Oathkeeper pleads guilty to seditious conspiracy

[Hans Blaster]

I quoted your post; don't know what you are talking about....

Open the quotation box in post #47. All of that stuff about PR is something you copy-pasted into your reply. It is irrelevant and that's what I was noting. The commutation of their sentences is *NOT* how I know he will not receive the full (20+20 year) sentence. It is because I read the plea agreement. (And I have been following a number of federal criminal cases and have learned how they operate.)

 

[Hans Blaster]

Ehhhhh, do you have the money to defend yourself against the federal gov?......talk about a stacked deck......

Just going to keep moving the goal posts, eh? Doesn't matter, since I've already demonstrated that it wasn't all trespass and mischief.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Open the quotation box in post #47. All of that stuff about PR is something you copy-pasted into your reply. It is irrelevant and that's what I was noting. The commutation of their sentences is *NOT* how I know he will not receive the full (20+20 year) sentence. It is because I read the plea agreement. (And I have been following a number of federal criminal cases and have learned how they operate.)

Ahhhh....that makes more sense. My point was people who came into congress, shot it up, wounded several and yet 25 years later were released. Where as a demonstration that gets out of hand has people, especially governmental officials, calling for charges of sedition. Maybe a little imbalanced here?

 

[civilwarbuff]

Just going to keep moving the goal posts, eh? Doesn't matter, since I've already demonstrated that it wasn't all trespass and mischief.

NOpe, that applies to al gov prosecution.......an endless checkbook against what you have in your checking account does not seem to be a fair basis of representation.

 

[Bradskii]

Well I did see an unarmed woman get killed by a federal officer......anyone else see that?.....just ask'n.......

That was part of the tragedy that day.

It wasn't so long ago that if you suggested that people would storm the Capitol to protest an election and that people would be killed as a result, you would be thought a fool. Is this some alternative universe story? Who on earth could see that actually appening in America?

I grew up in a time when America was seen as the light on the hill for many of us. A world recovering from a world war, we turned to the US as a young kid would turn to his older brother for help. Someone you could trust. Someone who was an example to many. A country that stood for something. Democratic ideals. A sense of justice.

Now we've seen what you almost became. What you could still become. Now we've seen the ugly side. And although I guess we'd always known there were problems - civil rights, Vietnam, Watergate...we glossed over them and looked instead at your acheivements.

But now respect has been lost. And it'll take some time to get it back. Because you need to be able to respect your own country before you can ask others to respect you in turn. And I don't see that happening for quite some time.

A house divided against itself...

 

[civilwarbuff]

It wasn't so long ago that if you suggested that people would storm the Capitol to protest an election and that people would be killed as a result, you would be thought a fool. Is this some alternative universe story? Who on earth could see that actually appening in America?

In case you missed it.....

1954 United States Capitol shooting
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1954 United States Capitol attack
Location Washington, D.C.
Date March 1, 1954
Target United States Capitol (chamber of the House of Representatives)
Attack type
Shooting
Weapons Semi-automatic pistols: Walther P38 9mm, Luger P08 9mm, Artillery Luger 9mm.[1]
Deaths 0
Injured 5 (Alvin M. Bentley, Clifford Davis, Ben F. Jensen, George Hyde Fallon, and Kenneth A. Roberts)
Perpetrators Lolita Lebrón, Rafael Cancel Miranda, Andrés Figueroa Cordero, and Irvin Flores Rodríguez
Motive Puerto Rican independence movement
Part of a series on the
Puerto Rican
Nationalist Party

Flag of the Puerto Rican Nationalist Party


Events and revolts


Nationalist leaders


Notable nationalists

• v
• t
• e

The 1954 United States Capitol shooting was an attack on March 1, 1954, by four Puerto Rican nationalists who sought to promote the cause of Puerto Rico's independence from US rule. They fired 30 rounds from semi-automatic pistols onto the legislative floor from the Ladies' Gallery (a balcony for visitors) of the House of Representatives chamber within the United States Capitol.

The nationalists, identified as Lolita Lebrón, Rafael Cancel Miranda, Andres Figueroa Cordero, and Irvin Flores Rodríguez, unfurled a Puerto Rican flag and began shooting at Representatives in the 83rd Congress, who were debating an immigration bill. Five Representatives were wounded, one seriously, but all recovered. The assailants were arrested, tried and convicted in federal court, and given long sentences, amounting to life imprisonment. In 1978 and 1979, their sentences were commuted by President Jimmy Carter.[2] All four returned to Puerto Rico.

Is this some alternative universe story? Who on earth could see that actually appening in America?

Yeah, who could?......
The Kent State shootings, also known as the May 4 massacre and the Kent State massacre,[3][4][5] were the killings of four and wounding of nine other unarmed Kent State University students by the Ohio National Guard on May 4, 1970 in Kent, Ohio, 40 mi (64 km) south of Cleveland. The killings took place during a peace rally opposing the expanding involvement of the Vietnam War into Cambodia by United States military forces as well as protesting the National Guard presence on campus. The incident marked the first time that a student had been killed in an anti-war gathering in United States history.

A house divided against itself...

In case you didn't notice, we survived that......

 

[Hans Blaster]

I'm going to guess the Feds infiltrated his group, spurred them on, tracked them to DC and then took them down. Lesson: if you meet some hot-shot advocating illegal actions, walk away.

So far there is no indication of infiltration by law enforcement in this case or any other. (There are some confidential informants on IDs in many cases, but those are after the fact IDs by people who recognize their pictures.)

