Seventh-day Adventists affirm "sola scriptura testing" AND The 1Cor 12 gift of prophecy

LoveGodsWord

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You have posted ZERO texts that say sin was transferred to the sanctuary BY THE SIN OFFERING.

I want you to post one text that says that sin was transferred BY THE SIN OFFERING to the sanctuary.

Post the words of the text. Specific verses that say what you claim.

And then explain why the text says the opposite, that things that touched the sin offering became holy, and that the blood of the sin offering made atonement rather than transferring sin.


Sin offerings being made in the sanctuary is not the point. You have said that sin offerings transfer sin to the sanctuary, and you must prove it. The text says that the blood of the sin offerings offered at the sanctuary make atonement in the holy place, and that anything the sin offering touches is holy.

You say the opposite with no text. Now post a text that says what you claim, or else the whole basis of the doctrine, and Ellen White's statement are lacking.

In the old covenant Sanctuary system according to the scriptures ALL SIN OFFERINGS WERE BROUGHT INTO (TRANSFERRED) TO SANCTUARY TO MAKE ATONEMENT FOR SIN!

LAW OF THE SIN OFFERING TRANSFERRED TO THE SANCTUARY BY THE SINNER


ALL SIN OFFERINGS AND BLOOD ATONEMENT WERE ONLY TO BE BROUGHT AND KILLED ONLY INSIDE THE SANCTUARY.

Leviticus 17:1-16
[1], And the LORD spoke to Moses, saying,
[2], Speak to Aaron, and to his sons, and to all the children of Israel, and say to them; This is the thing which the LORD has commanded, saying,
[3], What man soever there be of the house of Israel, that kills an ox, or lamb, or goat, in the camp, or that kills it out of the camp,
[4], And brings it not to the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, to offer an offering to the LORD before the tabernacle of the LORD; blood shall be imputed to that man; he has shed blood; and that man shall be cut off from among his people:

THE PRIEST

Leviticus 4:5-7; 18
[5], And the priest that is anointed shall take of the bullock's blood, and bring it to the tabernacle of the congregation:
[6], And the priest shall dip his finger in the blood, and sprinkle of the blood seven times before the LORD, before the veil of the sanctuary.
[7], And the priest shall put some of the blood on the horns of the altar of sweet incense before the LORD, which is in the tabernacle of the congregation; and shall pour all the blood of the bullock at the bottom of the altar of the burnt offering, which is at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.

THE INDIVIDUAL (see also Numbers 15)


Leviticus 4:27-35
[27], And if any one of the common people sin through ignorance, while he does somewhat against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and be guilty;
[28], Or if his sin, which he has sinned, come to his knowledge: then he shall bring his offering, a kid of the goats, a female without blemish, for his sin which he has sinned.
[29], And he shall lay his hand on the head of the sin offering, and slay the sin offering in the place of the burnt offering.
[30], And the priest shall take of the blood thereof with his finger, and put it on the horns of the altar of burnt offering, and shall pour out all the blood thereof at the bottom of the altar.
[31], And he shall take away all the fat thereof, as the fat is taken away from off the sacrifice of peace offerings; and the priest shall burn it on the altar for a sweet smell to the LORD; and the priest shall make an atonement for him, and it shall be forgiven him.
[32], And if he bring a lamb for a sin offering, he shall bring it a female without blemish.
[33], And he shall lay his hand on the head of the sin offering, and slay it for a sin offering in the place where they kill the burnt offering.
[34], And the priest shall take of the blood of the sin offering with his finger, and put it on the horns of the altar of burnt offering, and shall pour out all the blood thereof at the bottom of the altar:
[35], And he shall take away all the fat thereof, as the fat of the lamb is taken away from the sacrifice of the peace offerings; and the priest shall burn them on the altar, according to the offerings made by fire to the LORD: and the priest shall make an atonement for his sin that he has committed, and it shall be forgiven him.

EATEN BY THE PRIEST IN THE DAILY IF THE BLOOD IS NOT BROUGHT INTO THE HOLY PLACES


Leviticus 6:25-30 [25], Speak to Aaron and to his sons, saying, This is the law of the sin offering: In the place where the burnt offering is killed shall the sin offering be killed before the LORD: it is most holy.
[26], The priest that offers it for sin shall eat it: in the holy place shall it be eaten, in the court of the tabernacle of the congregation.
[27], Whatever shall touch the flesh thereof shall be holy: and when there is sprinkled of the blood thereof on any garment, you shall wash that where on it was sprinkled in the holy place.
[28], But the earthen vessel wherein it is sodden shall be broken: and if it be sodden in a brazen pot, it shall be both scoured, and rinsed in water.
[29], All the males among the priests shall eat thereof: it is most holy.

NOT TO BE EATEN BY THE PRIESTS IF THE BLOOD IS BROUGHT INSIDE THE SANCTUARY

Leviticus 6:30 [30], And no sin offering, whereof any of the blood is brought into the tabernacle of the congregation to reconcile with in the holy place, shall be eaten: it shall be burnt in the fire.

