THE RULE OF FAITH AND PRACTICE IS ALWAYS SCRIPTURE "ALONE" 2

[LoveGodsWord]

Yes - God is in control of His Word.
That is why mainstream translations translate Hebrews 4:9 as 'Sabbath Rest' and not 'Sabbath Keeping'

Carl. Have you considered that perhaps you simply do not understand the Greek of Hebrews 4:9 and the meaning of Sabbath resting and Sabbath keeping which are the same thing? The Greek word σαββατισμός (sabbatismós | G4520) used in Hebrews 4:9 means Sabbath keeping or Sabbath resting. These are not separate from each other. We keep the Sabbath by resting on the Sabbath. Therefore keeping the Sabbath is resting on the Sabbath. Sabbath resting is Sabbath keeping and what it means to keep the Sabbath (see Exodus 20:8-11). We keep the Sabbath by resting on the Sabbath. This was already proven to you in another thread that you did not want to talk about for whatever reason.

So whether you use the Aramaic translations of Hebrews 4:9

• Aramaic Bible So then, it remains for the people of God to keep the Sabbath.
• Lamsa Bible Hebrews 4:9 It is therefore the duty of the people of God to keep the Sabbath.

Or the majority of Greek translations that say of Hebrews 4:9 that say...

• New International Version
  There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;
• English Standard Version
  So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God,
• Berean Study Bible
  There remains, then, a Sabbath rest for the people of God.
• Berean Literal Bible
  So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.
• New American Standard Bible
  Consequently, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.
• NASB 1995
  So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.
• NASB 1977
  There remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

(Most translation of Hebrews 4:9 is there remains (left behind) a Sabbath rest for the people of God; The Aramaic and Greek language interpretations were shown for contrasting the meaning of σαββατισμός to show keeping the Sabbath is the same as Resting on the Sabbath and that we keep the Sabbath by resting on the Sabbath)

It makes no difference to what has been shared with you Carl as Sabbath keeping is the same meaning as Sabbath resting because we keep the Sabbath by resting on the Sabbath.

The various Greek dictionaries and Interlinears and Lexicons all show what I am sharing here with you is true. See below.

GREEK INTERLINEAR
HEBREWS 4:9 άρα (Then) απολείπεται (there is left) σαββατισμός (a Sabbath keeping) τω (to the) λαώ (people) του θεού (of God)

GREEK LEXICON OF THE NEW TESTAMENT, Abbott-Smith - G4520
*† σαββατισμός, - οῦ, ὁ(< σαββατίζω, to keep the sabbath, Exod 16:30, al.),
a keeping sabbath, a sabbath rest: metaph., as in Mishna (Zorell, s.v.), Heb 4:9.†

LIDDEL/SCOTT/JONES GREEK-ENGLISH LEXICON - G4520
σαββατισμός Σαββᾰτ-ισμός, ὁ, a keeping of days of rest, Ep. Heb 4:9, cf. Plu. 2.166a (codd., βαπτισμούς Bentley).

STRONGS Greek 4520: A keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest. From a derivative of sabbaton; a 'sabbatism', i.e. the repose of Christianity. for the τῷ (tō) Article - Dative Masculine Singular Strong's Greek 3588: The, the definite article. Including the feminine he, and the neuter to in all their inflections; the definite article; the. people λαῷ (laō) Noun - Dative Masculine Singular Strong's Greek 2992: Apparently a primary word; a people of God. Θεοῦ (Theou) Noun - Genitive Masculine Singular Strong's Greek 2316: A deity, especially the supreme Divinity; figuratively, a magistrate; by Hebraism, very.

STRONGS CONCORDENCE
sabbatismos: a sabbath rest Definition: a sabbath rest Usage (DOING): a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.

GREEK-ENGLISH LEXICON OF THE NEW TESTAMENT. THAYER - G4520
G4520 — σαββατισμός σαββατισμου, ὁ (σαββατίζω to keep the sabbath);

W. E. VINE, GREEK DICTIONARY
Sabbath rest (4520) (sabbatismos from sabbatízo = keep the Sabbath) literally means a keeping of a sabbath or a keeping of days of rest. (Note the rest of Vines comments is not the Greek it is his opinion)

Be blessed and receive God's Word

Take Care Carl.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I read this often from protestants. I have yet to have someone show where the Bible says this. And please, don't paste a page and a half of phsyco babble. Just post a scripture verse.

Here you go...

2 Timothy 3:16 [16], All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

Jesus warns us about following man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God here when he says...

Matthew 15:3-9 [3], But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? [4], For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. [5], But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; [6], And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. [7], Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, [8], This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. [9], But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

There is nothing wrong with tradition if it is supported by the scriptures and leading us to believe and follow what Gods' Word says because the scriptures are are the only rule of faith as to what is true and what is not true. What makes man-made teachings and traditions bad is when they lead us away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God according to Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9.

