Daily Christian Universalist Verses

[Der Alte]

Revelation 5:13: "And I [John] heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all that is in them, saying, `To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might forever and ever!"'
This is every person on the Earth worshipping God! They are worshipping Him because He is good. He has saved everyone. Even though everyone in the world is a sinner, He loves us so much that He has chosen to save us because He is good! Nobody can stop God’s plan, God’s promise, for all our salvation.

I have read the end of the book, apparently you have not.

Revelation 6:8
(8) And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
Revelation 16:2-3
(2) And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
(3) And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
Revelation 16:9-10
(9) And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
(10) And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
Revelation 16:11
(11) And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.
Revelation 16:21
(21) And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.
Revelation 20:15
(15) And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Revelation 21:7-8
(7) He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
(8) But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Revelation 22:11-12
(11) He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
(12) And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Revelation 22:14-15
(14) Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
(15) For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.​

Note vs. 11 ten more vss. then the end, no more salvation only He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still.

 

[The Liturgist]

When it comes to knowledge of the Greek text, @Der Alte I have found to be the most well-versed member of the forum, if you will forgive the pun.

Seriously though, he is correct. To quote Metropolitan Kallistos Ware of blessed memory (one of too many great churchmen to recently die, and great Christians in general, for example, Metropolitan Hilarion Kapral of ROCOR, the emeritus organist at York Minster Sir Francis Jackson, and the pious Queen Elizabeth II), it is legitimate to hope that all may be saved, but wrong to insist that all must be saved.

 

[public hermit]

When it comes to knowledge of the Greek text, @Der Alte I have found to be the most well-versed member of the forum, if you will forgive the pun.

Seriously though, he is correct. To quote Metropolitan Kallistos Ware of blessed memory (one of too many great churchmen to recently die, and great Christians in general, for example, Metropolitan Hilarion Kapral of ROCOR, the emeritus organist at York Minster Sir Francis Jackson, and the pious Queen Elizabeth II), it is legitimate to hope that all may be saved, but wrong to insist that all must be saved.

Is it wrong due to epistemic limitations or is it morally wrong?

 

[Der Alte]

When it comes to knowledge of the Greek text, @Der Alte I have found to be the most well-versed member of the forum, if you will forgive the pun.
Seriously though, he is correct. To quote Metropolitan Kallistos Ware of blessed memory (one of too many great churchmen to recently die, and great Christians in general, for example, Metropolitan Hilarion Kapral of ROCOR, the emeritus organist at York Minster Sir Francis Jackson, and the pious Queen Elizabeth II), it is legitimate to hope that all may be saved, but wrong to insist that all must be saved.

ευχ́αριςτο that is thank you in Greek. It is not so much that I am so well versed but I have the grammars and lexicons in my "library."

 

[The Liturgist]

ευχ́αριςτο that is thank you in Greek. It is not so much that I am so well versed but I have the grammars and lexicons in my "library."

Would you be able to translate certain Patristic texts and liturgical texts not yet translated into English? My liturgical group is interested in finding someone who might be able to translate Codex Barberini 336 for us, which includes some important liturgical material no longer commonly used.

 

[Deafsilence]

OBTW I started learning to speak Greek, in Germany the year Elvis and I were stationed there. And I formally studied Greek at the graduate level 2 decades after that.

Quoting Mal 3:3 out-of-context.

Mal 3:1 “Behold, I send my messenger, and he will prepare the way before me. And the Lord whom you seek will suddenly come to his temple; and the messenger of the covenant in whom you delight, behold, he is coming, says the LORD of hosts.
Mal 3:2 But who can endure the day of his coming, and who can stand when he appears? For he is like a refiner's fire and like fullers' soap.
Mal 3:3 He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and he will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, and they will bring offerings in righteousness to the LORD.
Mal 3:4 Then the offering of Judah and Jerusalem will be pleasing to the LORD as in the days of old and as in former years. ​

Note this passage was specifically for "the sons of Levi" vs. 3, and "Judah and Jerusalem" vs. 4.
You said "where the verses mentioned are to be cast into hell that is the word for Gehenna which was a place where trash was taken to be burned."
Here you are mentioning an internet rumor as if it was fact. There was a burning trash dump outside Jerusalem but it was NOT Gehenna, it was the next valley over the Kidron valley.
I would suggest you do some real research and learn some facts.

