Reconciled Unto God, NOT Predestinated

[GodsGrace101]

I don’t see “offer” or “reconciliation” in that verse. What else do you have?

Ephesians 1:13
13And now you Gentiles have also heard the truth, the Good News that God saves you. And when you believed in Christ, he identified you as his ownd by giving you the Holy Spirit, whom he promised long ago. 14The Spirit is God’s guarantee that he will give us the inheritance he promised and that he has purchased us to be his own people. He did this so we would praise and glorify him.

Hammster,
You don't see reconciliation in the above because you don't want to.
The Truth is the good news that God saves us.
The truth was told to the Jews and the Gentiles because it was THE GOOD NEWS.
It's not Good News for those who were not chosen - and yet the news was told to all listening.

WHEN we believe in Christ we are identified as God's own by giving us the Holy Spirit.
Whom He promised long ago. THIS was predestined....
the HOW
not the WHO

God has purchased us for His own.

This is RECONCILIATION.

What do YOU have?
To support your belief that God predestinated everyone either to heaven or hell...

 

[GodsGrace101]

Both have choice, unlike what I take to be an implication of your statement, as if predestining some and not others means that the others chose, but those he predestined had no choice. (Unless, that is, your take is just the opposite. But the fact remains, all have will and all have choice.)

Furthermore, the logical proof of predestination is in the mere fact of God being first cause, thus all other fact descended by causation from him —including the salvation of some and the loss of the rest. If God created the lost, he caused the lost. Thus, all that comes to pass is predestined.

Whatever your interpretation or use of 1 Corinthians 15:23, it is not a stand-alone verse; it is like all other scripture, attested to or affirmed by, and judged by the rest of scripture.

Wow.
You have the idea re scripture.
Didn't seem like it in that other thread...
It does all have to gel, doesn't it??

 

[GodsGrace101]

He doesn’t need to predestine anyone to hell.

I love those one sentence replies of yours.
But they don't mean anything.

WHY doesn't God have to predestine anyone to hell?

 

[Mark Quayle]

Wow.
You have the idea re scripture.
Didn't seem like it in that other thread...
It does all have to gel, doesn't it??

Would it be too much to ask you to back up your statements? What other thread? Where do I not seem like I have the idea re scripture?

 

[JAL]

That’s not what elect means.

Correct. The OP waters down the term elect until it has no meaning at all.

Can predestination/election/monergism allow everyone a chance to be saved? No, right? Actually, Yes, as I explained in post 33 on another thread.

 

[John Mullally]

Not at all. Foreknowledge means He knew us beforehand. It doesn’t mean He knows what will happen. That’s omniscience.1

1 Timothy 2:4 clearly states that God desires all to be saved. Try to take God at His word! Foreknowledge in Romans might not have to do with premonitions as it could be speaking of OT saints. Calvin's "doomed from the womb" diatribe contradicts 1 Timothy 2:4. Remember that John says that God is love - how does a God of love predestine any to eternal torment prior to birth as Calivn states - it is monstorous and should be viewed as a red flag as it contradicts Ezekiel 33:11. How is Calvinist doctrine of God pedestining many from birth to eternal torment accepted per scripture? Calvin sent a renowned scientist Servetus to a tortuous death over a minor Theological dispute.

 

[bbbbbbb]

1 Timothy 2:4 clearly states that God desires all to be saved. Try to take God at His word! Romans foreknowledge in Romans could be speaking of OT saints - so much for Calvinism. Again, try to believe 1 Timothy 2:4 - I know it goes against Calvin's "doomed from the womb" diatribe which contradicts 1 Timothy 2:4 and teaches God's eternal hatred towards man. Remember that John says that God is love - how does a God of love predestine any to eternal torment prior to birth as the vacuous Calivn states - it is worse than Hitler and should be viewed as a red flag by those viewing the Bible.. How is Calvinist unscripural doctrine of hatred (i.e. God pedestines many from birth to eternal torment)) accepted per scripture? Calvin sent a renowned scientist Servetus to a tortuous death over a minor Theological dispute - pure evil.

If God wills all to be saved, then that must mean that all will be saved, does it not?

 

[John Mullally]

If God wills all to be saved, then that must mean that all will be saved, does it not?

It dioes not, becaise man's will is involved. It is not purely a matter of God's puppetry.

