THE RULE OF FAITH AND PRACTICE IS ALWAYS SCRIPTURE "ALONE" 2

[pescador]

All we need to know is in scripture. We certainly do not need another government of man to control us when the whole purpose of the Gospel of the Kingdom as Jesus taught (and is in scripture)is to set us free from the governance of fellow man.

Except that is in contradiction to what the Bible clearly says...

Romans 13:1-5, "Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except by God’s appointment, and the authorities that exist have been instituted by God. So the person who resists such authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will incur judgment (for rulers cause no fear for good conduct but for bad). Do you desire not to fear authority? Do good and you will receive its commendation because it is God’s servant for your well-being. But be afraid if you do wrong because government does not bear the sword for nothing. It is God’s servant to administer punishment on the person who does wrong. Therefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of the wrath of the authorities but also because of your conscience."

 

[concretecamper]

You making an assumption that the scripture do not reveal God to mankind

I made no such assumption. IF I did, show me where

Therefore the scriptures are the Revelation of Jesus Christ as Gods' Savior for all mankind

Scripture reveals God yes. So does His Church. His Church was revealing God hundreds of years before the Bible was canonized.

If the Church chooses to follow man-made teachings and traditions that disregard Gods Word to break the commandments of God who will you then choose to follow; Jesus (God) or man?

precisely why I follow the Catholic Church. All the other bend to the whim of man.

All we need to know is in scripture

your idea, but certainly that idea isn't taught by scripture. Jesus commands us to listen to the Church. You can do what you want. But PLEASE don't tell me that you follow what scripture teaches.

 

[concretecamper]

Let me ask you the question again and please consider the question and your answer carefully this time before posting

I always give my answers careful consideration. Why would you assume otherwise?

how can we have Gods' salvation and how can the scriptures not be the only rule of faith when our faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God?

because scripture tells us explicitly that the Church is the authority. Jesus Himself tells us to listen to the Church.

Do you see how you are in error by compressing the entirety of God's Word to a book? The Bible is only part of God's revelation. This fact has been taught since the foundation of the Church.

 

[timothyu]

Except that is in contradiction to what the Bible clearly says...

Well my saviour is Jesus and what He basically taught was not to rebel against governments of man like the Zealots did, but to love all as self and act accordingly, with both friend and foe. Stay under the radar. Use the Red Cross as an example. Both sides in time of war benefitted and neither sought to harm them as their platform once upon a time was not financial, but to love all as self. The fact Jesus did rebel against synagogue leaders and not Rome tells you something right there about which governance of man we should be concerned with. Let those of the world do their thing and have their system. Their time of judgement will come soon. Use discernment with those who claim to represent God. God's governance in no way resembles the governments of man and that directly applies to church leaders regardless of status.

 

[timothyu]

because scripture tells us explicitly that the Church is the authority. Jesus Himself tells us to listen to the Church.

The teachings by God in scripture are the authourity. Churches are merely collections of people following those teachings as a way of life, helping each other instead of themselves, not building upon the foundations of the governments of man. God expects allegiance in that we follow His will and love all as self. Institutions demand allegiance in order to grow and thrive in the way of the flesh, building their business on what God said was a natural way of life, free of all governance except for His own.

 

[concretecamper]

The teachings by God in scripture are the authourity.

this idea isn't taught by scripture. If it is please show me where.

Churches are merely collections of people following those teachings as a way of life, helping each other instead of themselves

according to Jesus, His Church is our Authority. According to Jesus His Church is our teacher and we should listen. Your Community may be as you describe, but don't lump His Church into that description.

God expects allegiance in that we follow His will and love all as self

and love of God.

 

[timothyu]

this idea isn't taught by scripture. If it is please show me where.

John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

Luke 8:21 And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.

according to Jesus, His Church is our Authority. According to Jesus His Church is our teacher and we should listen. Your Community may be as you describe, but don't lump His Church into that description.

You seem to have missed the concept that church is the people, not a hierarchy of power in an institution that resembles all institutions of man.

and love of God.

Love of God is simply putting His will before our own, thus loving all as self, NOT building more hierarchies and institutions that resemble those built upon the will of man.

 

[concretecamper]

John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

Luke 8:21 And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it

I fail to find "scripture" or "bible" in any of these 2 quotes. Wanna try again?

You seem to have missed the concept that church is the people, not a hierarchy of power in an institution that resembles all institutions of man.

Christ gave us an authoritative Church (I've already provided scriptural back up for this in my earlier posts). If you don't like it, take it up with Him.

Love of God is simply putting His will before our own

agreed

NOT building more hierarchies and institutions that resemble those built upon the will of man.

like the communities born out of the protestant phenomena?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I made no such assumption. IF I did, show me where
Scripture reveals God yes. So does His Church. His Church was revealing God hundreds of years before the Bible was canonized.
precisely why I follow the Catholic Church. All the other bend to the whim of man.
your idea, but certainly that idea isn't taught by scripture. Jesus commands us to listen to the Church. You can do what you want. But PLEASE don't tell me that you follow what scripture teaches.

If you do not want to answer the question asked of you just say so as you do not have to if you do not want to. Here let me answer it for you if it will be helpful to the discussion.

The question was...

Q. "If the scriptures teach us that "faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God" (Romans 10:17) and we are saved by God's grace through faith that comes from Gods' Word (Ephesians 2:8-9) and again whatsoever is not of faith is sin according to Gods' Word (Romans 14:23) and again without faith that comes from Gods' Word it is impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6) how can we have Gods' salvation and how can the scriptures not be the only rule of faith when our faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God?"

Here is the answer to my question here...