The traditional explanation that a burning rubbish heap in the Valley of Hinnom south of Jerusalem gave rise to the idea of a fiery Gehenna of judgment is attributed to Rabbi David Kimhi's commentary on Psalm 27:13 (ca. A.D. 1200). He maintained that in this loathsome valley fires were kept burning perpetually to consume the filth and cadavers thrown into it. However, Strack and Billerbeck state that there is neither archaeological nor literary evidence in support of this claim, in either the earlier intertestamental or the later rabbinic sources (Hermann L. Strack and Paul Billerbeck, Kommentar zum Neuen Testament aus Talmud and Midrasch, 5 vols. [Munich: Beck, 1922-56], 4:2:1030). Also a more recent author holds a similar view (Lloyd R. Bailey, "Gehenna: The Topography of Hell," Biblical Archeologist 49 [1986]: 189.
Source, Bibliotheca Sacra / July–September 1992
http://faculty.gordon.edu/hu/bi/ted...Articles/BSac-NT/Scharen-GenenaSyn-Pt1-BS.htm​

…..Note: There is no “archaeological nor literary evidence in support of this claim, [that Gehenna was ever used as a garbage dump] in either the earlier intertestamental or the later rabbinic sources” If Gehenna was ever used as a garbage dump there should be broken pottery, tools, utensils, bones, etc. but there is no, zero, none such evidence.

“Gehenna is presented as diametrically opposed to ‘life’: it is better to enter life than to go to Gehenna. . .It is common practice, both in scholarly and less technical works, to associate the description of Gehenna with the supposedly contemporary garbage dump in the valley of Hinnom. This association often leads scholars to emphasize the destructive aspects of the judgment here depicted: fire burns until the object is completely consumed. Two particular problems may be noted in connection with this approach. First, there is no convincing evidence in the primary sources for the existence of a fiery rubbish dump in this location … Secondly, the significant background to this passage more probably lies in Jesus’ allusion to Isaiah 66:24.”
(“The Duration of Divine Judgment in the New Testament” in The Reader Must Understand edited by K. Brower and M. W. Ellion, p. 223, emphasis mine)
G. R. Beasley-Murray in Jesus and the Kingdom of God:
“Ge-Hinnom (Aramaic Ge-hinnam, hence the Greek Geenna), ‘The Valley of Hinnom,’ lay south of Jerusalem, immediately outside its walls. The notion, still referred to by some commentators, that the city’s rubbish was burned in this valley, has no further basis than a statement by the Jewish scholar Kimchi (sic) made about A.D. 1200; it is not attested in any ancient source.” (p. 376n.92)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/20113-the-burning-garbage-dump-of-gehenna-is-a-myth/

Continued next post.​

If you learned Koine Greek then you should have known that the verse you quoted was Present Tense. That means it is a deceptive practice to put forward a verse and pass it off as if few would EVER find the narrow way when the Lord spoke it in the Present Tense. So that means there were few finding the narrow way AT THAT TIME when it was spoken. But to present it as if to say that Few would ever find the way was NOT what Christ said.

Those called now in this dispensation under Christ are the New Testament Sons of Levi.

Per Joseph Bensons Commentary:

Hence the word “is used for a place of punishment by fire, and by our Saviour in the gospel for hell-fire, as the Jews themselves had applied it.” As the place had been thus polluted by idolatry, Josiah, to render it as despicable and abominable as possible, ordered the filth of the city and dead carcasses to be thrown there, and made it a common burying-place. There also fires were kept continually burning, as the Jews say, to consume dead bodies, bones, and such sordid things.

