Is believing/faith a work ?

[sawdust]

It is false, Salvation isnt conditioned on man believing in Jesus, but its conditioned on what Jesus did. By His One Obedience many shall be and are made righteous/Saved Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

That is how the Father accomplished salvation for all men (no other way) but it is not dropped on just anyone from out of the blue. It must be received and this by believing. Believing is our "response - ability". (responsibility)

You keep denying God has commanded men to believe. You keep insisting that God tells us to do something and then proceeds to do it Himself. Why has God commanded men to believe? Because God saves believers. Does our believing save us? No! No more than anything we believe occurs simply because we believe it to be true. Does our believing negate grace? No! Because it is grace that delivers the truth, makes it known to us, enables the soul to act freely without the prison of the sin nature and when believed upon (our response), enables the reality of that truth to become one with the believer (faith). There is no salvation apart from grace and the word it brings to us. Those who prefer darkness will never believe. Those who prefer the light are drawn to Christ.

John 3:18-21
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

Your stance that our response has no bearing on our salvation or lack of it has God condemning His own choices.

 

[sawdust]

Yes you have and are. Im asserting Salvation by Grace of God through the work of Christ.

.... that no-one has to believe in to receive salvation.

 

[GenemZ]

.... that no-one has to believe in to receive salvation.

Here you go!


"Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name,
he gave the right to become children of God." John 1:12


grace and peace ............

 

[Brightfame52]

You are working really hard not to understand what "works" meant at the time the Bible was written.

Its become a work for you.

You want to justify your works salvation!

 

[Brightfame52]

That is how the Father accomplished salvation for all men (no other way) but it is not dropped on just anyone from out of the blue. It must be received and this by believing. Believing is our "response - ability". (responsibility)

You keep denying God has commanded men to believe. You keep insisting that God tells us to do something and then proceeds to do it Himself. Why has God commanded men to believe? Because God saves believers. Does our believing save us? No! No more than anything we believe occurs simply because we believe it to be true. Does our believing negate grace? No! Because it is grace that delivers the truth, makes it known to us, enables the soul to act freely without the prison of the sin nature and when believed upon (our response), enables the reality of that truth to become one with the believer (faith). There is no salvation apart from grace and the word it brings to us. Those who prefer darkness will never believe. Those who prefer the light are drawn to Christ.

John 3:18-21
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

Your stance that our response has no bearing on our salvation or lack of it has God condemning His own choices.

This is more work salvation!

 

[sawdust]

This is more work salvation!

This is more assertion without proof of what I say is wrong.

I have explained how we are saved by grace through faith. I have stated numerous times our believing does not accomplish salvation but that it reveals who we are.

Why don't you explain why God calls men to believe only to then choose for us who is to believe and who is not to believe. Then explain, in the case of unbelievers why is God condemning His own choice? Can God condemn His own will?

Try explaining yourself instead of this dogmatic assertion approach you seem to be so fond of. It's called a discussion, hopefully you've heard of it.

 

[Brightfame52]

This is more assertion without proof of what I say is wrong.

I have explained how we are saved by grace through faith. I have stated numerous times our believing does not accomplish salvation but that it reveals who we are.

Why don't you explain why God calls men to believe only to then choose for us who is to believe and who is not to believe. Then explain, in the case of unbelievers why is God condemning His own choice? Can God condemn His own will?

Try explaining yourself instead of this dogmatic assertion approach you seem to be so fond of. It's called a discussion, hopefully you've heard of it.

You promote salvation by your works, condition on what you do!

 

[sawdust]

You promote salvation by your works, condition on what you do!

So can't explain your position then I see.

 

[Brightfame52]

So can't explain your position then I see.

Lol, really ? Ive been explaining my position since the OP

 

[Receivedgrace]

It is amusing to watch those who do not understand endeavor to teach.
I do not need to know what people think scripture says I just need to know the scriptures. The Holy Spirit teaches what the scriptures actually say in truth.
You must believe to receive is stated in scripture many times. Some protest that believing is a work yet God requires it.

 

[GenemZ]

Lol, really ? Ive been explaining my position since the OP

You know something? You are a lot of "work" over nothing.

You can not comprehend what needs to be comprehended to stop repeating yourself as if you were a programed machine.

In the plural? Works was a religious system devised by the Pharisees to get Jews to think they can win God's approval by doing prescribed deeds. That is what the term "works" indicated when the Gospels were written.

Jesus was always being asked for some work that he could give them like the other rabbis had been doing to the people.

Here are a few examples of the people seeking works to be saved!

"A certain ruler asked him, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” Luke 18:18​

​

"Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must ​

I do to get eternal life?” Matthew 19:16​

​

"On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, ​

“what must I do to inherit eternal life?”" Luke 10:25​

Jesus was asked that question many times. For the religious leaders in Israel had corrupted the people's thinking.
Jesus was seen as a new rabbi who was to give them his list of works to do to gain God's approval.
For the rabbis had all sorts of works they invented to do. Works that Jesus showed his disdain for.

Now? You still don't get it!?

