Reconciled Unto God, NOT Predestinated

[bbbbbbb]

Silly reply to a serious post.

There are many very serious universalists who would be deeply offended by this sort of response.

 

[GodsGrace101]

There are many very serious universalists who would be deeply offended by this sort of response.

Universalism is not biblical.
Calvinism is not biblical..
Both require twisting of scripture.

God wishes that all be saved.
Why aren't all saved?
Because salvation is conditional...
Unconditional Election distorts scripture and Jesus' atoning sacrifice.

 

[Brightfame52]

In the meantime, you look up the words
ALL
WORLD
EVERYONE

Why, I know those words quit well, probably understand them better than you.

 

[Brightfame52]

Universalism is not biblical.
Calvinism is not biblical..
Both require twisting of scripture.

God wishes that all be saved.
Why aren't all saved?
Because salvation is conditional...
Unconditional Election distorts scripture and Jesus' atoning sacrifice.

This is error, The Truths that the acronym TULIP set forth are nothing less than the Gospel of Gods Grace in Christ. If you deny that, I believe you have been deceived, by you know who.

 

[UsernamedNamedUser]

Is a human free to follow his own will? Yes, but is he free to choose his own will? No, God gives that to him when He creates him. A man cannot deny himself, and God made that self. So yes a human is free to follow himself, but God made that self he follows.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Universalism is not biblical.
Calvinism is not biblical..
Both require twisting of scripture.

God wishes that all be saved.
Why aren't all saved?
Because salvation is conditional...
Unconditional Election distorts scripture and Jesus' atoning sacrifice.

It may seem quite strange to you, but traditional universalists, some of whom post in the non-Christian theology board here at CF, believe that universalism is, indeed, quite biblical, and employ the very verse that you have used to support your own view.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Why, I know those words quit well, probably understand them better than you.

Let's try this:

I WILL DRAW ALL MEN TO ME.
John 12:32
New International Version
And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”

New Living Translation
And when I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw everyone to myself.”

English Standard Version
And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”

Berean Standard Bible
And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw everyone to Myself.”

Berean Literal Bible
And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all to Myself."

King James Bible
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

New King James Version
And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.”


ALL:

◄ 3956. pas ►

Strong's Concordance pas: all, every​ Original Word: πᾶς, πᾶσα, πᾶν Part of Speech: Adjective Transliteration: pas Phonetic Spelling: (pas) Definition: all, every Usage: all, the whole, every kind of. HELPS Word-studies 3956 pás – each, every; each "part(s) of a totality" (L & N, 1, 59.24). 3956 /pás ("each, every") means "all" in the sense of "each (every) part that applies." The emphasis of the total picture then is on "one piece at a time." 365 (ananeóō) then focuses on the part(s) making up the whole – viewing the whole in terms of the individual parts. We can discuss what ALL means in each and every case in the NT, But Jesus meant what He said, and in this case it's supported by the above. Jesus meant that He would draw ALL MEN to Himself... Not just some, or parts of, or peoples, etc.. ]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] FOR GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD John 3:16 New International Version For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. New Living Translation “For this is how God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. English Standard Version “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. Berean Standard Bible For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. Berean Literal Bible For God so loved the world that He gave the only begotten Son, so that everyone believing in Him should not perish, but should have eternal life. King James Bible For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. New King James Version For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. WORLD 2889. kosmos ► Strong's Concordance kosmos: order, the world​ Original Word: κόσμος, ου, ὁ Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine Transliteration: kosmos Phonetic Spelling: (kos'-mos) Definition: order, the world Usage: the world, universe; worldly affairs; the inhabitants of the world; adornment. HELPS Word-studies 2889 kósmos (literally, "something ordered") – properly, an "ordered system" (like the universe, creation); the world. [The English term "cosmetic" is derived from 2889 /kósmos, i.e. the order ("ensemble") used of treating the face as a whole.] ]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] EVERYONE Everyone who seeks, find. Matthew 7:8 New International Version For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened. New Living Translation For everyone who asks, receives. Everyone who seeks, finds. And to everyone who knocks, the door will be opened. English Standard Version For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened. Berean Standard Bible For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened. Berean Literal Bible For everyone asking receives; and the one seeking finds; and to the one knocking, it will be opened. King James Bible For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. EVERYONE ◄ 3956. pas ► Strong's Concordance pas: all, every​ Original Word: πᾶς, πᾶσα, πᾶν Part of Speech: Adjective Transliteration: pas Phonetic Spelling: (pas) Definition: all, every Usage: all, the whole, every kind of. HELPS Word-studies 3956 pás – each, every; each "part(s) of a totality" (L & N, 1, 59.24). 3956 /pás ("each, every") means "all" in the sense of "each (every) part that applies." The emphasis of the total picture then is on "one piece at a time." 365 (ananeóō) then focuses on the part(s) making up the whole – viewing the whole in terms of the individual parts. Do you agree with the bible and with Strong's? Or do you have your own version?