 

[Deafsilence]

@Deafsilence
Do your Bibles have this passage?

Jeremiah 13:11
(11) For as the loincloth clings to the waist of a man, so I made the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah cling to me, declares the LORD, that they might be for me a people, a name, a praise, and a glory, but they would not listen.
Jeremiah 13:13-14
(13) Then you shall say to them, ‘Thus says the LORD: Behold, I will fill with drunkenness all the inhabitants of this land: the kings who sit on David's throne, the priests, the prophets, and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
(14) And I will dash them one against another, fathers and sons together, declares the LORD. I will not pity or spare or have compassion, that I should not destroy them.’”​

You don't understand that EVERY man is being destroyed UTTERLY if they want to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Do you know why Two Swords was enough?

Luk_22:38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

It is enough because by the testimony of TWO witnesses can one be put to death. Jesus was sending out His Apostles and instructing them to take two swords and this is figuratively speaking of the Word of God. Meaning two of those with the Word of God will be sent out and SPIRTUALLY SLAY the wicked. So you see everyone is being destroyed UTTERLY. The ole man in all must cease to exist.

 

[Deafsilence]

ευχ́αριςτο that is thank you in Greek. It is not so much that I am so well versed but I have the grammars and lexicons in my "library."

I'm betting that all your lexicons showed that the verb in Matthew 7:14 is in the PRESENT Tense. But will you come here and tell us you were wrong and presented the verse wrong?

 

[Deafsilence]

For all you that believe in Eternal Torment, explain how Jesus brought FIRE to Earth when He came:

Luk 12:49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

I'm of the belief that many of you don't understand the meaning of this verse.

 

[Der Alte]

If you learned Koine Greek then you should have known that the verse you quoted was Present Tense. That means it is a deceptive practice to put forward a verse and pass it off as if few would EVER find the narrow way when the Lord spoke it in the Present Tense. So that means there were few finding the narrow way AT THAT TIME when it was spoken. But to present it as if to say that Few would ever find the way was NOT what Christ said.
Those called now in this dispensation under Christ are the New Testament Sons of Levi.

I have no idea what you are talking about. I did NOT quote any verse which spoke of "a narrow way."

Per Joseph Bensons Commentary:
Hence the word “is used for a place of punishment by fire, and by our Saviour in the gospel for hell-fire, as the Jews themselves had applied it.” As the place had been thus polluted by idolatry, Josiah, to render it as despicable and abominable as possible, ordered the filth of the city and dead carcasses to be thrown there, and made it a common burying-place. There also fires were kept continually burning, as the Jews say, to consume dead bodies, bones, and such sordid things.

Benson is flat out wrong.

The traditional explanation that a burning rubbish heap in the Valley of Hinnom south of Jerusalem gave rise to the idea of a fiery Gehenna of judgment is attributed to Rabbi David Kimhi's commentary on Psalm 27:13 (ca. A.D. 1200). He maintained that in this loathsome valley fires were kept burning perpetually to consume the filth and cadavers thrown into it. However, Strack and Billerbeck state that there is neither archaeological nor literary evidence in support of this claim, in either the earlier intertestamental or the later rabbinic sources (Hermann L. Strack and Paul Billerbeck, Kommentar zum Neuen Testament aus Talmud and Midrasch, 5 vols. [Munich: Beck, 1922-56], 4:2:1030). Also a more recent author holds a similar view (Lloyd R. Bailey, "Gehenna: The Topography of Hell," Biblical Archeologist 49 [1986]: 189.
Source, Bibliotheca Sacra / July–September 1992
http://faculty.gordon.edu/hu/bi/ted...Articles/BSac-NT/Scharen-GenenaSyn-Pt1-BS.htm​

…..Note: There is no “archaeological nor literary evidence in support of this claim, [that Gehenna was ever used as a garbage dump] in either the earlier intertestamental or the later rabbinic sources” If Gehenna was ever used as a garbage dump there should be broken pottery, tools, utensils, bones, etc. but there is no, zero, none such evidence.