THE ANNUAL CLEANSING OF THE SANCTUARY FROM SIN BROUGHT INTO THE SANCTUARY


Leviticus 16:2-34
[2], And the LORD said to Moses, Speak to Aaron your brother, that he come not at all times into the holy place within the veil before the mercy seat, which is on the ark; that he die not: for I will appear in the cloud on the mercy seat.
[3], Thus shall Aaron come into the holy place: with a young bullock for a sin offering, and a ram for a burnt offering.
[4], He shall put on the holy linen coat, and he shall have the linen breeches on his flesh, and shall be girded with a linen girdle, and with the linen turban shall he be attired: these are holy garments; therefore shall he wash his flesh in water, and so put them on.
[5], And he shall take of the congregation of the children of Israel two kids of the goats for a sin offering, and one ram for a burnt offering.
[6], And Aaron shall offer his bullock of the sin offering, which is for himself, and make an atonement for himself, and for his house.
[7], And he shall take the two goats, and present them before the LORD at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.
[8], And Aaron shall cast lots on the two goats; one lot for the LORD, and the other lot for the scapegoat.
[9], And Aaron shall bring the goat on which the LORD's lot fell, and offer him for a sin offering.
[10], But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the LORD, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness.
[11], And Aaron shall bring the bullock of the sin offering, which is for himself, and shall make an atonement for himself, and for his house, and shall kill the bullock of the sin offering which is for himself:
[12], And he shall take a censer full of burning coals of fire from off the altar before the LORD, and his hands full of sweet incense beaten small, and bring it within the veil:
[13], And he shall put the incense on the fire before the LORD, that the cloud of the incense may cover the mercy seat that is on the testimony, that he die not:
[14], And he shall take of the blood of the bullock, and sprinkle it with his finger on the mercy seat eastward; and before the mercy seat shall he sprinkle of the blood with his finger seven times.
[15], Then shall he kill the goat of the sin offering, that is for the people, and bring his blood within the veil, and do with that blood as he did with the blood of the bullock, and sprinkle it on the mercy seat, and before the mercy seat:
[16], And he shall make an atonement for the holy place, because of the uncleanness of the children of Israel, and because of their transgressions in all their sins: and so shall he do for the tabernacle of the congregation, that remains among them in the middle of their uncleanness.
[17], And there shall be no man in the tabernacle of the congregation when he goes in to make an atonement in the holy place, until he come out, and have made an atonement for himself, and for his household, and for all the congregation of Israel.
[18], And he shall go out to the altar that is before the LORD, and make an atonement for it; and shall take of the blood of the bullock, and of the blood of the goat, and put it on the horns of the altar round about.
[19], And he shall sprinkle of the blood on it with his finger seven times, and cleanse it, and hallow it from the uncleanness of the children of Israel.

Note: The "uncleanness" here is from the sins brought into the Sanctuary from Gods' people.

[20], And when he has made an end of reconciling the holy place, and the tabernacle of the congregation, and the altar, he shall bring the live goat:
[21], And Aaron shall lay both his hands on the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them on the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:
[22], And the goat shall bear on him all their iniquities to a land not inhabited: and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness.

Note: all the sins of God's people throughout the year brought inside the Sanctuary are transferred to the goat which is taken outside of the Sanctuary led by a strong man into the wilderness.

[23], And Aaron shall come into the tabernacle of the congregation, and shall put off the linen garments, which he put on when he went into the holy place, and shall leave them there:
[24], And he shall wash his flesh with water in the holy place, and put on his garments, and come forth, and offer his burnt offering, and the burnt offering of the people, and make an atonement for himself, and for the people.

Note: Atonement is made latter for the Priest and Gods' people who are in repentance before God (see Leviticus 23:28-30

[25], And the fat of the sin offering shall he burn on the altar.
[26], And he that let go the goat for the scapegoat shall wash his clothes, and bathe his flesh in water, and afterward come into the camp.
[27], And the bullock for the sin offering, and the goat for the sin offering, whose blood was brought in to make atonement in the holy place, shall one carry forth without the camp; and they shall burn in the fire their skins, and their flesh, and their dung.
[28], And he that burns them shall wash his clothes, and bathe his flesh in water, and afterward he shall come into the camp.
[29], And this shall be a statute for ever to you: that in the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, you shall afflict your souls, and do no work at all, whether it be one of your own country, or a stranger that sojournes among you:
[30], For on that day shall the priest make an atonement for you, to cleanse you, that you may be clean from all your sins before the LORD.
[31], It shall be a sabbath of rest to you, and you shall afflict your souls, by a statute for ever.
[32], And the priest, whom he shall anoint, and whom he shall consecrate to minister in the priest's office in his father's stead, shall make the atonement, and shall put on the linen clothes, even the holy garments:
[33], And he shall make an atonement for the holy sanctuary, and he shall make an atonement for the tabernacle of the congregation, and for the altar, and he shall make an atonement for the priests, and for all the people of the congregation.
[34], And this shall be an everlasting statute to you, to make an atonement for the children of Israel for all their sins once a year. And he did as the LORD commanded Moses.