Now let me ask you a question that might be helpful for you to think about. You do not need to answer it here if you do not want to. If the scriptures teach us that "faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God" (Romans 10:17) and we are saved by God's grace through faith that comes from Gods' Word (Ephesians 2:8-9) and again whatsoever is not of faith is sin according to Gods' Word (Romans 14:23) and again without faith that comes from Gods' Word it is impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6) how can we have Gods' salvation and how can the scriptures not be the only rule of faith when our faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God?

Therefore to me the scriptures are the only rule and test of genuine faith because genuine faith only comes from Gods' Word *Romans 10:17.

Take Care.

 

[concretecamper]

Here you go...

2 Timothy 3:16 [16], All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

Jesus warns us about following man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God here when he says...

Matthew 15:3-9 [3], But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? [4], For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. [5], But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; [6], And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. [7], Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, [8], This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. [9], But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

There is nothing wrong with tradition if it is supported by the scriptures and leading us to believe and follow what Gods' Word says because the scriptures are are the only rule of faith as to what is true and what is not true. What makes man-made teachings and traditions bad is when they lead us away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God according to Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9.

Now let me ask you a question that might be helpful for you to think about. You do not need to answer it here if you do not want to. If the scriptures teach us that "faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God" (Romans 10:17) and we are saved by God's grace through faith that comes from Gods' Word (Ephesians 2:8-9) and again whatsoever is not of faith is sin according to Gods' Word (Romans 14:23) and again without faith that comes from Gods' Word it is impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6) how can we have Gods' salvation and how can the scriptures not be the only rule of faith when our faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God?

Therefore to me the scriptures are the only rule and test of genuine faith because genuine faith only comes from Gods' Word *Romans 10:17.

Take Care.

thank you for being like ALL the other who have failed to prove we are to follow ONLY scripture.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Carl. Have you considered that perhaps you simply do not understand the Greek of Hebrews 4:9 and the meaning of Sabbath resting and Sabbath keeping which are the same thing? The Greek word σαββατισμός (sabbatismós | G4520) used in Hebrews 4:9 means Sabbath keeping or Sabbath resting. These are not separate from each other. We keep the Sabbath by resting on the Sabbath. Therefore keeping the Sabbath is resting on the Sabbath. Sabbath resting is Sabbath keeping and what it means to keep the Sabbath (see Exodus 20:8-11). We keep the Sabbath by resting on the Sabbath. This was already proven to you in another thread that you did not want to talk about for whatever reason.

So whether you use the Aramaic translations of Hebrews 4:9

• Aramaic Bible So then, it remains for the people of God to keep the Sabbath.
• Lamsa Bible Hebrews 4:9 It is therefore the duty of the people of God to keep the Sabbath.

Or the majority of Greek translations that say of Hebrews 4:9 that say...

• New International Version
  There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;
• English Standard Version
  So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God,
• Berean Study Bible
  There remains, then, a Sabbath rest for the people of God.
• Berean Literal Bible
  So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.
• New American Standard Bible
  Consequently, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.
• NASB 1995
  So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.
• NASB 1977
  There remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

(Most translation of Hebrews 4:9 is there remains (left behind) a Sabbath rest for the people of God; The Aramaic and Greek language interpretations were shown for contrasting the meaning of σαββατισμός to show keeping the Sabbath is the same as Resting on the Sabbath and that we keep the Sabbath by resting on the Sabbath)

It makes no difference to what has been shared with you Carl as Sabbath keeping is the same meaning as Sabbath resting because we keep the Sabbath by resting on the Sabbath.

The various Greek dictionaries and Interlinears and Lexicons all show what I am sharing here with you is true. See below.

GREEK INTERLINEAR
HEBREWS 4:9 άρα (Then) απολείπεται (there is left) σαββατισμός (a Sabbath keeping) τω (to the) λαώ (people) του θεού (of God)

GREEK LEXICON OF THE NEW TESTAMENT, Abbott-Smith - G4520
*† σαββατισμός, - οῦ, ὁ(< σαββατίζω, to keep the sabbath, Exod 16:30, al.),
a keeping sabbath, a sabbath rest: metaph., as in Mishna (Zorell, s.v.), Heb 4:9.†

LIDDEL/SCOTT/JONES GREEK-ENGLISH LEXICON - G4520
σαββατισμός Σαββᾰτ-ισμός, ὁ, a keeping of days of rest, Ep. Heb 4:9, cf. Plu. 2.166a (codd., βαπτισμούς Bentley).