Even the disciples who had been brainwashed by the religious leaders asked Jesus what works they must do to be saved.
Jesus response?


"Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

John 6:28-29

One work! Not works. Jesus said its not by works. Only one work was required of God. To "believe."

I realize that to the Lord a thousand years is as a day. He has the patience for you. Not me.


Proverbs 12:1 warns honest believers against those who refuse correction. Look it up.

grace and peace ..................................

 

[GenemZ]

This is more work salvation!

Jesus replied, ​

​

“The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.”​

​

John 6:29​

Works (plural).... religious system of men.
Work. (singular) .... faith system of God.

The one work onto salvation Jesus approved of. To"believe" in Him.

You call yourself bright frame?
And, you keep failing to get the picture?



'Works' referred to a devised religious system of deeds to perform to become saved. Man's answer to salvation.

In contrast to 'works'? A single work of believing in Jesus revealed no need for works! Faith!


Take your time.

 

[Brightfame52]

It is amusing to watch those who do not understand endeavor to teach.
I do not need to know what people think scripture says I just need to know the scriptures. The Holy Spirit teaches what the scriptures actually say in truth.
You must believe to receive is stated in scripture many times. Some protest that believing is a work yet God requires it.

God only requires and commands the saved regenerate to believe as evidence of having been saved. Other than that, if you say God requires believing to get saved, thats a false teaching, its works.

 

[Brightfame52]

You know something? You are a lot of "work" over nothing.

You can not comprehend what needs to be comprehended to stop repeating yourself as if you were a programed machine.

In the plural? Works was a religious system devised by the Pharisees to get Jews to think they can win God's approval by doing prescribed deeds. That is what the term "works" indicated when the Gospels were written.

Jesus was always being asked for some work that he could give them like the other rabbis had been doing to the people.

Here are a few examples of the people seeking works to be saved!

"A certain ruler asked him, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” Luke 18:18​

​

"Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must ​

I do to get eternal life?” Matthew 19:16​

​

"On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, ​

“what must I do to inherit eternal life?”" Luke 10:25​

Jesus was asked that question many times. For the religious leaders in Israel had corrupted the people's thinking.
Jesus was seen as a new rabbi who was to give them his list of works to do to gain God's approval.
For the rabbis had all sorts of works they invented to do. Works that Jesus showed his disdain for.

Now? You still don't get it!?

Even the disciples who had been brainwashed by the religious leaders asked Jesus what works they must do to be saved.
Jesus response?


"Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

John 6:28-29

One work! Not works. Jesus said its not by works. Only one work was required of God. To "believe."

I realize that to the Lord a thousand years is as a day. He has the patience for you. Not me.


Proverbs 12:1 warns honest believers against those who refuse correction. Look it up.

grace and peace ..................................

Again, I have been explaining my view since the OP friend.

 

[Brightfame52]

Jesus replied, ​

​

“The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.”​

​

John 6:29​

Works (plural).... religious system of men.
Work. (singular) .... faith system of God.

The one work onto salvation Jesus approved of. To"believe" in Him.

You call yourself bright frame?
And, you keep failing to get the picture?



'Works' referred to a devised religious system of deeds to perform to become saved. Man's answer to salvation.

In contrast to 'works'? A single work of believing in Jesus revealed no need for works! Faith!


Take your time.

More works salvation, you cant shake it, I understand friend

 

[sawdust]

Lol, really ? Ive been explaining my position since the OP

Then why didn't you answer my questions? You have explained nothing to me. You have only asserted I'm wrong.

 

[sawdust]

God only requires and commands the saved regenerate to believe as evidence of having been saved. Other than that, if you say God requires believing to get saved, thats a false teaching, its works.

If believing is evidence of salvation, why do we believe different things? Are you suggesting that anyone who believes different to you is not saved?

 

[GenemZ]

Again, I have been explaining my view since the OP friend.

Here is what you claimed......

Now believing is either a work of the flesh [unregenerate] or of the Spirit [ regenerated]
But now Salvation is not by works, Neither by works of the flesh or works of the Spirit.

And, you have been wrong and remain uncorrected.

Faith is a 'work.' Its not... "works."

We are not saved by works. It does not say, we are not saved by one work.
Nor, does it say.... 'not saved by any work..'

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I do not think the NT definition of "works" includes things like faith, charity, church attendance, prayer, taking care of widows, etc.
When the NT talks about works, it is referring to two things. One is the moral commandments of the OT. The other is the sacrificial commandments of the OT. We are not going to be saved by our attempts to obey the OT law. Romans makes it clear that the intent of the law was to prove by the failed attempt that we cannot be saved by the law. It is proof that we have to be saved by some other way, and of course that way is grace and faith. In this context, faith is not a "work." Faith is acting upon knowledge you have been made aware of. Being aware of things is not a work.

 

[Clare73]

Yes you have and are. Im asserting Salvation by Grace of God through the work of Christ.

While the NT asserts salvation by grace. . .through faith (Eph 2:-9)

Now, who we gonna' believe, you or our lyin' eyes on the Scriptures?