“Gehenna is presented as diametrically opposed to ‘life’: it is better to enter life than to go to Gehenna. . .It is common practice, both in scholarly and less technical works, to associate the description of Gehenna with the supposedly contemporary garbage dump in the valley of Hinnom. This association often leads scholars to emphasize the destructive aspects of the judgment here depicted: fire burns until the object is completely consumed. Two particular problems may be noted in connection with this approach. First, there is no convincing evidence in the primary sources for the existence of a fiery rubbish dump in this location … Secondly, the significant background to this passage more probably lies in Jesus’ allusion to Isaiah 66:24.”
(“The Duration of Divine Judgment in the New Testament” in The Reader Must Understand edited by K. Brower and M. W. Ellion, p. 223, emphasis mine)
G. R. Beasley-Murray in Jesus and the Kingdom of God:
“Ge-Hinnom (Aramaic Ge-hinnam, hence the Greek Geenna), ‘The Valley of Hinnom,’ lay south of Jerusalem, immediately outside its walls. The notion, still referred to by some commentators, that the city’s rubbish was burned in this valley, has no further basis than a statement by the Jewish scholar Kimchi (sic) made about A.D. 1200; it is not attested in any ancient source.” (p. 376n.92)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/20113-the-burning-garbage-dump-of-gehenna-is-a-myth/ ​

 

[Deafsilence]

I have no idea what you are talking about. I did NOT quote any verse which spoke of "a narrow way."


Benson is flat out wrong.

The traditional explanation that a burning rubbish heap in the Valley of Hinnom south of Jerusalem gave rise to the idea of a fiery Gehenna of judgment is attributed to Rabbi David Kimhi's commentary on Psalm 27:13 (ca. A.D. 1200). He maintained that in this loathsome valley fires were kept burning perpetually to consume the filth and cadavers thrown into it. However, Strack and Billerbeck state that there is neither archaeological nor literary evidence in support of this claim, in either the earlier intertestamental or the later rabbinic sources (Hermann L. Strack and Paul Billerbeck, Kommentar zum Neuen Testament aus Talmud and Midrasch, 5 vols. [Munich: Beck, 1922-56], 4:2:1030). Also a more recent author holds a similar view (Lloyd R. Bailey, "Gehenna: The Topography of Hell," Biblical Archeologist 49 [1986]: 189.
Source, Bibliotheca Sacra / July–September 1992
http://faculty.gordon.edu/hu/bi/ted...Articles/BSac-NT/Scharen-GenenaSyn-Pt1-BS.htm​

…..Note: There is no “archaeological nor literary evidence in support of this claim, [that Gehenna was ever used as a garbage dump] in either the earlier intertestamental or the later rabbinic sources” If Gehenna was ever used as a garbage dump there should be broken pottery, tools, utensils, bones, etc. but there is no, zero, none such evidence.

“Gehenna is presented as diametrically opposed to ‘life’: it is better to enter life than to go to Gehenna. . .It is common practice, both in scholarly and less technical works, to associate the description of Gehenna with the supposedly contemporary garbage dump in the valley of Hinnom. This association often leads scholars to emphasize the destructive aspects of the judgment here depicted: fire burns until the object is completely consumed. Two particular problems may be noted in connection with this approach. First, there is no convincing evidence in the primary sources for the existence of a fiery rubbish dump in this location … Secondly, the significant background to this passage more probably lies in Jesus’ allusion to Isaiah 66:24.”
(“The Duration of Divine Judgment in the New Testament” in The Reader Must Understand edited by K. Brower and M. W. Ellion, p. 223, emphasis mine)
G. R. Beasley-Murray in Jesus and the Kingdom of God:
“Ge-Hinnom (Aramaic Ge-hinnam, hence the Greek Geenna), ‘The Valley of Hinnom,’ lay south of Jerusalem, immediately outside its walls. The notion, still referred to by some commentators, that the city’s rubbish was burned in this valley, has no further basis than a statement by the Jewish scholar Kimchi (sic) made about A.D. 1200; it is not attested in any ancient source.” (p. 376n.92)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/20113-the-burning-garbage-dump-of-gehenna-is-a-myth/ ​

