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What Is Paul's Definition of NT Prophecy?

ARBITER01

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However, the book of acts does not trump the rest of the new testament writings.
I'm not sure why you would say that.

The book of acts is as much scripture as the rest, and it's examples are in alignment with the rest of the NT books and their teachings, as well as the words of Jesus where it can be applicable.

We are to be led by The Holy Spirit, and He is the one Who witnesses inside us to His words and deeds. It's never been another way in the NT. The apostles and prophets were led by Him, so we are to be also.

I think some people are just afraid of certain aspects of the Spiritual side of GOD, or they don't want to do anything more with Him then what they have, so they just refuse to learn. Whatever be the case, there will be ones who desire that closeness with Him, and He will use us mightily.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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I'm not sure why you would say that.

The book of acts is as much scripture as the rest, and it's examples are in alignment with the rest of the NT books and their teachings, as well as the words of Jesus where it can be applicable.

We are to be led by The Holy Spirit, and He is the one Who witnesses inside us to His words and deeds. It's never been another way in the NT. The apostles and prophets were led by Him, so we are to be also.

I think some people are just afraid of certain aspects of the Spiritual side of GOD, or they don't want to do anything more with Him then what they have, so they just refuse to learn. Whatever be the case, there will be ones who desire that closeness with Him, and He will use us mightily.
That being said 1 Thessalonians 5:22 and vicinity isn't any less part of the scriptures.

And if anyone is a prophet, they will recognize the scripture as Paul wrote in his letter.
 
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ARBITER01

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That being said 1 Thessalonians 5:22 and vicinity isn't any less part of the scriptures.

And if anyone is a prophet, they will recognize the scripture as Paul wrote in his letter.
Are you building fence laws? Sure seems like it.

That section of scripture has nothing to do with what a prophet's/prophetess's message will be, so why would you quote it other than you are wanting to control what is said.
 
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Presbyterian Continuist

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We are close to agreement on this with minor exceptions..

Paul was being notified in advance concerning what would happen to him in Jerusalem. I don't think he went in disobedience to the Holy Spirit.

You seem to disagree with yourself on one point.

You say prophesy can be ex-biblical - I agree with this.

Then you say it cannot contain new revelation that is not already shown in the bible - I don't agree with this.

Maybe you need to explain what you mean by ex-biblical.

Non-biblical would mean in contradiction to the Word - no problem with excluding this.

Ex-biblical includes many things Jesus said that were not recorded. We cant exclude what God has said that is not recorded. Neither can we exclude what God will say that is not recorded. Any such Words however will harmonise with what is already written.

Then you say a prophetic word must not reveal sin in a believer. I disagree with this.

I have personally taken a Word in writing to a Pastor after praying over it for a year.

It revealed that his son was sleeping with a lady in the church.

It also predicted that if the matter was not sorted God would stop folks from attending his church.

The Word was rejected - the church shrunk from 150 to 15 - later I heard that others had the same Word and eventually the truth was uncovered.
It has to do with how we define "new revelation". There were many religious literature works in the first century, alongside the Gospels and Epistles. Yet the Holy Spirit made sure to preserve only four of the many gospels, and the epistles that we have in the NT. There were other written works that contained much truth, but the Holy Spirit chose not to include them in what the church now recognises as the canon of Scripture. However, we can learn a lot from these Apographal works. I have a whole library of Christian books, but none of them are Scripture, yet I enjoy reading them and sense the Holy Spirit speaking to me through them.

The type of new revelation that I would not accept are the ones that come from church tradition, such as the position of Mary in the scheme of things, or like some in the Thessalonian church teaching that the resurrection had happened already. Also the "new" revelations that have come out of the Prosperity doctrine that are found nowhere in the Bible. I really don't know of any other definition of "new" revelation that would not be attempts to add something new to the Scriptures.

My definition of "ex-Biblical" is prophecy or words of knowledge, wisdom, discernment of spirits, that are not expressly quoted in the Bible, but are totally consistent with what is already written there, and with the nature and character of God.

