Unbiblical teachings from the church.

[Christopher0121]

I was Pentecostal for over 30 years. Today I'm a Catholic.

I've discovered that, without Sacred Tradition and the definitive Authority of the Church, anyone can make the Bible say anything. That's why there is only one Roman Catholic Church (and our Eastern brethren, the Orthodox) and FORTY THOUSAND versions of non-catholic Christian denominations, organizations, sects, and cults.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

I was Pentecostal for over 30 years. Today I'm a Catholic.

I've discovered that, without Sacred Tradition and the definitive Authority of the Church, anyone can make the Bible say anything.

And the RCC is not immune from it either , no denomination has a monopoly on the truth be it Catholic , Protestant or Eastern Orthodox

 

[Christopher0121]

And the RCC is not immune from it either , no denomination has a monopoly on the truth be it Catholic , Protestant or Eastern Orthodox

That too becomes a matter of interpretation. Being Catholic, I can share the Catholic insight. My Eastern brethren might not agree with the entirety of this conclusion as it relates to Peter, but we'll agree on the Church authority of the 7 Ecumenical Councils.

Jesus said something that speaks to this in some ways. In Matthew's Gospel it is recorded that Jesus said something foundational after Peter made his statement of faith in Christ as the Son of God...

Matthew 16:18-19
New Catholic Version
18 And I say to you: You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of the netherworld will not prevail against it. 19 I will give YOU the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatever YOU bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever YOU loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”​

Here Jesus promises that not only would He build His Church on the foundation of Peter's confession, but that the very gates of Hell wouldn't prevail against it. This means that in spite of any of its sins or challenges it faces, it will overcome and prevail until the very return of the Savior who founded her.

Next, we read that Jesus grants Peter the "keys of the kingdom of heaven" and whatsoever Peter was to bind on earth would be bound in Heaven and whatsoever Peter loosed on earth would be loosed in Heaven. What is this "binding and loosing" business? It's actually a Jewish term. So, lets look at the Jewish Encyclopedia regarding this...

Binding and loosing (Hebrew, asar ve-hittir) . . . Rabbinical term for ‘forbidding and permitting'. The power of binding and loosing was always claimed by the Pharisees. Under Queen Alexandra, the Pharisees, says Josephus (Wars of the Jews 1:5:2), “became the administrators of all public affairs so as to be empowered to banish and readmit whom they pleased, as well as to loose and to bind.” . . . The various schools had the power “to bind and to loose”; that is, to forbid and to permit (Talmud: Chagigah 3b); and they could also bind any day by declaring it a fast day (Talmud: Ta’anit 12a). . . . This power and authority, vested in the rabbinical body of each age of the Sanhedrin, received its ratification and final sanction from the celestial court of justice (Sifra, Emor, 9; Talmud: Makkot 23b).​

What Jesus is doing is appointing St. Peter the authority over this Church destined to prevail throughout history to "forbid and permit" as it relates to morals, teaching, and practice. It is this understanding that has grounded the Catholic Church and forged her unity throughout the ages, in spite of the humanity of those who are appointed the Seat of St. Peter.

Many wonder, but what about errors? This is a great question. Here's my understanding...

The One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church of the Creeds is... Christ's Church. We Catholics believe Jesus preserves her from error through the Holy Spirit working in our Popes, Cardinals, Bishops, and Deacons, and those councils (the first being the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15, [Acts 15:28]) that have been appointed. This is precisely what Jesus promised the 12...

John 16:12-14
New Catholic Bible
12 “I have much more to tell you,
but you would not be able to bear it now.
13 But when the Spirit of truth comes,
he will guide you into all the truth.
He will not speak on his own authority,
but he will speak what he hears,
and he will declare to you
the things that are coming.
14 He will glorify me,
for he will take what is mine
and communicate it to you.​

Acts 15:28
New Catholic Bible
28 It is the decision of the Holy Spirit and also our decision not to lay any further burden upon you beyond these essentials:...​

This authority given by Christ to Peter was delegated. And being delegated by Christ, it can be delegated by Peter. In the Second Epistle of Clement to James II it is recorded that Peter himself transferred this authority to live on after his death...

“I communicate to him the power of binding and loosing so that, with respect to everything which he shall ordain in the earth, it shall be decreed in the heavens; for he shall bind what ought to be bound and loose what ought to be loosed as knowing the rule of the Church.” (3:215)​

So, instead of believing in thousands of different churches with thousands of different pastors who are allegedly led of the Spirit (who all disagree) we believe in a single pastor, or "Pope", of the Church, and a Magisterium who is guided by the Spirit. This doesn't mean all our Popes or leaders have been perfect. We've had some rascals. It's like the Presidency, not every American President has been on the up and up, but they are still the President. A Pope's position is only infallible if it doesn't violate Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and the established teachings of the Magisterium. For example, Francis spoke against the Latin Mass. Well, a church in my town boldly advertises... "LATIN MASS, Sundays 10 AM." LOL Why? Pope Francis' position on this isn't infallible. It bucks against Sacred Tradition and common historical practice. To condemn it would be to condemn every Catholic prior to Vatican II. LOL So, it's not as dictatorial as many might think. This is why some Popes and Councils have reversed the decrees of Popes by changing direction on those issues.