..........

Under the old covenant all sin was brought inside the Sanctuary to make atonement for God's people in the daily sacrifices for sins. This is what it means to have our sins transferred to the Sanctuary because only atonement for sin could be made by a Priest in the Sanctuary. The Sanctuary was then latter cleansed from all sin from the presence of God and transferred to the scapegoat on the Great day of atonement and taken outside of the Sanctuary to remove all sin from the presence of God and to cleanse the Sanctuary (the yearly).

Continued.....
 
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LoveGodsWord

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ALL THE DAILY SACRIFICES FOR SIN ARE TRANSFERRED INTO THE SANCTUARY WHERE BLOOD ATONEMENT WAS MADE BY THE PRIEST (shown from the scriptures in the last post)

As posted earlier; ALL SIN OFFERINGS WHERE BROUGHT INTO AND TRANSFERRED TO THE SANCTUARY TO MAKE ATONEMENT FOR SIN!

There is a lot of scripture in this regards and depending on the type of sin offering (Priest; individual, congregation or leader) the process was slightly different to the individual cases and application of blood but in general, all animal sacrifices were killed in the courtyard of the Sanctuary before the Priest or by the priest (if he had sinned) where the sinner had to lay their hands on the head of the sacrifice confessing their sins symbolizing the transfer of sin to the animal sacrifice and personally kill the animal before the Priest (or by the Priest if the Priest did sin).

The Priest then took the blood representing the life of the sin offering that atones for sin and depending on who the sin offering was for, in the daily, the blood was sprinkled on the alter of burnt offering, on the veil of the Sanctuary before the Lord (Priests). According to the scripture all sin was indeed transferred to the Sanctuary through the sin offering and blood sacrifice to make atonement for sin. Under the Mosaic covenant there was no sin offerings made outside of the Sanctuary. The daily ministration was for the forgiveness of sin brought into the Sanctuary through animal sacrifice and blood atonement.

The yearly Priestly ministration was for the cleansing of the Sanctuary and final atonement of Gods' people and the removal of all sin from the presence of God. No sin offerings and blood sacrifice was allowed outside of the Sanctuary and the Levitical Priesthood under the Mosaic covenant and Sanctuary service (see Leviticus 17:1-16).

All sin must be brought inside the Sanctuary where atonement was made by the Levitical Priesthood. This is what it means by the sins of God's people being transferred to the Sanctuary (see also; Priest: Leviticus 4:5-7; 18; Individual: Leviticus 4:27-35; Numbers 15; Leviticus 6:25:30 which is the daily. Compare this with the yearly removal of sin from God's presence and the cleansing of the Sanctuary on the day of atonement in Leviticus 16:2-34). This is how the sins of Gods' people throughout the year under the old covenant are then transferred from the Sanctuary to the scapegoat and removed from the presence of God in the great day of atonement which is the final atonement for Gods' people and the removal of sin throughout the year from the presence of God.

Take Care.
 
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tall73

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In the old covenant Sanctuary system according to the scriptures ALL SIN OFFERINGS WERE BROUGHT INTO (TRANSFERRED) TO SANCTUARY TO MAKE ATONEMENT FOR SIN!

Of course all sin offerings were brought to the sanctuary to be performed. Did you forget what you were supposed to be showing with your texts? Did you forget you were supposed to be showing how the sin offering transfers sin to the sanctuary? You did not show that.

None of the texts said sin was transferred to the sanctuary by the sin offering.


LAW OF THE SIN OFFERING TRANSFERRED TO THE SANCTUARY BY THE SINNER
ALL SIN OFFERINGS AND BLOOD ATONEMENT WERE ONLY TO BE BROUGHT AND KILLED ONLY INSIDE THE SANCTUARY.


Glad we keep agreeing that sacrifices were offered at the sanctuary. However, you said you would show that the sin offerings transfer sins to the sanctuary, and you didn't do that.

Leviticus 17:1-16
[1], And the LORD spoke to Moses, saying,
[2], Speak to Aaron, and to his sons, and to all the children of Israel, and say to them; This is the thing which the LORD has commanded, saying,
[3], What man soever there be of the house of Israel, that kills an ox, or lamb, or goat, in the camp, or that kills it out of the camp,
[4], And brings it not to the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, to offer an offering to the LORD before the tabernacle of the LORD; blood shall be imputed to that man; he has shed blood; and that man shall be cut off from among his people:

Yes, they had to offer sin offerings at the tabernacle. Nothing is said there about the sin offering transferring sin to the sanctuary.

Leviticus 4:5-7; 18
[5], And the priest that is anointed shall take of the bullock's blood, and bring it to the tabernacle of the congregation:
[6], And the priest shall dip his finger in the blood, and sprinkle of the blood seven times before the LORD, before the veil of the sanctuary.
[7], And the priest shall put some of the blood on the horns of the altar of sweet incense before the LORD, which is in the tabernacle of the congregation; and shall pour all the blood of the bullock at the bottom of the altar of the burnt offering, which is at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.

