New Zealand bans smoking for next generation

[Occams Barber]

The Guardian 13 Dec 2022
New Zealand passes world-first tobacco law to ban smoking for next generation


New Zealand has introduced a steadily rising smoking age to stop those aged 14 and under from ever being able to legally buy cigarettes in world-first legislation to outlaw smoking for the next generation.

New Zealand is believed to be the first country in the world to implement the annually rising smoking age, ensuring tobacco cannot be sold to anyone born on or after 1 January 2009.

It will be accompanied by a slew of other measures to make smoking less affordable and accessible, including dramatically reducing the legal amount of nicotine in tobacco products and forcing them to be sold only through specialty tobacco stores, rather than corner stores and supermarkets.

The number of stores legally allowed to sell cigarettes will be reduced to a tenth of their existing levels – from 6,000 to just 600 nationwide. The laws passed their final reading on Tuesday evening, and will come into force in 2023, as New Zealand attempts to reach its goal of making the country “smoke-free” by 2025.



More:

New Zealand passes world-first tobacco law to ban smoking for next generation | New Zealand | The Guardian

New Zealand Bans Cigarette Sales to Everyone Born After 2008 - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

 

[Desk trauma]

Organized crime sends their thanks for the new market.

 

[Margaret3110]

Because prohibition of alcohol worked so well ...

 

[Occams Barber]

Organized crime sends their thanks for the new market.

It's true that total prohibition has its dangers.

One significant difference with the NZ process is that it will have the effect of reducing both supply and demand. By gradually reducing access to tobacco products the number of tobacco addicts will also gradually decrease. NZ has already seen a significant reduction in the number of smokers. Smoking has halved in the past decade and daily smokers are now around 8% of the population. There will also be major funding to provide quit smoking support.

There will always be smokers, but future numbers are unlikely to support a significant illegal trade in tobacco.

Australia, which already bans tobacco advertising/promotion and uses standard plain packaging has also reduced its smokers and will (possibly) follow NZ's lead.

OB

 

[Desk trauma]

One significant difference with the NZ process is that it will have the effect of reducing both supply and demand. By gradually reducing access to tobacco products the number of tobacco addicts will also gradually decrease. NZ has already seen a significant reduction in the number of smokers. Smoking has halved in the past decade and daily smokers are now around 8% of the population. There will also be major funding to provide quit smoking support.

There will always be smokers, but future numbers are unlikely to support a significant illegal trade in tobacco.

Worked so well with the other prohibited substances, may as well try it with another one.

 

[Occams Barber]

Because prohibition of alcohol worked so well ...

There are significant differences between alcohol and tobacco.

While tobacco is addictive it isn't an intoxicant - you can't get drunk on a cigarette. This means that tobacco is not a social/party drug. In fact the opposite tends to be true. As we've seen in Australia - as smoking decreases public acceptability of smoking and smokers also decreases.

In Australia smoking is increasingly becoming a dirty habit looked on with a degree of disgust. (I speak as an ex-smoker)

OB

 

[Paidiske]

Fantastic. I'd love to see Australia do likewise.

For sure it will never end all smoking. But why on earth we allow big businesses to make massive profits from wrecking people's health, with no benefit at all, is a mystery to me.

 

[Occams Barber]

Worked so well with the other prohibited substances, may as well try it with another one.

See post#6.

Tobacco has no social advantages while alcohol is a social lubricant with limited addictive potential.

Tobacco is entirely dependant on its addictive qualities. Reduce the opportunity for addiction to occur and you reduce demand.

The motivation for indulging in tobacco is not the same as that for alcohol.

As tobacco becomes less socially acceptable demand decreases. As demand decreases addiction decreases - rinse and repeat.

OB

 

[Tuur]

The Guardian 13 Dec 2022
New Zealand passes world-first tobacco law to ban smoking for next generation


New Zealand has introduced a steadily rising smoking age to stop those aged 14 and under from ever being able to legally buy cigarettes in world-first legislation to outlaw smoking for the next generation.

New Zealand is believed to be the first country in the world to implement the annually rising smoking age, ensuring tobacco cannot be sold to anyone born on or after 1 January 2009.

It will be accompanied by a slew of other measures to make smoking less affordable and accessible, including dramatically reducing the legal amount of nicotine in tobacco products and forcing them to be sold only through specialty tobacco stores, rather than corner stores and supermarkets.

The number of stores legally allowed to sell cigarettes will be reduced to a tenth of their existing levels – from 6,000 to just 600 nationwide. The laws passed their final reading on Tuesday evening, and will come into force in 2023, as New Zealand attempts to reach its goal of making the country “smoke-free” by 2025.



