Reconciled Unto God, NOT Predestinated

[GodsGrace101]

Oh no, you are resisting the Gospel of Gods Grace, people have just scoffed it calling it calvins theories.

Not much grace in God sending people to hell.
Creating them specifically for that reason
so He could get GLORY somehow.
Like...God needs to torture people to get glory.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Again the acronym tulip is the gospel, you reject it you reject the gospel.

If you say so,
it must be true.

How about posting what you THINK the gospel is?

 

[GodsGrace101]

I would not accuse anyone, including yourself, of misusing those verses. Calvinists assuredly have a different understanding of those verses. This is necessary in order to create a consistent theology. Likewise, there are many favored verses by Calvinists which Arminians see quite differently in order to develop their consistent theology. It is rather like mixing oil and water. There are verses on both sides of this divide which can be used in support of one's argument or are a challenge in order to not contradict what are viewed as primary passages.

And herein lies a huge problem within Protestantism.
HOW do we know who is correct?

Of course I understand that I think I'm right and a reformed thinks he's right.
But there can only be one truth!

Can you think of a solution?
I found one a few years ago.
More than a few years ago.

 

[Brightfame52]

Not much grace in God sending people to hell.
Creating them specifically for that reason
so He could get GLORY somehow.
Like...God needs to torture people to get glory.

Its plenty of Grace in saving some who deserve to go to hell.

 

[Brightfame52]

If you say so,
it must be true.

How about posting what you THINK the gospel is?

If you say so,
it must be true.

How about posting what you THINK the gospel is?

Its true because those truths are founded on the word of truth. You will see at the Judgment.

 

[Brightfame52]

godsgrace 101

How about posting what you THINK the gospel is?

Didnt I just tell you the acronym TULIP are Gospel Truths. Do you want to read something on those truths ?

 

[GodsGrace101]

Its plenty of Grace in saving some who deserve to go to hell.

The one sentence replies.
They really display your knowledge...
How about a REAL answer?

 

[GodsGrace101]

godsgrace 101



Didnt I just tell you the acronym TULIP are Gospel Truths. Do you want to read something on those truths ?

Each one of those "letters" is a lie.
All based on the concept that man does not have free will.
Maybe one day you'll come to know God's truth.

 

[Brightfame52]

The one sentence replies.
They really display your knowledge...
How about a REAL answer?

So you dont believe its plenty of Grace shown by God in saving ungodly sinners from going to hell where they deserve?

 

[Brightfame52]

Each one of those "letters" is a lie.
All based on the concept that man does not have free will.
Maybe one day you'll come to know God's truth.

Each one represents a segment of truth that explains the Gospel of Gods Grace, and you despise it and call it lies, amazing.

 

[GodsGrace101]

So you dont believe its plenty of Grace shown by God in saving ungodly sinners from going to hell where they deserve?

No. Your above statement shows me no grace at all, and the bible is full of statements as to how merciful God is.
Mercy is part of His grace.

We all deserve hell, so why do some go to heaven?
Picking some for some reason we know nothing about is not JUSTICE.

Is God merciful, or not?
Is God just, or not?

John 1:14
14And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Lamentations 3:22
22The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases; his mercies never come to an end;

Exodus 34:6
6The Lord passed before him and proclaimed, “The Lord, the Lord, a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness,

many more...

 

[GodsGrace101]

Each one represents a segment of truth that explains the Gospel of Gods Grace, and you despise it and call it lies, amazing.

Each one is based on the idea of someone from 1,500AD that believed we don't have free will.
REAL free will. Each lie is based on the concept that we don't have free will.

And yes, I believe it's lies, just like YOU believe my belief system is lies.
But, the problem is, one will have to be correct and one will not.
I'd hate to be on the side of being wrong about doctrines that change the nature of God.

So yes, I'm sure it's all lies.
I prefer to believe what Jesus said.

 

[dms1972]

Can I ask a question. I haven't read the whole thread as its quite long.

What do calvinists understand about being in Christ. Do people move from being outside of Christ to being in Him, or is it that some were always in Christ? Sorry if this is a stupid question.

 

[Brightfame52]

No. Your above statement shows me no grace at all, and the bible is full of statements as to how merciful God is.
Mercy is part of His grace.

We all deserve hell, so why do some go to heaven?
Picking some for some reason we know nothing about is not JUSTICE.

Is God merciful, or not?
Is God just, or not?

John 1:14
14And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Lamentations 3:22
22The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases; his mercies never come to an end;

Exodus 34:6
6The Lord passed before him and proclaimed, “The Lord, the Lord, a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness,

many more...

Then you dont believe in salvation by grace.

 

[Brightfame52]

Each one is based on the idea of someone from 1,500AD that believed we don't have free will.
REAL free will. Each lie is based on the concept that we don't have free will.

And yes, I believe it's lies, just like YOU believe my belief system is lies.
But, the problem is, one will have to be correct and one will not.
I'd hate to be on the side of being wrong about doctrines that change the nature of God.