So, the Catholic believes only one Church was given the authority to definitively speak and define the truth. And that is the Church that after 2,000 years is still led by the one who sits in the Seat of Peter. She has not always lived up to her calling. However, in our understanding, she's the Church.

 

[JulieB67]

I believe the church is the many membered body of true Christians. Denomination should have no place. That's the true church. And it will prevail and always has. Traditions which many churches have make void the true word of God. I know, I left mine years ago when certain beliefs could not be backed up in the word. Man changes but God's word never does.

One should have the Father/Christ and the word of God. We can't always let the churches lead us.

="Aquila0121, post: 76708381, member: 287379"we believe in a single pastor, or "Pope", of the Church,

The veil was rent top to bottom -symbolizing that anyone can go straight to the Father through Christ.

And we are to study the scriptures to show ourselves approved.

 

[timothyu]

And the RCC is not immune from it either , no denomination has a monopoly on the truth be it Catholic , Protestant or Eastern Orthodox

And you will notice early Christians pre-Gentile invasion did not stop going to the synagogue either. There was no need to, as Jesus' Gospel of the Kingdom was about the Father and His return to take away governance of man by fellow man. Their persecution was over the identity of Jesus, not His Gospel.

 

[timothyu]

Here Jesus promises that not only would He build His Church on the foundation of Peter's confession, but that the very gates of Hell wouldn't prevail against it. This means that in spite of any of its sins or challenges it faces, it will overcome and prevail until the very return of the Savior who founded her.

Yes it would be very hard for anything to prevail against God's truth, the very thing Jesus said in previous verse was behind Peter's statement. Any hint of the world within the church would not be of God as God's truth ran contrary to the truths of man which have formed the ways of this world in our own image. This would especially include any mimicking of man's previous institutions, yet The Way of the original church was set aside. Gentiles expected religious life to mirror their traditions in the same way the Jews expected their messiah to mirror previous kings.
And yes the HS whose purpose is as a guiding wind, was given to those who followed the Kingdom to help keep them on it's path rather than falling to the wayside unfruitful or back into the world and kingdoms of man as the Gentiles would do. The HS wasn't licence to make stuff up but to protect the Gospel of the Kingdom.

 

[wendykvw]

Does reading the bible somehow make you infallible? I am certain that God covers the world with Grace and with that understands our limitations.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Does reading the bible somehow make you infallible? I am certain that God covers the world with Grace and with that understands our limitations.

No it sure doesn’t but there is no way to know God apart from His revealed word

 

[timothyu]

The veil was rent top to bottom -symbolizing that anyone can go straight to the Father through Christ.

Jesus in the Holy place of that new tabernacle which must be passed to meet God and now can be also by us as the veil is torn. (John 14:6 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.) Where is God? In the new Kingdom. The Holy Place where as in the original there was bread and light, now also Jesus the bread and light. Also the incense alter where prayers are no longer made to God on behalf of the people but where Jesus directly intercedes for us as we approach the Throne. The outer court full of we who teach the gospel of the Kingdom as directed by Jesus 2000 years ago, those who seek to give up control and live under God's will, and for a short time before judgment for those who ignore the gospel of the Kingdom teaching a lesser gospel convenient to mankind.
Matthew 7: 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

[timothyu]

No it sure doesn’t but there is no way to know God apart from His revealed word

Everyone seems to seek God in our own way. I believe one can come to the conclusion of who we are. That we are an extension of God, but in rejecting His will for our own we have become our own worst enemy. His revealed word however shows starting with Eve, the history of God saying put His will first and of man continually rejecting it and showing the consequences. It is a shortcut. Revealed word tells us to repent of those self serving ways and return ourselves to His oversight just as anyone who seeks God and hates what mankind has become will seek out the counter-culture of the Kingdom in seeking ways to live opposite to traditional man's, even if they have never heard of Jesus who brought the good news of the Kingdom. Finding Him along with our true selves and God is a bonus. People gravitate towards love even if they don't know why.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Everyone seems to seek God in our own way. I believe one can come to the conclusion of who we are. That we are an extension of God, but in rejecting His will for our own we have become our own worst enemy. His revealed word however shows starting with Eve, the history of God saying put His will first and of man continually rejecting it and showing the consequences. It is a shortcut. Revealed word tells us to repent of those self serving ways and return ourselves to His oversight just as anyone who seeks God and hates what mankind has become will seek out the counter-culture of the Kingdom in seeking ways to live opposite to traditional man's, even if they have never heard of Jesus who brought the good news of the Kingdom. Finding Him along with our true selves and God is a bonus. People gravitate towards love even if they don't know why.

