Those who believe the perfect in 1 Cor 13:10 refers to the 2nd coming...

[Carl Emerson]

So what happen when you think you hear from God to pray to heal that fellow, and when you pray, no healing takes place?

What would your response be?

I prefer to deal with actualities not theoretical scenarios.

However I have seen the unsaved healed and it would be hard to attribute that outcome to faith at all.

Like the patched gang member in the hospital waiting room - if you read the story here... Jesus's Ministry

I am always waiting and praying to respond to each unique situation appropriately.

Here's the sad part - I have been contacted here on CF by a lady with a serious condition and I would like to offer prayer on Zoom.

I need a lady to participate with me but cant find anyone willing to step up.

 

[Guojing]

I prefer to deal with actualities not theoretical scenarios.

However I have seen the unsaved healed and it would be hard to attribute that outcome to faith at all.

So healing always takes place when you pray? You have a 100% success rate?

Of course unsaved can also be healed, I already stated that in this current dispensation, faith has nothing to do with healing today.

 

[Carl Emerson]

So healing always takes place when you pray? You have a 100% success rate?

Of course unsaved can also be healed, I already stated that in this current dispensation, faith has nothing to do with healing today.

God has a 100% success rate...

If we can just cooperate with His intent then success is guaranteed.

Healing however is not always first on His agenda. ( ...ask Nick. )

By the way the preparation needed to participate in what I am describing can take years - the journey has not been easy - but He is faithful and we can share in His wonderful work and not just read about it.

Lastly I have experienced abilities beyond my human self but I am unsure if it is a gift or not and it doesn't worry me one way or another.

I doubt if David or Joseph or Moses debated it... They just wanted to be a willing servants.

However I do believe we can be baptised in the Spirit and have our abilities extended.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I have seen Christ face to face.

I don't believe it. I don't know what you saw but it wasn't the Christ of the Gospels. Paul saw Christ in the centre of a bright light and he was struck blind and needed Ananias to pray for him to receive his sight again. John fell at His feet as if dead. They were the two in Scripture who saw Christ face to face. I don't think you had the same experience as they did so I firmly disbelieve that you saw the actual glorified Christ. Christ is at the right hand of God interceding for the saints. We have the Holy Spirit with whom we have fellowship. Christ does not have to come down and appear to people when the Holy Spirit is present.

 

[Carl Emerson]

When I was about 8 Jesus appeared to me in a vision - I remember it vividly after almost 70 years.

 

[Carl Emerson]

One reason is so that Chrsitians don't get taken in. The Bible says that in the last days there will be lying signs and wonders. If Christians fall for these thinking they are the first century spiritual gifts, they can be lead astray.

So this is the reason not to get involved in anything that might be a God working in this age - is He officially asleep ?

 

[Carl Emerson]

I think it is more likely that the Church gradually lost it's first Love as John warned in Revelation, became disempowered, and the cessationist theology was born to account for the lack of evidence of Jesus in the church.

 

[Guojing]

God has a 100% success rate...

If we can just cooperate with His intent then success is guaranteed.

Healing however is not always first on His agenda. ( ...ask Nick. )

By the way the preparation needed to participate in what I am describing can take years - the journey has not been easy - but He is faithful and we can share in His wonderful work and not just read about it.

Lastly I have experienced abilities beyond my human self but I am unsure if it is a gift or not and it doesn't worry me one way or another.

I doubt if David or Joseph or Moses debated it... They just wanted to be a willing servants.

However I do believe we can be baptised in the Spirit and have our abilities extended.

You are probably the first one I have heard, who has not experienced praying for someone to be healed, but the healing did not take place.

 

[Guojing]

So this is the reason not to get involved in anything that might be a God working in this age - is He officially asleep ?

That is why Paul said in 1 Corinthians 13:13

13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Think of the 400 years of silence from Malachi to the Angel Gabriel appearing to the father of John the Baptist.

If there was Internet then, the nation of Israel will be discussing, just like us, whether God was officially asleep, even after they witnessed the great Roman general Pompey, as well as Marcus Crassus, entered the most sacred of Jewish space, the Holy of Holies.

 

[Carl Emerson]

That is why Paul said in 1 Corinthians 13:13

13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Think of the 400 years of silence from Malachi to the Angel Gabriel appearing to the father of John the Baptist.

