Is there an Atheist preference for the Democratic party going on here?

rjs330

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Let's look at federal.heaothcare programs--Medicare. VA. No insurance companies taking 20% off the top. Cheaper. And better. I love Medicare. My husband gets great care from the VA.
Social Security. No amount of private charity could accomplish what SSA has for the elderly, disabled, surviving children.
Food pantries around us get lots of surplus from the government.
I saw an evangelical church give shoes to schoolchildren, in return for getting their feet washed.
To me, that was for the givers not the receivers. Don't poor children feel different enough without having to listen to a sermon and get your feet washed by some do-gooder?
As St. Francis says, preach the gospel at all times--use words "when necessary." Not to make poor children feel even needier.

And I've seen them give without anything. Does that count or are you just going to go on about one church that did something like that? By the way I agree with you. That seemed like a very poorly considered idea.

What makes you think we think medicare and social security should be scrapped? I don't think I've seen a call for that.

That's a problem I've seen from far too many. For some reason you have gotten into your head that conservatives don't want to give a dime to people or help anyone out. It's like we are some kind of monsteous human that looks at people go, sink or swim, I'm not lifting a finger to help you.
 
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JSRG

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Matt Shea is still a member of good standing in the GOP. He wrote a paper called “The Biblical Basis for War” in which he laid out how non-Christians are to be executed. Washington state lawmaker Matt Shea defends advocacy for ‘Holy Army’ as Spokane sheriff refers his writings to FBI

Until Republicans removes people like him from the party, my vote for Democrats doesn’t have a political basis, it is purely a self-preservation tactic.
He got kicked out of the Republican caucus in his state legislature:
https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2019/dec/19/rep-matt-shea-engaged-in-domestic-terrorism-during/

Party leaders asked him to resign:

“He absolutely should resign,” said Republican Minority Leader J.T. Wilcox, of Yelm. “His role as a House Republican is over.”

I don't see how someone who got kicked out of their party's caucus in the stage congress and asked to resign by their party leader in the congress is someone in "good standing" with the party.

For those wondering, he's not in the state congress anymore; he refused to resign despite being asked to, but didn't try to seek re-election.
 
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Fantine

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What makes you think we think medicare and social security should be scrapped? I don't think I've seen a call for that.
Sen. Rick Scott's plan for America says we should reauthorize every 5 years.
Sen. Ron Johnson says it should be voted on annually as "discretionary."
Lots of people have no income other than Social Security.
And very few seniors could afford medical insurance on the open market. For elderly people with lots of health issues it could easily cost $25K or more.
 
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GreatLakes4Ever

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He got kicked out of the Republican caucus in his state legislature:
https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2019/dec/19/rep-matt-shea-engaged-in-domestic-terrorism-during/

Party leaders asked him to resign:

“He absolutely should resign,” said Republican Minority Leader J.T. Wilcox, of Yelm. “His role as a House Republican is over.”

I don't see how someone who got kicked out of their party's caucus in the stage congress and asked to resign by their party leader in the congress is someone in "good standing" with the party.

For those wondering, he's not in the state congress anymore; he refused to resign despite being asked to, but didn't try to seek re-election.

I was wrong about him still being in good standing. Though it was a report on him participating in an armed takeover of federal land that got the GOP to take action that was released a year later than the plan to have me executed, so still concerning that a member of the Republican Party can talk like that and still be in good standing.
 
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rjs330

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He got kicked out of the Republican caucus in his state legislature:
https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2019/dec/19/rep-matt-shea-engaged-in-domestic-terrorism-during/

Party leaders asked him to resign:

“He absolutely should resign,” said Republican Minority Leader J.T. Wilcox, of Yelm. “His role as a House Republican is over.”

I don't see how someone who got kicked out of their party's caucus in the stage congress and asked to resign by their party leader in the congress is someone in "good standing" with the party.

For those wondering, he's not in the state congress anymore; he refused to resign despite being asked to, but didn't try to seek re-election.

Thanks for the info. I wonder if Great Lakes will respond to this.
 
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rjs330

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Sen. Rick Scott's plan for America says we should reauthorize every 5 years.
Sen. Ron Johnson says it should be voted on annually as "discretionary."
Lots of people have no income other than Social Security.
And very few seniors could afford medical insurance on the open market. For elderly people with lots of health issues it could easily cost $25K or more.

