What does John 1:29 mean to you?

[d taylor]

He appears to be an Acts 2 dispensationalist, i.e he believes the Body of Christ began at Pentecost.

Would that be your view as well?

I believe the Church began at Pentecost

 

[Guojing]

I believe the Church began at Pentecost

Yep, as he does, can see why you have his book

 

[YahuahSaves]

Born of the flesh has the attachments inherited from our ancestors (Adam and Eve). To be born of the Spirit means to me that you have been 'called' by the Spirit to repentance and have answered that call. It somehow changes your 'DNA'.

Here is a hint at that from when God visited Ezekiel in the chariot.

19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:​

20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.​

It is similar to Jer 31:30-33

No, not "DNA". The passage is literal. He takes our heart of stone and makes it flesh. He takes the sin from it. He did this for me in the area of unforgiveness. Which is like a bitter poison that infects it. Having it removed by God makes a huge difference in how we see and relate to those around us.

 

[Lulav]

Correct. . .only the born again are saved. . .by faith. . .in the Promise (Jesus Christ, Seed of Ge 15:5, Gal 3:16).

And works- Just like Abraham

 

[Lulav]

Yes, the promise of seed was made to Christ, fulfilled in the church, the body of Christ.

How was it fulfilled and what was this promise?

 

[Lulav]

All sin is the same. . .disobedience of God.

Yes, but there are different levels.

 

[Lulav]

He appears to be an Acts 2 dispensationalist, i.e he believes the Body of Christ began at Pentecost.

Would that be your view as well?

When do you believe it did?

 

[Lulav]

I believe the Church began at Pentecost

Yes, with a whole bunch of Jews from all over!

 

[Lulav]

No, not "DNA". The passage is literal. He takes our heart of stone and makes it flesh. He takes the sin from it. He did this for me in the area of unforgiveness. Which is like a bitter poison that infects it. Having it removed by God makes a huge difference in how we see and relate to those around us.

Born of the flesh has the attachments inherited from our ancestors (Adam and Eve). To be born of the Spirit means to me that you have been 'called' by the Spirit to repentance and have answered that call. It somehow changes your 'DNA'.​

​

Here is a hint at that from when God visited Ezekiel in the chariot.​

​

​

19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:​

20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.​

Yes, the 'attachments I spoke of are the sin nature. It's what happened after the disobedience in the garden.
It is described as 'being naked' and why God had to make atonement for them with the animals he skinned for their 'coats'. That has stayed in our DNA for all these millennia. That is why Jesus said ' You must be born again'. You need to get back to that 'clean' state Adam had at the beginning. Until that is accomplished, you remain in an unclean state. This is what being born of the Spirit means.

 

[Guojing]

When do you believe it did?

The Body of Christ, where Jews and gentiles are equal, was a mystery that was revealed to Paul, so clearly Acts 2 cannot be that.

But I see that you are a Messianic Jew so you would have a different view on that.

 

[Lulav]

The sin you were writing about in Matthew 12 blasphemy of The Holy spirit/the unforgivable sin. Is not or was never an individual sin. It was a national sin that could have only been committed by The nation of Israel. Why the nation of Israel, because they were God's chosen nation. That sin is only found in the context of Matthew 12. Where Jesus does specific miracles, that only the promised Messiah was supposed to be able to do. I am posting a few pages that go into more of an explanation of this below.

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Interesting read, you should start a thread about this, I'm sure many would be relieved to read about that.

 

[Lulav]

BTW, it is not called 'free will', in the Bible.

There's a lot of things we talk about that aren't in the bible in so many words, for example, the word 'Bible' it just means book, We should refer to it as the scriptures, or writings.

Anyway take this into consideration this is what the Messiah says:

John 7:17​

Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.


So if someone can choose, or make a choice to do God's will that means they also have a will. The free will is the ability to 'choose'. It goes all the way back to the garden. Reiterated in Deut. 30:19

 

[YahuahSaves]

Born of the flesh has the attachments inherited from our ancestors (Adam and Eve). To be born of the Spirit means to me that you have been 'called' by the Spirit to repentance and have answered that call. It somehow changes your 'DNA'.​

​

Here is a hint at that from when God visited Ezekiel in the chariot.​

​

​

19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:​

20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.​

Yes, the 'attachments I spoke of are the sin nature. It's what happened after the disobedience in the garden.
It is described as 'being naked' and why God had to make atonement for them with the animals he skinned for their 'coats'. That has stayed in our DNA for all these millennia. That is why Jesus said ' You must be born again'. You need to get back to that 'clean' state Adam had at the beginning. Until that is accomplished, you remain in an unclean state. This is what being born of the Spirit means.

