Ten Reasons I'm a Sabbatarian [moved thread]

[Leaf473]

please do ask --

Is 56:
6 “Also the foreigners who join themselves to the Lord,
To attend to His service and to love the name of the Lord,
To be His servants, every one who keeps the Sabbath so as not to profane it,
And holds firmly to My covenant;
7 Even those I will bring to My holy mountain,
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable on My altar;
For My house will be called a house of prayer for all the peoples.”
8 The Lord God, who gathers the dispersed of Israel, declares,
“I will yet gather others to them, to those already gathered.”


The liturgy of worship in the OT included animal sacrifices... since Christ had not yet been crucified.

A lot of Christians today will admit to this Bible fact.

No wonder then that we see gentiles worshiping in the house of God - in synagogues "Sabbath after Sabbath" in Acts 13, in Acts 17 and in Acts 18:4

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IN Matt 21 Jesus addresses the bartering and cheating going on the temple court with money changers and those who sold animals for sacrifice at extortion prices - His claim is that Is 56 is making the house of God - a house of prayer for all nations "not just Jews" and they should not be extorting people in the court of the temple because it is a house of prayer... and not just for Jews to pray.



You may have to think about it for a few more minutes in that case... start by reading Acts 13, 17 and 18.



Nothing in those chapters says that gentiles are to join in prayer in God's house UNTIL Jesus comes and dies for their sins at which point God rejects them.

Rather they are welcomed in worship in the Lord's house EVEN AFTER the resurrection of Christ - just as the Acts 18:4 text shows... (i.e. all the details you seem to be ignoring in your response - which is odd since you already admit to this condition for gentiles under the gospel. Have you thought your post through??? or are you not really interested in the point you appear to make - at first??)

___________________________

Rather they are welcomed in worship in the Lord's house EVEN AFTER the resurrection of Christ - just as the Acts 18:4 text shows...

Acts 18
He reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath and persuaded Jews and Greeks.

The house of God in Isaiah 56 is the temple in Jerusalem, not a synagogue.

"I will bring these to my holy mountain"

 

[Leaf473]

You only explained the pre-cross situation in Post #1399, and I was asking if the physical temple in Jerusalem is still the House of God. That part was not answered but it’s okay. We know the House of God is us (1 Corinthians 3:16). So the subject defined in the book of Isaiah was changed by Paul.

And I can go with that way of looking at it, too. The house of God becomes the Church, the body of Christ. God's holy mountain becomes the kingdom of God, since mountains often symbolize kingdoms. Burnt offerings and sacrifices is replaced by Christ's sacrifice. Makes sense, then, that the Sabbath would symbolize something like resting from our works to try to achieve righteousness.

 

[Leaf473]

The instruction of the Sabbath commandment of ‘keeping it holy’ (Exodus 20:8) is through the ordinances (Exodus 31:14, Numbers 28:9-10). If you remove those ordinances that keep the Sabbath holy, you are changing the Sabbath commandment already. I believe no one says we break the Sabbath commandment. We observed it with the latest instructions given by the scripture. If you keep saying we break the Sabbath commandment when the scripture doesn’t, you bear false testimony against us.

The Pharisees pore over the scriptures (John 5:39), but they cannot connect the words of God, unlike Jesus and Paul, using David over the bread (Matthew 12:4), circumcision, Melchizedek, etc. Aren’t some also poring over the scriptures yet cannot connect them?

True, if all the ordinances are removed, seventh day assembly wouldn't be required as part of keeping the Sabbath holy.

Leviticus 23
Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation; you shall do no kind of work. It is a Sabbath to the Lord in all your dwellings.

 

[guevaraj]

Colossians 2:16 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:" Colossians 2:17 "Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ." Just because you and many others don't take these scriptures to heart doesn't mean the rest of us don't.

Sister, your point of view, like that of many others, is a misrepresentation of Paul's message. Read on and you will see that Paul is talking about "human teachings" that "provide no help in conquering a person's evil desires" and not Jesus' Eleven Commandments that do provide "help in conquering a person's evil desires". Jesus used Paul in the book of Hebrews to correct the ancient human tradition that the Sabbath travels with the week when God showed in the desert since Joshua that you enter the Sabbath around the world in the time zone of creation in Eden, a mistake humans have not listened to correct for more than 3,000 years.

You have died with Christ, and he has set you free from the spiritual powers of this world. So why do you keep on following the rules of the world, such as, “Don’t handle! Don’t taste! Don’t touch!”? Such rules are mere human teachings about things that deteriorate as we use them. These rules may seem wise because they require strong devotion, pious self-denial, and severe bodily discipline. But they provide no help in conquering a person’s evil desires. (Colossians 2:20-23 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Icyspark]

More scriptures about following Paul's example, keeping in mind that chapters and verses are probably a human addition.

1 Corinthians 10
Whether therefore you eat, or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. Give no occasion for stumbling, whether to Jews, or to Greeks, or to the assembly of God; even as I also please all men in all things, not seeking my own profit, but the profit of the many, that they may be saved. Be imitators of me, even as I also am of Christ.