Links please.
 
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rjs330

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Sen. Rick Scott's plan for America says we should reauthorize every 5 years.
Sen. Ron Johnson says it should be voted on annually as "discretionary."
Lots of people have no income other than Social Security.
And very few seniors could afford medical insurance on the open market. For elderly people with lots of health issues it could easily cost $25K or more.

It appears that you've been lied to again by the Liberal media and the Democrats.

When will you learn?

Democrats Misleadingly Claim 'Republicans' Plan' Would 'End' Social Security, Medicare - FactCheck.org
 
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Fantine

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8n the hands of Republicans, historically, "fixing" is a euphemism for gutting. As was "privatizing."
As long as they think bankrupting the Treasury with tax cuts is their goal, they will have to.keep making the 99% pay for it.
 
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rjs330

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8n the hands of Republicans, historically, "fixing" is a euphemism for gutting. As was "privatizing."
As long as they think bankrupting the Treasury with tax cuts is their goal, they will have to.keep making the 99% pay for it.

So you are not going to admit you were wrong about your claims?
 
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GreatLakes4Ever

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Thanks for the info. I wonder if Great Lakes will respond to this.

Shea was kicked out of the GOP for a different reason. I responded admitting my error on him still being in the GOP and made a note on my original post.
 
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Fantine

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Rjs330, exactly what do you think would happen if a Republican legislature got a chance to "reauthorize" any, or every "entitlement" program (even the ones we've paid into all our lives)?
You know what would happen. You know exactly what would happen. So when Fact Check says, "oh, reauthorization doesn't "necessarily" mean programs would be gutted" anyone who knows Republicans means Fact Check is giving them a 1% benefit of the doubt.
After all, they are the party that tried to cancel the Affordable Care Act dozens of times.
The party that whittled the infrastructure law down by 2/3--and then voted against it.
 
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ViaCrucis

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"I want America to be better, I would love if it could be exceptional in a good way. But at present America is only exceptional in arrogance, spiritual delusion, in worshiping the false gods of Capitalism and Violence,"
What do you want to replace Capitalism with?

I think the best systems we see in the world at present are those which are mixed. Pure Capitalism is nothing more than a form of Social Darwinism in which the rich and powerful are rewarded for exploiting the weak and the poor. My problems with Marxism are that the Marxist utopia is impossible, the full elimination of the state and everyone just getting along ignores the ugly realities of human nature. Power abhors a vacuum, and that vacuum will be filled by something and someone.

A mixed economy that allows for free market enterprise but which shelters and protects workers and the vulnerable from exploitation and abuse--i.e. social programs and social safety nets--is arguably the best that we see at present in the world.

What, precisely, is the best way(s) to implement that can be debated by people far more competent and learned on the subject than I am. Within the limited scope of American politics, I am largely in favor of what I've seen Bernie Sanders and AOC talk about; and I believe that models that work outside of the US can be seen all over the rest of the Western world, the Scandinavian model, is a good example of this.

But Capitalism, unrestrained, unchecked, unregulated is pure and absolute evil run amok.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Yet if you do that you are blasted by the left who will tell you you are a bigot for telling someone not to sin. Or even calling what she did sin. How dare you even say what she was doing as sinful.

As a part of "the left" I can tell you this is patently untrue. For one, "the left" has millions of Christians, Jews, Muslims, and other religious people who subscribe to the ethical teachings of their faith, which includes fidelity toward one's spouse. For another, while non-religious people may not speak of "sin" as such, since sin is a religious-loaded term; it is abundantly obvious that atheists, agnostics, and other non-religious people recognize betraying the trust of another person as ethically wrong.

Go ahead, ask the non-religious people here if they think that cheating on one's partner is totally cool and not hurtful at all.

You see the cast majority of believers do believe in not punishing the sinner. We were all that at one time. But saying something is a sin is not wrong as Jesus proves in that story. And also at the story of the woman at the well.

One of my major criticisms against the present religious climate in American Christianity is precisely the failure to preach repentance. Christians are not hearing the Law preached (or the Gospel for that matter); instead here is what I have observed over the years: Christians are being fed a form of comfortable religion that says that, in essence, it is okay to not follow Jesus as long as one supports the right "team"; and so true repentance is not being preached. The number of times which I have interacted with fellow Christians who argue insistently that the Christian will not have to face Judgment on the Last Day is staggering and sad. And the flip of that is also the rampant moralizing that ignores the commandments of God in favor of pure man-made rules.

