@Leaf473 here is a response to the
misinformation provided to you earlier.
So let me start with where the two systems agree. Both see the sanctuary as being, for lack of a better term, contaminated by the sins of the Israelites. But the timing and means of that contamination differ in the two views. As I spelled out to you in response to your earlier question my view is that sin contaminates by its presence. Hence the sanctuary is stated to need cleansing because it dwells in the midst of the sins and uncleanness of the Israelites. And we see Scriptures that describe abominations committed defiling the sanctuary, etc. So in my view contamination happens when the sin is committed, because the sanctuary is in the midst of the sinful people. Their sin or uncleanness is upon them. They "bear" their sin as the text says. The sin offering is then the solution to this contamination, making atonement, or paying the price of the sin, cleansing it with the blood.
In LGW's view the means of sin getting to the sanctuary is the sin offering. In other words, he sees the sin offering making atonement by transferring the sin from the sin offering to the sanctuary, as a sort of holding tank. Thereby it separates the person from the sin. But then the sins of the people throughout the year which are transferred to the sanctuary wait until the Day of Atonement for all the sins to be removed from the sanctuary, placed on the high priest, and then placed on the scapegoat. So yes, a key difference is what we see the blood of the sin offering doing. I see it as cleansing already present defilement from the person, and the sanctuary. He sees it as transferring the defilement to the sanctuary for later cleansing.
I believe you are misrepresenting what I have posted to you here despite me telling you exactly in earlier posts what I believe our main differences are. Firstly, no. As posted earlier to you I believe in context to the scriptures already shared with you that the cleansing of the Sanctuary and the yearly atonement as shown through the scriptures in Leviticus 16 that the
sins of God's people that are brought into the Sanctuary for blood atonement is the reason why the Sanctuary needs cleansing. It is sin that causes uncleanness and defilement of the Sanctuary. According to the scriptures, it is because of the sins of Gods' people that have been brought into the presence of God in the Sanctuary that the sanctuary is cleansed on the great day of atonement (Leviticus 16).
This ministration of the Priesthood is different to that of the daily ministration and atonement for sin. As shown through the scriptures already this includes the cleansing of all apartments of the Sanctuary from the most holy place, the holy place and the courtyard. This ministration also includes the final atonement for the collective sins of Gods' people through "the Lords goat" before the final work of removal of all sin from Gods' presence which according to the scriptures is transferred to the scapegoat which is then taken out by a strong man into the wilderness. As pointed out to you many times now I believe our main area of difference is in the understanding of the ministration of the High Priest and what his work is on the great day of atonement and the ministration of the Priesthood between the daily and yearly removal of sin from the presence of God. Your trying to disregard the yearly ministration of the Great high priests work in the cleansing of the Sanctuary on the great day of atonement. This is where the main area of difference is.
Now the place where we both see there is transfer is from the person to the sin offering, when the hands are laid on it. So we both see sin being placed on the offering. And this is in line with Jesus bearing our sins. But my view is that the sin offering is a picture of the atonement of Jesus, and that the death of the offering pays the price of that sin, and then the blood, which is holy, makes atonement and cleansing. It does not carry the contagion of sin into the sanctuary, because it represents Jesus, and His blood shed for us, which does not carry sin, but cleanses sin by His death.
Let's look at this in some detail. You agree with me that all sin offerings for God's people were to be made inside the Sanctuary as shown already though the scriptures in
Leviticus 4:5-7; 18;
Leviticus 4:27-35;
Numbers 15;
Leviticus 6:24-30. In the daily ministration of the Priesthood the sinner was to bring a sin offering to the Sanctuary and inside the Sanctuary you agree that the sinner transferred their sin by placing their hands on the sin offering in the presence of the Priest and the Lord transferring the sin from the sinner to the sin offering correct? From here the scriptures tell us that the sinner after transferring their sins to the sin offering had to kill the sin offering with their own hands (which is what we have done to Jesus) and at this time the Priest collected the blood of the sin offering to make atonement for the sinner by the sprinkling of blood on the alter of burnt offering and the remaining blood was poured out at the base of the alter. This in turn resulted in the atonement and cleansing of sin from the sinner and is also reflected in 1 John 1:9. Now note: Where was the sin transferred to inside the Sanctuary? The sinner transferred their sins to the sin offering. We are in agreement. Now where the sin offering pays the penalty of sin (death) in order to atone for sin and the cleansing of sin happens with the sprinkling of the blood on the alter of bunt offerings. This is the cleansing of the individual from their sins that takes place in the daily ministration of the Priesthood. The yearly ministration of the Priesthood is the cleansing of the sanctuary and the removal of all the sins from God's people from the presence of God which are transferred to the scapegoat which is led by a strong man into the wilderness.
[8], And AARON SHALL CAST LOTS UPON THE
TWO GOATS; ONE LOT FOR
THE LORD, AND THE OTHER LOT FOR
THE SCAPEGOAT [עֲזָאזֵל that is ʻăzâʼzêl].
