FBI investigation data in Rollingstone article

[stevil]

What then? Do you believe the Q'Anon Shaman was actually about to become the Senate majority leader?

I think you have no clue. Noone has ever suggested or implied that the plebs themselves were looking for positions in office.

 

[Aldebaran]

I think you have no clue. Noone has ever suggested or implied that the plebs themselves were looking for positions in office.

Ok, then describe what a successful overthrow of democracy would have looked like.

 

[stevil]

Ok, then describe what a successful overthrow of democracy would have looked like.

Have you not been aware of the alternate electors scheme?

John Eastman (one of Trump's lawyers) documented the whole scheme out and described in detail how it would work (it is illegal by the way). As far as I can tell, Trump sent the insurrections to either:
1. Put pressure on Pence to carry out the last part of that scheme, to say, ohhh look there are multiple electors votes here, both conflicting in these key states (that Trump lost), since I can't tell which is the real one, I'm going to just ignore those states and go by what is left over, and low and behold, Trump has more elector votes than Biden so I will declare Trump the new president and myself to be the new VP. Wow, congrats to us!
2. Delay the electoral count and then hand this over to the Republican State officials to ignore the vote count and instead, themselves to declare that Trump and Pence won the election. Wow, congrats to us!
3. Kill Pence and have someone else more amenable to the scheme to do item 1. Wow, congrats to us!

And when I say "Trump sent the insurrectionists" I mean that loosely, I think Trump isn't smart enough or capable enough, he is just a figure head. I think there are many people behind the scenes working hard to get this scheme to happen. Potentially Bannon, Stone, Guiliani, Eastman, and others (including Proud boys and Oathkeepers). But no doubt the goal was to keep Trump in office by means other than the presidential election and ensuing count of those votes by the public.

 

[Aldebaran]

Have you not been aware of the alternate electors scheme?

John Eastman (one of Trump's lawyers) documented the whole scheme out and described in detail how it would work (it is illegal by the way). As far as I can tell, Trump sent the insurrections to either:
1. Put pressure on Pence to carry out the last part of that scheme, to say, ohhh look there are multiple electors votes here, both conflicting in these key states (that Trump lost), since I can't tell which is the real one, I'm going to just ignore those states and go by what is left over, and low and behold, Trump has more elector votes than Biden so I will declare Trump the new president and myself to be the new VP. Wow, congrats to us!
2. Delay the electoral count and then hand this over to the Republican State officials to ignore the vote count and instead, themselves to declare that Trump and Pence won the election. Wow, congrats to us!
3. Kill Pence and have someone else more amenable to the scheme to do item 1. Wow, congrats to us!

And when I say "Trump sent the insurrectionists" I mean that loosely, I think Trump isn't smart enough or capable enough, he is just a figure head. I think there are many people behind the scenes working hard to get this scheme to happen. Potentially Bannon, Stone, Guiliani, Eastman, and others (including Proud boys and Oathkeepers). But no doubt the goal was to keep Trump in office by means other than the presidential election and ensuing count of those votes by the public.

Good grief!

 

[stevil]

Good grief!

Yes, exactly. And it's weird that you have never heard of it. It's been all over the media for a very long time.
Except of course far right outlets and Fox News opinion shows. So if you listen exclusively to those, then you might have missed it.

 

[Aldebaran]

Yes, exactly. And it's weird that you have never heard of it. It's been all over the media for a very long time.
Except of course far right outlets and Fox News opinion shows. So if you listen exclusively to those, then you might have missed it.

I've heard it all before. My statement of "good grief" is from the fact that you repeated the most conspiracy-theory parts of it.

 

[stevil]

I've heard it all before. My statement of "good grief" is from the fact that you repeated the most conspiracy-theory parts of it.

Have you read the John Eastman letter?
Have you seen that Oath Keepers in relation to Jan 6 activity have pled guilty to Seditious conspiracy?
Have you seen and heard people who attacked the Capital and harmed police calling out "Hang Pence"?
Have you seen Stone being guarded/protected by Oath keepers?


READ: Trump lawyer's memo on six-step plan for Pence to overturn the election | CNN Politics
John Eastman, a conservative lawyer working with then-President Donald Trump's legal team, outlined in a two-page memo a scheme to try to persuade then-Vice President Mike Pence to subvert the Constitution and throw out the 2020 election results on January 6.

Step 3 in Eastman's plan
3. At the end, he announces that because of the ongoing disputes in the 7 States, there are no electors that can be deemed validly appointed in those States. That means the total number of “electors appointed” – the language of the 12th Amendment -- is 454. This reading of the 12th Amendment has also been advanced by Harvard Law Professor Laurence Tribe (here). A “majority of the electors appointed” would therefore be 228. There are at this point 232 votes for Trump, 222 votes for Biden. Pence then gavels President Trump as re-elected.

Step 4 in Eastman's plan
4. Howls, of course, from the Democrats, who now claim, contrary to Tribe’s prior position, that 270 is required. So Pence says, fine. Pursuant to the 12th Amendment, no candidate has achieved the necessary majority. That sends the matter to the House, where the “the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote . . . .” Republicans currently control 26 of the state delegations, the bare majority needed to win that vote. President Trump is re-elected there as well.

