Why are some Christians anti Evolution?

[stevil]

I would say its a specific doctrine some hold to - that the Bible was inspired in a way of a dictation, ie every word in it is from God, from the perspective of God and without any possible error.

I saw a Youtube show once, where some guy who was a biblical expert explained that there is no definitive version of the Bible.

He explained that all we have is copies of copies of copies, and that there are many of these, and that they all differ from each other (not always significantly but quite often in trivial ways).
But there is no definitive word for word version.

Skip to 1m45.

 

[Sorn]

If I was timeless, then I would persist throughout all time. I would never have to wait, I would merely shift my consciousness (in an instant) to the point in time that I felt was interesting.


The god might have, but didn't need to.
If the god did, then great, if the god didn't, then great too. Neither approach seems to be a challenge to the god story.

"If I was timeless, then I would persist throughout all time. I would never have to wait, I would merely shift my consciousness (in an instant) to the point in time that I felt was interesting."
You are presuming a lot about God and how He exists in His spiritual realm. Timeless or more correctly eternal means He doesn't change, unless He wants to, nothing can change Him from outside. So He persists forever as He is. It says nothing about His timeline, He may be outside our timeline but even Heaven has a timeline, so for example there was a time (in Heaven) before the fall of Satan and a time after his fall.

 

[Sorn]

I saw a Youtube show once, where some guy who was a biblical expert explained that there is no definitive version of the Bible.

He explained that all we have is copies of copies of copies, and that there are many of these, and that they all differ from each other (not always significantly but quite often in trivial ways).
But there is no definitive word for word version.

Skip to 1m45.

But yet the central message has remained the same, we are fallen due to sin and only Jesus through His sacrifice can remove that sin and restore us to God.

 

[trophy33]

I saw a Youtube show once, where some guy who was a biblical expert explained that there is no definitive version of the Bible.

He explained that all we have is copies of copies of copies, and that there are many of these, and that they all differ from each other (not always significantly but quite often in trivial ways).
But there is no definitive word for word version.

Skip to 1m45.

They believe that the whole Bible, every word, was inspired in a perfect, dictation-like manner. They may admit that todays printed Bibles have errors, but not significant ones altering the original words too much.

So when they read Genesis, they do not accept it can be a poetry or some dramatical mythological expression of the time, they believe it was dictated in a scientific manner to give us technical account of how it literally happened.

This view has it roots in Seventh Day Adventists church, i.e. in 18th/19th century in America. Most of creationist/sabbatical/christian-veganism websites are from this church.

There is also some conspiracy mindset sometimes involved, like "scientists conspire to supress the truth and to lie to us". The most extremist YEC are also flat earthers or KJVO.

 

[stevil]

The main reason is no death before sin. The origin of sin, the result of sin and the answer for sin is part of the gospel.

I don't want to get too much into discussion about the contents of the bible. I haven't read it, I have a very poor understanding of the Christian position on the bible.

I have had people talk about the concept of "second death".
As a way to explain why in the bible God said to Adam and Eve that if they ate the fruit then they would die on that day, and the snake told them they would not die. In the story Adam and Eve ate the fruit, but they did not die on that day.

Also Jesus death and resurrection was supposed to be a sacrificial to pay the debt of our sins. And yet people continue to die to this day.

Sooooo, is it possible that the idea of original sin bringing death into the world was more with regards to this concept of "second death"?????

Sorry if I sound silly here. Clearly I don't know what I am talking about.

 

[trophy33]

I have a very poor understanding of the Christian position on the bible.

There are basically views like:
a) every word was dictated by God
b) God inspired all thoughts, but words and formulations are from human authors
c) God inspired writers to some level, for example regarding monotheism and salvation, but let them express the rest in their language, poetry, symbolism, whatever they liked, including errors

Majority of Chritianity will fall into b) or c) in some combination of them, but there is a very active and vocative minority holding the a). This one is probably the most visible to you.

And of course there are some unChristian views like "the Bible has nothing to do with any inspiration from God", which is probably what you hold.

 

[renniks]

Why would animals having souls be an implication of evolutionary theory?

The question is backwards... how would souls evolve in smart apes?

 

[renniks]

There isn't any evidence that they don't have them either, the bible is silent on that topic because its not primarily a scientific book. Its the story of God's relationship with man and the story of Jesus principally. Like it says in 1 Corinthians 13:12 - wee see only a dim reflection of reality.

If you really believe animals have souls, do they need a Savior? Could you eat animals if you think they have souls just like humans do?
"I said in my heart with regard to the children of man that God is testing them that they may see that they themselves are but beasts. For what happens to the children of man and what happens to the beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts, for all is vanity. All go to one place. All are from the dust, and to dust all return. Who knows whether the spirit of man goes upward and the spirit of the beast goes down into the earth? So I saw that there is nothing better than that a man should rejoice in his work, for that is his lot. Who can bring him to see what will be after him?"

 

[ottawak]

The question is backwards... how would souls evolve in smart apes?

