blocking highways is now a felony --> losing the right to vote]
And it requires that anyone arrested at a protest be denied bail until their first court appearance, likely making for overnight jail stays.

The law, which goes into effect immediately, grants civil legal immunity to people who drive through protesters blocking a road

Well that certainly would be interesting to see a lefty run their Prius through a maga crowd.

 

[DaisyDay]

Evidence is not evidence if it is false, read that again, think about it.

What particular evidence are you calling false?

 

[disciple Clint]

What particular evidence are you calling false?

OK good grief, back to the original statement that I made, any "evidence" that has not been challenged and verified as truth is not evidence, got it?

 

[DaisyDay]

OK good grief, back to the original statement that I made, any "evidence" that has not been challenged and verified as truth is not evidence, got it?

Which particular evidence do you consider not to have been challenged and verified?

 

[disciple Clint]

Which particular evidence do you consider not to have been challenged and verified?

try to grasp that I am endorsing a concept.

 

[wing2000]

Many wise people do not place themselves in the position of deciding other people are guilty of a crime before they have received a fair trial. We call them Americans, they believe people are innocent until PROVEN guilty.

In the event Trump is indicted, tried and convicted, will you respect the decision of the court?

 

[disciple Clint]

In the event Trump is indicted, tried and convicted, will you respect the decision of the court?

Now we know that is not going to happen but I honor court decisions. Now the real question, when this all goes up in smoke like every other unsuccessful attempt to get something on Trump has done, will most liberals still claim that he was guilty just as they have with every other event that has happened? Do I need to remind people again that in spite of their best efforts, including breaking the law when necessary, Trump has yet to be convicted of any crime what so ever.

 

[USincognito]

will most liberals still claim that he was guilty just as they have with every other event that has happened?

You mean like how conservatives still claim Secretary Clinton was personally and criminally responsible for the deaths in Benghazi (along with all the other people she's supposedly had murdered like Seth Rich)?

Do I need to remind people again that in spite of their best efforts, including breaking the law when necessary, Trump has yet to be convicted of any crime what so ever.

Please, do go on. I'd like to hear about the time "they" broke the law in order to charge Donald with a crime.

 

[USincognito]

This whole get Trump bandwagon is a joke and will only help insure he goes back to the White House.

I find this line of thinking bizarre. He's consistently unpopular and polarizing and while the conservative base is as ardently enamored with him as ever, the majority of the population is, at the very least, over him. I'm not seeing how his being held accountable for crimes he's committed is going to somehow translate into him getting more votes.

Blind hatred for Trump cannot see the truth here.

The irony being that blind devotion to Donald is clouding the eyes and judgement of those who would let him get away with his criminal behavior.

 

[iluvatar5150]

I find this line of thinking bizarre. He's consistently unpopular and polarizing and while the conservative base is as ardently enamored with him as ever, the majority of the population is, at the very least, over him. I'm not seeing how his being held accountable for crimes he's committed is going to somehow translate into him getting more votes.

It’s not hard for me to imagine a situation where there’s some amount of backlash to his being arrested, where folks see that as Dems piling on some sort of witch hunt.

 

[USincognito]

Many wise people do not place themselves in the position of deciding other people are guilty of a crime before they have received a fair trial. We call them Americans, they believe people are innocent until PROVEN guilty.

Actually in America we have freedom of speech and I'm exercising mine by calling Donald out for the serial criminal that he is.