STRONGS Greek 4520: A keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest. From a derivative of sabbaton; a 'sabbatism', i.e. the repose of Christianity. for the τῷ (tō) Article - Dative Masculine Singular Strong's Greek 3588: The, the definite article. Including the feminine he, and the neuter to in all their inflections; the definite article; the. people λαῷ (laō) Noun - Dative Masculine Singular Strong's Greek 2992: Apparently a primary word; a people of God. Θεοῦ (Theou) Noun - Genitive Masculine Singular Strong's Greek 2316: A deity, especially the supreme Divinity; figuratively, a magistrate; by Hebraism, very.

STRONGS CONCORDENCE
sabbatismos: a sabbath rest Definition: a sabbath rest Usage (DOING): a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.

GREEK-ENGLISH LEXICON OF THE NEW TESTAMENT. THAYER - G4520
G4520 — σαββατισμός σαββατισμου, ὁ (σαββατίζω to keep the sabbath);

W. E. VINE, GREEK DICTIONARY
Sabbath rest (4520) (sabbatismos from sabbatízo = keep the Sabbath) literally means a keeping of a sabbath or a keeping of days of rest. (Note the rest of Vines comments is not the Greek it is his opinion)

Be blessed and receive God's Word

Take Care Carl.

You missed my point entirely.

If God is in control of His Word, how come the vast majority of English translations are in your opinion wrong in translating Heb 4:9 as 'Sabbath Rest'

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You missed my point entirely.

If God is in control of His Word, how come the vast majority of English translations are in your opinion wrong in translating Heb 4:9 as 'Sabbath Rest'

I have not missed anything Carl. I believe you have a misunderstanding of what was shared with you in post # 101 linked. Go read it again. It is saying that there is no contradiction and God is in control of His Word because keeping the Sabbath is the same as resting on the Sabbath. That is the meaning of σαββατισμός (sabbatismós | G4520) used in Hebrews 4:9. We keep the Sabbath holy by resting on it (Exodus 20:8-11). They are exactly the same thing expressed in different ways as shown in Aramaic and Greek texts.

Take Care.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

thank you for being like ALL the other who have failed to prove we are to follow ONLY scripture.

I see you did not answer the question asked you and simply ignored the scriptures shared in the post you are quoting from. Of course you are free to believe as you wish that is between you and God. Let's agree to disagree on your claim here.

Take Care.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Well I think you missed the point of post # 101 linked and also have a misunderstanding of what I have said Carl. Go read it again. It is saying that there is no contradiction and God is in control of His Word because keeping the Sabbath is the same as resting on the Sabbath. We keep the Sabbath holy by resting on it (Exodus 20:8-11). They are exactly the same thing expressed in different ways as shown in Aramaic and Greek.

Take Care.

Your choice of the word 'Keeping' changes the meaning of the message entirely and leans on little known translations.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Your choice of the word 'Keeping' changes the meaning of the message entirely and leans on little known translations.

No it doesn't.

Q. How do you keep the Sabbath?
A. By resting on the Sabbath! (Exodus 20:8-11)

Resting on the Sabbath = Keeping the Sabbath

Q. What is the meaning of the Greek word σαββατισμός (sabbatismós | G4520) used in Hebrews 4:9?
A. Keeping the Sabbath; Resting on the Sabbath (proof provided here) linked

Resting on the Sabbath = Keeping the Sabbath

There is no contradiction here Carl. We keep the Sabbath by resting on the Sabbath. Resting on the Sabbath is how we keep the Sabbath. Resting on the Sabbath is keeping the Sabbath according to the commandment in # Exodus 20:8-11.

Please re-read post # 101 linked.

Take Care Carl

 

[Carl Emerson]

That is your opinion to bolster the theory of Sabbath Keeping in the New Covenant.
Almost every modern english translation does not use the work 'keeping' for this reason as it would give the false impression that we are still bound by the Law rather than resting in His finished work.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

That is your opinion to bolster the theory of Sabbath Keeping in the New Covenant.
Almost every modern english translation does not use the work 'keeping' for this reason as it would give the false impression that we are still bound by the Law rather than resting in His finished work.

I have not provided an opinion Carl. I have only provided scripture. Of course you are free to believe as you wish as that is between you and God. I prefer what the scriptures teach as shown in post # 101; post # 105 and post # 108 linked that you refuse to discuss with me. So I guess we will agree to disagree.

Take Care Carl.

 

[concretecamper]

I see you did not answer the question asked you and simply ignored the scriptures shared in the post you are quoting

what question would you like me to answer?

. Of course you are free to believe as you wish that is between you and God. Let's agree to disagree on your claim here.

in other words, I cant defend my position so let's move on.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

what question would you like me to answer? in other words, I cant defend my position so let's move on.

I respectfully disagree. I think it is you who cannot defend your position which is why you ignored the content, scriptures and questions provided to you in post #102 linked. Anyhow of course you are free to believe as you wish. That was never in dispute. So I guess we will agree to disagree. For me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them because God's Word (the scriptures) are the only rule of faith because they are the origin of where faith comes from according to Romans 10:17.