[9], And AARON SHALL BRING THE GOAT UPON WHICH
THE LORD'S LOT FELL, AND OFFER HIM FOR A SIN OFFERING.
Note: The Lords goat is for sin atonement for Gods’ people, while the other goat is the scapegoat. Also, please note that the Hebrew word used for the English translation to “scapegoat” is עֲזָאזֵל that is ʻăzâʼzêl.
Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew and English Lexicon, Unabridged - H5799
H5799. azazel
עֲזָאזֵל noun [masculine] entire removal (reduplicated intensive (Ges§ 30 n. Sta§ 124 a), abstract, √ [עזל] = Arabic remove, see BährSymb. ii. 668 Winii. 659 ff. Me SchenkelBL. i. 256; > most, proper name of spirit haunting desert, Thes Di DrHastings, DB [
a fallen angel, Lev 16:8ff. being late, according to CheZAW xv (1895), 153 ff., Ency. Bib., who derives from עזזאֿל; compare BenzEncy. Bib.], as in Jewish angelology, where probably based on interpret. of 16:8ff.; name not elsewhere); — ׳ע 16:8, 10 (twice in verse); 16:26 in ritual of
Day of Atonement, = entire removal of sin and guilt from sacred places into desert on back of goat, symbol of entire forgiveness.
Note: while the daily ministration of the Priesthood removes all sin from God's people in the Sanctuary through the ministration of transference of the sin of the sinner to the sin offering the sin remains inside the Sanctuary where it is applied to the alter of burnt offering and at the base of the alter through animal sacrifice where the remainder of the sin offering is prepared and eaten by the Priests.
According to the scriptures in Leviticus 16 is the the yearly ministration of the Priesthood that is responsible for the removal of all sin from the presence of God and the cleansing of the Sanctuary from all the sins of Gods' people brought into the Sanctuary and the presence of God through blood atonement which is then transferred in the same manner that the sinner transferred their sins to the sin offering but this time to the live scapegoat.
[10], But THE GOAT, ON WHICH THE LOT FELL TO BE THE
SCAPEGOAT [עֲזָאזֵל that is ʻăzâʼzêl], SHALL BE PRESENTED ALIVE BEFORE THE LORD, TO MAKE AN ATONEMENT WITH HIM, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness.
Note: God is making the final atonement through the cleansing of the sanctuary and removal of sin from His presence, by sending all sin from Gods’ people back to the originator of all sin Azazel (scapegoat) Satan. Leviticus 16:11-14 then talks about the High Priest offering sin atonement for himself and his family and using the censor of incense and continues in verse 15...
[15], Then shall HE
KILL THE GOAT OF THE SIN OFFERING, THAT IS FOR THE PEOPLE, AND BRING HIS BLOOD WITHIN THE VAIL, AND DO WITH THAT BLOOD AS HE DID WITH THE BLOOD OF THE BULLOCK, AND SPRINKLE IT UPON THE MERCY SEAT, AND BEFORE THE MERCY SEAT:
Note: It is "the Lords goat" that is the sin offering that is killed for the people (not the scapegoat Azazel) and it is "the Lords goat" whos blood is used for final sin atonement and the cleansing of the Sanctuary while "the scapegoat; Azazel" remains alive.
[16], And
HE SHALL [the Lords goat] MAKE AN ATONEMENT FOR THE HOLY PLACE, BECAUSE OF THE UNCLEANNESS OF THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL, AND BECAUSE OF THEIR TRANSGRESSIONS IN ALL THEIR SINS: AND SO SHALL HE DO FOR THE TABERNACLE OF THE CONGREGATION, THAT REMAINETH AMONG THEM IN THE MIDST OF THEIR UNCLEANNESS.
Note: it is "the Lords goat that is used for making atonement and cleansing of the Sanctuary and Gods' people. Scripture defines sin as the cause of uncleanness and defilement which is why the Sanctuary was to be cleaned once a year on the great day of atonement (see
Isaiah 6:5-7; compare
Matthew 15:7; 18-19;
Isaiah 64:6 etc).
[17], And there shall be no man in the tabernacle of the congregation when he goeth in TO MAKE AN ATONEMENT IN THE HOLY PLACE, until he come out, and have made an atonement for himself, and for his household, and for all the congregation of Israel.
[18], And HE SHALL GO OUT UNTO THE ALTAR THAT IS BEFORE THE LORD, AND MAKE AN ATONEMENT FOR IT; AND SHALL TAKE OF THE BLOOD OF THE BULLOCK, AND OF THE BLOOD OF THE GOAT, AND PUT IT UPON THE HORNS OF THE ALTAR ROUND ABOUT.