That said nothing about sin being transferred to the sanctuary.

And you didn't explain why the text says that the blood brought in made atonement in the holy place (not transferred sin).

Lev 6:30 But no sin offering shall be eaten from which any blood is brought into the tent of meeting to make atonement in the Holy Place; it shall be burned up with fire.


The blood made atonement in the holy place. It did not transfer sin to the holy place.


THE INDIVIDUAL (see also Numbers 15)

Leviticus 4:27-35
[27], And if any one of the common people sin through ignorance, while he does somewhat against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and be guilty;
[28], Or if his sin, which he has sinned, come to his knowledge: then he shall bring his offering, a kid of the goats, a female without blemish, for his sin which he has sinned.
[29], And he shall lay his hand on the head of the sin offering, and slay the sin offering in the place of the burnt offering.
[30], And the priest shall take of the blood thereof with his finger, and put it on the horns of the altar of burnt offering, and shall pour out all the blood thereof at the bottom of the altar.
[31], And he shall take away all the fat thereof, as the fat is taken away from off the sacrifice of peace offerings; and the priest shall burn it on the altar for a sweet smell to the LORD; and the priest shall make an atonement for him, and it shall be forgiven him.

Nothing at all about transfer of sin to the sanctuary. In fact it again says it makes atonement and forgives.

EATEN BY THE PRIEST IN THE DAILY IF NOT BROUGHT INTO THE HOLY PLACES

Leviticus 6:25-30 [25], Speak to Aaron and to his sons, saying, This is the law of the sin offering: In the place where the burnt offering is killed shall the sin offering be killed before the LORD: it is most holy.
[26], The priest that offers it for sin shall eat it: in the holy place shall it be eaten, in the court of the tabernacle of the congregation.
[27], Whatever shall touch the flesh thereof shall be holy: and when there is sprinkled of the blood thereof on any garment, you shall wash that where on it was sprinkled in the holy place.
[28], But the earthen vessel wherein it is sodden shall be broken: and if it be sodden in a brazen pot, it shall be both scoured, and rinsed in water.
[29], All the males among the priests shall eat thereof: it is most holy.

Nothing at all about transferring sin. In fact it said in verse 27 that anything it touches is made holy.


NOT TO BE EATEN BY THE PRIESTS IF THE BLOOD IN BROUGHT INSIDE THE SANCTUARY

Leviticus 6:30 [30], And no sin offering, whereof any of the blood is brought into the tabernacle of the congregation to reconcile with in the holy place, shall be eaten: it shall be burnt in the fire.

You will note that the blood not only is not described as transferring sin, but reconciling, or making atonement, in the same terminology used in Lev. 16.

Not one of those texts said a word about sin transferring to the sanctuary. And you only highlighted what they do say. They make atonement for the person, and the blood makes atonement in the holy place. And the flesh of the sin offering makes things holy, rather than transferring sin.

THE ANNUAL CLEANSING OF THE SANCTUARY FROM SIN BROUGHT INTO THE SANCTUARY

....

[16], And he shall make an atonement for the holy place, because of the uncleanness of the children of Israel, and because of their transgressions in all their sins: and so shall he do for the tabernacle of the congregation, that remains among them in the middle of their uncleanness.

You put bold and underline and red text here. Did you note what it says there at the end of the verse that you did not bold? The reason the sanctuary needed cleansing is not because of the sin offering. It is because it remains in the midst of an unclean people.

Note: The "uncleanness" here is from the sins brought into the Sanctuary from Gods' people.

Actually it says it is from being in the midst of an unclean people. It says nothing about the sin offering.

Under the old covenant all sin was brought inside the Sanctuary in the daily sacrifices for sins.

None of your texts said that the blood of the sin offering, etc. transferred sins to the sanctuary. Instead it says that the sin offering atoned, forgave, made atonement in the holy place, and the flesh of the sin offering made things holy. Those are the opposite of your contention.

And Lev. 16:16 indicates that the sin is cleansed because the sanctuary is in the midst of an unclean people.

Here is another example of sin contaminating the sanctuary, with no sin offering involved:

Lev 15:29 And on the eighth day she shall take two turtledoves or two pigeons and bring them to the priest, to the entrance of the tent of meeting.
Lev 15:30 And the priest shall use one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering. And the priest shall make atonement for her before the LORD for her unclean discharge.
Lev 15:31 “Thus you shall keep the people of Israel separate from their uncleanness, lest they die in their uncleanness by defiling my tabernacle that is in their midst.”


Here it is necessary to remove her uncleanness so that she does not die in her uncleanness by defiling the tabernacle in their midst.

The sin offering is the means to make atonement (not transfer sin).

If the person did not submit to the cleansing offered at the sanctuary through the sin offering then the uncleanness remained and defiled the tabernacle, in the midst of the people. This defilement requires no sin offering to occur. In fact, it occurs because the sin offering was not brought, and the uncleanness remains. Unresolved sin in the camp defiles. The purpose of the sin offering is to atone and remove the uncleanness or sin. That is why, just like the sin offering in the Day of Atonement, the sin offering in the year makes atonement, rather than transfer sin.