The Church needs to preach Law and Gospel. The Law, with its commandments, drives us to our knees in repentance as we behold the reality of our own sinfulness; I don't love God with all my heart, all my strength, all my mind, and with all my soul; I don't love my neighbor as myself; I don't turn the other cheek, I don't bless and not curse, I don't walk the extra mile. I am a sinner. So my charge is that Christians have forgotten that they are sinners, not ex-sinners, not sinners who are doing better than other sinners, but wretched sinners and should confess to themselves, "I am the chief of sinners" as St. Paul does. Because without this, there is no repentance, and without repentance we shipwreck our faith.

The Law to be preached as Law.
The Gospel to be preached as Gospel.

Never mixing the two, confusing the two, not preaching empty vacuous moralism rather than the Law, and not treating the Gospel of Jesus Christ as just another set of commandments, but as God-come-down-to-sinners-to-save-them.

I believe in American Exceptionalism

You shouldn't.

And Christ will triumph in the end and we will be part of that.

Christ our God has already triumphed. He has risen from the dead and has ascended, seated at the right hand of the Father. The victory of our God is not found in the machinations of power; but in giving ourselves away in love, and the hope of the just and good world of the Age to Come in the resurrection when Christ returns and God sets all things to rights.

Christian triumphalism has nothing to do with the victory of God.

And I do agree that there is heresy in the world today, Dominionism, gnosticism, the prosperity gospel. I don't think dispensationalism is heresy. It's simply a way to show different times during the history of Scripture including the end times. The end time particularly are up for debate concerning when Christ will come for his church. And there are solid reasons for all of them. I happen to believe that Christs will take his people home after the revelation of the Anti-Christ. This is not heretical doctrine.

Like I said, I wasn't talking about the rapture. Dispensationalism is a lot more than just describing different times. According to Dispensationalism this present "age of grace" is but merely a temporary parentheses in God's over-all plan and purposes. Dispensationalism teaches that before the so-called "age of grace" people were justified under the Law, and that this will again be the case after "the rapture"; as the Church is nothing more than a temporary thing, a side-project from God's real work through the earthly nation of Israel. And this is why the modern state of Israel is given so much importance, and therefore all the sins of the Israeli government, and the pain and suffering of Palestinians (including Palestinian Christians) can be justified and excused; after all one must "stand with Israel" because God will bless those who bless Abraham.

Maybe you don't personally believe all of that. But that's still right there in the Dispensationalist text books, and Dispensationalist seminaries are still teaching these things, and there are still pastors who have been trained in this nonsense out there who have ears willing to hear all of this. It's out there, and it's rampant.

And no one worships capitalism though some will worship money as seen in the prosperity doctrine.

What is the exploitation of the poor but the worship of money and power?

Do you believe that those in the church who think homosexuality is okay and that priests can be ordained as practicing homosexuals is worshipping hosexuality?

Nope. But affirming the human right to consenting love with another adult doesn't exploit, abuse, or injure anyone. So not exactly a great comparison.

How about those who believe in socialism. Are they worshipping socialism?

I've seen some who I think who worship the pride and arrogance of human ambition and progress, and worship an ideal over working toward justice and equity. So, yeah.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Ana the Ist

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Of course the Church hasn't "replaced Israel", because the Church is Israel. This is basic Christian teaching.

-CryptoLutheran

I've never heard any Christian say that in my life.

Is this the sort of thing regularly uttered in church? That Israel and church are the same?
 
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Ana the Ist

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When I was talking to you prior, I looked at your profile and looked at all the threads you had created I went back quite a distance and they all seemed to be about "whites" being oppressed.

I can't speak for any particular time period....

I've been here since the area open to atheists was about twice as big and there were philosophy and debate sections that I participated in, on a regular basis. These were closed off....and my presence wasn't much appreciated in apologetics either....and last I checked, that went too.

Still...some small subjects of no real matter are left open to me. News and Current Events, Ethics and Morality, and Politics.