Now Benson mentions Josiah as the originator of the idea of the understanding that Gehenna was used to burn these things so it sounds like there is some evidence after all. But you say he must be wrong - is that because it goes against what your commentary says?

Have to be careful what your "scholars" are telling you. There are some many failed scholars still trying to convince us that the Exodus was in the 13th Century BC.

 

[Der Alte]

I'm betting that all your lexicons showed that the verb in Matthew 7:14 is in the PRESENT Tense. But will you come here and tell us you were wrong and presented the verse wrong?

That is correct. The verb "find" is present active infinitive. Is it your argument that after Jesus said this many started finding the strait gate and the narrow way?

 

[GTW27]

For all you that believe in Eternal Torment, explain how Jesus brought FIRE to Earth when He came:

Luk 12:49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

I'm of the belief that many of you don't understand the meaning of this verse.

"I came to cast fire upon the earth; and would that it were already kindled! I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how I am constrained until it is accomplished!"
"I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry; He will baptize you with The Holy Spirit and with fire. His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will clear His threshing floor and gather His wheat into the granary, but the chaff He will burn with unquenchable fire."

 

[Deafsilence]

That is correct. The verb "find" is present active infinitive. Is it your argument that after Jesus said this many started finding the strait gate and the narrow way?

I would surely never argue to use the verse to say that many wouldn't eventually find the way because that would be taking His Words out of Context.

 

[Der Alte]

Now Benson mentions Josiah as the originator of the idea of the understanding that Gehenna was used to burn these things so it sounds like there is some evidence after all. But you say he must be wrong - is that because it goes against what your commentary says?
Have to be careful what your "scholars" are telling you. There are some many failed scholars still trying to convince us that the Exodus was in the 13th Century BC.

Good. Now show me where Josiah said that? It ain't in the Bible. You are the one that is not careful, choosing questionable sources because they support your assumptions/presuppositions.
Did you even bother to read the sources I posted, with links, which included archaeological evidence?
There was a trash dump outside Jerusalem but it was not Gehenna it was the next valley over the Kidron valley, Quote and link already posted above, but you ignored it.

[1]1925 Jewish Encyclopedia, Gehenna
The place where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch … in the "valley of the sons of Hinnom," to the south of Jerusalem (Josh. xv. 8, passim; II Kings xxiii. 10; Jer. ii. 23; vii. 31-32; xix. 6, 13-14). … the valley was deemed to be accursed, and "Gehenna" therefore soon became a figurative equivalent for "hell." Hell, like paradise, was created by God (Sotah 22a);[“Soon” in this paragraph would be about 700 BC +/-, DA]​

Note: This is according to the ancient Jews, long before the Christian era, NOT any assumed/alleged bias of “modern” Christian translators. DA
…..This refutes the false narrative that the eleven [11] times Jesus mentioned “Gehenna” He was referring to the valley of GeHinnom/Gehenna where trash and bodies were supposedly always burning. It never happened.

