Why are some Christians anti Evolution?

[SelfSim]

Actually humans fight against nature.

Ok .. Its a bit hard to fight against something that isn't already exerting pressure though(?)

I'm sure you agree non human creations work in a harmonious manner?

I'm pretty sure I don't understand 'creations' there ..
That aside though, I'll try an illustration: Imagine the atmosphere has been filled with toxic gases close to lethality levels. Its not so easy to agree there'd be much 'harmony' left there, for any life forms(?)

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I'm pretty sure I don't understand 'creations' there ..
That aside though, I'll try an illustration: Imagine the atmosphere has been filled with toxic gases close to lethality levels. Its not so easy to agree there'd be much 'harmony' left there, for any life forms(?)

That's really not an apples to apples comparison. I could say if the moon crashes into the earth harmony will not exist either. They are both mass extinction events and really not what I'm talking about.
The point I am trying to make is all but one form of life on earth work in harmony with nature. Humans do not.

 

[SelfSim]

That's really not an apples to apples comparison. I could say if the moon crashes into the earth harmony will not exist either. They are both mass extinction events and really not what I'm talking about.
The point I am trying to make is all but one form of life on earth work in harmony with nature. Humans do not.

Interesting perspective .. thanks!

 

[NBB]

We are spritual beings, that destroys evolution alone, also God exists and had put that spirit on us, we can get close to God, but people ignore him completely, but he is commanding every man and woman to repent because he pointed a day which he will judge with justice the world, those who believed are going to live forever. But the gospel is crazy stuff for those who are perishing, and those can't understand spiritual things, because you need the spirit of God in you to understand them.

 

[Sorn]

Well, God did create the universe just for us...

But He did, at least this one. And its just us in it until He has dealt with sin and then this universe gets remade and we get access to all the rest of what is in existence that we can not access through or own devices in the time we have.

This is effectively a throw away universe. God will remake it at the appointed time and this universe as vast as it is probably does not even represent 1% of Gods creative power, that will be shown in the new heavens and earth.

 

[Sorn]

Hmmm ...

Member since February 2011, with 4026 posts.

Okay then.

But to answer your OP, I believe evolution is blasphemy for two main reasons:

1. It teaches we are copy errors, made in the image & likeness of God.
2. It teaches we are redeemed by a great ape, who died on the Cross for our sins.

Re No 2 - Even if we evolved from apes, there is nothing to suggest Jesus wasn't God made into a man. I'm sure God can transform himself into anything He wants (burning bush anyone?). An ape is just a category of zoological distinction, and we are apes, whether created or evolved, just like any 2 models of car are 'cars' even though they are made by separate companies and not evolved.

Many people think its all or nothing, either we evolved or we didn't. However even if evolution is true, (not saying it is or isn't btw) there is nothing to stop God from tweaking that evolution at certain key critical moments to get us, just like someone may trim a hedge etc to get it to have a desired shape.

 

[Sorn]

Evolution does not approach the topic of redemption, does not seek to diminish the achievements of people by classifying humans as great apes. It is just a classification, it isn't an insult nor is it any indication that humans are any less than they are.
Evolution does not teach that humans are made in the image and likeness of god.

I don't actually even know what that means "made in the image and likeness of god"
If a god doesn't eat, doesn't reproduce, then a god would have no need for teeth, mouth, digestive system, anus, sex organs. If a god doesn't walk then there is no need for arms or legs.
I understand that the Christian belief has Jesus as a man and a god. But before god was on Earth in physical form, why would the god need teeth, mouth, lungs, heart etc???

"made in the image and likeness of god" - This is probably more about our mental, emotional and psychological makeup than out physical make up. Our level or consciousness and awareness, our ego etc.

 

[Sorn]

Yes, because there's no biblical evidence for animals having souls. And no evidence for animals being our ancestors.

There isn't any evidence that they don't have them either, the bible is silent on that topic because its not primarily a scientific book. Its the story of God's relationship with man and the story of Jesus principally. Like it says in 1 Corinthians 13:12 - wee see only a dim reflection of reality.