Oath Keeper pleads guilty to seditious conspiracy over Capitol attack
A member of the far-right Oath Keepers militia on Friday became the second participant in the 6 January 2021 Capitol insurrection to plead guilty to seditious conspiracy for his actions in advance of that day.

Brian Ulrich, 44, of Guyton, Georgia, faces five to six years in prison after pleading guilty in federal district court in Washington DC, according to sentencing guidelines. He also pleaded guilty to obstructing an official proceeding, which in this case was the hours-long delay in the certification of Joe Biden’s victory in the presidential election over Donald Trump.


First They Guarded Roger Stone. Then They Joined the Capitol Attack. (Published 2021)
First They Guarded Roger Stone. Then They Joined the Capitol Attack.

 

[Aldebaran]

Have you read the John Eastman letter?
Have you seen that Oath Keepers in relation to Jan 6 activity have pled guilty to Seditious conspiracy?
Have you seen and heard people who attacked the Capital and harmed police calling out "Hang Pence"?
Have you seen Stone being guarded/protected by Oath keepers?


READ: Trump lawyer's memo on six-step plan for Pence to overturn the election | CNN Politics
John Eastman, a conservative lawyer working with then-President Donald Trump's legal team, outlined in a two-page memo a scheme to try to persuade then-Vice President Mike Pence to subvert the Constitution and throw out the 2020 election results on January 6.

Step 3 in Eastman's plan
3. At the end, he announces that because of the ongoing disputes in the 7 States, there are no electors that can be deemed validly appointed in those States. That means the total number of “electors appointed” – the language of the 12th Amendment -- is 454. This reading of the 12th Amendment has also been advanced by Harvard Law Professor Laurence Tribe (here). A “majority of the electors appointed” would therefore be 228. There are at this point 232 votes for Trump, 222 votes for Biden. Pence then gavels President Trump as re-elected.

Step 4 in Eastman's plan
4. Howls, of course, from the Democrats, who now claim, contrary to Tribe’s prior position, that 270 is required. So Pence says, fine. Pursuant to the 12th Amendment, no candidate has achieved the necessary majority. That sends the matter to the House, where the “the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote . . . .” Republicans currently control 26 of the state delegations, the bare majority needed to win that vote. President Trump is re-elected there as well.

Oath Keeper pleads guilty to seditious conspiracy over Capitol attack
A member of the far-right Oath Keepers militia on Friday became the second participant in the 6 January 2021 Capitol insurrection to plead guilty to seditious conspiracy for his actions in advance of that day.

Brian Ulrich, 44, of Guyton, Georgia, faces five to six years in prison after pleading guilty in federal district court in Washington DC, according to sentencing guidelines. He also pleaded guilty to obstructing an official proceeding, which in this case was the hours-long delay in the certification of Joe Biden’s victory in the presidential election over Donald Trump.


First They Guarded Roger Stone. Then They Joined the Capitol Attack. (Published 2021)
First They Guarded Roger Stone. Then They Joined the Capitol Attack.

I've heard chants consisting of all kinds of ideas. "Burn it all down!" and "Defund the Police". What should happen to those who chanted those things?

 

[stevil]

I've heard chants consisting of all kinds of ideas. "Burn it all down!" and "Defund the Police". What should happen to those who chanted those things?

Interesting whatabout-ism.
"Burn it all down!" sounds like a threat to commit a crime.
"Defund the police" sounds like a legal avenue
"Hang Mike Pence" sounds like a ...... (a. threat to commit a crime, b. legal avenue). I'll let you come to your own conclusion.

 

[Bradskii]

I've heard chants consisting of all kinds of ideas. "Burn it all down!" and "Defund the Police". What should happen to those who chanted those things?

May I ask you to comment on the main points of the post? I'd be interested to see if you accept what was written.

 

[dqhall]

I would have preferred Biden to not have shown so much weakness that encouraged Putin to go ahead and invade Ukraine. No such thing happened under Trump.

Biden warned Putin there will be serious consequences if Russia will invade Ukraine. He moved U.S. military units closer to Ukraine, including F-35’s.

As for the Rolling Stone article in the original post about no nuclear documents found at Mar a Lago, it was false. They found nuclear information so sensitive only a few people in government.were allowed to see it. Trump no longer has executive privilege. Biden does.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/09/06/trump-nuclear-documents/

For all the complaining Republicans did about Hillary using an insecure email server, it is only fair Trump gets berated for doing worse by moving classified documents, including nuclear secrets, to his resort hotel.

 

[Say it aint so]

Except the fact that we were discussing who was threatening violence if they didn't get their way, or how that makes them a threat to democracy. I guess that doesn't apply to those who didn't actually carry out their threat since they got what they wanted.

Stop, just stop. One Bernie staffer is not "Bernie followers" nor was it about Trump. If you're going to discuss, you may want to get your facts straight. And if you are juxtaposing that against the political violence egged on by people like Trump himself, I just don't know what to say.

