What Is Paul's Definition of NT Prophecy?

[ARBITER01]

I think we are getting our Body of Christ's mixed up.

The invisible church of true believers constitutes the Body of Christ (Capital B)

Any Prophet must be part of this Body.

Paul speaks about how this is to function.

I am not talking about Hierarchy but mutual submission.

So for what it is worth this is how I see this working.

Prophets would fellowship among themselves, being in mutual submission, and bringing Words to local fellowships.

This would satisfy the Biblical narrative and bring the institutional church back into line.

The fellowship of Prophets would not be beholden to any particular fellowship but fellowships could recommend consideration be given for certain members to be considered to join the Prophet's fellowship as members show evidence of such a calling.

The final say however would be mutual among the Prophets.

The foundation of the Church is the Apostles and Prophets these two roles need reinstating to challenge the political mess we have ended up with.

I like your thinking on this Carl.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

We are going to find disagreement on this Oscarr.

I don't pigeon hole a prophet into just one ideal when GOD used prophets in many different ways in the OT. They could have a teaching aspect associated with their ministry, but their will from GOD is not necessarily just what is going on inside a church.

Again, we are not going to see eye to eye on this Oscarr, and GOD has spent too much time over the years showing me all the different aspects of that office for you to try and change my mind about it now. Sorry.

I have no issue about what you have said about NT prophecy and that God uses prophets in different ways. The key to genuine prophecy is that it glorifies Jesus and is consistent with the Gospel of Christ. Warning to the body of Christ about things to come is also a characteristic of genuine prophecy. What I am advocating is what is generally missing from the popular definitions of the NT Prophet is the call to the heretical parts of the church to repent, forsake their idols and return to the Lord. This is why I support the ministry of Paul Washer, the late David Wilkerson, Leonard Ravenhill as an essential component of the NT Prophet.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I like your thinking on this Carl.

I had the opportunity to establish it a few years ago - local fellowships were keen.

However the initiative was quickly closed down - my Pastor was accused falsely - I found him weeping out the back of the church.

So I guess I was on the right track...

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

The reason why we don't see many good NT Prophets calling out apostate and heretical churches is that they are afraid of offending people. They find it easier to preach a watered down "politically correct" message that is full of compromise. They try to see the good in these churches in the hope that somehow the churches will reform. What results is that the preachers become mere man pleasers and the strength and conviction is drained from their ministry. Money is often part of the motive. If they preach an uncompromising message exposing the hypocrisy and heretical nature of churches, the "love offering" they would have received might not be forthcoming.

"The fear of man brings a snare, But one who trusts in the LORD will be protected" (Proverbs 29:25).

 

[ARBITER01]

The reason why we don't see many good NT Prophets calling out apostate and heretical churches is that they are afraid of offending people. They find it easier to preach a watered down "politically correct" message that is full of compromise. They try to see the good in these churches in the hope that somehow the churches will reform. What results is that the preachers become mere man pleasers and the strength and conviction is drained from their ministry. Money is often part of the motive. If they preach an uncompromising message exposing the hypocrisy and heretical nature of churches, the "love offering" they would have received might not be forthcoming.

"The fear of man brings a snare, But one who trusts in the LORD will be protected" (Proverbs 29:25).

For some reason Oscarr, you keep thinking that NT prophets are suppose to be preaching against bad churches and such, as if that's all they are suppose to do.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

For some reason Oscarr, you keep thinking that NT prophets are suppose to be preaching against bad churches and such, as if that's all they are suppose to do.

Well, I think that people need to have another thought about what a NT Prophet should be doing, seeing that all the "official" prophets have been discredited as false, with their prophecies not coming to pass.

 

[ARBITER01]

Well, I think that people need to have another thought about what a NT Prophet should be doing, seeing that all the "official" prophets have been discredited as false, with their prophecies not coming to pass.

Yea but this idea that modern day prophets should operate the same way that John the baptist did is unrealistic.

 

[ARBITER01]

I had the opportunity to establish it a few years ago - local fellowships were keen.

However the initiative was quickly closed down - my Pastor was accused falsely - I found him weeping out the back of the church.

So I guess I was on the right track...

Going off what I've seen so far in some churches, organizing a group of prophesiers would not be all that hard, depending on the area. But trying to put together a group/school of actual prophets would be hard to pull off I think.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Yea but this idea that modern day prophets should operate the same way that John the baptist did is unrealistic.