”(I)n general …sinners go to hell immediately after their death. The famous teacher Johanan b. Zakkai [30 BC-90 AD] wept before his death because he did not know whether he would go to paradise or to hell (Ber. 28b). The pious go to paradise, and sinners to hell(B.M. 83b).
“But as regards the heretics, etc., and Jeroboam, Nebat's son, hell shall pass away, but they shall not pass away" (R. H. 17a; comp. Shab [Talmud]. 33b). All that descend into Gehenna shall come up again, with the exception of three classes of men: those who have committed adultery, or shamed their neighbors, or vilified them (B. M. 58b).[/i]
“… heretics and the Roman oppressors go to Gehenna, and the same fate awaits the Persians, the oppressors of the Babylonian Jews (Ber. 8b).[Talmud] “When Nebuchadnezzar descended into hell, [שאול/Sheol] all its inhabitants were afraid that he was coming to rule over them (Shab. 149a; [Talmud] comp. Isa. xiv. 9-10). The Book of Enoch [x. 6, xci. 9, etal] also says that it is chiefly the heathen who are to be cast into the fiery pool on the Day of Judgment.
"The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity" (Judith xvi. 17). The sinners in Gehenna will be filled with pain when God puts back the souls into the dead bodies on the Day of Judgment, according toIsa. xxxiii. 11 (Sanh. 108b)[Talmud].
Link: Jewish Encyclopedia Online
Note, scripture references are highlighted in blue.
= = = = = = = = = =
[2]1972 Encyclopedia Judaica:
Gehinnom (Heb. גֵּי בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּי בְנֵי הִנֹּם, גֵּיא בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּיא הִנֹּם; Gr. Γέεννα; "Valley of Ben-Hinnom, Valley of [the Son (s) of] Hinnom," Gehenna), a valley south of Jerusalem on one of the borders between the territories of Judah and Benjamin, between the Valley of *Rephaim and *En-rogel (Josh. 15:8; 18:16). It is identified with Wadi er-Rababi.
…..During the time of the Monarchy, Gehinnom, at a place called Topheth, was the site of a cult which involved the burning of children (II Kings 23:10; Jer. 7:31; 32:35 et al.; ). Jeremiah repeatedly condemned this cult and predicted that on its account Topheth and the Valley of the Son of Hinnom would be called the Valley of the "Slaughter" (Jer. 19:5–6).
In Judaism the name Gehinnom is generally used as an appellation of the place of torment reserved for the wicked after death. The New Testament used the Greek form Gehenna in the same sense.
Link:
Gehinnom
http://www.jevzajcg.me/enciklopedia/Encyclopaedia Judaica, v. 07 (Fey-Gor).pdf



​

 

[Deafsilence]

"I came to cast fire upon the earth; and would that it were already kindled! I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how I am constrained until it is accomplished!"
"I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry; He will baptize you with The Holy Spirit and with fire. His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will clear His threshing floor and gather His wheat into the granary, but the chaff He will burn with unquenchable fire."

The Gospel of Matthew (Hebrew - George Howard version) says the 'Fire of the Holy Spirit'.

Obviously, Baptism isn't about water, it is about the Spirit, and water is only a type or illustration so a Lake of Fire is obviously a Lake of the Holy Spirit. What did the Apostles wear on the day of Pentecost - Tongues of Fire.

God says He makes His ministers flames of fire.

But still many believe in Eternal Torment. Even the disciples believed that Christ was to bring down fire from heaven:

Luk 9:54 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?
Luk 9:55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.

People today still do not know what spirit they are of.

 

[Der Alte]

I would surely never argue to use the verse to say that many wouldn't eventually find the way because that would be taking His Words out of Context.

I think you are arguing with the wrong person, at the wrong time, about the wrong thing. In the post where I quoted Matt 7:14 I also quoted Matt 7:21-23, only 7 vss. later.

Matthew 7:21-23
(21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
(22) Many [not a few] will say to me in that day, [day of judgement] Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
(23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.​

So, it is evident with Matt 7:14, I took nothing out-of-context.