We see again that someone who did not submit to cleansing would thereby pollute the sanctuary:

Num 19:20 “If the man who is unclean does not cleanse himself, that person shall be cut off from the midst of the assembly, since he has defiled the sanctuary of the LORD. Because the water for impurity has not been thrown on him, he is unclean.


His presence as an unclean person, not submitting to the solution at the sanctuary for cleansing, means that he defiled the sanctuary. He is to be cut off from the midst of the assembly, because he is still unclean, and has not availed himself of the cleansing.

God drove them into captivity when they sinned and defiled the temple by committing abominations:

2Ch 36:14 All the officers of the priests and the people likewise were exceedingly unfaithful, following all the abominations of the nations. And they polluted the house of the LORD that he had made holy in Jerusalem.

It is not speaking of sin offerings, because there was no sin offering for those things classed as abominations. But this sin polluted the house of the Lord. Therefore they were put to death for abominations, because it would then cleanse the sin.


Sin contaminates by its presence. Someone who offered their children to Molech would make the sanctuary unclean, and profane God's holy name.

Lev 20:2 “Say to the people of Israel, Any one of the people of Israel or of the strangers who sojourn in Israel who gives any of his children to Molech shall surely be put to death. The people of the land shall stone him with stones.
Lev 20:3 I myself will set my face against that man and will cut him off from among his people, because he has given one of his children to Molech, to make my sanctuary unclean and to profane my holy name.

In this case the person had to bear their own sin and be killed to remove the contamination.


In regards to shedding of blood God said:

Num 35:33 You shall not pollute the land in which you live, for blood pollutes the land, and no atonement can be made for the land for the blood that is shed in it, except by the blood of the one who shed it.
Num 35:34 You shall not defile the land in which you live, in the midst of which I dwell, for I the LORD dwell in the midst of the people of Israel.”


God lives in the midst of the people of Israel, just as Lev. 16 noted, and when they committed sin it contaminated the land and the place where God dwells in their midst.

In the case of uncleanness or unintentional sins the person could offer a sin offering that would die in their place. In the above text there is no offering for murder. So the person had to die for their own sin. Bloodshed by the commission of the sin itself polluted the land. The blood of the one who shed it is required to make atonement. Even here blood sets right, but the person has no substitute, so it is their own blood.

When someone sins they bear there sin upon them. When someone is unclean they bear their uncleanness. The solution is the sin offering which makes atonement (not transfer).

Even Isaiah, when he sees the Lord is afraid because he is a man of unclean lips, living amonst a people of unclean lips, but has gone into the holy presence of the Lord. He is atoned for:

Isa 6:5 And I said: “Woe is me! For I am lost; for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts!”
Isa 6:6 Then one of the seraphim flew to me, having in his hand a burning coal that he had taken with tongs from the altar.
Isa 6:7 And he touched my mouth and said: “Behold, this has touched your lips; your guilt is taken away, and your sin atoned for.”


The sin offering represents Jesus. His blood doesn't transfer, but atones and forgives:

1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.
1Jn 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


The same thing is done by the sin offering:

Lev 4:34 Then the priest shall take some of the blood of the sin offering with his finger and put it on the horns of the altar of burnt offering and pour out all the rest of its blood at the base of the altar.
Lev 4:35 And all its fat he shall remove as the fat of the lamb is removed from the sacrifice of peace offerings, and the priest shall burn it on the altar, on top of the LORD's food offerings. And the priest shall make atonement for him for the sin which he has committed, and he shall be forgiven.
 
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tall73

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The daily ministration was for the forgiveness of sin brought into the Sanctuary through animal sacrifice and blood atonement.

The yearly Priestly ministration was for the cleansing of the Sanctuary

Both cleansed the sanctuary, because both were pictures of Jesus' blood.

Lev 6:30 But no sin offering shall be eaten from which any blood is brought into the tent of meeting to make atonement in the Holy Place; it shall be burned up with fire.

Lev 16:17 No one may be in the tent of meeting from the time he enters to make atonement in the Holy Place until he comes out and has made atonement for himself and for his house and for all the assembly of Israel.


The same language is used in both, which Adventists cannot explain, because they see one as transfer, and the other cleansing. But both made atonement in the holy place.

The sin offering for an individual represents atonement for one sin. It goes to the altar.

The sin offering for the whole camp represents atonement for one sin of the whole camp. It had to go to the altar of incense because it was making cleansing in the holy place for a greater amount of sin.

The sin offering from which blood was taken into the sanctuary on the Day of Atonement represents atonement for all the sins of the whole camp for the whole year. And because it is an even greater atonement in the holy place, it had to go further into the sanctuary.

They are all doing the same thing, because they are all sin offerings. They are atoning, and making purification for the holy place, because of the sins that the people have committed, defiling the sanctuary in their midst.