A. The answer is in the scriptures already provided. If the scriptures teach us that "faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God" (Romans 10:17) and we are saved by God's grace through faith that comes from Gods' Word (Ephesians 2:8-9) and again whatsoever is not of faith is sin according to Gods' Word (Romans 14:23) and again without faith that comes from Gods' Word it is impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6) then faith that only comes from the Word of God is the only rule of faith because the Word of God is the origin of where our faith comes from that saves us!

................

God's Church is defined in the scriptures as all those who believe and follow what Gods' Word says. They all believe Gods' Word which is "the Faith". They (the Church) all having faith in what Gods' Word says believe and follow the scriptures because the Word of God is the origin of their faith and the only rule to what faith is. So according to the scriptures, the Word of God is the only rule of faith because that is where faith comes from *Romans 10:17. I believe it is your understanding of what you think "the Church" is here that is the problem. God's true Church according to the scriptures are simply all those who by faith that comes from God's Word believe and follow what Gods' Word says (Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12: Revelation 22:14). Therefore according to the scriptures "the visible Church on earth" is only our authority as it is believing and following what Gods' Word says which is the only rule of faith. This is why Peter and John when told not to speak the Word of God by the Church of their day (Israel) said to the Church leaders in Acts of the Apostles 5:29 [29], Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men. They followed Gods' Word as the only rule of faith over the teachings and traditions of men that told them not to follow Gods' Word.

.................

I asked you another question earlier and that was, if a Church denomination organization chooses to follow man-made teachings and traditions that disregard Gods Word leading us to break the commandments of God and disregard the very words of Jesus and what Gods 'Word says are they in the faith or outside of the faith (Gods' Word) and who should we then choose to believe and follow; Jesus (God) or man? (see Matthew 15:3-9; Acts of the Apostles 5:29).


Take Care.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Well my saviour is Jesus and what He basically taught was not to rebel against governments of man like the Zealots did, but to love all as self and act accordingly, with both friend and foe. Stay under the radar. Use the Red Cross as an example. Both sides in time of war benefitted and neither sought to harm them as their platform once upon a time was not financial, but to love all as self. The fact Jesus did rebel against synagogue leaders and not Rome tells you something right there about which governance of man we should be concerned with. Let those of the world do their thing and have their system. Their time of judgement will come soon. Use discernment with those who claim to represent God. God's governance in no way resembles the governments of man and that directly applies to church leaders regardless of status.

In regards to the things of God the scriptures teach us that we ought to obey God (Gods' Word) rather than man when the Church goes against what Gods' Word says (Acts of the Apostles 5:29. Therefore the scriptures are the only rule of faith because our faith comes from God's Word as shown in Romans 10:17. Good post

God bless.

 

[timothyu]

I fail to find "scripture" or "bible" in any of these 2 quotes. Wanna try again?

Looking for trees when the forest is in front of you. They are scripture, they are in the Bible.

Christ gave us an authoritative Church

What He gave us was God's truth which was the foundation his church would be built upon. People following and living His truth. Jesus came and lived as the lowest of the low yet was the greatest power in earth. Institutions should take that as a hint they are not to build themselves in the image of the powerful institutions of man, let alone align with them for 1700 years, whoring themselves to the kingdoms of the Adversary and man rather than representing the Kingdom of God..

like the communities born out of the protestant phenomena?

Exactly.. ALL institutions within Christianity. They were born out of pre-protestant institutions which were born out of traditional institutions of man. As Christianity evolved the blind have done a great job of teaching the blind to follow the wrong path in like manner.

 

[concretecamper]

Looking for trees when the forest is in front of you. They are scripture, they are in the Bible.

yes. Our friend is clinging to the idea that the entirety of God's Word is contained in scripture. I'm just leading him one step at a time so he sees his error.

What He gave us was God's truth which was the foundation his church would be built upon. People following and living His truth. Jesus came and lived as the lowest of the low yet was the greatest power in earth. Institutions should take that as a hint they are not to build themselves in the image of the powerful instructions of man.

ok, but all this you wrote still doesnt negate that Jesus have us an authoritative Church. Your beef ain't with me, it is with scripture.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

ok, but all this you wrote still doesnt negate that Jesus have us an authoritative Church. Your beef ain't with me, it is with scripture.

See the scriptures posted in post # 129 linked that does.

 

[timothyu]

ok, but all this you wrote still doesnt negate that Jesus have us an authoritative Church.

You will have to prove that as all I see is man building an authoritative church in our own image, contrary to what Jesus taught the church should be, a way of life built upon the will of the Father. His will was not to build yet another government of power over man, cashing in servitude for authoritative power. Take away the robes and all one sees is just another government of man, run in the same ways, subject to the same politics and desire for power and status.

 

[concretecamper]

See the scriptures posted in post # 129 linked that does.

round and round the mulberry bush.......

 

[LoveGodsWord]

round and round the mulberry bush.......

As posted earlier you do not need to respond to my posts or answer the questions asked of you dear friend that is up to you. Perhaps you can pray about it.

Take Care.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Post # 129 linked is worth a read as it demonstrates why scripture is the only rule of faith.

God bless

 

[ViaCrucis]

.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

So if scripture is not the only rule of faith would anyone else like to have a go at the same question?

"If the scriptures teach us that "faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God" (Romans 10:17) and we are saved by God's grace through faith that comes from Gods' Word (Ephesians 2:8-9) and again whatsoever is not of faith is sin according to Gods' Word (Romans 14:23) and again without faith that comes from Gods' Word it is impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6) how can we have Gods' salvation and how can the scriptures not be the only rule of faith when our faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God?"

God bless.

 

[timothyu]

Don't forget many use God and scriptures but their reasoning and portrayal is often in service of self rather than in servitude to others.