 

[Sorn]

Why would animals having souls be an implication of evolutionary theory?

Actually the whole topic of souls is problematic because if souls are needed for a living thing to become living (at least from say a mammal up) then how did that souls get there and when. If animals have souls (i hope they do) then if evolution is true, so did the neanderthals, and all the sub types of humans that existed between our monkey ancestor and us. So if all of them had souls will there be neanderthals in heaven??
If neanderthals didn't have souls but we do then does that mean that at some point God said, right, this is what i want, from now own they get souls??
That whole are of souls, what is consciousness etc is just unknown we can't say anything definitive but if we could there would be implications about a lot of things.

 

[Sorn]

That's really not an apples to apples comparison. I could say if the moon crashes into the earth harmony will not exist either. They are both mass extinction events and really not what I'm talking about.
The point I am trying to make is all but one form of life on earth work in harmony with nature. Humans do not.

Well. more correctly the ecosystem works in harmony, not individual species. Take out the predators of a system and the former prey will reproduce to the point they eat the environment empty and then have mass starvation. They don't get together and say, we have to limit our reproduction or we will run out of food, they strip the landscape. So harmony is imposed on them, not because they work in harmony any more than we do.

 

[stevil]

Genesis clearly states the order of God's creation. Each one keeps within their own designation, type and kind. These are plants, animals/creatures and humans. There is never a crossover and there does not need to be.

This is consistent with the Theory of Evolution.
The kingdoms don't cross over.
A reptile will never evolve to become a human. A plant will never evolve to become a human.
When the bat evolved from its prior mammal form to fly it did not become a bird, it remained as a mammal.
When the whale evolved from its prior mammal form to become aquatic, it didn't stop being a mammal.
A dog will never evolve to become a cat, a cat will never evolve to become a bird, not in a million years, not in 100 million years. The kingdoms don't cross over, according to the theory of evolution.

 

[stevil]

"made in the image and likeness of god" - This is probably more about our mental, emotional and psychological makeup than out physical make up. Our level or consciousness and awareness, our ego etc.

So then it doesn't matter what physical form we have? How our physical form evolved is irrelevant to the Christian story?

 

[Sorn]

So then it doesn't matter what physical form we have? How our physical form evolved is irrelevant to the Christian story?

Don't know but i suspect that our physical form contributes a lot to our mental abilities. So dolphins have bigger brains than us and may be smarter but they don't build things because they don't have opposable thumbs and live in water which may make experimentation and learning very difficult.
So we couldn't just be blobs of jelly either. Out physical form has to support and enable the mental / psychological etc abilities we posses.
A lot of our physical design is also determined by the bio-mechanic forces of a creature of our size. But do we need to have a coccyx bone to have our mental abilities?, probably not so that may well be a pure evolutionary vestige

 

[coffee4u]

I'm not up on Christian beliefs, I understand that Christian is a vast umbrella term and so there are many people within this vast group and these people have differing beliefs.
But, for those Christians that are hell bent on fighting against evolution, what is the root of this resistance?

The main reason is no death before sin. The origin of sin, the result of sin and the answer for sin is part of the gospel.
Romans 5:12-21


Death Through Adam, Life Through Christ
12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned

Then others say well Adam was real but God used evolution.
In this scenario God not only allowed millions of years of death but allowed it to shape his creation and then looked out over his world and called it "very good"?
Yet God calls death his enemy, the last enemy destined for the lake of fire.
There is a very large incongruity there.

Third: Scripture interprets scripture. Special creation is harmonious all through scripture not just Genesis. If God had used evolution he would have told us, there would be some indication that these passages should be read another way.

Forth:The world around us is groaning in corruption.
Romans 8:22
We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.
It is not the key to the past, the world as God created it is gone.
It first changed at the fall then was reshaped greatly at the flood. No one can see or test or measure the created world. So any claims made cannot be proven but take assumptions and measurements from the world as it is now and go backwards.
The world as it is now is nothing like the original in any way.
Add to that we don't know how God created how he may have bent time or made things look old and young and everything in-between, large unknown factors. The only known factor is what scripture says.

