Why is scripture so fuzzy about heaven and hell?

[Hmm]

We have to learn to accept both aspects of Jesus.
the lamb, and the lion.

Or that's something you need to unlearn. Jesus isn't a Jekyll and Hyde character with opposing natures. His mercy is just and His justice is merciful. He's never wrathful in the way you understand the word.

 

[Hmm]

But you neglect to understand that the first time Jesus came, it was to save the world. The second time Jesus comes, it is to judge the world.

We become what we worship and thankfully that's not the Jesus I worship.

 

[Jamdoc]

Or that's something you need to unlearn. Jesus isn't a Jekyll and Hyde character with opposing natures. His mercy is just and His justice is merciful. He's never wrathful in the way you understand the word.

It's not a split personality.
It's the same person.
Jesus is both merciful, but also has wrath against sin, and it is severe.

 

[Jamdoc]

We become what we worship and thankfully that's not the Jesus I worship.

Well I'd advise you learn and accept who Jesus is from scripture, not from your own desires of what you want Him to be.

 

[Hmm]

Well I'd advise you learn and accept who Jesus is from scripture, not from your own desires of what you want Him to be.

Ditto.

 

[Jamdoc]

Ditto.

That's funny because you want to ignore every time Jesus talked about eternal punishment, and displayed anger, or talked about wrath.
Jesus talked about CUTTING PEOPLE TO PIECES when He returned.
Mind you this is people who leave the faith, and participate in persecution of the saints before His return, but still.
It is not gentle fuzzy bunnies Saturday Morning Cartoons Jesus.
It is a Jesus who has a time of vengeance planned out that will stain His garments in blood.
The same Jesus that loves you and died for you to forgive your sin... is going to come back one day and it will be a slaughter. Angels even announce to all the carrion feeding birds to come to the battle to feast on the flesh of all the men that Jesus kills.
The first time Jesus came He was meek, but hinted that in the future the next time He came it would be in judgement.

 

[iwbswiaihl]

So you're perfectly comfortable and not at all sad, that all sea animals just go extinct, even though they did not sin?
that all things are made new.. except 70% of this planet?[/Q]

every tub sets on its own bottom

 

[Saint Steven]

Well you're going to have to reconcile that with all the scripture that teaches the wrath of God.

A religion of fear.
I'm sure everyone will want to join.
Who could trust a God like that?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

A religion of fear.
I'm sure everyone will want to join.
Who could trust a God like that?

The chemical reaction of fear can be addictive to some, perhaps "God" is more of a drug in this instance.

 

[Saint Steven]

The chemical reaction of fear can be addictive to some, perhaps "God" is more of a drug in this instance.

That may have helped to accelerate this religion of fear we inherited from the church. (the human institution) The purpose being to control the populous.

 

[Der Alte]

We become what we worship and thankfully that's not the Jesus I worship.

Sounds like you are worshipping the wrong Jesus.

 

[Hmm]

That's funny because you want to ignore every time Jesus talked about eternal punishment, and displayed anger, or talked about wrath.

Look at my post history! I must have posted hundreds of times about "eternal punishment" so hardly ignoring it. Granted, mainly to point out that it's a mistranslation of what Jesus actually said, which is "aionios kolasis" (correction lasting for an age) in scripture.

Jesus talked about CUTTING PEOPLE TO PIECES when He returned.

But did He SHOUT about it though?

It is not gentle fuzzy bunnies Saturday Morning Cartoons Jesus.

Ah, leave the bunnies, fuzzy or otherwise, out of it please. What have they ever done to you?

The same Jesus that loves you and died for you to forgive your sin... is going to come back one day and it will be a slaughter. Angels even announce to all the carrion feeding birds to come to the battle to feast on the flesh of all the men that Jesus kills.
The first time Jesus came He was meek, but hinted that in the future the next time He came it would be in judgement.

I'd stay in and try to keep out of trouble on that day then if I was you.

 

[Jamdoc]

A religion of fear.
I'm sure everyone will want to join.
Who could trust a God like that?

It's not about being seeker sensitive, it's about the truth. The at times difficult truth contained in the Bible.

The chemical reaction of fear can be addictive to some, perhaps "God" is more of a drug in this instance.

Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.
but no, it's not some sort of high. It's just I believe what the bible says on the matter. I can't sugarcoat.
That's part of the reason why I am ineffective at evangelism.
I can't sugarcoat and tickle people's ears.
The bible contains hard truths that are difficult for me to even read and meditate on.

 

[Hmm]

The at times difficult truth contained in the Bible.

The bible contains hard truths that are difficult for me to even read and meditate on.

One of the most difficult biblical truths to hear is that we should love one another as oursleves. That "as ourselves" is very hard for many people to do. But try it and stop thinking about Jesus CUTTING PEOPLE/YOU UP when He returns. He won't.