 

[GodsGrace101]

This is error, The Truths that the acronym TULIP set forth are nothing less than the Gospel of Gods Grace in Christ. If you deny that, I believe you have been deceived, by you know who.

You are following a different gospel than every other Christian in the world.
The reformed are the only persons that believe in Calvin's theories.
This should make one sit up and take notice.

 

[GodsGrace101]

It may seem quite strange to you, but traditional universalists, some of whom post in the non-Christian theology board here at CF, believe that universalism is, indeed, quite biblical, and employ the very verse that you have used to support your own view.

Hey b,
But YOU know they are not correct.
You see, the bible has to be understood as a whole...not in parts.
The verse MUST reconcile with the rest of scripture.
This is how we can know if we believe truth or if we believe something untrue.
We have to twist scripture and force it to reconcile....
this is not how exegesis is done.

For instance it says that God desires that all men be saved: 1 Tim 2:4
But throughout the NT we find Jesus Himself stating that IF we believe and are baptized we will be saved,
if we do not believe, we will not be saved.
Mark 16:16

How many believe and are baptized?
Everyone?
No.
So 1 Tim 2:4 cannot mean what the universalists claim.
Ditto for Calvinist verses that are supposedly used for support...
They just do not reconcile with the rest of scripture.
(the way Calvinists understand them).

 

[Brightfame52]

Let's try this:

I WILL DRAW ALL MEN TO ME.
John 12:32
New International Version
And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”

New Living Translation
And when I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw everyone to myself.”

English Standard Version
And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”

Berean Standard Bible
And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw everyone to Myself.”

Berean Literal Bible
And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all to Myself."

King James Bible
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

New King James Version
And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.”


ALL:

​

◄ 3956. pas ►

​

Strong's Concordance pas: all, every​ Original Word: πᾶς, πᾶσα, πᾶν Part of Speech: Adjective Transliteration: pas Phonetic Spelling: (pas) Definition: all, every Usage: all, the whole, every kind of. HELPS Word-studies 3956 pás – each, every; each "part(s) of a totality" (L & N, 1, 59.24). 3956 /pás ("each, every") means "all" in the sense of "each (every) part that applies." The emphasis of the total picture then is on "one piece at a time." 365 (ananeóō) then focuses on the part(s) making up the whole – viewing the whole in terms of the individual parts. We can discuss what ALL means in each and every case in the NT, But Jesus meant what He said, and in this case it's supported by the above. Jesus meant that He would draw ALL MEN to Himself... Not just some, or parts of, or peoples, etc.. ]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] FOR GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD John 3:16 New International Version For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. New Living Translation “For this is how God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. English Standard Version “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. Berean Standard Bible For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. Berean Literal Bible For God so loved the world that He gave the only begotten Son, so that everyone believing in Him should not perish, but should have eternal life. King James Bible For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. New King James Version For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. WORLD ​ 2889. kosmos ► ​ Strong's Concordance kosmos: order, the world​ Original Word: κόσμος, ου, ὁ Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine Transliteration: kosmos Phonetic Spelling: (kos'-mos) Definition: order, the world Usage: the world, universe; worldly affairs; the inhabitants of the world; adornment. HELPS Word-studies 2889 kósmos (literally, "something ordered") – properly, an "ordered system" (like the universe, creation); the world. [The English term "cosmetic" is derived from 2889 /kósmos, i.e. the order ("ensemble") used of treating the face as a whole.] ]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] EVERYONE Everyone who seeks, find. Matthew 7:8 ​ New International Version For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened. New Living Translation For everyone who asks, receives. Everyone who seeks, finds. And to everyone who knocks, the door will be opened. English Standard Version For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened. Berean Standard Bible For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened. Berean Literal Bible For everyone asking receives; and the one seeking finds; and to the one knocking, it will be opened. King James Bible For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. EVERYONE ​ ◄ 3956. pas ► ​ Strong's Concordance pas: all, every​ Original Word: πᾶς, πᾶσα, πᾶν Part of Speech: Adjective Transliteration: pas Phonetic Spelling: (pas) Definition: all, every Usage: all, the whole, every kind of. HELPS Word-studies 3956 pás – each, every; each "part(s) of a totality" (L & N, 1, 59.24). 3956 /pás ("each, every") means "all" in the sense of "each (every) part that applies." The emphasis of the total picture then is on "one piece at a time." 365 (ananeóō) then focuses on the part(s) making up the whole – viewing the whole in terms of the individual parts. Do you agree with the bible and with Strong's? Or do you have your own version?

I know the words, you are wasting space.

 

[Brightfame52]

You are following a different gospel than every other Christian in the world.
The reformed are the only persons that believe in Calvin's theories.
This should make one sit up and take notice.

Oh no, you are resisting the Gospel of Gods Grace, people have just scoffed it calling it calvins theories.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Let's try this:

I WILL DRAW ALL MEN TO ME.
John 12:32
New International Version
And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”

New Living Translation
And when I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw everyone to myself.”

English Standard Version
And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”

Berean Standard Bible
And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw everyone to Myself.”

Berean Literal Bible
And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all to Myself."

King James Bible
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

New King James Version
And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.”


ALL:

​

◄ 3956. pas ►

​

Strong's Concordance pas: all, every​ Original Word: πᾶς, πᾶσα, πᾶν Part of Speech: Adjective Transliteration: pas Phonetic Spelling: (pas) Definition: all, every Usage: all, the whole, every kind of. HELPS Word-studies 3956 pás – each, every; each "part(s) of a totality" (L & N, 1, 59.24). 3956 /pás ("each, every") means "all" in the sense of "each (every) part that applies." The emphasis of the total picture then is on "one piece at a time." 365 (ananeóō) then focuses on the part(s) making up the whole – viewing the whole in terms of the individual parts. We can discuss what ALL means in each and every case in the NT, But Jesus meant what He said, and in this case it's supported by the above. Jesus meant that He would draw ALL MEN to Himself... Not just some, or parts of, or peoples, etc.. ]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] FOR GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD John 3:16 New International Version For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. New Living Translation “For this is how God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. English Standard Version “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. Berean Standard Bible For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. Berean Literal Bible For God so loved the world that He gave the only begotten Son, so that everyone believing in Him should not perish, but should have eternal life. King James Bible For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. New King James Version For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. WORLD ​ 2889. kosmos ► ​ Strong's Concordance kosmos: order, the world​ Original Word: κόσμος, ου, ὁ Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine Transliteration: kosmos Phonetic Spelling: (kos'-mos) Definition: order, the world Usage: the world, universe; worldly affairs; the inhabitants of the world; adornment. HELPS Word-studies 2889 kósmos (literally, "something ordered") – properly, an "ordered system" (like the universe, creation); the world. [The English term "cosmetic" is derived from 2889 /kósmos, i.e. the order ("ensemble") used of treating the face as a whole.] ]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] EVERYONE Everyone who seeks, find. Matthew 7:8 ​ New International Version For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened. New Living Translation For everyone who asks, receives. Everyone who seeks, finds. And to everyone who knocks, the door will be opened. English Standard Version For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened. Berean Standard Bible For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened. Berean Literal Bible For everyone asking receives; and the one seeking finds; and to the one knocking, it will be opened. King James Bible For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. EVERYONE ​ ◄ 3956. pas ► ​ Strong's Concordance pas: all, every​ Original Word: πᾶς, πᾶσα, πᾶν Part of Speech: Adjective Transliteration: pas Phonetic Spelling: (pas) Definition: all, every Usage: all, the whole, every kind of. HELPS Word-studies 3956 pás – each, every; each "part(s) of a totality" (L & N, 1, 59.24). 3956 /pás ("each, every") means "all" in the sense of "each (every) part that applies." The emphasis of the total picture then is on "one piece at a time." 365 (ananeóō) then focuses on the part(s) making up the whole – viewing the whole in terms of the individual parts. Do you agree with the bible and with Strong's? Or do you have your own version?