In Matthew 6:10, Jesus commands His followers to pray that "God's will be done on earth as it is in Heaven.". Being that Jesus commanded His followers to pray that, we know that that in itself is God's will. That prayer is in the present tense. Yet God's will is not being done on earth as it is in heaven in the present tense given that sin, sickness, and destruction are not present in heaven. Therefore, God's will is not being done on earth at the present time.

That is all to say that God's will is currently not performed on earth. Why is that? It is because man's will is also involved. Although God desires all to be saved, God in His sovereignty requires man's co-operation. Again read Mark 16:16. God will not do for man (or force man to do) what he directs man to do.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Calvin per his "doomed from the womb" doctrine states many are destined to eternal torment. That is evil - that is a red flag to the thinking man who knows that God is described as love. How does a God of love predestine any to eternal torment? He does not. Clearly God desires all to be saved in 1 Timothy 2:4. Those who oppose me on 1 Timothy 2:4 (Claire and Quayle) will not argue that point. Instead they wave the white flag and avoid statitng it has already been addressed - no their vacuos ponts were never acknowledged, much less suported by the word of God.

--Will not argue what point? I've argued that 1 Timothy 2:4 doesn't mean what you take it to mean til I'm blue in the face. @Clare73 has done likewise. I've also many times pointed out that it's a really bad way to build doctrine--on your notions of love and justice.

But just so you won't misrepresent me again --hopefully --at least, on this:

1 Timothy 2:4 "...who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."
1. Can be speaking of the fact that, as I have pointed out concerning the term, "double-predestination", merely to kill them eternally is not God's purpose in creating them. His purpose does indeed include their condemnation, but God takes no delight in the death of anyone. To put it in human terms that you might identify with, he 'wishes' they could be saved.
2. Some show that it is speaking of all without distinction, not all without exception --i.e. that God desires for all sorts of people, both Jew and Gentile, to be saved. Others take this further, to show all classes of men.
3. It is also possible by the much larger context to be referring to the fact that God desires for all his own to be saved. I don't put much stock in this use, but I mention it so you know that your look at things is far from the only one.
4. Most curiously, YOU don't accept it at face value. That is, you don't leave it at "God desires that all men be saved". NO! You have to take it beyond that, to imply that God INTENDS that all be saved. The verse does not imply that. It only says that God desires that all men be saved.

But here's someone that can do it better than I can.

1 Timothy 2:4 – An Exegesis​

"First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, (2) for kings and all who are in high position

www.aomin.org

1 Timothy 2:4 clearly states that God desires all to be saved. Try to take God at His word! Romans foreknowledge in Romans could be speaking of OT saints - so much for Calvinism. Again, try to believe 1 Timothy 2:4 - I know it goes against Calvin's "doomed from the womb" diatribe which contradicts 1 Timothy 2:4 and teaches God's eternal hatred towards man. Remember that John says that God is love - how does a God of love predestine any to eternal torment prior to birth as the vacuous Calivn states - it is worse than Hitler and should be viewed as a red flag by those viewing the Bible.. How is Calvinist unscripural doctrine of hatred (i.e. God pedestines many from birth to eternal torment)) accepted per scripture? Calvin sent a renowned scientist Servetus to a tortuous death over a minor Theological dispute - pure evil.

Are you really the sort that will believe just about anything you are told, as long as it supports your bias? If you are, then your use of Scripture is also suspect.

5 Myths about John Calvin​

Like many larger-than-life figures in the history of the church, the memory of the French Reformer John Calvin has been subjected to various distortions that amount to urban legends.

www.crossway.org

 

[John Mullally]

--Will not argue what point? I've argued that 1 Timothy 2:4 doesn't mean what you take it to mean til I'm blue in the face. @Clare73 has done likewise. I've also many times pointed out that it's a really bad way to build doctrine--on your notions of love and justice.

