Those who believe the perfect in 1 Cor 13:10 refers to the 2nd coming...

[Postvieww]

So healing always takes place when you pray? You have a 100% success rate?

Jesus didn't!

Mark 6:5
And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them.

Look up the Greek for mighty work!

 

[Butch5]

They are you just do not recognize them.

I'll take Paul's words, thanks!

 

[Carl Emerson]

You are probably the first one I have heard, who has not experienced praying for someone to be healed, but the healing did not take place.

They are your words... not my claim. At the same time there is a distinction between a healing and an immediate divine intervention.

Some folks are immediately released and some recover over time.

But yes - as I look back I cant recall with certainty folks not responding to prayer - as the Word says "confess your sins one to another and pray for one another that you may be healed." That promise is rarely taken seriously. I started out in the seventies in simple faith that He meant what He said in this verse.

Again I stress the key is developing an ability to hear and see what God has appointed and moving in that knowledge to a fruitful outcome.

 

[Carl Emerson]

The Bible says that in the last days there will be lying signs and wonders. If Christians fall for these thinking they are the first century spiritual gifts, they can be lead astray.

Yes... but the end result is the same if the gifts are operating or not. If God wants to heal He will heal.

I guess that in my journey have been careful to be accountable to local fellowship to make sure I have wise servants watching over my soul.

This continues to be the case.

It is the discernment of the Body in unity that exposes lying signs and keeps believers safe in this late hour.

 

[Carl Emerson]

You do agree that much of the healing we see in responses to prayers nowadays are psychosomatic healings such as

1. Back conditions
2. Headaches
3. etc?

Those more dramatic ones, such as cancer remission etc, sometimes yes, the doctor report it is suddenly gone but on occasions, they do come back later on?

We also see faith healers wearing glasses, wearing wigs to concede their loss of hair, etc.

The point that everyone, both continualists and cessationalists agree on, is that God still heals today in response to prayer.

But it is no longer like what happened during Christ first coming to Israel, and those that existed before Acts 28.

As I said, nowadays, even when you commit your healing requests to God.

1. healing may or may not take place,
2. complete healing may not result,
3. and the sickness can return at anytime.

Those three outcomes have nothing to do with the lack of faith in a believer. Someone like Nick Vujicic will understand this very well.

I don't have any connection with the modern church culture you describe, I don't relate to it very well at all.

Nor do I have any concern for the faith of the person being prayed for - Jesus still prayed for folk when the faith levels were very low. Some were healed and didn't even come back to thank Him.

I must say that it all started for me by taking the bible seriously and acting on it.

Actually a good example of this simple response to scripture is recorded in the video "Viva Christo Rey" when folks acted on the verse to share your food with the hungry. So they went out into a dump in Mexico with enough food for 125 and 300 showed up. In first hand accounts the food multiplied so much that they had to take it to 5 orphanages to avoid wasting it. As a result hundreds came to faith in Jesus.

 

[Butch5]

Yes... but the end result is the same if the gifts are operating or not. If God wants to heal He will heal.

I guess that in my journey have been careful to be accountable to local fellowship to make sure I have wise servants watching over my soul.

This continues to be the case.

It is the discernment of the Body in unity that exposes lying signs and keeps believers safe in this late hour.

Yes, but God healing isn't the first century gift of healing. People are conflating different ideas here. We're discussing the first century gifts, not whether God heals or does miracles today. I think we all agree that He does. The question is do the TV preachers really heal? Do all of these Christians out here really heal. How many people are told they didn't get healed because they didn't have enough faith for the man who supposedly has the gift of healing to be effective?

 

[Carl Emerson]

We're discussing the first century gifts, not whether God heals or does miracles today.

Well the two topics are linked...

As I read it the Perfect in 1 Cor 13:10 is not the Canon of Scripture.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

James 4:8 KJV

Acts 2:17-18 KJV

Those references are irrelevant.

 

[Guojing]

They are your words... not my claim.

I asked you

So what happen when you think you hear from God to pray to heal that fellow, and when you pray, no healing takes place?

What would your response be?

You replied with

I prefer to deal with actualities not theoretical scenarios.

So is my question to you not an actuality for you, but only a theoretical scenario?

Or are you making yet another of your tongue in cheek remarks again?

 

[Guojing]

I don't have any connection with the modern church culture you describe, I don't relate to it very well at all.