 

[Der Alte]

The Gospel of Matthew (Hebrew - George Howard version) says the 'Fire of the Holy Spirit'.
Obviously, Baptism isn't about water, it is about the Spirit, and water is only a type or illustration so a Lake of Fire is obviously a Lake of the Holy Spirit. What did the Apostles wear on the day of Pentecost - Tongues of Fire.
God says He makes His ministers flames of fire.
But still many believe in Eternal Torment. Even the disciples believed that Christ was to bring down fire from heaven:
Luk 9:54 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?
Luk 9:55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
People today still do not know what spirit they are of.

The correct Biblical phrase is "Eternal Punishment" NOT "torment."

EOB Matthew:25:46 When he will answer them, saying: ‘Amen, I tell you: as much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 These [ones on the left] will go away into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] punishment, [κόλασις/kolasis] but the righteous into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] life.”[EOB p. 96]​

…..Greek has been the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church since its inception, 2000 years ago +/-. Note, the native Greek speaking Eastern Orthodox Greek scholars, translators of the EOB, translated “aionios,” in Matt 25:46, as “eternal,” NOT “age.”
…..Who is better qualified than the team of native Greek speaking scholars, translators of the Eastern Greek Orthodox Bible [EOB], quoted above and below, to know the correct translation of the Greek in the N.T.?
Link to EOB online:
The New Testament ( The Eastern-Greek Orthodox Bible) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
…..The Greek word “kolasis” occurs only twice in the N.T., 1st occurrence Matt 25:46, above, and 2nd occurrence 1 John 4:18., below.

EOB 1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear, because fear is connected with punishment.[κόλασις/kolasis] But the one who fears is not yet perfect in love.[EOB p. 518]​

In the EOB the Greek word “kolasis” is translated “punishment” in both Matt 25:46 and 1 John 4:18.
…..Some badly informed folks claim “kolasis” really means “prune” or “correction.”
Sorry, that is impossible, both “prune” and “correction” are verbs. “Kolasis” is a noun. A noun cannot be translated as a verb.
Also, according to the EOB Greek scholars “kolasis” means “punishment.”
Note: in 1 John 4:18 there is no correction, the one with “kolasis” is not made perfect. Thus “kolasis” does not/cannot mean “correction.”
…..It is acknowledged that modern Greek differs from koine Greek but I am confident that the native Greek speaking EOB scholars, supported by 2000 years +/- of continuous, uninterrupted Greek scholarship, are competent enough to know the correct translation of obsolete Greek words which may have changed in meaning or are no longer in use and to translate them correctly. Much in the same way English speaking scholars today know the meaning of obsolete English words which occur in the 1611 KJV and can define them correctly.

 

[GTW27]

The Gospel of Matthew (Hebrew - George Howard version) says the 'Fire of the Holy Spirit'.

Obviously, Baptism isn't about water, it is about the Spirit, and water is only a type or illustration so a Lake of Fire is obviously a Lake of the Holy Spirit. What did the Apostles wear on the day of Pentecost - Tongues of Fire.

God says He makes His ministers flames of fire.

But still many believe in Eternal Torment. Even the disciples believed that Christ was to bring down fire from heaven:

Luk 9:54 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?
Luk 9:55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.

People today still do not know what spirit they are of.

Perhaps you missed these words, "but the chaff He will burn with unquenchable fire" These are the words of John the Baptist. The Lord anointed him to prepare His way. John's words will not be removed from The Word of God, nor will they be changed by language or translations. "but the chaff He will burn with unquenchable fire." The Sword of The Spirit has two sides. Be Blessed.

 

[Der Alte]

Perhaps you missed these words, "but the chaff He will burn with unquenchable fire" These are the words of John the Baptist. The Lord anointed him to prepare His way. John's words will not be removed from The Word of God, nor will they be changed by language or translations. "but the chaff He will burn with unquenchable fire." The Sword of The Spirit has two sides. Be Blessed.

Some people don't understand that "chaff" is not the same thing as "tares" in another passage. "Chaff" is a part of the grain, an inedible, hard outer husk. Tares are a totally different plant, a weed that grows up among the grain.