Are you saying there is salvation apart from the gospel of Christ as outlined in 1 Corinthians 15:1-8 ?

 

[timothyu]

Are you saying there is salvation apart from the gospel of Christ as outlined in 1 Corinthians 15:1-8 ?

What did Jesus say His Gospel was?

 

[Christopher0121]

I believe the church is the many membered body of true Christians. Denomination should have no place. That's the true church. And it will prevail and always has. Traditions which many churches have make void the true word of God. I know, I left mine years ago when certain beliefs could not be backed up in the word. Man changes but God's word never does.

One should have the Father/Christ and the word of God. We can't always let the churches lead us.



The veil was rent top to bottom -symbolizing that anyone can go straight to the Father through Christ.

And we are to study the scriptures to show ourselves approved.

I believe God hears every sincere prayer of contrition and repentance. For example, if going down in a plane God hears sincere prayers of contrition.

However, let's remember that when one sins... one sins against not only God... but the Body of Christ. This is why we have the Sacrament of Reconciliation. Think of it like a private altar call, with pastoral counseling built into the process.

The priest bears witness to your contrition before God and counsels you regarding the sin. Is it a mortal sin or a venial sin? What is the root source of the sin? How can you overcome the sin? Is there penance necessary regarding a given sin? Do you unnecessarily bear guilt or shame for a sin... and it isn't your fault? The priest helps you to rebuild what the sin has destroyed in your life and restore you into full fellowship with the Church.

I was a Pentecostal for 30 years before becoming Catholic. I also rolled with the Baptists for several years. I was their "Bapticostal Brother". LOL After my heart attack, God called me to Catholicism. I realized that I couldn't just mutter my confessions into the carpet and keep my sin secret between me and God any longer. I had to face them, own them, and come clean before my priest. Every single ugly, personal, private, sin. Every lie, every lust, every act, everything. I began to realize, the Church has a far greater role in being the Body of Christ to minister to me beyond entertaining music and a dazzling sermon closed with an emotional appeal. It was now game day. I needed to get right. I had God ordained spiritual authority I had to be accountable to.

I'm now thankful for the intercession of a priest. It's no different than having a pastor really. In a way, it's more intimate. I felt I had to hide certain things from my pastor as "unspoken needs" to maintain good standing in the church. Not so as a Catholic. The priest has heard it all. And acting in the role Christ appointed, he becomes the conduit of God's grace. When Pentecostal, pastors just screamed, "I PLEAD THE BLOOD!" and you fell down cleansed. lol Now, it's not as exciting. But it is the same concept. lol

In my own life, I've discovered that for me... Christianity without the role of the Church and the ministry in my life isn't much of a Christianity at all.

 

[Christopher0121]

Yes it would be very hard for anything to prevail against God's truth, the very thing Jesus said in previous verse was behind Peter's statement. Any hint of the world within the church would not be of God as God's truth ran contrary to the truths of man which have formed the ways of this world in our own image. This would especially include any mimicking of man's previous institutions, yet The Way of the original church was set aside. Gentiles expected religious life to mirror their traditions in the same way the Jews expected their messiah to mirror previous kings.
And yes the HS whose purpose is as a guiding wind, was given to those who followed the Kingdom to help keep them on it's path rather than falling to the wayside unfruitful or back into the world and kingdoms of man as the Gentiles would do. The HS wasn't licence to make stuff up but to protect the Gospel of the Kingdom.

Then... why are there FORTY THOUSAND different versions of the Holy Spirit's leadings among non-Catholics? And all these denominations, churches, sects, and cults teach vastly different things. Oh, people talk about being "spirit led"... but get y'all talking about a theological point and you turn on each other like wild dogs in debate. lol I've lived it. It's chaos.

I rest knowing the Spirit has led the Catholic Church for 2,000 years now and will continue to lead and guide her. Isn't it interesting how all these strange bedfellows all have different teachings that the "Holy Spirit" revealed to them or their founders... yet they unite like the Borg against the Catholic Church? LOL I find that rather telling. In my own life I realized I was running from the Catholic faith all my life. I NEVER imagined I'd be Catholic. When God began leading me to Catholicism, I was angry. Anything but that! I'll become Amish or even Quaker before Catholic. lol Nope. God opened my eyes to things I can't possibly deny now. And I have actually gained answers for all my questions regarding their beliefs and practices, answers I was told didn't exist. lol But now I get it. But my point is... for many... be it themselves as individuals... or as non-Catholic religious bodies... it's like anything goes... but being Catholic. lol

Now that I'm on the other side of that battle... I can honestly say... the world is a LOT like the Matrix. What if I told you everything you ever heard, thought, or believed about the Catholic Church was wrong? lol That's my experience. lol Go in peace. God bless ya. lol

 

[Christopher0121]

This was a duplicate post. Not sure how that happened. lol

 

[timothyu]

Then... why are there FORTY THOUSAND different versions of the Holy Spirit's leadings among non-Catholics?