The sacrifices are brought to the sanctuary to remove the sin, not bring it in and store it even closer to God's presence. Sin and uncleanness were to be cleansed so they didn't defile the temple. They were not stored up IN the temple. Sin and uncleanness that could not be removed at that time was to be kept away from the sanctuary.

Those who had unresolved uncleanness were not permitted to minister in the sanctuary:

Lev 22:3 Say unto them, Whosoever he be of all your seed among your generations, that goeth unto the holy things, which the children of Israel hallow unto the LORD, having his uncleanness upon him, that soul shall be cut off from my presence: I am the LORD.
Lev 22:4 What man soever of the seed of Aaron is a leper, or hath a running issue; he shall not eat of the holy things, until he be clean. And whoso toucheth any thing that is unclean by the dead, or a man whose seed goeth from him;

You had to be clean to eat of the peace offerings:

Lev 7:20 but the person who eats of the flesh of the sacrifice of the LORD's peace offerings while an uncleanness is on him, that person shall be cut off from his people.


Those who had un-reconciled uncleanness had to be put out of the camp, because the Lord dwells in the midst of the camp:

Num 5:2 “Command the people of Israel that they put out of the camp everyone who is leprous or has a discharge and everyone who is unclean through contact with the dead.
Num 5:3 You shall put out both male and female, putting them outside the camp, that they may not defile their camp, in the midst of which I dwell.”

Even when the armies of the Lord went to battle they had to remove the unclean from God's presence. And they had to bury their excrement because God walked in the camp!

Deu 23:9 “When you are encamped against your enemies, then you shall keep yourself from every evil thing.
Deu 23:10 “If any man among you becomes unclean because of a nocturnal emission, then he shall go outside the camp. He shall not come inside the camp,
Deu 23:11 but when evening comes, he shall bathe himself in water, and as the sun sets, he may come inside the camp.
Deu 23:12 “You shall have a place outside the camp, and you shall go out to it.
Deu 23:13 And you shall have a trowel with your tools, and when you sit down outside, you shall dig a hole with it and turn back and cover up your excrement.
Deu 23:14 Because the LORD your God walks in the midst of your camp, to deliver you and to give up your enemies before you, therefore your camp must be holy, so that he may not see anything indecent among you and turn away from you.


Uncleanness and sin were to be kept from the presence of a holy God. When they could be atoned for they would be at the sanctuary, removing the sin. When they could not be at that time the person was removed from the camp where the Lord dwelt.

But you have set that on its head indicating that all the sin should be brought into God's dwelling place. That is not what the text says.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Of course all sin offerings were brought to the sanctuary to be performed. Did you forget what you were supposed to be showing with your texts, that you did not show? You were supposed to be showing that sin offering transferred sin. Underlining and all caps doesn't do that.
If you agree that the scriptures that were shown to you from Leviticus 4:5-7; 18; Leviticus 4:27-35; Numbers 15; Leviticus 6:25-30 for daily sacrifice of sin and blood atonement were brought into the Sanctuary that is what it means when it is said that the sin are transferred to the Sanctuary because it is in the Sanctuary that sins are atoned for with blood sacrifice under the Levitical Priesthood. As posted earlier, under the old covenant all sin was brought inside the Sanctuary to make atonement for God's people in the daily and yearly sacrifices for sins.

The Sanctuary was then latter cleansed from all sin that was brought into it from the sins of God's people throughout the year from the presence of God and transferred to the scapegoat on the Great day of atonement and taken outside of the Sanctuary to remove all sin from the presence of God and to cleanse the Sanctuary (the yearly).

How do you think that all the sins that Gods' people had committed throughout the year were transferred to the scapegoat if they were not transferred to the Sanctuary through sacrifice and blood atonement? That was the reason as posted earlier, that the only place sacrifice for sin and blood atonement could be made under the Mosaic covenant was in the Sanctuary under the ministration of the Levitical Priesthood.

Compare this with the yearly Priestly ministration which is the removal of sin from God's presence and the cleansing of the Sanctuary on the day of atonement in Leviticus 16:2-34) and the transfer of all of God's peoples sins committed throughout the year to the scapegoat which is what the scriptures are teaching.
None of the texts said sin was transferred to the sanctuary by the sin offering.
No not at all. Everyone of those scriptures prove that sin needed to be transferred or taken into the Sanctuary under the daily ministration of the Levitical Priesthood by animal sacrifice and blood offering in order to receive Gods' forgiveness under the daily ministration of the Sanctuary Priesthood. The scriptures also tell us that the yearly ministration (day of atonement) of the Priesthood was in regards to the removal of sin and the cleansing of the Sanctuary from the presence of God and that all sin from God's people throughout the year were then transferred to the scapegoat and take outside of the Sanctuary by a strong man to the wilderness representing the final atonement of all sin being transferred to Satan as final sin bearer at the coming of Christ *Revelation 20:1-3; Revelation 22:11-15.
And you didn't explain why the text says that the blood brought in made atonement in the holy place (not transferred sin). Lev 6:30 But no sin offering shall be eaten from which any blood is brought into the tent of meeting to make atonement in the Holy Place; it shall be burned up with fire.
This was indeed explained earlier. As posted earlier no sin offering brought inside the Sanctuary for blood atonement was eaten by the Priesthood.