You have done a superlative job in presenting the biblical case for universalism. Kudos to you!

You have done a superlative job in presenting the biblical case for universalism. Kudos to you!

 

[GodsGrace101]

I know the words, you are wasting space.

Just because YOU think you know something...
does not mean you do.

No space is wasted when the words God wants us to know are spoken.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Oh no, you are resisting the Gospel of Gods Grace, people have just scoffed it calling it calvins theories.

Calvin or not...
you are following a different Jesus/Gospel.

There is no GOOD NEWS in your gospel.

In fact, it becomes totally irrelevant and unnecessary since it is God who will choose whom He will.
No need for any gospel,
No need for any missionary work,
No need for witnessing or testimonies.

God will bring about His will...as YOU would say.
And since man has NO SAY in the matter...
the bible is totally irrelevant.

 

[GodsGrace101]

You have done a superlative job in presenting the biblical case for universalism. Kudos to you!

I do think you forgot to read the entire post.
Are you a universalist BTW?

 

[bbbbbbb]

I do think you forgot to read the entire post.
Are you a universalist BTW?

I am not a universalist nor a unitarian. However, I lived long enough in New England to interact with both sides of that theological coin. The conservative universalists use the selfsame set of Bible verses to defend their theology.

BTW, I did read the entire post and understand that the intention was not to promote universalism. However, it hardly takes a leap of imagination to view these verses as being foundational to an understanding that God is going to save ALL people.

 

[GodsGrace101]

I am not a universalist nor a unitarian. However, I lived long enough in New England to interact with both sides of that theological coin. The conservative universalists use the selfsame set of Bible verses to defend their theology.

BTW, I did read the entire post and understand that the intention was not to promote universalism. However, it hardly takes a leap of imagination to view these verses as being foundational to an understanding that God is going to save ALL people.

Ah.
But there are conditions....

Don't calvinists misuse those verses?
Are you reformed?

 

[bbbbbbb]

Ah.
But there are conditions....

Don't calvinists misuse those verses?
Are you reformed?

I would not accuse anyone, including yourself, of misusing those verses. Calvinists assuredly have a different understanding of those verses. This is necessary in order to create a consistent theology. Likewise, there are many favored verses by Calvinists which Arminians see quite differently in order to develop their consistent theology. It is rather like mixing oil and water. There are verses on both sides of this divide which can be used in support of one's argument or are a challenge in order to not contradict what are viewed as primary passages.

 

[black-pawn]

Nope.

Yes it is.
Because that is what scripture teaches.

Your reply is poor in content. Expand your thoughts a little more clearly because just saying no, means all you have is an opinion, but it is not biblical

 

[Brightfame52]

Calvin or not...
you are following a different Jesus/Gospel.

There is no GOOD NEWS in your gospel.

In fact, it becomes totally irrelevant and unnecessary since it is God who will choose whom He will.
No need for any gospel,
No need for any missionary work,
No need for witnessing or testimonies.

God will bring about His will...as YOU would say.
And since man has NO SAY in the matter...
the bible is totally irrelevant.

Again the acronym tulip is the gospel, you reject it you reject the gospel.