What makes you think that souls evolve?

 

[renniks]

What makes you think that souls evolve?

I don't. I think God breathed into man and he became a living soul... not any animal. And this happened when God created men separate from the animals.

 

[Sorn]

If you really believe animals have souls, do they need a Savior? Could you eat animals if you think they have souls just like humans do?
"I said in my heart with regard to the children of man that God is testing them that they may see that they themselves are but beasts. For what happens to the children of man and what happens to the beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts, for all is vanity. All go to one place. All are from the dust, and to dust all return. Who knows whether the spirit of man goes upward and the spirit of the beast goes down into the earth? So I saw that there is nothing better than that a man should rejoice in his work, for that is his lot. Who can bring him to see what will be after him?"

Yes its a bit of conundrum. Firstly if animals have souls, they won't be the same as ours, they would be lesser souls. Animals don't sin like us, at least not the ones i know so while they exist in this fallen world and die, hopefully they too will exist in the new heaven and earth to come. I certainly hope my much loved pets can be there as I consider them part of my family.

However I also recognize that an implication is of animals having souls would be that might there be millions of pigs, cows, sheep, goats and chickens in heaven, all the animals we have bred just for our consumption. I don't know.

What about all the wild animals that ever lived & whats the cutoff?? I don't imagine every mosquito thats ever lived will be in heaven.

So i don't know, maybe its selective, if an animal was significant to a human in an emotional way then that animal will be in heaven too but not others. Its something we will have to wait to see but yeah, I hope my pets are there. Though again, how they would exist in eternity, ie what would they do etc, i don't know, I don't even know what i'll be doing for eternity let alone my pets.

 

[Sorn]

I don't. I think God breathed into man and he became a living soul... not any animal. And this happened when God created men separate from the animals.

So you don't think we have a soul that survives our bodily death? So we are no different from the animals then.

 

[ottawak]

I don't. I think God breathed into man and he became a living soul... not any animal. And this happened when God created men separate from the animals.

Well then, why bring it up? Nobody else thinks souls evolve.

 

[ottawak]

So you don't think we have a soul that survives our bodily death? So we are no different from the animals then.

No, it's just more creationist passive aggression.

 

[Sorn]

No, it's just more creationist passive aggression.

Ok, but if we don't have a soul that persists after death then when God resurrects you what He is doing is creating another you, ie the 1st copy or clone of you, with your memories and appearance, but it won't be you, you'll have ceased to exist. On the plus side though, under that scenario, no reason why God can't create copies of my loved pets so my clone can enjoy them too!

 

[Astrid]

Re No 2 - Even if we evolved from apes, there is nothing to suggest Jesus wasn't God made into a man. I'm sure God can transform himself into anything He wants (burning bush anyone?). An ape is just a category of zoological distinction, and we are apes, whether created or evolved, just like any 2 models of car are 'cars' even though they are made by separate companies and not evolved.

Many people think its all or nothing, either we evolved or we didn't. However even if evolution is true, (not saying it is or isn't btw) there is nothing to stop God from tweaking that evolution at certain key critical moments to get us, just like someone may trim a hedge etc to get it to have a desired shape.

Nothing to stop God doing anything.
So why assume he lacks the capacity to set
things up to turn out as He likes, right from the
first? You'd having Him tamper and tinker as if he' d
made an old British sports car. : D

 

[Sorn]

Nothing to stop God doing anything.
So why assume he lacks the capacity to set
things up to turn out as He likes, right from the
first? You'd having Him tamper and tinker as if he' d
made an old British sports car. : D

Yes, well, old British sports cars ARE made by God. Look, God can do anything He wants, how He wants, when He wants. If He wants to tinker, He will tinker.

Why did Jesus heal some by laying hands, and others by spitting on mud and putting it in their eyes & others just by a verbal command?? Because He chose to do it that way because He can.

All I was trying to do was show that evolution does not have too exclude God, God can still work with evolution and craft it if that's what He chose to do.

 

[Astrid]

Yes, well, old British sports cars ARE made by God. Look, God can do anything He wants, how He wants, when He wants. If He wants to tinker, He will tinker.

Why did Jesus heal some by laying hands, and others by spitting on mud and putting it in their eyes & others just by a verbal command?? Because He chose to do it that way because He can.

All I was trying to do was show that evolution does not have too exclude God, God can still work with evolution and craft it if that's what He chose to do.

Just seems like a lesser god that would need to.

Not that i believe in any god.

 

[Sorn]

Just seems like a lesser god that would need to.

Not that i believe in any god.

Well it's just speculating on possibilities but in any case I wouldn't necessarily call a being that is eternal and can manipulate processes like evolution to serve it's own ends lesser, its still pretty impressive stuff & a heck of a lot more than what we or anything else we know can do.

 

[renniks]

That's not what I said. How did you get that from God breathing a soul into man?

So you don't think we have a soul that survives our bodily death? So we are no different from the animals then.