 

[Jamdoc]

Look at my post history! I must have posted hundreds of times about "eternal punishment" so hardly ignoring it. Granted, mainly to point out that it's a mistranslation of what Jesus actually said, which is "aionios kolasis" (correction lasting for an age) in scripture.
But did He SHOUT about it though?

It was to emphasize just how severe Jesus could be in judgement. The first time He came was not to judge the world but He warned the second time would be.

I'd stay in on that day then if I was you.

We won't be.. it's the unrighteous that hide in the dens and caves and call to the rocks to fall on them and hide them from Jesus.

Revelation 6

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Thankfully for us, where we will be "inside" is heaven.
On that day we'll be taken to heaven, and the dead in Christ raised up.

Isaiah 26

19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

and where are these chambers where we will hide ourselves from the indignation?

John 14

1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

for us the second coming is redemption
for the world? It's the wrath of God, it's judgement.

 

[Jamdoc]

One of the most difficult biblical truths to hear is that we should love one another as oursleves. That "as ourselves" is very hard for many people to do. But try it and stop thinking about Jesus CUTTING PEOPLE/YOU UP when He returns. He won't.

harder for me than most to be honest, because I don't love myself.

 

[Hmm]

harder for me than most to be honest, because I don't love myself.

Work on it then. Sorry to be blunt but that will work. Nothing else will.

 

[Der Alte]

Look at my post history! I must have posted hundreds of times about "eternal punishment", mainly to point out that it's a mistranslation of what Jesus actually said, which is "aionios kolasis" (correction lasting for an age) in scripture.* * *

Still spreading the false narrative that "aionios kolasis" means "correction lasting for an age." In Greek it is only 2 words to make it fit your false narrative you have to change "aionios kolasis" to 4 words and none of them is an adjective. What's the matter you can't find an English adjective and noun to translate it to?
Once again my argument from the Eastern Greek Orthodox translation.

EOB Matthew 25:46 When he will answer them, saying: ‘Amen, I tell you: as much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 These [ones on the left] will go away into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] punishment, [κόλασις/kolasis] but the righteous into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] life.”​

Greek has been the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church since its inception, 2000 years +/- ago. Who better than the team of native Greek speaking scholars, who translated the Eastern Greek Orthodox Bible [EOB] know the correct meaning of the Greek words in the N.T.?
Link to EOB online;
Link to: The New Testament ( The Eastern-Greek Orthodox Bible) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
…..The Greek word “kolasis” occurs only twice in the N.T., first occurrence Matt 25:46 and the second occurrence is 1 John 4:18.

EOB 1 John 4:18 here is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear, because fear is connected with punishment.[ κόλασις/kolasis] But the one who fears is not yet perfect in love.​

Note the native Greek speaking Eastern Orthodox Greek scholars translators of the EOB translated “aionios” as “eternal,” NOT age.
The Greek word “kolasis”is translated “punishment” in Matt 25:46 and 1 John 4:18. Some folks claim “kolasis” really means “prune” or “correction” but according to the EOB Greek scholars it means “punishment.” Note: 1 John 4:18 there is no correction, the one with “kolasis” is not made perfect.

 

[Hmm]

Still spreading the false narrative that "aionios kolasis" means "correction lasting for an age." In Greek it is only 2 words to make it fit your false narrative you have to change "aionios kolasis" to 4 words and none of them is an adjective. What's the matter you can't find an English adjective and noun to translate it to?
Once again my argument from the Eastern Greek Orthodox translation.

EOB Matthew 25:46 When he will answer them, saying: ‘Amen, I tell you: as much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 These [ones on the left] will go away into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] punishment, [κόλασις/kolasis] but the righteous into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] life.”​

Greek has been the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church since its inception, 2000 years +/- ago. Who better than the team of native Greek speaking scholars, who translated the Eastern Greek Orthodox Bible [EOB] know the correct meaning of the Greek words in the N.T.?
Link to EOB online;
Link to: The New Testament ( The Eastern-Greek Orthodox Bible) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
…..The Greek word “kolasis” occurs only twice in the N.T., first occurrence Matt 25:46 and the second occurrence is 1 John 4:18.

EOB 1 John 4:18 here is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear, because fear is connected with punishment.[ κόλασις/kolasis] But the one who fears is not yet perfect in love.​

Note the native Greek speaking Eastern Orthodox Greek scholars translators of the EOB translated “aionios” as “eternal,” NOT age.
The Greek word “kolasis”is translated “punishment” in Matt 25:46 and 1 John 4:18. Some folks claim “kolasis” really means “prune” or “correction” but according to the EOB Greek scholars it means “punishment.” Note: 1 John 4:18 there is no correction, the one with “kolasis” is not made perfect.

Good bot.

 

[Jamdoc]

Work on it then. Sorry to be blunt but that will work. Nothing else will.

There's nothing lovable about me.
Other people hate me so I just joined the club.