But do you agree with my conclusion?

As I said, nowadays, even when you commit your healing requests to God.

1. healing may or may not take place,
2. complete healing may not result,
3. and the sickness can return at anytime.

A yes or no answer would be appreciated.

 

[Guojing]

Jesus didn't!

Mark 6:5
And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them.

Look up the Greek for mighty work!

So for your case, you will learn from Jesus and "marvel at people's unbelief" in that scenario I asked Carl?

 

[Carl Emerson]

I asked you


You replied with


So is my question to you not an actuality for you, but only a theoretical scenario?

Or are you making yet another of your tongue in cheek remarks again?

Please - I am trying to be careful to be honest. I can remember any time when this has happened.

However, even If you are specifically led to pray, then you obey and leave the outcomes up to Him.

I cant think of any time that someone I have prayed for has come back and claimed nothing happened.

I need to be clear that I haven't in my time prayed for thousands of the sick - I am more of a 'Bullet Christian' rather than a 'Shotgun Christian' spraying prayer everywhere. I can go 12 months without praying for someone - then a circumstance arises with His fingerprint on it - a door opens and He moves.

 

[Carl Emerson]

But do you agree with my conclusion?



A yes or no answer would be appreciated.

That is not my experience.

For example I attended a healing prayer meeting run by the Order of St. Luke every week for 12 months in order to find a healing for a wound in my Spirit - it took time and 'soaking prayer' is sometimes needed. Sure enough I eventually found complete healing from what was like a tourniquet on my inner self.

I don't buy into sweeping judgements of others.

 

[Butch5]

Well the two topics are linked...

As I read it the Perfect in 1 Cor 13:10 is not the Canon of Scripture.

Agreed. It's the message from God.

 

[Guojing]

I cant think of any time that someone I have prayed for has come back and claimed nothing happened.

Isn't this the same as claiming you have not "experienced praying for someone to be healed, but the healing did not take place"?

 

[Carl Emerson]

Isn't this the same as claiming you have not "experienced praying for someone to be healed, but the healing did not take place"?

No because I don't always get feedback.

 

[Guojing]

No because I don't always get feedback.

I don't understand your logic.

If you don't get feedback of any healing not taking place after you prayed for them, isn't that the same as you saying you have not experienced "praying for someone to be healed, but the healing did not take place"?

 

[HIM]

Actually a good example of this simple response to scripture is recorded in the video "Viva Christo Rey" when folks acted on the verse to share your food with the hungry. So they went out into a dump in Mexico with enough food for 125 and 300 showed up. In first hand accounts the food multiplied so much that they had to take it to 5 orphanages to avoid wasting it. As a result hundreds came to faith in Jesus.

What video?

 

[Carl Emerson]

I don't understand your logic.

If you don't get feedback of any healing not taking place after you prayed for them, isn't that the same as you saying you have not experienced "praying for someone to be healed, but the healing did not take place"?

Mr. G - I didn't say that I don't get feedback from any healing. Any reader can see this. I have been honest with you, I would have hoped that could be reciprocated.

So when I say I don't always get feedback (Jesus didn't either) you assume there was no healing.

The problem I have is that your theology dictates that my ministry has to be sham if gifts are claimed to be operating.

So I am engaged in conversation with a strong position of unbelief.

I might add that I have never made claim of operating in a gift for one simple reason - I don't want to draw attention to myself.

Do my oversight consider there are gifts operating ? Yes.

As I prefer to give all honour to God I don't talk about gifts.

I might add that I have waited 40 years before being released to talk about my ministry at all.

Sorry we don't connect well sadly - theologies can bring division to the Body of Christ.

My immediate oversight has a PhD in theology so this doesn't have to be the case.

 

[HIM]

I don't have any connection with the modern church culture you describe, I don't relate to it very well at all.

Nor do I have any concern for the faith of the person being prayed for - Jesus still prayed for folk when the faith levels were very low. Some were healed and didn't even come back to thank Him.

I must say that it all started for me by taking the bible seriously and acting on it.

Actually a good example of this simple response to scripture is recorded in the video "Viva Christo Rey" when folks acted on the verse to share your food with the hungry. So they went out into a dump in Mexico with enough food for 125 and 300 showed up. In first hand accounts the food multiplied so much that they had to take it to 5 orphanages to avoid wasting it. As a result hundreds came to faith in Jesus.

What video