More:

New Zealand passes world-first tobacco law to ban smoking for next generation | New Zealand | The Guardian

New Zealand Bans Cigarette Sales to Everyone Born After 2008 - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

Outlaw smoking but not snuff and chewing tobacco?

 

[Desk trauma]

See post#6.

Tobacco has no social advantages while alcohol is a social lubricant with limited addictive potential.

Tobacco is entirely dependant on its addictive qualities. Reduce the opportunity for addiction to occur and you reduce demand.

The motivation for indulging in tobacco is not the same as that for alcohol.

As tobacco becomes less socially acceptable demand decreases. As demand decreases addiction decreases - rinse and repeat.

OB

Yep, worked perfectly on all the other substances, let's hand more business to violent criminals.

 

[Desk trauma]

If you imagine that this will not result in a black market please see the example of the parts of the US prison systems that have banned smoking tobacco. Guess what's now getting smuggled in to them?

 

[Occams Barber]

Yep, worked perfectly on all the other substances, let's hand more business to violent criminals.

I'm not sure how much simpler I can make this:

• Demand for tobacco is based on its addictiveness
• Reduce access to tobacco and you gradually reduce the number of addicts
• Reduce the number of addicts and you reduce demand
• Reduce demand and you limit the potential for illegal sales

Since its probably impossible to completely eliminate smoking there will always be a small illegal market. Compare the societal cost of a limited illegal tobacco market to the medical and societal costs of the generalised use of tobacco products and gradual tobacco prohibition is a no brainer.

One advantage NZ has compared with a larger country, like the US, is scale. NZ has a much smaller population, making these types of problems more solvable. NZ (and Australia) have a similar advantage (i.e., a smaller population) when it comes to gun control.

Put aside your US based blinkers and see the issue from NZeds point of view.

OB

 

[Desk trauma]

I'm not sure how much simpler I can make this:

Yes, its the same simplistic argument prohibitionists have made for <insert vice here> over and over. It has failed, over and over.

Since its probably impossible to completely eliminate smoking there will always be a small illegal market. Compare the societal cost of a limited illegal tobacco market to the medical and societal costs of the generalised use of tobacco products and gradual tobacco prohibition is a no brainer.

Are lower lung cancer rates worth more violent crime?

 

[Margaret3110]

See post#6.

Tobacco has no social advantages while alcohol is a social lubricant with limited addictive potential.

Alcoholism is real. People die from it (both the drinkers themselves, and sometimes others, for instance in car accidents).

 

[Occams Barber]

If you imagine that this will not result in a black market please see the example of the parts of the US prison systems that have banned smoking tobacco. Guess what's now getting smuggled in to them?

I've specifically said that I expect there to be a limited (i.e., small) illegal market in tobacco products. Even I am not silly enough to think that it can be entirely eliminated.

The core of the NZ system is that it doesn't depend on the cold turkey approach used in your prisons. The idea is to gradually reduce the number of addicts by gradually restricting access over time. The principle is to prevent addiction from occurring in the first place by gradually upping the age restriction.

In a prison not only is a cold turkey approach part of the problem there's also a continuing influx of new addicts (new prisoners).

Add in different social conditions and much higher smoking/addiction rates in your prisons vs NZ and the situations aren't that comparable.

OB

 

[Desk trauma]

I've specifically said that I expect there to be a limited (i.e., small) illegal market in tobacco products. Even I am not silly enough to think that it can be entirely eliminated.

The core of the NZ system is that it doesn't depend on the cold turkey approach used in your prisons. The idea is to gradually reduce the number of addicts by gradually restricting access over time. The principle is to prevent addiction from occurring in the first place by gradually upping the age restriction.

In a prison not only is a cold turkey approach part of the problem there's also a continuing influx of new addicts (new prisoners).

Add in different social conditions and much higher smoking/addiction rates in your prisons vs NZ and the situations aren't that comparable.

OB

Good luck on getting criminals to leave $2 billion on the table.

 

[Occams Barber]

Alcoholism is real. People die from it (both the drinkers themselves, and sometimes others, for instance in car accidents).

Yes - alcoholism is real but it is not the primary reason alcohol is consumed. Smoking on the other hand is almost totally the result of addiction.
OB

 

[Margaret3110]

Yes - alcoholism is real but it is not the primary reason alcohol is consumed. Smoking on the other hand is almost totally the result of addiction.
OB

Well, it will be interesting to see how it turns out.

 

[Occams Barber]

Good luck on getting criminals to leave $2 billion on the table.

I have no idea what you mean by this.

OB

 

[Desk trauma]

I have no idea what you mean by this.

OB

That's the yearly sales of tobacco products in your country, sold to that piddling 8% of the population you mentioned., which I am sure is of zero interest to violent criminals currently bringing in the other prohibited substances.