So are you of the belief that being born of the spirit takes away our ability to sin?

I still don't agree on your DNA angle. This is a spiritual matter, not a physical one.

 

[Lulav]

Only His sheep will obey.


Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father’s name, these testify of Me. But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
— John 10:25-28

And do you believe (harking back to the topic of the thread) that if Messiah has his own 'sheep' and these sheep are the wheat, that the tares planted by the adversary are the 'not the sheep' and that planting could well be the 'SIN of the world John was talking about?

Man does not have a totally free will (philosophically), he cannot choose to be always sinless in thought, word and deed.

But he is definitely free to choose, without external force or constraint, his answer to the offer of salvation.

That's what I've been talking about, the ability to freely choose to stop following your own will and follow God's will instead. We are human, we fail but we can still continue to make that choice.

He did not come just for the Jewish nation.

Matt 10:6 and Matt15: 24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

"Gentile" did not originally mean non-Jewish, but refers to the "Nations." Gentile is an invented word post-apostolic.

Yes, the nations, the ones not considered the Children of God.

No, not "DNA". The passage is literal. He takes our heart of stone and makes it flesh. He takes the sin from it. He did this for me in the area of un-forgiveness. Which is like a bitter poison that infects it. Having it removed by God makes a huge difference in how we see and relate to those around us.

Literal? I think anyone that's seen a medical show knows our hearts are made of flesh and blood. I think this means the sinful heart that came about when the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil was ingested. He takes that and reverses it.

The Body of Christ, where Jews and gentiles are equal, was a mystery that was revealed to Paul, so clearly Acts 2 cannot be that.

But I see that you are a Messianic Jew so you would have a different view on that.

The 'church' was started in the wilderness, with the 12 tribes of Jacob.

Also it was not to Paul that it was revealed that the Gentiles would be allowed to join them , it was Peter, in Acts 10.
In fact he was an Italian. His name was Cornelius which means 'little horn'.

 

[Hammster]

And works- Just like Abraham

Yikes!! Not at all.

 

[Lulav]

So are you of the belief that being born of the spirit takes away our ability to sin?

No, didn't say that, what it does is after being shown our sinfulness and need for a redeemer, we make teshuvah, we turn from our wicked ways (repentance). We do not lose our free will and we all will slip but when we do, if we've truly been born again we will acknowledge it and repent.

1 John 1:9​

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.​

James 5:16​

Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much.​

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Even in the time of King David this also was the way:

2 Samuel 12:13​

Then David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” And Nathan said to David, “The Lord also has taken away your sin; you shall not die.​

I still don't agree on your DNA angle. This is a spiritual matter, not a physical one.

I believe that there is both a spiritual DNA and a physical one.

 

[Lulav]

@Hammster This is what called you here.

Only His sheep will obey.


Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father’s name, these testify of Me. But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
— John 10:25-28

Lulav asked: And do you believe (harking back to the topic of the thread) that if Messiah has his own 'sheep' and these sheep are the wheat, that the tares planted by the adversary are the 'not the sheep' and that planting could well be the 'SIN of the world John was talking about?

 

[Hammster]

And do you believe (harking back to the topic of the thread) that if Messiah has his own 'sheep' and these sheep are the wheat, that the tares planted by the adversary are the 'not the sheep' and that planting could well be the 'SIN of the world John was talking about?

I know that He has sheep, and that the tares in Matthew 13 cannot become wheat.

 

[Guojing]

The 'church' was started in the wilderness, with the 12 tribes of Jacob.

Church means "called out assembly"

You are correct there, there were called out assemblies at the time of Exodus (Acts 7:38)

But notice I used the term Body of Christ?

The Body of Christ is also a church, a called out assembly,

but not all churches are the Body of Christ.

 

[YahuahSaves]

Literal? I think anyone that's seen a medical show knows our hearts are made of flesh and blood. I think this means the sinful heart that came about when the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil was ingested. He takes that and reverses it.

Yes literal. Have you asked God to take certain sins away and give you a clean heart? He can absolutely make an unforgiving, bitter, angry, stony heart one of flesh again. The feeling is like that of a child.

I believe that there is both a spiritual DNA

You never clarified that in your previous posts. I think I understand what you're trying to say.