Hi Leaf473,

This is great and thank you for endeavoring to find something biblical which addresses the substance of my previous question.

God bless!

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

 

[Leaf473]

Sister, your point of view, like that of many others, is a misrepresentation of Paul's message. Read on and you will see that Paul is talking about "human teachings" that "provide no help in conquering a person's evil desires" and not Jesus' Eleven Commandments that do provide "help in conquering a person's evil desires". Jesus used Paul in the book of Hebrews to correct the ancient human tradition that the Sabbath travels with the week when God showed in the desert since Joshua that you enter the Sabbath around the world in the time zone of creation in Eden, a mistake humans have not listened to correct for more than 3,000 years.

You have died with Christ, and he has set you free from the spiritual powers of this world. So why do you keep on following the rules of the world, such as, “Don’t handle! Don’t taste! Don’t touch!”? Such rules are mere human teachings about things that deteriorate as we use them. These rules may seem wise because they require strong devotion, pious self-denial, and severe bodily discipline. But they provide no help in conquering a person’s evil desires. (Colossians 2:20-23 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Brother, may God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ give you grace and peace.
Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 1 - New Living Translation

I am glad to see you here on this thread today.

The phrase "Happy Sabbath" does not occur in the New Living Translation.
BibleGateway - Keyword Search: Happy Sabbath

There's nothing wrong with saying it, but it is a human tradition. If you wish to avoid human teachings which are similar to human traditions, why not use a blessing straight out of the scriptures, such as the one from 1 Corinthians above?

United in blessing each other!

 

[Leaf473]

Hi Leaf473,

This is great and thank you for endeavoring to find something biblical which addresses the substance of my previous question.

God bless!

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

Glad you liked it

Another passage that I believe explains why we see Paul in synagogues so often:

Romans 1
For I am not ashamed of the Good News of Christ, because it is the power of God for salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first, and also for the Greek.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I have a scenario for you. Say some people got together on the 1st day of the week in a certain location and the word was preached to them on that day, would they and the person preaching to them be breaking the Sabbath in your eyes?

It depends. Is this in lieu of Sabbath-keeping or a seminar that is on another day. My church has seminars on all days of the week, but we still keep the Sabbath according to the commandment.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

True, if all the ordinances are removed, seventh day assembly wouldn't be required as part of keeping the Sabbath holy.

Leviticus 23
Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation; you shall do no kind of work. It is a Sabbath to the Lord in all your dwellings.

Please point to the scripture where the Sabbath convocation was nailed to the cross.

 

[Leaf473]

Please point to the scripture where the Sabbath convocation was nailed to the cross.

Hi SB,

Based on your thread here
Ordinances
I assumed you would count Colossians 2 as the scripture you're asking for.

"You were dead through your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh. He made you alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, wiping out the handwriting in ordinances which was against us; and he has taken it out of the way, nailing it to the cross."

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Hi SB,

Based on your thread here
Ordinances
I assumed you would count Colossians 2 as the scripture you're asking for.

Colossians 2
You were dead through your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh. He made you alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, wiping out the handwriting in ordinances which was against us; and he has taken it out of the way, nailing it to the cross.

No, not what the scripture says. This is referring to the sacraficial ordiances for the forgivness of sins becuase Jesus became our Sacrifical Lamb, for the forgivness of sin and sanctification when we repent from our sins (breaking God’s law) and turn from sin and walk in obedience to Him.

 

[Leaf473]

No, not what the scripture says. This is referring to the sacraficial ordiances for the forgivness of sins becuase Jesus became our Sacrifical Lamb, for the forgivness of sin and sanctification when we repent from our sins (breaking God’s law) and turn from sin and walk in obedience to Him.

Do you believe, then, that Leviticus 23 contains a list of ordinances, but since they are not sacrificial ordinances, they remain in place?

Peace be with you!

 

[Leaf473]

No, not what the scripture says. This is referring to the sacraficial ordiances for the forgivness of sins becuase Jesus became our Sacrifical Lamb, for the forgivness of sin and sanctification when we repent from our sins (breaking God’s law) and turn from sin and walk in obedience to Him.

Do you believe, then, that Leviticus 23 contains a list of ordinances, but since they are not sacrificial ordinances, they remain in place?

Peace be with you!

Looking more carefully at that chapter, I see that there are some sacrificial laws in there. So, do you believe that everything in the chapter that is not a sacrificial law was not nailed to the cross?

Leviticus 23
7 In the first day you shall have a holy convocation.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Looking more carefully at that chapter, I see that there are some sacrificial laws in there. So, do you believe that everything in the chapter that is not a sacrificial law was not nailed to the cross?

Leviticus 23
7 In the first day you shall have a holy convocation.

That’s referring to the annual ceremonial sabbaths, not the weekly Sabbath that is a commandment of God.

 

[Leaf473]

That’s referring to the annual ceremonial sabbaths, not the weekly Sabbath that is a commandment of God.

That's true. And, following this train of thought, the holy convocation is not part of the sacrificial system, so it wouldn't be an ordinance that was nailed to the cross.