 

[Say it aint so]

I would have preferred Biden to not have shown so much weakness that encouraged Putin to go ahead and invade Ukraine. No such thing happened under Trump.

Yes. God knows Biden should have the shown the same boot licking strength of Trump come Putin. Doing his bidding by trying to weaken NATO to even threatening a US exit. Believing Putin over your own intel. Praising him whenever you could, and trying to undo sanctions against Russian whenever you can. I mean after all, Putin is trying his best to help you win the election. So why not give Trump the room to sabotage the strength of your adversaries.

 

[Aldebaran]

Biden warned Putin there will be serious consequences if Russia will invade Ukraine. He moved U.S. military units closer to Ukraine, including F-35’s.

Empty rhetoric, which Putin recognized. US military is not actually involved and hopefully never will be.

As for the Rolling Stone article in the original post about no nuclear documents found at Mar a Lago, it was false. They found nuclear information so sensitive only a few people in government.were allowed to see it. Trump no longer has executive privilege. Biden does.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/09/06/trump-nuclear-documents/

"according to people familiar with the matter" is another way of saying, "Just trust us!" (meaning that we shouldn't).

For all the complaining Republicans did about Hillary using an insecure email server, it is only fair Trump gets berated for doing worse by moving classified documents, including nuclear secrets, to his resort hotel.

Which he had the right to do.

 

[Aldebaran]

Stop, just stop. One Bernie staffer is not "Bernie followers" nor was it about Trump. If you're going to discuss, you may want to get your facts straight. And if you are juxtaposing that against the political violence egged on by people like Trump himself, I just don't know what to say.

It doesn't have to be about Trump, does it? I addressed those on the Left threatening violence if they didn't get their way. Bernie followers doing that was just one example. I could mention George Floyd protesters who threatened to riot if the cop who arrested him wasn't found guilty--and of course got what they wanted as well. But I was trying to stay on the political side.

 

[Bradskii]

Which he had the right to do.

Whaaaat? He had the right to take US nuclear secrets and keep them at a golf club?

What madness is this?

 

[Aldebaran]

I had no need. I already know that the Capitol is a building.
The insurrection though was not just an attempt to damage or control a building.

The protest at the capitol was simply people wanting their voices to be heard. They didn't burn anything down or kill anyone to accomplish that either.

 

[Bradskii]

But I was trying to stay on the political side.

What I think you could be doing is responding to posts that are relevant. I make no excuse for repeating one made just upstream that you might have missed. I'd like you to respond to this.

Have you read the John Eastman letter?
Have you seen that Oath Keepers in relation to Jan 6 activity have pled guilty to Seditious conspiracy?
Have you seen and heard people who attacked the Capital and harmed police calling out "Hang Pence"?
Have you seen Stone being guarded/protected by Oath keepers?


READ: Trump lawyer's memo on six-step plan for Pence to overturn the election | CNN Politics
John Eastman, a conservative lawyer working with then-President Donald Trump's legal team, outlined in a two-page memo a scheme to try to persuade then-Vice President Mike Pence to subvert the Constitution and throw out the 2020 election results on January 6.

Step 3 in Eastman's plan
3. At the end, he announces that because of the ongoing disputes in the 7 States, there are no electors that can be deemed validly appointed in those States. That means the total number of “electors appointed” – the language of the 12th Amendment -- is 454. This reading of the 12th Amendment has also been advanced by Harvard Law Professor Laurence Tribe (here). A “majority of the electors appointed” would therefore be 228. There are at this point 232 votes for Trump, 222 votes for Biden. Pence then gavels President Trump as re-elected.

Step 4 in Eastman's plan
4. Howls, of course, from the Democrats, who now claim, contrary to Tribe’s prior position, that 270 is required. So Pence says, fine. Pursuant to the 12th Amendment, no candidate has achieved the necessary majority. That sends the matter to the House, where the “the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote . . . .” Republicans currently control 26 of the state delegations, the bare majority needed to win that vote. President Trump is re-elected there as well.

Oath Keeper pleads guilty to seditious conspiracy over Capitol attack
A member of the far-right Oath Keepers militia on Friday became the second participant in the 6 January 2021 Capitol insurrection to plead guilty to seditious conspiracy for his actions in advance of that day.

Brian Ulrich, 44, of Guyton, Georgia, faces five to six years in prison after pleading guilty in federal district court in Washington DC, according to sentencing guidelines. He also pleaded guilty to obstructing an official proceeding, which in this case was the hours-long delay in the certification of Joe Biden’s victory in the presidential election over Donald Trump.


First They Guarded Roger Stone. Then They Joined the Capitol Attack. (Published 2021)
First They Guarded Roger Stone. Then They Joined the Capitol Attack.

 

[Bradskii]

The protest at the capitol was simply people wanting their voices to be heard.

I don't know about you, but down here we call it 'voting'. The winner takes the prize, the loser accepts the decision of the people and we all move on.

 

[stevil]

Which he had the right to do.

It doesn't seem to be the case.

Which is why the Judge signed off on a warrant to raid his property and confiscate these documents.
It will be interesting to see if D Trump gets criminally prosecuted for this. He certainly has compromised national security secrets.