Reconciled Unto God, NOT Predestinated

[RobertPate]

If one believes that they have been reconciled unto God by Jesus Christ, they will reject the Calvinist doctrine of predestination. It is not possible to believe both doctrines. Why would one believe that they have been predestinated by God and then believe that they have been reconciled unto God by Jesus Christ?

There is no scripture anywhere in the Bible that says anyone has been predestinated to salvation by God. The word "Predestination" only appears in the Bible about 4 times, while words like "faith" and "believe" appear hundreds of times.

Scriptures that Calvinist use to try and prove predestination.

Ephesians 1:4. According as he has chosen us in him before the foundation of the world.
God chose all of humanity in Jesus Christ before the foundation of the world. Jesus is the savior of the whole world, John 3:17.

Ephesians 1:5. Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ.
All Christians are adopted into Jesus Christ when they first believe.

Ephesians 1:11. In whom also we have obtained an inheritance being predestinated according to the purpose of him who works all things after the counsel of his own will. This scripture applies to all believers, 1 Peter 1:4. Not just Calvinist.

Romans 8:29. For whom he did foreknow, he also predestinated to be conformed to the image of his Son. All believers are being conformed to the image of Jesus Christ. It is the Holy Spirit working in their lives, Ephesians 2:10.

Romans 8:30. Moreover, whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified. We are all called to come to Christ. The Holy Spirit is in the world calling all to come to Christ. Not just some.

There is no scripture there or in the Bible that says God predestinates some to heaven and others to hell.

Who are the elect?

The elect are those that have elected (chosen) to believe in Jesus for their salvation by their own free will.

Jesus has ALREADY reconciled us and the world unto God, no predestination needed.

"And all things are of God, who has reconciled us and the world unto to himself by Jesus Christ" 2 Corinthians 5:18-19.

How does Jesus reconcile us and the world unto God? Jesus, as God's new Adam and our representative has fulfilled all of the demands of God's Holy Law. Having fulfilled the law, he abolished it, Ephesians 2:15. Jesus has atoned for our sins and the sins of the whole word, 1 John 2:2. We now stand in God's Holy Court as perfect and complete in him, Colossians 2:10.

 

[Hammster]

If one believes that they have been reconciled unto God by Jesus Christ, they will reject the Calvinist doctrine of predestination.

Nope.

It is not possible to believe both doctrines.

Yes it is.

Why would one believe that they have been predestinated by God and then believe that they have been reconciled unto God by Jesus Christ?

Because that is what scripture teaches.

 

[Hammster]

The elect are those that have elected (chosen) to believe in Jesus for their salvation by their own free will.

That’s not what elect means.

 

[RobertPate]

Nope.

Yes it is.
Because that is what scripture teaches.

Naaa, Reconciliation is about what Jesus has done to reconcile fallen man to God.

Predestination is supposedly what God did before the foundation of the world. Predestination does away with the Gospel and justification by faith. It also does away with the judgment. Why judge those that have been predestinated?

 

[Hammster]

Naaa, Reconciliation is about what Jesus has done to reconcile fallen man to God.

Predestination is supposedly what God did before the foundation of the world. Predestination does away with the Gospel and justification by faith. It also does away with the judgment. Why judge those that have been predestinated?

Reconciliation is the means by which He brings the predestined to Himself.

 

[RobertPate]

Reconciliation is the means by which He brings the predestined to Himself.

No one will be reconciled to God unless they receive the offer of reconciliation. In the Gospel Jesus provides reconciliation for all of humanity by fulfilling all of the demands of God's law and atoning for their sins, Romans 3:28.

 

[Hammster]

No one will be reconciled to God unless they receive the offer of reconciliation. In the Gospel Jesus provides reconciliation for all of humanity by fulfilling all of the demands of God's law and atoning for their sins, Romans 3:28.

Show me “offer of reconciliation”.

 

[RobertPate]

Show me “offer of reconciliation”.

We receive the offer of reconciliation when we receive Christ and his Gospel, Ephesians 1:13.

 

[Hammster]

We receive the offer of reconciliation when we receive Christ and his Gospel, Ephesians 1:13.

I don’t see “offer” or “reconciliation” in that verse. What else do you have?

 

[RobertPate]

I don’t see “offer” or “reconciliation” in that verse. What else do you have?

The word "Reconciliation" also means that at one time we were at odds with God. But because of the doing and the dying of Jesus who has reconciled us to God. God now extends his hand to us to be reconciled to him. Paul wrote, "We pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled unto God" 2 Corinthians 5:20. Jesus is God's reconciler.

 

[Blade]

Question why is it "Calvinist doctrine of predestination"? Oh and no I do not believe it.. yet there is a truth here There are many that are not Calvinist that believe this. Rev no one written in the Lambs book from the foundation of the world will worship the beast. Yet oddly I still have a choice yet I was written in the lambs book YES AMEN!

This is casting but you can be preaching and the lord takes you somewhere else. Where all there see you hear you preaching yet you are also with the lord somewhere else. He is out side of time. Right now He is in the past and here and in the future. We read Rev what Christ showed John that will happen. Some of those people in heaven that John saw and told us about are not even born yet but will be in heaven saved. Do they not have a choice? Yep.