EATEN BY THE PRIEST IN THE DAILY IF THE BLOOD IS NOT BROUGHT INTO THE HOLY PLACES


Leviticus 6:25-30 [25], Speak to Aaron and to his sons, saying, This is the law of the sin offering: In the place where the burnt offering is killed shall the sin offering be killed before the LORD: it is most holy.
[26], The priest that offers it for sin shall eat it: in the holy place shall it be eaten, in the court of the tabernacle of the congregation.
[27], Whatever shall touch the flesh thereof shall be holy: and when there is sprinkled of the blood thereof on any garment, you shall wash that where on it was sprinkled in the holy place.
[28], But the earthen vessel wherein it is sodden shall be broken: and if it be sodden in a brazen pot, it shall be both scoured, and rinsed in water.
[29], All the males among the priests shall eat thereof: it is most holy.

NOT TO BE EATEN BY THE PRIESTS IF THE BLOOD IS BROUGHT INSIDE THE SANCTUARY

Leviticus 6:30 [30], And no sin offering, whereof any of the blood is brought into the tabernacle of the congregation to reconcile with in the holy place, shall be eaten: it shall be burnt in the fire.

As it was in the day of atonement

The blood made atonement in the holy place. It did not transfer sin to the holy place.
As posted earlier some time ago now, your mixing up the daily ministrations of the Priesthood and blood atonement with the yearly ministration of the Priesthood. The daily ministration of the Priesthood is the bringing inside the Sanctuary, the sins of Gods' people so they can receive forgiveness of sins while the yearly ministration of the Priesthood is the removal of the sins of all of God's people brought into the Sanctuary through out the year to the scapegoat and taken outside of the Sanctuary to the wilderness.

Generally the daily ministration of the Priesthood does not bring the blood sacrifice into the holy places of the Sanctuary. This is done in the yearly ministration of the Priesthood on the great day of atonement . The daily ministration of the Priesthood has the sinner killing the animal sacrifice in the courtyard where blood is sprinkled on the alter of burnt offering in the case of the common person or the veil of the holy place if a Priest. The rest of the blood was poured out at the base of the alter of burnt offering (see Leviticus 4:5-7; 18; Leviticus 4:27-35; Numbers 15; Leviticus 6:25-30 already provided).

On the day of atonement however the blood sacrifice was brought inside the Sanctuary. This included two sin offerings being the bull for the sins of the Great High Priest and his family *Leviticus 16:6-14 and the other being the Lords goat for the sins of the people (caste by lots for the Lords goat sacrifice and the scapegoat that was led into the wilderness) *Leviticus 16:7-8; Leviticus 16:15.

Cleansing was then made for the holy place with the blood of the sin offerings *Leviticus 16:16-17 after this atonement was then made for the alter of bunt offering *Leviticus 16:18-19. After the cleansing of the Sanctuary was completed the scapegoat had the sins of the people transferred to it and was taken outside of the Sanctuary and led into the wilderness by a strong man *Leviticus 16:20-22.

After this was completed and the High Priest changed His garments burnt offerings were provided and the fat of the sin offerings was burned on the alter and the remains of the bull and goat were taken outside of the camp where they were burned *Leviticus 16:24-27. The daily blood atonement was not made inside the holy places accept on the day of atonement of the cleansing of the Sanctuary and the the removal of sin from the presence of God to the scapegoat.
And Lev. 16:16 indicates that the sin is cleansed because the sanctuary is in the midst of an unclean people.
No, this is a yearly ministration of the Priesthood not the daily. Leviticus 16:16 does not indicate that the sin is cleansed because the sanctuary is in the midst of an unclean people. That does not even make any sense. The scripture says [16], And he shall make an atonement for the holy place, because of the uncleanness of the children of Israel, and because of their transgressions in all their sins: and so shall he do for the tabernacle of the congregation, that remains among them in the middle of their uncleanness.

The uncleanness of the people is because they are sinners and because of their sins. This is why the Sanctuary needs to the cleansed from sin and removed from the presence of God on the great day of atonement to the scapegoat and transferred to the wilderness.
Here is another example of sin contaminating the sanctuary, with no sin offering involved:

Lev 15:29 And on the eighth day she shall take two turtledoves or two pigeons and bring them to the priest, to the entrance of the tent of meeting.
Lev 15:30 And the priest shall use one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering. And the priest shall make atonement for her before the LORD for her unclean discharge.
Lev 15:31 “Thus you shall keep the people of Israel separate from their uncleanness, lest they die in their uncleanness by defiling my tabernacle that is in their midst.”