I think we have to be very careful when a word of knowledge has been revealed that could cause a major upset in the church. There has to be much wisdom on how to share the word so as to have the least impact on the fellowship as a whole. Blurting out someone's sin in public could cause great harm and alienate a brother or sister from the fellowship and perhaps from Christ Himself. If the word is wrong, then the person giving it could face legal action for defamation of character. If a person is involved in the type of sin that you described, then sharing it like: "It is important that you ensure that you are ruling your family well and that your children are living holy lives before the Lord, so as to protect your pastoral status. One of the important qualifications for an elder (aka pastor) is that he is able to rule his family well. Any family member seriously falling below the standard of holiness could disqualify you as pastor and you may be required to resign your position." In this way, you are not directly accusing anyone, but the pastor may take the warning and check his son out to ensure that he is not doing anything immoral. The pastor then has several choices: either the son stops the immoral conduct or leave the family home, or the pastor steps down until his domestic situation is resolved. This is much better than telling the pastor that his son is sleeping with a female church member. The whole point of the word of knowledge is to protect the pastor, enable the problem to be dealt with discretely, and seeking to restore both the son and the church member to holiness, and to prevent a major division in the church.

Often a word of knowledge is given to someone in order to give wisdom on how to pray for the situation, and to sort out with the Lord about the best way to share it with the person involved without blowing everything wide open. What causes division in a fellowship over sin is a lack of wisdom about how the sin is dealt with. One can use a sledge hammer to crack a walnut and that destroys the walnut making it useless for anything else.
 
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AV1611VET

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What Is Paul's Definition of NT Prophecy?

We believe the prophets ended when the Word of God was completed in AD 96.

1 Corinthians 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come
[the Bible], then that which is in part shall be done away.

And we like to put it this way:

The OT prophets FORETOLD the Truth.
The NT prophets FORTHTELL the Truth.

In other words, the NT prophets are our preachers today.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Are you building fence laws? Sure seems like it.

That section of scripture has nothing to do with what a prophet's/prophetess's message will be, so why would you quote it other than you are wanting to control what is said.
It sounds like you're advocating prophets should just speak and listeners should not exercise discernment. Not a very healthy sentiment.
 
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ARBITER01

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It sounds like you're advocating prophets should just speak and listeners should not exercise discernment. Not a very healthy sentiment.
Am I?

Let me ask you a question,... how would I know a person was speaking by utterance of The Holy Spirit when they were speaking a corporate message of tongues in the assembly?
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Am I?

Let me ask you a question,... how would I know a person was speaking by utterance of The Holy Spirit when they were speaking a corporate message of tongues in the assembly?
A good indicator is how they connect to others in the unity of the body of Christ.

Meditating on John 17, if the connection method imitates modalism, it's occult. If the connection method imitates the trinity then it's of God.
 
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Carl Emerson

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We believe the prophets ended when the Word of God was completed in AD 96.

1 Corinthians 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come [the Bible], then that which is in part shall be done away.

And we like to put it this way:

The OT prophets FORETOLD the Truth.
The NT prophets FORTHTELL the Truth.

In other words, the NT prophets are our preachers today.

Who is 'we' ???
 
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ARBITER01

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A good indicator is how they connect to others in the unity of the body of Christ.

Meditating on John 17, if the connection method imitates modalism, it's occult. If the connection method imitates the trinity then it's of God.
Or,.....

If there is edification to your spirit from The Holy Spirit during the message.

Tongues with interpretation by The Holy Spirit will always be in the framework of "edification, exhortation, and comfort." Always.

I think your experience with these things is very limited and this topic is over your head somewhat. Sorry, but I'm gonna call it like it is.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Or,.....

If there is edification to your spirit from The Holy Spirit during the message.

Tongues with interpretation by The Holy Spirit will always be in the framework of "edification, exhortation, and comfort." Always.

I think your experience with these things is very limited and this topic is over your head somewhat. Sorry, but I'm gonna call it like it is.
I find people from pentecostal backgrounds tend to be condescending towards me, so your attitude is not surprising.

My experience is just outside of your doctrinal box.

Basing it on how it makes you feel can leave you open to the flesh taking over the discernment process. So I would not recommend your approach.
 
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AV1611VET

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Who is 'we' ???

Our church.

Since I'm an Independent Fundamental Baptist, I can't answer for all the others.

I used "we" to show that I'm not just the only one on earth who thinks this.
 