But just so you won't misrepresent me again --hopefully --at least, on this:

1 Timothy 2:4 "...who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."
1. Can be speaking of the fact that, as I have pointed out concerning the term, "double-predestination", merely to kill them eternally is not God's purpose in creating them. His purpose does indeed include their condemnation, but God takes no delight in the death of anyone. To put it in human terms that you might identify with, he 'wishes' they could be saved.
2. Some show that it is speaking of all without distinction, not all without exception --i.e. that God desires for all sorts of people, both Jew and Gentile, to be saved. Others take this further, to show all classes of men.
3. It is also possible by the much larger context to be referring to the fact that God desires for all his own to be saved. I don't put much stock in this use, but I mention it so you know that your look at things is far from the only one.
4. Most curiously, YOU don't accept it at face value. That is, you don't leave it at "God desires that all men be saved". NO! You have to take it beyond that, to imply that God INTENDS that all be saved. The verse does not imply that. It only says that God desires that all men be saved.

But here's someone that can do it better than I can.

1 Timothy 2:4 – An Exegesis​

"First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, (2) for kings and all who are in high position

www.aomin.org


Are you really the sort that will believe just about anything you are told, as long as it supports your bias? If you are, then your use of Scripture is also suspect.

5 Myths about John Calvin​

Like many larger-than-life figures in the history of the church, the memory of the French Reformer John Calvin has been subjected to various distortions that amount to urban legends.

www.crossway.org

Paul speaks plalinly to his protoge that he journeyed with in 1 Timothy 2:4 that God desires all men to be saved and you do not believe Paul. Paul did not imply Jew vs Gentile contention anywhere in the letters to Timothy. That issue was resolved many years earlier by the Apostles in Acts 15 - and what remains of the contention was only kept alive by the Judaizers, who did not accept the Apostles decision. In addition, Timothy had a mixed heritage - he had a Greek father and Jewish mother - so he was not ignorant on the topic.

Given that God desires all to be saved, he is working torwards that end - however, its not a done deal as man's co-operation is required - read Mark 16:16. There are many passages in God's word that are difficult to understand, but 1 Timothy 2:4 is not one of them - although Calvinists hate it as it destroys their theology.

Concerning Calvin being misunderstood: It is more like Calvin causes God to be misunderstood. Calvin attribures evil intentions to God by saying that God predestines some from before birth to eternal torment (Google "doomed from the womb") - whereas God does not plan for or delight in man's torment (Ezekiel 18:32 and Ezekiel 33:11).

 

[Brightfame52]

1 Timothy 2:4 clearly states that God desires all to be saved. Try to take God at His word! Romans foreknowledge in Romans could be speaking of OT saints - so much for Calvinism. Again, try to believe 1 Timothy 2:4 - I know it goes against Calvin's "doomed from the womb" diatribe which contradicts 1 Timothy 2:4 and teaches God's eternal hatred towards man. Remember that John says that God is love - how does a God of love predestine any to eternal torment prior to birth as the vacuous Calivn states - it is worse than Hitler and should be viewed as a red flag by those viewing the Bible.. How is Calvinist unscripural doctrine of hatred (i.e. God pedestines many from birth to eternal torment)) accepted per scripture? Calvin sent a renowned scientist Servetus to a tortuous death over a minor Theological dispute - pure evil.

All His Sheep, God's Elect!

If God wills all to be saved, then that must mean that all will be saved, does it not?

Most people believe God can will something and it[His will] not get done.

 

[bbbbbbb]

It is not, becaise man's will is involved. It is not purely a matter of God's puppetry.

In Matthew 6:10, Jesus commands His followers to pray that "God's will be done on earth as it is in Heaven.". Being that Jesus commanded His followers to pray that, we know that that in itself is God's will. That prayer is in the present tense. Yet God's will is not being done on earth as it is in heaven in the present tense given that sin, sickness, and destruction are not present in heaven. Therefore, God's will is not being done on earth at the present time. Comprende?

That is all to say that God's will is currently not performed on earth. Why is that? It is because man's will is also involved. Although God desires all to be saved, God in His sovereignty requires man's co-operation. Again read Mark 16:16. God will not do for man (or force man to do) what he directs man to do. Comprende?

All His Sheep, God's Elect!

Most people believe God can will something and it[His will] not get done.

Who, exactly, are "most people"?

 

[Brightfame52]

Who, exactly, are "most people"?

Most people. Why is that difficult to understand ? Look up the word most and then people.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Most people. Why is that difficult to understand ? Look up the word most and then people.

Curiously, "most people" now living haven't the least notion as to what you are talking about.