Take Care.

 

[concretecamper]

I respectfully disagree. I think it is you who cannot defend your position which is why you ignored the content, scriptures and questions provided to you in post #102 linked. Anyhow of course you are free to believe as you wish. That was never in dispute. So I guess we will agree to disagree.

Take Care.

too funny. I never defined my position but YOU DID. It would be better if you just cried Uncle.

Btw, what question of yours did I fail to answer, bring it on

 

[Carl Emerson]

I have not provided an opinion Carl. I have only provided scripture. Of course you are free to believe as you wish as that is between you and God. I prefer what the scriptures teach as shown in post # 101; post # 105 and post # 108 linked that you refuse to discuss with me. So I guess we will agree to disagree.

Take Care Carl.

You have provided an opinion and your choice of obscure translations proves it.

If God watches over His Word (which He does) He wont allow it to be tucked away in some obscure translation. He will make sure it is there in mainstream translations for all to see.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You have provided an opinion and your choice of obscure translations proves it. If God watches over His Word (which He does) He wont allow it to be tucked away in some obscure translation. He will make sure it is there in mainstream translations for all to see.

No, I provided the Greek meaning of σαββατισμός (sabbatismós | G4520) used in Hebrews 4:9
which literally means sabbath keeping by sabbath resting. We keep the Sabbath by resting on the Sabbath. Sabbath keeping is not separate from Sabbath resting they are the same thing. We keep the Sabbath by resting on the Sabbath. If we rest on the Sabbath we are keeping the Sabbath holy according to Exodus 20:8-11. I can see you want to make the argument about something else because the literal Greek does not agree with you but both translation in Greek whether "Sabbath rest" or "Keeping the Sabbath" are both in agreement with what I have been sharing with you. I am not sure why you cannot understand this. Perhaps you can try re-reading post # 101; post # 105 and post # 108 linked that you refuse to discuss with me. Anyhow believe whatever you wish Carl that is between you and God. We can agree to disagree.

Take Care

 

[LoveGodsWord]

too funny. I never defined my position but YOU DID. It would be better if you just cried Uncle. Btw, what question of yours did I fail to answer, bring it on

Why would you assume I do not know your position when I know your Catholic and I know your teachings? Nice responses by the way for not answering or addressing anything in the posts you are quoting from that disagree with you. Say whatever you wish, but post #102 linked that you refuse to discuss with me testifies differently to what your claiming here. Anyhow we can agree to disagree dear friend as I am only here for a friendly discussion. If you need to ask me what question did I asked you, it only show me you did not read it in post #102 linked.

Take Care.

 

[concretecamper]

Now let me ask you a question that might be helpful for you to think about. You do not need to answer it here if you do not want to. If the scriptures teach us that "faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God" (Romans 10:17) and we are saved by God's grace through faith that comes from Gods' Word (Ephesians 2:8-9) and again whatsoever is not of faith is sin according to Gods' Word (Romans 14:23) and again without faith that comes from Gods' Word it is impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6) how can we have Gods' salvation and how can the scriptures not be the only rule of faith when our faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God?

because the complete revelation of God is not contained in the Bible. YOU may assume it is. But that's all you can do is assume. Me, I'll follow the command of Jesus and follow the Church.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

because the complete revelation of God is not contained in the Bible. YOU may assume it is. But that's all you can do is assume. Me, I'll follow the command of Jesus and follow the Church.

Well that does not answer the question asked of you in post #102 linked now does it. Do you want to answer the question I asked of you there now? You making an assumption that the scripture do not reveal God to mankind. If it was not for the scriptures no one would know God. Therefore the scriptures are the Revelation of Jesus Christ as Gods' Savior for all mankind. The scriptures are our road map to lead us to God. "The faith" are the teachings of Gods' Word that God's people (the Church) believe and follow. If the Church chooses to follow man-made teachings and traditions that disregard Gods Word to break the commandments of God who will you then choose to follow; Jesus (God) or man? (see Matthew 15:3-9; Acts of the Apostles 5:29).

 

[timothyu]

the complete revelation of God is not contained in the Bible.

All we need to know is in scripture. We certainly do not need another government of man to control us when the whole purpose of the Gospel of the Kingdom as Jesus taught (and is in scripture)is to set us free from the governance of fellow man.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

because the complete revelation of God is not contained in the Bible.

Let me ask you the question again and please consider the question and your answer carefully this time before posting. If the scriptures teach us that "faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God" (Romans 10:17) and we are saved by God's grace through faith that comes from Gods' Word (Ephesians 2:8-9) and again whatsoever is not of faith is sin according to Gods' Word (Romans 14:23) and again without faith that comes from Gods' Word it is impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6) how can we have Gods' salvation and how can the scriptures not be the only rule of faith when our faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God?