I'd know for certain that if you saw back as far as the Obama years, I spoke about a pretty diverse set of topics....race rarely. Then as police videos were generating outrage...I participated in those. I don't claim to have always gotten those correct, but I never sided with police or shooting victim entirely either. Called it how I saw it.

That pivoted pretty quickly into a sort of cultural tirade against white people where lots if excuses for being racist against white people were propagated and accepted as well as all the other signifiers of rampant racism like blatant scapegoating to the defamation of white historical figures for any possible flaw....except a few. I think they went after a statue of Lenin somewhere, but Marx was never on the list. The terms just flew from the mouths of so many without any thought of what they meant, white fragility, white tears, Karen, white privilege, whiteness (as a cultural concept not lack of color)....and more than I care to count. Every media outlet that used to cover news all immediately converged on the same narrative. I still remember a reporter for the NYT I think who in maybe the first 3 months of Trump, mildly suggested, that attacking the largest voting group over characteristics they can't control or history they didn't participate in was perhaps the reason why Hillary lost and Trump won and maybe not a great strategy moving forward. I wonder if he still has a job.

And I think I can say it's changed my view of both the left as this sort of welcoming diverse group of freethinkers open to debate to figure out the best path forward.....to something very gross and ugly. My opinion of the right softened a little....not much...but when you realize you were so wrong about so many people it should give you reason to reconsider all the other people who you maybe misunderstood.

And I do have a very different view of the average person because of it. How can you not? I was naive. It changes the way you see history, large groups, the masses in general, etc. Perhaps the ideas I had were misinformed and needed reexamined.

Things posters...some of whom are still here....have said is mind blowingly bigoted and blatantly contradictory.

I had a poster once on one day....rail against the evils of racism and the harm it causes and all that...and when I posted an clear example of racism (by which I mean blatant, not "systemic" or "implicit" or "unconscious" or any other word that absolves people of the need for evidence) against white people....the same poster would only point out (much like yourself) how annoying it was for me to bring up these sort of blatant examples of racism towards white people.

I pointed out that in the other thread days before they claimed to outraged and vehemently against racism.

And they answered quite simply....not when it's against white people. That racism just doesn't matter.

And I know that person has some goofy justification that doesn't hold up....that's ok....I appreciated the honesty. I prefer honest racists to lying racists any day.

So if that's the time you looked at my posts....yeah....I brought it up. I genuinely thought someone should. I don't believe in "harmless racism". Once you start down the path of genuinely denigrating a group of people for a characteristic they cannot change and is essentially meaningless....I think that genuinely leads to harm. Sure, there are contexts where it doesn't....like in a comedy club....but in the context of a broader political ideology, it's not just a problem....it's repulsive and vile. I feel a slight notion of disgust and loathing towards those people.

But then BLM turned out to just be a big scam so the pivot from "help black people by hating white people" to "these trans people need to be saved....as early as possible....from their parents" happened quicker than you can say "school board meeting" so now I end up posting on that frequently.

Edit- and be honest. You either deliberately or accidentally mischaracterized me in your post. I doubt you have ever seen me say "white people are oppressed". I may have posted about racism towards white people....and I get that bothers a certain type of person. I don't hold those people in a very high regard though. Much in the way they don't actually care about racism...I don't actually care what they think of me.
 
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BPPLEE

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I've never heard any Christian say that in my life.

Is this the sort of thing regularly uttered in church? That Israel and church are the same?
Israel and the Church are separate. Gentiles are said to be grafted in but we are still separate from Israel. Some people teach replacement theology, that the Church replaced Israel and all the Old Testament promises God made were transferred to the Church. This is the kind of thinking that leads to antisemitism. I'm not a theologian but I'm not sure what he means when he says the Church is Israel.
 
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Ana the Ist

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He got kicked out of the Republican caucus in his state legislature:
https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2019/dec/19/rep-matt-shea-engaged-in-domestic-terrorism-during/

Party leaders asked him to resign:

“He absolutely should resign,” said Republican Minority Leader J.T. Wilcox, of Yelm. “His role as a House Republican is over.”

I don't see how someone who got kicked out of their party's caucus in the stage congress and asked to resign by their party leader in the congress is someone in "good standing" with the party.

For those wondering, he's not in the state congress anymore; he refused to resign despite being asked to, but didn't try to seek re-election.

I should have looked this up first instead of the holy war stuff.
 
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