Because all (including yours) have their own personal agendas, everything from power to simply free enterprise. Rather than living Jesus' commandments as the Way once did, they make a religious institution out of it. They accepted almost from the beginning of the gentiles and the Sanhedrin before them, what Jesus turned down in the desert. Only for a brief time did Christians live as intended.

 

[Christopher0121]

Because all (including yours) have their own personal agendas, everything from power to simply free enterprise. Rather than living Jesus' commandments as the Way once did, they make a religious institution out of it. They accepted almost from the beginning of the gentiles and the Sanhedrin before them, what Jesus turned down in the desert. Only for a brief time did Christians live as intended.

As I said, I was a non-Catholic Christian for over 30 years. I've seen what I'm referring to.

For example, let's say two brothers come to a deep divide on doctrine regarding a passage of Scripture. Each is taking two radically different positions. And when read, the Scripture itself can be taken several ways and so it isn't entirely clear. Of course, to each man, he thinks his position is the clear position. But neither realizes their are both presupposing their interpretations. Who has the authority to determine proper doctrine and or practice in such cases? Who might also issue sanction or excommunication against the one deemed heretical?

 

[timothyu]

But neither realizes their are both presupposing their interpretations. Who has the authority to determine proper doctrine and or practice in such cases?

Who told them to get hung up on doctrine or whatever in the first place? Jesus' Gospel of the Kingdom was clear and needs no interpretation (which is one of a couple reasons why it is most likely ignored in favour of another). Religion is what happens when people start to philosophize on how it can be adapted to suit themselves.

 

[Valletta]

For the previous 1000 or so years, otherwise known as the dark ages, the Catholic Church was dominant in matters concerning the bible, faith, serving God, etc. The Catholic Bibles were all in Latin and things read from the bible were read in Latin. The problem was that only the Catholic Clergy and a small number of educated men could read and write Latin. Common people didn't understand Latin. The Catholic Church had outlawed any other translation of the Bible in another language. It was a crime for a commoner to own a Bible. For a period of time, it was the death penalty for an unauthorized person to be in the possession of a bible.

False. You and I owe a great debt to the Catholic Church--no Catholic Church, no Bible. So many Catholics translated Biblical text into the common languages of the people. After Latin surpassed Greek as to the common language of the people, the Latin Vulgate under the direction of Saint Jerome became by far the standard Bible.
"Vulgate" comes from "vulgar" or "common," meaning the common language of the people. Eventually Latin morphed into various languages such as Italian, Spanish, and French, and then came more translations by Catholics. In England long before Wycliffe and Tyndale, there were many translations of Biblical text by Catholics. To mention just a few of them, Venerable Bede, a Catholic monk, is perhaps the best known for his translation in the 700s. King Alfred the Great had not finished his translation of Psalms before he died, that would have been in the 800s. Now a lot of Biblical texts by Catholics have been destroyed, remember Protestants in England seized Catholic monasteries and gave the land to wealthy Protestants. But some do exist, you can find some of Alfred’s translations in a manuscript dated as around 1050. These are in the English of the Saxons: The Illustrated Psalms of Alfred the Great: The Old English Paris Psalter When the Normans took over the English changed, the paraphrase of Orm is dated around 1150 and is an example of a Catholic translation into Middle English. The Catholic Church has strongly defended the Bible, and took action over the centuries to prevent those who would add or subtract from the Word of God. Catholic had to flee England at one time in order to publish an English version (the Douay Rheims, they did so in France and suffered severe consequences for trying to smuggle English Bibles to the people of England. Eventually a Catholic named Gutenberg introduced the printing press, and, of course, the first book he printed was the Bible.

One of the main tenets of the Catholic Church, then and now, is that the traditions and teachings of the Catholic Church are superior to Scripture

This too is false. The teaching of Jesus as passed down through the Apostles and popes, the Word of God, consists of both oral and written teachings. Neither oral nor written teachings, Sacred Scripture or Sacred Tradition, is superior to the other. Catholics have a Catechism, and you have so much misinformation about the Catholic Church that I strongly urge to quote directly from the Catholic Catechism when publicly making claims about supposed Catholic teaching.

 

[timothyu]

After Latin surpassed Greek as to the common language of the people, the Latin Vulgate under the direction of Saint Jerome became by far the standard Bible.

Much later as you said. So claim is being made by a late comer previously given no authourity in the Roman Empire after the civil war where Greek won out over Latin in bot secular and church life. Yes credit can be given but not to just the western Catholics.