So yes, I'm sure it's all lies.
I prefer to believe what Jesus said.

Again if you reject TULIP and what those teachings set forth, you reject the Gospel of Gods Grace.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Then you dont believe in salvation by grace.

Everything God does is by His grace.
That sentence doesn't answer anything...

Try this Brightfame:

God makes us be born sinners.
Apparently, according to the reformed, God is responsible for making us that way since He predestined Adam's fall.
So God made us to be sinful.
So why does He hold us responsible for our sins?

Why would a just God command us to be holy, when it was HE that made us sinners?

 

[Brightfame52]

Everything God does is by His grace.
That sentence doesn't answer anything...

Try this Brightfame:

God makes us be born sinners.
Apparently, according to the reformed, God is responsible for making us that way since He predestined Adam's fall.
So God made us to be sinful.
So why does He hold us responsible for our sins?

Why would a just God command us to be holy, when it was HE that made us sinners?

Then how can you not believe in the Gospel of Gods Grace which TULIP Truths proclaim?

 

[GodsGrace101]

Then how can you not believe in the Gospel of Gods Grace which TULIP Truths proclaim?

Because I don't believe TULIP is biblical.

TOTAL DEPRAVITY We all agree that man is born separated from God...call it depraved, the sin nature, original sin, whatever.
Calvin believed in TOTAL depravity because it permeates our entire being. We all agree with that too.

The part other Christians cannot agree with is the idea that man is so depraved that he cannot search for God.
Both the OT and the NT prove this idea to be incorrect. I could list many verses if you need them.


UNC0NDITIONAL ELECTION How can a just God just pick and choose who will be saved based on NOTHING?
Of course God elects those that will be saved...but it's based on SOMETHING. The Something is the death and resurrection of Jesus.
Those who believe will be saved and those who do not believe will not be saved. 1 Cor 15 is very clear about this.
God elects us based on whether or not we believe. This is the working of a just God.


LIMITED ATONEMENT Jesus died for the whole world. But this concept cannot be spoken of in a few sentences, except to say that Jesus died for all, as is stated a few times in the NT, for WHOEVER wants to take ADVANTAGE of His death. His death was sufficient for all humans...


IRRISISTABLE GRACE And here we have the crux of the matter. Do we have free will or not? Could God's grace be rejected?
Jesus said it could. He cried over jerusalem. He said they were not WILLING to accept Him. This means we have free will.
Some in the NT were willing to believe and others were not ( Acts 28:24)

God does not force us to love Him.
Forced love is of no value - not for humans and certainly not for God.

PERSEVERANCE OF THE SAINTS There are many verses that state we can forfeit our salvation...but of course the reformed cannot accept this as it would turn upside down the entire belief system.


All of the above depends on whether or not we have free will.
If we do not, then it would all be correct.

If we do have free will, then none of it is true.

 

[Brightfame52]

Because I don't believe TULIP is biblical.

TOTAL DEPRAVITY We all agree that man is born separated from God...call it depraved, the sin nature, original sin, whatever.
Calvin believed in TOTAL depravity because it permeates our entire being. We all agree with that too.

The part other Christians cannot agree with is the idea that man is so depraved that he cannot search for God.
Both the OT and the NT prove this idea to be incorrect. I could list many verses if you need them.


UNC0NDITIONAL ELECTION How can a just God just pick and choose who will be saved based on NOTHING?
Of course God elects those that will be saved...but it's based on SOMETHING. The Something is the death and resurrection of Jesus.
Those who believe will be saved and those who do not believe will not be saved. 1 Cor 15 is very clear about this.
God elects us based on whether or not we believe. This is the working of a just God.


LIMITED ATONEMENT Jesus died for the whole world. But this concept cannot be spoken of in a few sentences, except to say that Jesus died for all, as is stated a few times in the NT, for WHOEVER wants to take ADVANTAGE of His death. His death was sufficient for all humans...


IRRISISTABLE GRACE And here we have the crux of the matter. Do we have free will or not? Could God's grace be rejected?
Jesus said it could. He cried over jerusalem. He said they were not WILLING to accept Him. This means we have free will.
Some in the NT were willing to believe and others were not ( Acts 28:24)

God does not force us to love Him.
Forced love is of no value - not for humans and certainly not for God.

PERSEVERANCE OF THE SAINTS There are many verses that state we can forfeit our salvation...but of course the reformed cannot accept this as it would turn upside down the entire belief system.


All of the above depends on whether or not we have free will.
If we do not, then it would all be correct.

If we do have free will, then none of it is true.

To say that you don't believe that tulip truth is biblical is saying that you don't believe the Gospel of God's Grace is biblical.

 

[GodsGrace101]

To say that you don't believe that tulip truth is biblical is saying that you don't believe the Gospel of God's Grace is biblical.

You're sounding like a broken record.
Good night.
And may you come to know,the loving God that made you.