If there was Internet then, the nation of Israel will be discussing, just like us, whether God was officially asleep, even after they witnessed the great Roman general Pompey, as well as Marcus Crassus, entered the most sacred of Jewish space, the Holy of Holies.

The comment about God being asleep was 'tongue in cheek' as you doubtless realise...

 

[biblelesson]

I don't believe it. I don't know what you saw but it wasn't the Christ of the Gospels. Paul saw Christ in the centre of a bright light and he was struck blind and needed Ananias to pray for him to receive his sight again. John fell at His feet as if dead. They were the two in Scripture who saw Christ face to face. I don't think you had the same experience as they did so I firmly disbelieve that you saw the actual glorified Christ. Christ is at the right hand of God interceding for the saints. We have the Holy Spirit with whom we have fellowship. Christ does not have to come down and appear to people when the Holy Spirit is present.

James 4:8 KJV

Acts 2:17-18 KJV

 

[Butch5]

Personally, I think it is very destructive to a Christian if he ends up thinking "Its because you or someone praying with you lack faith, that is why the healing did not take place".

It is worse if someone teaches him "You didn't trust God with your money, which is the least use of your faith, so how can God trust you with true riches, like healing"?

That is twisting the lesson of the parable of the unjust steward (Luke 16:10-11).

If Christians are correctly taught that healing in the current dispensation of grace is no longer the same as what was promised to Israel under the previous dispensation of Law, such wrong teachings would naturally vanish.

I agree!

 

[Butch5]

So this is the reason not to get involved in anything that might be a God working in this age - is He officially asleep ?

I would ask, how do you know it's of God?

 

[biblelesson]

I would ask, how do you knownitsnof God?

The more important question is when do you know in your personal life it’s of God!

 

[Guojing]

The comment about God being asleep was 'tongue in cheek' as you doubtless realise...

My point remains regardless of your intent.

 

[Butch5]

The more important question is when do you know in your personal life it’s of God!

Does it align with Scripture?

The Bible tells us that in the end times there will be lying signs and wonders. That's the only mention of end time signs. Jesus said,

Matthew 24:22–24 (KJV 1900): 23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Jesus said there would false Christs and prophets doing great signs and wonders. It's to the point that if they're not careful even the elect may be deceived. So, how are the elect to protect themselves from being deceived? The Scriptures.

 

[biblelesson]

Does it align with Scripture?

The Bible tells us that in the end times there will be lying signs and wonders. That's the only mention of end time signs. Jesus said,

Matthew 24:22–24 (KJV 1900): 23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Jesus said there would false Christs and prophets doing great signs and wonders. It's to the point that if they're not careful even the elect may be deceived. So, how are the elect to protect themselves from being deceived? The Scriptures.

You’re making reference mainly to the tribulation period. I was asking you how do you know personally you have encountered Christ in your life? That He and the Father has come in to you and sup with you? Revelation 3:20 KJV. How do you know the Spirit Has bared witness with your spirit that you are a son of God? Romans 8:16 KJV. Because Jesus makes Himself known to the believer by the Spirit, so how do you know? Ephesians 1:17-19 KJV.

 

[Butch5]

You’re making reference mainly to the tribulation period. I was asking you how do you know personally you have encountered Christ in your life? That He and the Father has come in to you and sup with you? Revelation 3:20 KJV. How do you know the Spirit Has bared witness with your spirit that you are a son of God? Romans 8:16 KJV. Because Jesus makes Himself known to the believer by the Spirit, so how do you know? Ephesians 1:17-19 KJV.

Scripture!

 

[biblelesson]

Scripture!

You can’t answer the question! There’s no justification to your answer because the scripture is alive and breathing, Hebrews 4:12 NIV. The word of God manifests itself. God said He calls the end from the beginning, meaning what He says will come to pass.

He said we are children and heirs, Romans 8:16-17 KJV, and we have been sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, Ephesians 1:13 KJV, So how does this scripture become alive and breathing in your life to experience this reality?

So what Father is not going to communicate with His children? The scripture says we have received the Spirit of adoption where we cry abba Father, Romans 8:15 KJV. So how does this scripture become alive and breathing in your life to experience this reality?

So how do you know? God makes Himself known to His children. Jesus makes Himself known to those that belong to Him.

 

[Postvieww]

I don't think anyone is saying that God doesn't perform miracles or answer prayer. The question we're looking at is are the New Testament spiritual gifts still active.

They are you just do not recognize them.