Why not? The NT Prophet would just have a different audience, and his repentance would be in combination with realigning with Christ, and not, as John the Baptizer, repentance to prepare for the coming of the Messiah. Getting some sort of mystical "word" from God predicting the future as many of these false prophets are doing is not hearing from the Holy Spirit at all. If we use Paul Washer as a contemporary John the Baptizer calling out the Church to repentance, then we see a genuine NT Prophet in action. He is getting his material from the Holy Spirit speaking to him from the written Scriptures and not from some mystical, psychic "word" from some spirit purporting to be the Holy Spirit.

 

[Carl Emerson]

He is getting his material from the Holy Spirit speaking to him from the written Scriptures

Agabus did not just quote the OT.

 

[ARBITER01]

Why not? The NT Prophet would just have a different audience, and his repentance would be in combination with realigning with Christ, and not, as John the Baptizer, repentance to prepare for the coming of the Messiah. Getting some sort of mystical "word" from God predicting the future as many of these false prophets are doing is not hearing from the Holy Spirit at all. If we use Paul Washer as a contemporary John the Baptizer calling out the Church to repentance, then we see a genuine NT Prophet in action. He is getting his material from the Holy Spirit speaking to him from the written Scriptures and not from some mystical, psychic "word" from some spirit purporting to be the Holy Spirit.

The examples of what capacities we can expect GOD to use a prophet nowadays are all in the OT.

What you're describing are preachers, not prophets.

Btw, washer is not some sort of NT prophet, he's just some hard hearted baptist.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Agabus did not just quote the OT.

Perhaps Agabus was unique and did not fit into the criteria of the NT five-fold ministry Prophet. We have no record of any other prophet like him who was able to predict the future like he did.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

The examples of what capacities we can expect GOD to use a prophet nowadays are all in the OT.

What you're describing are preachers, not prophets.

Btw, washer is not some sort of NT prophet, he's just some hard hearted baptist.

The OT Prophets did a lot of preaching, and although some did write what God told them He was going to do in the future to set up the progress of world events leading up to the coming of the Messiah, they also often cut through deception and showed the reality of what was happening right then. Micaiah blew up the deceptive prophecies of Ahab's prophets and told Ahab was really was going to happen to him. It is interesting to me that the nature and content of Ahab's false prophets bear a clear similarity to what the false NAR and other Youtube so called prophets are saying. The latter are saying that everything is okay in the Church and God is going to defeat all the enemies and bring blessing and prosperity to all, when the reality is that large sections of the Church are apostate and judgment is around the corner if they don't repent.

It is interesting that the modern "prophets" are emulating Agabus because he was the only clear example of a prophet described in the Book of Acts, although we know that there were prophets at Antioch when Paul and Barnabas were there, but we have no record of any prophecies given by them.

But all the modern "prophets" emulating Agabus have proven to be false. None of their predictions have ever come to pass. A challenge was put out for just one "prophet" to show conclusively that they were able to predict any significant world event before it happened, and not one was able to come forward. So it is proven that emulating Agabus hasn't worked at all.

So, if all the modern "prophets" have proven to be false, and you are saying that preachers like David Wilkerson, Leonard Ravenhill and Paul Washer are not NT Prophets who are calling for repentance to the apostate parts of the Church, then we don't really know what a true NT Prophet actually is or what he does, because we don't have any authentic examples of the read five-fold NT Prophetic ministry. So, we are left with just guesswork, which up until now hasn't worked. Maybe the only alternative is to accept that the NT Prophet ministry ceased after the First Century and we don't really know how to effectively restore it.

 

[ARBITER01]

I guess I'll have to put you back on ignore Oscarr if you can't stop mentioning nar, or washer, ravenhill, or someone else who is nothing more than a critic of the body of Christ in your posts.

I'm interested in conversation here with folks, not listening to you beat up the body of Christ in every post.

 

[GTW27]

So what would Jesus do through the prophet today in the mist of His creation. Would He repeat the same warnings He gave when He was here in the flesh about these times. Would He need a fellowship of the prophets. And how would He be received in mist of the modern church as well as in the mist of a fallen world. Would He need signs and wonders to be believed or would He walk humbly through out His creation never letting the left hand know what the right is doing. Would He sit down with the sinner as well as encourage and lift up the struggling Christian. Perhaps it is best not to try to define the role of The Lord's modern prophet until you see one face to face. It is then, that you will know. "and He told me all that I was".