Yes yes I understand predestination by some as if they were born to go in one direction vs others born to go the other way. That is not true.. if I said it right sorry.

 

[RobertPate]

Question why is it "Calvinist doctrine of predestination"? Oh and no I do not believe it.. yet there is a truth here There are many that are not Calvinist that believe this. Rev no one written in the Lambs book from the foundation of the world will worship the beast. Yet oddly I still have a choice yet I was written in the lambs book YES AMEN!

This is casting but you can be preaching and the lord takes you somewhere else. Where all there see you hear you preaching yet you are also with the lord somewhere else. He is out side of time. Right now He is in the past and here and in the future. We read Rev what Christ showed John that will happen. Some of those people in heaven that John saw and told us about are not even born yet but will be in heaven saved. Do they not have a choice? Yep.

Yes yes I understand predestination by some as if they were born to go in one direction vs others born to go the other way. That is not true.. if I said it right sorry.

What kind of a God would predestinate people to hell before they were born?

 

[Hammster]

The word "Reconciliation" also means that at one time we were at odds with God. But because of the doing and the dying of Jesus who has reconciled us to God. God now extends his hand to us to be reconciled to him. Paul wrote, "We pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled unto God" 2 Corinthians 5:20. Jesus is God's reconciler.

Why are you jumping all over? Stick with Ephesians 1:13 and make your case. You said it said something to support your view. Let’s see it.

 

[Hammster]

What kind of a God would predestinate people to hell before they were born?

He doesn’t need to predestine anyone to hell.

 

[RobertPate]

Why are you jumping all over? Stick with Ephesians 1:13 and make your case. You said it said something to support your view. Let’s see it.

Ephesians 1:13 is a very important scripture.

It tells us that we are saved by hearing the Gospel and believing the Gospel. The results is that we are sealed with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is God's mark of ownership.

 

[Hammster]

Ephesians 1:13 is a very important scripture.

It tells us that we are saved by hearing the Gospel and believing the Gospel. The results is that we are sealed with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is God's mark of ownership.

I agree. How do you think it proves your point?

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

No one will be reconciled to God unless they receive the offer of reconciliation. In the Gospel Jesus provides reconciliation for all of humanity by fulfilling all of the demands of God's law and atoning for their sins, Romans 3:28.

You really lack understanding on all these issues.

 

[Jipsah]

There is no scripture anywhere in the Bible that says anyone has been predestinated to salvation by God.

And when you say "no Scripture, you mean "not very much".

The word "Predestination" only appears in the Bible about 4 times, while words like "faith" and "believe" appear hundreds of times.

How many instances would it take to make it true?

Ephesians 1:4. According as he has chosen us in him before the foundation of the world.
God chose all of humanity in Jesus Christ before the foundation of the world. Jesus is the savior of the whole world, John 3:17.

Well, if you and the Damnationists are correct, being chosen by God isn't about a whole lot, since most of those "chosen" will roast in hell forever. I think what you're dealing with here is trying to declaw some Scripture that interferes with your doctrine.

Ephesians 1:5. Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ.
All Christians are adopted into Jesus Christ when they first believe.

Which completely ignores the word "predestinated" in that verse. That's simply modifying the verse to suit your doctrine. Naughty naughty!

Ephesians 1:11. In whom also we have obtained an inheritance being predestinated according to the purpose of him who works all things after the counsel of his own will. This scripture applies to all believers, 1 Peter 1:4. Not just Calvinist.

Apparently the 'Not just Calvinist" bit is meant to obscure the fact that here is yet another clumsy attempt to evade the fact that once again St. Paul has said that God has foreordained (like that word better, perhaps?) something . Maybe it's not just those Crafty Calvinists who believe those Scriptures, maybe it's Paulists.

Romans 8:29. For whom he did foreknow, he also predestinated to be conformed to the image of his Son. All believers are being conformed to the image of Jesus Christ. It is the Holy Spirit working in their lives, Ephesians 2:10.

Of course they are, because God has predestined it to be so.

Romans 8:30. Moreover, whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified. We are all called to come to Christ. The Holy Spirit is in the world calling all to come to Christ. Not just some.

Help me, are you a Universalist now? It sounds like it.

There is no scripture there or in the Bible that says God predestinates some to heaven and others to hell.

Or whether or not they'll like watermelon.

Who are the elect? The elect are those that have elected (chosen) to believe in Jesus for their salvation by their own free will.

For by Free Will are ye saved, through faith, and that of yourselves. It was made available by God, but was gained by your own wise choices, thus any man may boast. Ephesians 2:8-9 New Idiotical Version

Jesus has ALREADY reconciled us and the world unto God, no predestination needed.

Well I reckon that's one less thing for God to worry about. We just took the job off His hands.

This is where you're supposed to "explain" that "predestinated" doesn't really mean "destined, fated, or determined beforehand.", it really means anythingelsejustsoitdoesn'tsoundlikeGodforeordainedanything.

 

[Jipsah]

He doesn’t need to predestine anyone to hell.

That's one thing that's chosen by Free Will.

 

[Jipsah]

What kind of a God would predestinate people to hell before they were born?

yep, that's the kind of decision that must be entrusted to fallen humans. God just can't be trusted with that kind of thing. He'll be chucking babies and innocents into perdition willy-nilly if we leave it to Him.