It really seems that with their arguments they are just reaching for excuses to shoot down evolution.

Shoot it down hard. It's a tool of the devil.

My thoughts, which could be wrong because of my poor understanding of Christian beliefs. But here they are:
1. Humans are special (god's children, made in god's image) therefore we can't possibly be animals, or apes. Perhaps these people feel uncomfortable about being part of the animal kingdom.

It's got nothing to do with being uncomfortable, we are simply not animals. Animals were made separately because God enjoyed making them and they were also for us to enjoy. We were made on day 6 as body, soul and spirit. God created us to have fellowship with him. No animal has to commune with God only man does. It is our spirit that knows God, it was our spirit that fell and died when Adam sinned. Jesus died so that our spirit might live.

2. All of existence was made as a playground for humans. If humans evolved randomly then it was just chance that we came to be, and then what would be the purpose for the universe existing if humans weren't destined to be? Perhaps these people feel uncomfortable that a universe wasn't destined to have humans, and without humans at the centre of it would be purposeless and therefore goes against the core belief that god created everything for us.

The universe exists because God wanted it too, it gave him pleasure to create it.
But the world was created expressly for his plan to gather people unto himself. He knew mankind would fall, Eden was just a taste of his end plan. God planned to come save us, saw every war and petulance and warned us that we are getting near the end. Once the full number who choose God are in Jesus will return, this world will be burned up by fire and God is going to remake it back to how it was but better.
Revelation 21
21 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.
3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

5 He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new!” Then he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”
7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children.
All of it is for this. For those who chose God to live on the new earth at the end.

Am I on track here? Or are there other reasons?
The ones above seem incredibly self centred.

As I said at the beginning this is really about sin. You may think it's about creation and six days, but that simply comes along with it. God said he created over 6 days. It's the very first thing he said so its the very first thing doubted.
Exodus 20
20 And God spoke all these words:
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
Everything has always been about sin. The greatest of which is the religion of self and selfishness. That is what true Satanism actually is. Doubt and self were the two things Satan used and what he still uses to this day. Doubt Gods word - then doubt God. Because it doesn't satisfy self. Because God isn't who you feel he should be, he doesn't work they way you feel a God should work. Because God calls out our sin and we don't like that. We want to determine truth and coming up with evolution is just another way man says "I know best"
No different to Eve
Genesis 3
6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it.
She saw, she liked, she decided.

I can post videos showing how the fossil record shows catastrophe not evolution but no one on this board cares to look at contradictory evidence to evolution, in fact you all need it desperately because without it you have lost one of the main foundations of your belief in no God. If that's what you want God won't stop you, but you are destined for hell and then the second death. Jesus is there for everyone with a gift of eternal life but it does mean giving up the religion of self.

Now I am sure all the atheists here will have a field day over this post of mine. *waves*
John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

 

[coffee4u]

We are spritual beings, that destroys evolution alone, also God exists and had put that spirit on us, we can get close to God, but people ignore him completely, but he is commanding every man and woman to repent because he pointed a day which he will judge with justice the world, those who believed are going to live forever. But the gospel is crazy stuff for those who are perishing, and those can't understand spiritual things, because you need the spirit of God in you to understand them.

True
1 Corinthians
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

1 Corinthians 2:14
The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

And we can't do anything about that only they can.

 

[stevil]

Don't know but i suspect that our physical form contributes a lot to our mental abilities. So dolphins have bigger brains than us and may be smarter but they don't build things because they don't have opposable thumbs and live in water which may make experimentation and learning very difficult.
So we couldn't just be blobs of jelly either. Out physical form has to support and enable the mental / psychological etc abilities we posses.
A lot of our physical design is also determined by the bio-mechanic forces of a creature of our size. But do we need to have a coccyx bone to have our mental abilities?, probably not so that may well be a pure evolutionary vestige

I am trying to work out an approach that could satisfy a Christian religious belief and ToE.
I agree with you that our physical form has a major impact on our mental capacity, our behaviours etc. In fact as an atheist, I don't consider our mental capacity to be anything different from a manifestation of our physiology.

