What does John 1:29 mean to you?

[Clare73]

So you believe that it's not just a NT thing?

Correct. . .only the born again are saved. . .by faith. . .in the Promise (Jesus Christ, Seed of Ge 15:5, Gal 3:16).

 

[Guojing]

Not sure I understand what you're saying. Do you mean that Jesus came 4000 years or so after the initial sin in the garden to die for the people living at the time who rejected him?

The leaders were put into place from ancient times. Jesus did not rail against them. He did say that whatever they taught (which would be from the Torah) to do but to not do what they did (which was outside of Torah and mostly to their benefit).

And the rejection was due in part to current circumstances in the occupied land.

As the High Priest said it was better for one man to die than the whole nation.

Also one of the reasons they sought to kill him was because of his claims to be God.

Have you read and understood the parable of the tenants, told in all 3 synoptic gospels. (Matthew 21:33-46; Mark 12:1-12; Luke 20:9-19)?

Once you understand that, you will understand what he meant about the sin of national Israel, that Jesus was sent to redeem them from.

 

[Andrewn]

Not all sin is taken away. Only the sin of those He died for are taken away.

This is exactly what the verse does _not_ say.

 

[Hammster]

This is exactly what the verse does _not_ say.

Try again.

 

[Guojing]

The sin you were writing about in Matthew 12 blasphemy of The Holy spirit/the unforgivable sin. Is not or was never an individual sin. It was a national sin that could have only been committed by The nation of Israel. Why the nation of Israel, because they were God's chosen nation. That sin is only found in the context of Matthew 12. Where Jesus does specific miracles, that only the promised Messiah was supposed to be able to do. I am posting a few pages that go into more of an explanation of this below.

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Interesting discussion of what I would consider as an Acts 2 dispensationalist, do you have the weblink of this or the title of this book?

 

[Mark Quayle]

And who would those be?

"All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men(mankind)"

Did he not mean all?

Are you insisting that "all" and "everyone" in every context means absolutely all who ever lived?

"Are they all in the car? Is everyone in the car? Can we go now?"

 

[Lulav]

Are you insisting that "all" and "everyone" in every context means absolutely all who ever lived?

"Are they all in the car? Is everyone in the car? Can we go now?"

All those who sin and blaspheme.

 

[Lulav]

#1 There is totally free will--the power to voluntarily, without external force or constraint, make all choices, including the choice to always be sinless in thought, word and deed.
#2 There is limited free will--the power to voluntarily choose, without external force or constraint, what one prefers.

Man has limited free will, not totally free will.

Ok, so if there's two kinds of 'free will' and man only has the second kind, then who has the first kind?

 

[Lulav]

John 1:29The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Does anyone else see this as NOT talking about mankind's sins?

Also please note we are talking about the word 'sin' here, it is not in the plural, but in the singular.

harmartian vs hamartias

 

[Lulav]

Correct. . .only the born again are saved. . .by faith. . .in the Promise (Jesus Christ, Seed of Ge 15:5, Gal 3:16).

16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ.

So the promise was made to 'your seed who is Messiah?

 

[Mark Quayle]

All those who sin and blaspheme.

The idiom, "all manner of", in Greek and English, as far as I know, is the same as "all sorts of" which doesn't mean "every kind of", but "many kinds of".

 

[Lulav]

The idiom, "all manner of", in Greek and English, as far as I know, is the same as "all sorts of" which doesn't mean "every kind of", but "many kinds of".

Lulav said: And who would those be?​

"All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men (mankind)"​

Did he not mean all?​

Except for the rejection of God's invitation

 

[Mark Quayle]

Lulav said: And who would those be?​

"All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men (mankind)"​

Did he not mean all?​

Except for the rejection of God's invitation

I don't follow what you're saying. Seems we're talking past each other.

 

[d taylor]

Interesting discussion of what I would consider as an Acts 2 dispensationalist, do you have the weblink of this or the title of this book?

Messianic Jewish Ministry Bible Teachings | Ariel Ministries

That can be found in The Footsteps of the Messiah by Arnold Fruchtenbaum
The Footsteps of the Messiah: Revised 2020 Edition: Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum, Christiane K. Jurik, Matthew Lipsey, Matthew Lipsey: 9781951059590: Amazon.com: Books

or in Isrealology
ISRAELOLOGY: The Missing Link In Systematic Theology: Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum, Christiane Jurik, Jesse & Josh Gonzales: 9781935174646: Amazon.com: Books

 

[d taylor]

Interesting discussion of what I would consider as an Acts 2 dispensationalist, do you have the weblink of this or the title of this book?

This also touches on the subject.

The National Repentance of Israel – Grace Evangelical Society

faithalone.org

 

[Clare73]

Ok, so if there's two kinds of 'free will' and man only has the second kind, then who has the first kind?

Adam did. . .and threw it away.
Jesus did. . .and did not throw it away.

 

[Clare73]

16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of sone, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ.

So the promise was made to 'your seed who is Messiah?

Yes, the promise of seed was made to Christ, fulfilled in the church, the body of Christ.

 

[Clare73]

Does anyone else see this as NOT talking about mankind's sins?

Also please note we are talking about the word 'sin' here, it is not in the plural, but in the singular.

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All sin is the same. . .disobedience of God.

 

[AbbaLove]

1 Coronthians 6:19-20

19 Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have received from God?​

You are not your own; 20 you were bought at a price. Therefore glorify God with your body.​

Excellent explanation of "born again" ... A Temple for animal blood sacrifices is no longer needed for atoning of mankind's sin.

To be born again is to receive a call and answer it. The only way I can explain the call is that it rips your inner most parts and shows you how God sees you. You are a sinner and have sinned against Him. You have believed in God but this is totally different. You answer that call initiated by the Spirit by confession and repentance.

On the Ark's top were replicas of 2 cherubim angels looking down in wonder at the center of the lid, called the Mercy Seat. This was where the high priest sprinkled the sacrificial blood once a year on the Day of Atonement as he prayed for God to forgive the sins of his people.

Matthew 27:51 ... "Behold, the veil of the Temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent." This curtain separated the second room called the Holy of Holies from the first room, the Holy Place.​

The meaning should've been clear enuf to Israel's religious leaders. The need for the Jewish sacrificial system for atonement that God had given Israel was done with the *advent of a New Covenant. The perfect finished sacrifice for sin had been accomplished in both a spiritual and literal sense. The barrier separating man's fallen (sinful) nature from the Lord's presence was no longer necessary (Hebrews 9:11—10:22).
* The advent of a "New Covenant" first began with the birth of the King of kings and Lord of lords.

 

[Guojing]

This also touches on the subject.

The National Repentance of Israel – Grace Evangelical Society

faithalone.org

He appears to be an Acts 2 dispensationalist, i.e he believes the Body of Christ began at Pentecost.

Would that be your view as well?