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Carl Emerson

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It has to do with how we define "new revelation". There were many religious literature works in the first century, alongside the Gospels and Epistles. Yet the Holy Spirit made sure to preserve only four of the many gospels, and the epistles that we have in the NT. There were other written works that contained much truth, but the Holy Spirit chose not to include them in what the church now recognises as the canon of Scripture. However, we can learn a lot from these Apographal works. I have a whole library of Christian books, but none of them are Scripture, yet I enjoy reading them and sense the Holy Spirit speaking to me through them.

The type of new revelation that I would not accept are the ones that come from church tradition, such as the position of Mary in the scheme of things, or like some in the Thessalonian church teaching that the resurrection had happened already. Also the "new" revelations that have come out of the Prosperity doctrine that are found nowhere in the Bible. I really don't know of any other definition of "new" revelation that would not be attempts to add something new to the Scriptures.

My definition of "ex-Biblical" is prophecy or words of knowledge, wisdom, discernment of spirits, that are not expressly quoted in the Bible, but are totally consistent with what is already written there, and with the nature and character of God.

I think we have to be very careful when a word of knowledge has been revealed that could cause a major upset in the church. There has to be much wisdom on how to share the word so as to have the least impact on the fellowship as a whole. Blurting out someone's sin in public could cause great harm and alienate a brother or sister from the fellowship and perhaps from Christ Himself. If the word is wrong, then the person giving it could face legal action for defamation of character. If a person is involved in the type of sin that you described, then sharing it like: "It is important that you ensure that you are ruling your family well and that your children are living holy lives before the Lord, so as to protect your pastoral status. One of the important qualifications for an elder (aka pastor) is that he is able to rule his family well. Any family member seriously falling below the standard of holiness could disqualify you as pastor and you may be required to resign your position." In this way, you are not directly accusing anyone, but the pastor may take the warning and check his son out to ensure that he is not doing anything immoral. The pastor then has several choices: either the son stops the immoral conduct or leave the family home, or the pastor steps down until his domestic situation is resolved. This is much better than telling the pastor that his son is sleeping with a female church member. The whole point of the word of knowledge is to protect the pastor, enable the problem to be dealt with discretely, and seeking to restore both the son and the church member to holiness, and to prevent a major division in the church.

Often a word of knowledge is given to someone in order to give wisdom on how to pray for the situation, and to sort out with the Lord about the best way to share it with the person involved without blowing everything wide open. What causes division in a fellowship over sin is a lack of wisdom about how the sin is dealt with. One can use a sledge hammer to crack a walnut and that destroys the walnut making it useless for anything else.

Why do you raise this ???

Are you intimating that I did not handle the issue wisely ?

Was praying about how to wisely deliver the Word for 12 months not enough?

The Word was delivered in writing to him alone in confidence.

Nothing was 'blown wide open'

Are trying to 'correct' the way I acted ?

The Church was not a safe place to fellowship.

The son was a youth group leader.

Women were at risk.

Our Word was dismissed - we had to leave.
 
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ARBITER01

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I find people from pentecostal backgrounds tend to be condescending towards me, so your attitude is not surprising.

My experience is just outside of your doctrinal box.

Basing it on how it makes you feel can leave you open to the flesh taking over the discernment process. So I would not recommend your approach.
I'm going to call it like it is Michael. And to be honest, from your answer, I don't think you have any experience with how The Holy Spirit operates His ministries in the assemblies.

You see, I used scripture, in particular,... scripture from 1 Corinthians about the gifts, to explain how we check an utterance from The Holy Spirit. It had nothing to do with any sort of doctrinal stance, just rightly dividing the word on how the gifts and ministries operate.

Anyways, at least I know where you are at on these things now. Good day.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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I'm going to call it like it is Michael. And to be honest, from your answer, I don't think you have any experience with how The Holy Spirit operates His ministries in the assemblies.

You see, I used scripture, in particular,... scripture from 1 Corinthians about the gifts, to explain how we check an utterance from The Holy Spirit. It had nothing to do with any sort of doctrinal stance, just rightly dividing the word on how the gifts and ministries operate.

Anyways, at least I know where you are at on these things now. Good day.
Well, God knows where I am, and you don't.

And I'm fine with that.
 
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AV1611VET

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Oh-oh! Did I step into an argument! :eek:
 
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