 

[JAL]

Wrong thread

 

[GodsGrace101]

--Will not argue what point? I've argued that 1 Timothy 2:4 doesn't mean what you take it to mean til I'm blue in the face. @Clare73 has done likewise. I've also many times pointed out that it's a really bad way to build doctrine--on your notions of love and justice.

But just so you won't misrepresent me again --hopefully --at least, on this:

1 Timothy 2:4 "...who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."
1. Can be speaking of the fact that, as I have pointed out concerning the term, "double-predestination", merely to kill them eternally is not God's purpose in creating them. His purpose does indeed include their condemnation, but God takes no delight in the death of anyone. To put it in human terms that you might identify with, he 'wishes' they could be saved.
2. Some show that it is speaking of all without distinction, not all without exception --i.e. that God desires for all sorts of people, both Jew and Gentile, to be saved. Others take this further, to show all classes of men.
3. It is also possible by the much larger context to be referring to the fact that God desires for all his own to be saved. I don't put much stock in this use, but I mention it so you know that your look at things is far from the only one.
4. Most curiously, YOU don't accept it at face value. That is, you don't leave it at "God desires that all men be saved". NO! You have to take it beyond that, to imply that God INTENDS that all be saved. The verse does not imply that. It only says that God desires that all men be saved.

But here's someone that can do it better than I can.

1 Timothy 2:4 – An Exegesis​

"First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, (2) for kings and all who are in high position

www.aomin.org


Are you really the sort that will believe just about anything you are told, as long as it supports your bias? If you are, then your use of Scripture is also suspect.

5 Myths about John Calvin​

Like many larger-than-life figures in the history of the church, the memory of the French Reformer John Calvin has been subjected to various distortions that amount to urban legends.

www.crossway.org

Oh my gosh.
James White.
Stop listening to him
And start listening to Jesus.

 

[GodsGrace101]

--Will not argue what point? I've argued that 1 Timothy 2:4 doesn't mean what you take it to mean til I'm blue in the face. @Clare73 has done likewise. I've also many times pointed out that it's a really bad way to build doctrine--on your notions of love and justice.

But just so you won't misrepresent me again --hopefully --at least, on this:

1 Timothy 2:4 "...who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."
1. Can be speaking of the fact that, as I have pointed out concerning the term, "double-predestination", merely to kill them eternally is not God's purpose in creating them. His purpose does indeed include their condemnation, but God takes no delight in the death of anyone. To put it in human terms that you might identify with, he 'wishes' they could be saved.
2. Some show that it is speaking of all without distinction, not all without exception --i.e. that God desires for all sorts of people, both Jew and Gentile, to be saved. Others take this further, to show all classes of men.
3. It is also possible by the much larger context to be referring to the fact that God desires for all his own to be saved. I don't put much stock in this use, but I mention it so you know that your look at things is far from the only one.
4. Most curiously, YOU don't accept it at face value. That is, you don't leave it at "God desires that all men be saved". NO! You have to take it beyond that, to imply that God INTENDS that all be saved. The verse does not imply that. It only says that God desires that all men be saved.

But here's someone that can do it better than I can.

1 Timothy 2:4 – An Exegesis​

"First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, (2) for kings and all who are in high position

www.aomin.org


Are you really the sort that will believe just about anything you are told, as long as it supports your bias? If you are, then your use of Scripture is also suspect.

5 Myths about John Calvin​

Like many larger-than-life figures in the history of the church, the memory of the French Reformer John Calvin has been subjected to various distortions that amount to urban legends.

www.crossway.org

I like to base my understand of Calvinism
On Calvin.

 

[GodsGrace101]

--Will not argue what point? I've argued that 1 Timothy 2:4 doesn't mean what you take it to mean til I'm blue in the face. @Clare73 has done likewise. I've also many times pointed out that it's a really bad way to build doctrine--on your notions of love and justice.

What are we supposed to base our doctrine on but the God of the bible? He is portrayed as being a God of love, mercy and justice.

It's Calvin that removed these attributes from God and totally changed God's nature.

He and others will answer to God about the monster they make Him out to be.

Yes, a monster that no one should be willing to worship.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Most people. Why is that difficult to understand ? Look up the word most and then people.

In the meantime, you look up the words
ALL
WORLD
EVERYONE

 

[GodsGrace101]

If God wills all to be saved, then that must mean that all will be saved, does it not?

Silly reply to a serious post.