BUT, going with the Christian position (of which I know very little), wouldn't it be possible that the god chooses a species (any species) at a time when it has evolved sufficiently to be able to host such an "image". And so, maybe evolution was directionless, merely adapting to changing environments but not seeking a specific form as a goal, and when the patient and timeless god thought the form was sufficient, then the god "created" the human soul????

 

[Sorn]

I am trying to work out an approach that could satisfy a Christian religious belief and ToE.
I agree with you that our physical form has a major impact on our mental capacity, our behaviours etc. In fact as an atheist, I don't consider our mental capacity to be anything different from a manifestation of our physiology.

BUT, going with the Christian position (of which I know very little), wouldn't it be possible that the god chooses a species (any species) at a time when it has evolved sufficiently to be able to host such an "image". And so, maybe evolution was directionless, merely adapting to changing environments but not seeking a specific form as a goal, and when the patient and timeless god thought the form was sufficient, then the god "created" the human soul????

Yes, the position you state in the 2nd paragraph is possible, not sure if it makes a difference though.
The Bible says that the trinity said 'Let us make one like us' so that means God wanted this to happen.

Now if you want something to happen and you have the means to make it happen you usually go out and actively work to bring it about rather than wait for things, that you could influence, to line up on their own accord.
We aren't told anything about timelines, or whether God waited or acted etc. After all, as you say, creating the human soul is an action in itself so why wouldn't God also take the action to tweak an evolutionary process to bring about a physical form that was suitable to what He wanted?

 

[trophy33]

I'm not up on Christian beliefs, I understand that Christian is a vast umbrella term and so there are many people within this vast group and these people have differing beliefs.
But, for those Christians that are hell bent on fighting against evolution, what is the root of this resistance?

It really seems that with their arguments they are just reaching for excuses to shoot down evolution.

My thoughts, which could be wrong because of my poor understanding of Christian beliefs. But here they are:
1. Humans are special (god's children, made in god's image) therefore we can't possibly be animals, or apes. Perhaps these people feel uncomfortable about being part of the animal kingdom.
2. All of existence was made as a playground for humans. If humans evolved randomly then it was just chance that we came to be, and then what would be the purpose for the universe existing if humans weren't destined to be? Perhaps these people feel uncomfortable that a universe wasn't destined to have humans, and without humans at the centre of it would be purposeless and therefore goes against the core belief that god created everything for us.

Am I on track here? Or are there other reasons?
The ones above seem incredibly self centred.

I would say its a specific doctrine some hold to - that the Bible was inspired in a way of a dictation, ie every word in it is from God, from the perspective of God and without any possible error.

They eliminate the human authors to be a mere machines for writing it down. They (partly willfully) ignore the cultural background, habits and thinking of the authors.

Its also frequently combined with extreme literallism.

 

[stevil]

in fact you all need it desperately because without it you have lost one of the main foundations of your belief in no God.

My lack of belief in gods has nothing to do with the Theory of Evolution. It isn't a foundation of my worldview.
If you were able to disprove Evolution, as interesting as that would be, it wouldn't cause me to believe in gods.

 

[stevil]

Now if you want something to happen and you have the means to make it happen you usually go out and actively work to bring it about rather than wait for things

If I was timeless, then I would persist throughout all time. I would never have to wait, I would merely shift my consciousness (in an instant) to the point in time that I felt was interesting.

After all, as you say, creating the human soul is an action in itself so why wouldn't God also take the action to tweak an evolutionary process to bring about a physical form that was suitable to what He wanted?

The god might have, but didn't need to.
If the god did, then great, if the god didn't, then great too. Neither approach seems to be a challenge to the god story.