[19], And HE SHALL SPRINKLE OF THE BLOOD UPON IT WITH HIS FINGER SEVEN TIMES, AND CLEANSE IT, AND HALLOW IT FROM THE UNCLEANNESS OF THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL.
[20], And WHEN HE HATH MADE AN END OF RECONCILING THE HOLY PLACE, AND THE TABERNACLE OF THE CONGREGATION, AND THE ALTAR, HE SHALL BRING THE LIVE GOAT:
Note: blood sacrifice is used here for the cleansing of the Sanctuary and Gods people on the Great day of atonement in the yearly ministration of the Priesthood.
[21], And
AARON SHALL LAY BOTH HIS HANDS UPON THE HEAD OF THE LIVE GOAT, AND CONFESS OVER HIM ALL THE INIQUITIES OF THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL, AND ALL THEIR TRANSGRESSIONS IN ALL THEIR SINS, PUTTING THEM UPON THE HEAD OF THE GOAT, AND SHALL SEND HIM AWAY BY THE HAND OF A FIT MAN INTO THE WILDERNESS:
Note: The great high Priest on the day of atonement was to lay his hands on the scapegoats head just like the sinner did in transferring his sin to the sin offering under the daily ministration of the Priesthood. The high Priest was to confess all the sins of the children of Israel brought into the Sanctuary throughout the year and transfer them to the scapegoat (Azazel). So we see here there is a contradiction in your teachings. If the sins of Gods people were no longer inside the Sanctuary throughout the year then there would be no need to transfer them to the scapegoat.
[22], And
THE GOAT SHALL BEAR UPON HIM ALL THEIR INIQUITIES UNTO A LAND NOT INHABITED: AND HE SHALL LET GO THE GOAT IN THE WILDERNESS.
Note: Just as the scapegoat who bares all the sins returned to it from the yearly ministration alive to the wilderness, Satan the originator of all the sins of the people of God have their sins returned to him and led away by an angel bound 1000 years in a bottomless pit (Revelation 20:1-3).
[23], And Aaron shall come into the tabernacle of the congregation, and shall put off the linen garments, which he put on when he went into the holy place, and shall leave them there:
[24], And he shall wash his flesh with water in the holy place, and put on his garments, and come forth, AND OFFER HIS BURNT OFFERING, AND THE BURNT OFFERING OF THE PEOPLE, AND MAKE AN ATONEMENT FOR HIMSELF, AND FOR THE PEOPLE.
[25], And the fat of the sin offering shall he burn upon the altar.
[26], And he that let go the goat for the scapegoat shall wash his clothes, and bathe his flesh in water, and afterward come into the camp.
[27], And the bullock for the sin offering, and the goat for the sin offering, whose blood was brought in
TO MAKE ATONEMENT IN THE HOLY PLACE, shall one carry forth without the camp; and they shall burn in the fire their skins, and their flesh, and their dung.
[28], And he that burneth them shall wash his clothes, and bathe his flesh in water, and afterward he shall come into the camp.
[29], And THIS SHALL BE A STATUTE FOR EVER unto you: that in the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, ye shall afflict your souls, and do no work at all, whether it be one of your own country, or a stranger that sojourneth among you:
His view is that the sin offering blood carries the contagion of sin to the sanctuary for storage until the Day of Atonement where that sin, stored up throughout the year, is then removed by the rites of the Day of Atonement.
My view is shown above through the scriptures outlined in the daily and the yearly ministrations of the Priesthood.
From a big picture, systemic standpoint, the Adventist view does not make sense to me. God continually wants to remove contamination from the sanctuary, whether by sin or uncleanness. This means either purifying the person when possible in the case of uncleanness, or if they are not cleansed when possible, cutting them off. In cases where cleansing was not possible (leper still having leprosy, etc.) the person had to go out of the camp.
This is not difficult when viewed through the scriptures as seen in the daily and yearly ministrations of the Priesthood. Both have a different purpose in the Sanctuary service and Gods' plan of salvation for all mankind. Your view here is combining the daily and yearly ministrations of the Priesthood into the daily only. This is
not biblical or is it supported anywhere in the scriptures.
The same was seen in the text I referenced with blood shed where the sin contaminated the land in which God dwelt in their midst. And the person had to be killed to make atonement with his own blood to remove the defilement of bloodshed, because no substitute offering was accepted for murder, as it was a capital offense. God does not want unresolved sin contaminating His dwelling place. But the Adventist system has all of the sins piled up there.
This of course was simply a distraction and a change of subject matter to something we were not discussing earlier. We were discussing the process of sin atonement under the old covenant Sanctuary system in context to the daily and yearly ministration of the Priesthood in application to the heavenly Priesthood under the new covenant with Jesus as our great high Priest ministering on our behalf based on better promises. Your claims fall apart here when viewed in light of the yearly ministration of the Priesthood as shown in our discussion and the cleansing of the Sanctuary on the great day of atonement and the removal of all sin from the presence of the Lord.
more to come...