Turns out the 7th Day of the feast of unleavened bread is also a holy convocation:
"In the seventh day is a holy convocation."
Leviticus 23

 

[SabbathBlessings]

That's true. And, following this train of thought, the holy convocation is not part of the sacrificial system, so it wouldn't be an ordinance that was nailed to the cross.

Turns out the 7th Day of the feast of unleavened bread is also a holy convocation:
In the seventh day is a holy convocation.
Leviticus 23

Yeah if one doesn’t understand the difference of the annual ceremonial sabbath(s) from the weekly seventh day Sabbath commandment that was personally written by God and part of His enteral Ten Commanemnts, they might run into a lot of confusing texts.

 

[Leaf473]

Yeah if one doesn’t understand the difference of the annual ceremonial sabbath(s) from the weekly seventh day Sabbath commandment that was personally written by God and part of His enteral Ten Commanemnts, they might run into a lot of confusing texts.

Yes, I can see the difference. But the issue is the holy convocations.

Leviticus 23
You shall make proclamation on the same day that there shall be a holy convocation to you. You shall do no regular work. This is a statute forever in all your dwellings throughout your generations.

Peace be with you!

 

[Cornelius8L]

Here let me help, this is the Sabbath commandment.

Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

According to God it is a commandment and part of the Ten Commandments . Exodus 34:28 Exodus 20 written by the finger of God. Exodus 31:18 and started from Creation before sin and any sacrificial ordinances for the forgiveness of sin because there was no sin in Eden when the Sabbath was instituted by God, thus no sacrifices for the forgiveness of sin. Genesis 2:1-3.

Scripture shows Jesus and the apostles kept the Sabbath without any animal sacrifices and was inline with the commandment, so obviously your premise that the weekly Sabbath is an ordinances and not a commandment the way God clearly stated, is a faulty one. Luke 4:16-30, Acts 18:4, Acts 13:44, Acts 13:42, Acts 17:4. There is no animal sacrifices in the weekly Sabbath commandment Exodus 20:8-11 you are confusing the daily sacrifices with the Sabbath commandment and yes the Sabbath continues as shown clearly without the animal sacrifices because Jesus became our Sacrificial Lamb for the forgiveness of sins and sanctification when we repent and turn from sin and walk in His Spirit which is obedient to God commandments. The commandments just points out sin so we know what not to break Romans 7:7 and if we break one of these commandments that God placed in a unit of Ten, we break them all. James 2:10-12.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for more input. Here is the actual quote.

Numbers 28:9-10
On the Sabbath day, present two unblemished year-old male lambs, accompanied by a grain offering of two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour mixed with oil, as well as a drink offering. This is the burnt offering for every Sabbath, in addition to the regular burnt offering and its drink offering.​

Do you think Numbers 28:9-10 confuse me between the daily sacrifices with the Sabbath sacrifices?

According to the Sabbath commandment that Exodus 31:17 and Ezekiel 20:20 state a sign between Him and the Israelites, and when Genesis never instructs anyone to keep it holy even after Adam sinned, Jesus - the descendant of David under the tribe of Judah, does not need to perform the work of the earthly priest of the tribe of Levi in Numbers 28:9-10. Sabbath weekly sacrifices were earthly priests’ duty. We know they still keep that because Mary kept the law of offering sacrifices after giving birth to Jesus in Luke 2:24. Did they keep the law of offering sacrifices? Yes, they did.

Let’s not forget anyone who bears false testimony is also breaking the commandments.

Hope this helps.

 

[Cornelius8L]

Sister, your point of view, like that of many others, is a misrepresentation of Paul's message. Read on and you will see that Paul is talking about "human teachings" that "provide no help in conquering a person's evil desires" and not Jesus' Eleven Commandments that do provide "help in conquering a person's evil desires". Jesus used Paul in the book of Hebrews to correct the ancient human tradition that the Sabbath travels with the week when God showed in the desert since Joshua that you enter the Sabbath around the world in the time zone of creation in Eden, a mistake humans have not listened to correct for more than 3,000 years.

You have died with Christ, and he has set you free from the spiritual powers of this world. So why do you keep on following the rules of the world, such as, “Don’t handle! Don’t taste! Don’t touch!”? Such rules are mere human teachings about things that deteriorate as we use them. These rules may seem wise because they require strong devotion, pious self-denial, and severe bodily discipline. But they provide no help in conquering a person’s evil desires. (Colossians 2:20-23 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Hi Guevaraj,

You can’t be saying the sabbath is human teachings when v17 points to the body of Christ.

Also, your eleven commandments do not help in conquering a person’s evil desires, but the 2 commandments Jesus raised. Do you realize all your eleven commandments can be kept without love?

1 Corinthians 13:3
If I give all I possess to the poor and exult in the surrender of my body, but have not love, I gain nothing.​

 

[Bob S]

Please point to the scripture where the Sabbath convocation was nailed to the cross.

Please point to the scripture where God has required gentile nations to keep the weekly Sabbath or any other day of the week.