This is an old fashioned rat-out-your-comrades-get-a-better-sentence deal. (So is the previous "OK" to plead to seditious conspiracy.) His statement of offense (what he admitted to in open court) contains records of currently uncharged persons during the riot including just before he and his buddy rushed from their hotel to the active riot.

 

[High Fidelity]

Well I did see an unarmed woman get killed by a federal officer......anyone else see that?.....just ask'n.......

You mean a member of a mob that violently gained access to a government building and was in the process of breaching a barricaded door?

Yes, I saw someone win the prize for the game they were playing.

The only tragedy in that scenario is that she allowed herself to be manipulated by Trump’s rhetoric. I don’t place all the blame on her, but ultimately it was her own actions that forced someone’s hand.

 

[civilwarbuff]

You mean a member of a mob that violently gained access to a government building and was in the process of breaching a barricaded door?

Yes, I saw someone win the prize for the game they were playing.

The only tragedy in that scenario is that she allowed herself to be manipulated by Trump’s rhetoric. I don’t place all the blame on her, but ultimately it was her own actions that forced someone’s hand.

Do you know his name?......does anyone?.......why not?......why is it a secret?......anyone even curious?.....hmmm.....

 

[Bradskii]

In case you didn't notice, we survived that......

And paid an awful price. And you seem utterly unaware of the price you are paying now.

 

[civilwarbuff]

And paid an awful price. And you seem utterly unaware of the price you are paying now.

And that price is?.......what exactly?

 

[High Fidelity]

Do you know his name?......does anyone?.......why not?......why is it a secret?......anyone even curious?.....hmmm.....

Probably because the same insecure boys playing toy soldier whenever they get a chance would threaten his life.

Not all matters of national security are discussed for obvious reasons, and that’s what she and that mob were threatening.

More blood on Trump’s hands.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Probably because the same insecure boys playing toy soldier whenever they get a chance would threaten his life.

Not all matters of national security are discussed for obvious reasons, and that’s what she and that mob were threatening.

More blood on Trump’s hands.

Sorry, but someone from the UK commenting on this is just simply laughable to me......go drink some tea or have have a pint of bitter......but please don't waste my time with your comments on our politics......

 

[High Fidelity]

Sorry, but someone from the UK commenting on this is just simply laughable to me......go drink some tea or have have a pint of bitter......but please don't waste my time with your comments on our politics......

Nice. Need I remind you of America’s involvement in foreign politics over the last 50 years? All of which certainly extend well beyond simply discussing an opinion on a forum.

 

[Bradskii]

And that price is?.......what exactly?

Aren't you reading the thread?

Respect. That's what you've lost. People now look at you and think 'What on earth has gone wrong?' That sort of event only used to happen in banana republics. In countries that didn't know any better. Where an attempt to overturn a democratically decided election was par for the course. Where violence in the very centre of the democratic process wouldn't raise an eyebrow. Where people like MTG would be on the very edges of the lunatic fringe and not part of the government itself.

You don't have a fault line in your society any more. You have an unbridgeable chasm. You are now used to show how delicate the democratic process actually is. You used to be looked upon as an example of what could be achieved. Now you're used as an example of what can go so wrong.

That's the price you paid.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Nice. Need I remind you of America’s involvement in foreign politics over the last 50 years? All of which certainly extend well beyond simply discussing an opinion on a forum.

Only if you understand the politics.....which you don't......

 

[civilwarbuff]

Aren't you reading the thread?

Respect. That's what you've lost. People now look at you and think 'What on earth has gone wrong?' That sort of event only used to happen in banana republics. In countries that didn't know any better. Where an attempt to overturn a democratically decided election was par for the course. Where violence in the very centre of the democratic process wouldn't raise an eyebrow. Where people like MTG would be on the very edges of the lunatic fringe and not part of the government itself.

You don't have a fault line in your society any more. You have an unbridgeable chasm. You are now used to show how delicate the democratic process actually is. You used to be looked upon as an example of what could be achieved. Now you're used as an example of what can go so wrong.

That's the price you paid.

Sorry, but you are just a parody of what people believe of us.....a political parody at that and nothing more. We did not fall apart with Shay's Rebellion; we did not fall apart with our civil war. Your opinion of us won't do any harm either. You should be concerned about China and not us.....that is the threat at your doorstep......unless, of course, Marxism is your goal.......

 

[Bradskii]

Sorry, but you are just a parody of what people believe of us.....a political parody at that and nothing more. We did not fall apart with Shay's Rebellion; we did not fall apart with our civil war. Your opinion of us won't do any harm either. You should be concerned about China and not us.....that is the threat at your doorstep......unless, of course, Marxism is your goal.......

I see you are not getting the point being made. Other people's opinions of the US do matter. Not mine or other ordinary Australians, or Brits or French. But those who make decisions on the world stage.

You were thought of as a leader. Someone whose voice was worth listening to. Someone who commanded respect (note the past tense). Even amongst your enemies. And your enemies are a concern. Because they are also my enemies. Russia, obviously. And China of course. And they will advance their position when they see weakness. So we need you to be strong. But you're not. You are divided.

Jan 6 wasn't the problem. It was an altogther visible symptom of that which ails you. And while you're trying to get your act together, the world is a little more of a dangerous place to live.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Do you know his name?......does anyone?.......why not?......why is it a secret?......anyone even curious?.....hmmm.....

Do... You.... Know.... How .... to .... DO .... an .... Internet .... Search??

Your presented ignorance about Jan 6 is either due to some complete lack of curiosity or it is feigned for ideological purpose. I'd hope for the former, but you keep suggesting it is the latter.

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

And that price is?.......what exactly?

Subverting your own democracy. And making it more likely that this kind of thing will occur in the future.