 

[Carl Emerson]

Perhaps Agabus was unique and did not fit into the criteria of the NT five-fold ministry Prophet. We have no record of any other prophet like him who was able to predict the future like he did.

Yes, I think we somehow find security in fitting spiritual matters into theological boxes and insisting on delivering truth like pizzas.

Maybe God enjoys introducing uniqueness into our world - He sure did with Jesus and put Pharisaical noses well out of joint.

 

[Carl Emerson]

The OT Prophets did a lot of preaching, and although some did write what God told them He was going to do in the future to set up the progress of world events leading up to the coming of the Messiah, they also often cut through deception and showed the reality of what was happening right then. Micaiah blew up the deceptive prophecies of Ahab's prophets and told Ahab was really was going to happen to him. It is interesting to me that the nature and content of Ahab's false prophets bear a clear similarity to what the false NAR and other Youtube so called prophets are saying. The latter are saying that everything is okay in the Church and God is going to defeat all the enemies and bring blessing and prosperity to all, when the reality is that large sections of the Church are apostate and judgment is around the corner if they don't repent.

It is interesting that the modern "prophets" are emulating Agabus because he was the only clear example of a prophet described in the Book of Acts, although we know that there were prophets at Antioch when Paul and Barnabas were there, but we have no record of any prophecies given by them.

But all the modern "prophets" emulating Agabus have proven to be false. None of their predictions have ever come to pass. A challenge was put out for just one "prophet" to show conclusively that they were able to predict any significant world event before it happened, and not one was able to come forward. So it is proven that emulating Agabus hasn't worked at all.

So, if all the modern "prophets" have proven to be false, and you are saying that preachers like David Wilkerson, Leonard Ravenhill and Paul Washer are not NT Prophets who are calling for repentance to the apostate parts of the Church, then we don't really know what a true NT Prophet actually is or what he does, because we don't have any authentic examples of the read five-fold NT Prophetic ministry. So, we are left with just guesswork, which up until now hasn't worked. Maybe the only alternative is to accept that the NT Prophet ministry ceased after the First Century and we don't really know how to effectively restore it.

I think that He has his own, who will carry His Word at the right time, who are not in the limelight.

We are not going to find such spiritual veracity among the known.

I have been shown future events more than once that have come to pass.

Where is Jesus ???

Among the sinners - not among the celebrities.

 

[ARBITER01]

So what would Jesus do through the prophet today in the mist of His creation.

Depends on what area He would need a prophet to concentrate on.

Prophets are very individualistic, very independent, as well as also very dedicated and loyal to GOD. So if Jesus foresees a problem with a huge build up of witchcraft in a country, He can raise a prophet up in that area to combat it. If there are issues with governments, He can use a prophet to start removing the offending individuals.

Of course prophets operate in the revelation gifts like Agabus, Jeremiah, and others, but they can also operate in the greater gifts of power like Elijah.

It just depends on what GOD needs for a given situation.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I recall an unknown servant who was summoned to speak at the Whitehouse.

His work among sinners is what drew attention to him.

He never was and never will be among the known.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I guess I'll have to put you back on ignore Oscarr if you can't stop mentioning nar, or washer, ravenhill, or someone else who is nothing more than a critic of the body of Christ in your posts.

I'm interested in conversation here with folks, not listening to you beat up the body of Christ in every post.

Well, you have every right to do that. All I am doing is trying to explain the true role of the NT Prophet, who is to keep the Church honest and continuing in the right direction. The five fold ministries are:
Apostle - plant and maintain churches
Prophet - keep churches moving in the right direction
Evangelist - preach the gospel and make disciples for Christ
Pastor - shepherd the local congregation
Teacher - educate the body of Christ in sound doctrine

The best example of one functioning as a NT Prophet was Jesus Himself as He gave John instructions on what to say to the Seven Churches at the start of the book of Revelation. He told the Churches what they were doing right and what they needed to put right. That, I believe is the function of the NT Prophet, not to get some mystical "word" and make predictions that don't come true.

"Have I become your enemy because I tell you the truth?"
Put me on ignore if you will. It won't change what I believe God has told me concerning the NT Prophet.