Here it is necessary to remove her uncleanness so that she does not die in her uncleanness by defiling the tabernacle in their midst.
Your comparing Leviticus 16:16 which is talking about the uncleanness of God's people because of their sins on the great day of atonement with menstruating woman in Leviticus 15:29-31. You should consider contexts and subject matter. They are not the same or relevant.
The sin offering is the means to make atonement (not transfer sin).
No one said that the sin offering is not the means to make atonement. Your making arguments no one is arguing about. What your missing however as shown through the scriptures already is that all the sins of God's people are brought into the Sanctuary and all sin offerings and blood offerings were made inside the Sanctuary under the ministration of the Priesthood.

This is what it means in transferring the sins of the people to the Sanctuary to make blood atonement for the forgiveness of sins. No one has ever said to you that the sin offering is not the means for atonement. All this happens inside the Sanctuary under two ministrations of the Priesthood in the daily sin offerings and blood sacrifice and the yearly which is the removal of the sins of Gods' people that have been brought into the Sanctuary from the presence of God to the scapegoat throughout the year. The rest of your post here is repetition already addressed through the scriptures shared above.

Take Care.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Both cleansed the sanctuary, because both were pictures of Jesus' blood. Lev 6:30 But no sin offering shall be eaten from which any blood is brought into the tent of meeting to make atonement in the Holy Place; it shall be burned up with fire. Lev 16:17 No one may be in the tent of meeting from the time he enters to make atonement in the Holy Place until he comes out and has made atonement for himself and for his house and for all the assembly of Israel.
Absolutely! So what is your argument? You have not made one and are trying to make argument no one is arguing about. What I believe you are not considering though in the scriptures that have been shared with you already and pointed out consistently in our conversation, is that the application of blood atonement and animal sacrifice is different between the daily ministration of the Priesthood and the yearly ministration of the Priesthood on the great day of atonement. The daily is receiving Gods forgiveness of sin as they are brought into the Sanctuary through the ministration of the Priesthood while the yearly is the final blood atonement and the removal of all sin from the Sanctuary and presence of God being transferred to the scapegoat and removed from Gods' presence
The same language is used in both, which Adventists cannot explain, because they see one as transfer, and the other cleansing. But both made atonement in the holy place.
Well that claim has no truth in it at all. See previous section of this post and also the other posts and scriptures that have already been shared with you showing the difference between the two Priestly ministrations of the daily and the yearly with it's final atonement and blood offerings and the removal of all sins of Gods' people through out the year from the presence of God to the scapegoat already shown through the scriptures.
The sin offering for an individual represents atonement for one sin. It goes to the altar.
Ok so your point is? Where does the blood of the sin offering go when contrasting the daily with the yearly and what is the difference between the two ministrations? I do not think your considering this to be honest.
The sin offering for the whole camp represents atonement for one sin of the whole camp. It had to go to the altar of incense because it was making cleansing in the holy place for a greater amount of sin
I see and what sin would that be for the whole camp? Your mixing up the daily with the yearly again. There is congregational sin offerings outside of the yearly day of atonement for specific sins as shown in Leviticus 4:13-21. This sin offering for God's people are for specific specified sins (e.g. Idolatry). The sin offering however on the day of atonement is for remaining unknown sin while the day of atonement is in progress and God's people are remaining in repentance before the Lord while the day of atonement is being carried out *Leviticus 16:29-30; Leviticus 23:23-30. It is the final sin offering for all of Gods' people while atonement is being made and the sins of God's people throughout the year are cleansed from the Sanctuary and transferred to the scapegoat (Leviticus 16:20-22).
They are all doing the same thing, because they are all sin offerings. They are atoning, and making purification for the holy place, because of the sins that the people have committed, defiling the sanctuary in their midst.

The sacrifices are brought to the sanctuary to remove the sin, not bring it in and store it even closer to God's presence. Sin and uncleanness were to be cleansed so they didn't defile the temple. They were not stored up IN the temple. Sin and uncleanness that could not be removed at that time was to be kept away from the sanctuary.

Those who had unresolved uncleanness were not permitted to minister in the sanctuary:

Lev 22:3 Say unto them, Whosoever he be of all your seed among your generations, that goeth unto the holy things, which the children of Israel hallow unto the LORD, having his uncleanness upon him, that soul shall be cut off from my presence: I am the LORD.
Lev 22:4 What man soever of the seed of Aaron is a leper, or hath a running issue; he shall not eat of the holy things, until he be clean. And whoso toucheth any thing that is unclean by the dead, or a man whose seed goeth from him;

You had to be clean to eat of the peace offerings:

Lev 7:20 but the person who eats of the flesh of the sacrifice of the LORD's peace offerings while an uncleanness is on him, that person shall be cut off from his people.

Those who had un-reconciled uncleanness had to be put out of the camp, because the Lord dwells in the midst of the camp:

Num 5:2 “Command the people of Israel that they put out of the camp everyone who is leprous or has a discharge and everyone who is unclean through contact with the dead.
Num 5:3 You shall put out both male and female, putting them outside the camp, that they may not defile their camp, in the midst of which I dwell.”

Even when the armies of the Lord went to battle they had to remove the unclean from God's presence. And they had to bury their excrement because God walked in the camp!

Deu 23:9 “When you are encamped against your enemies, then you shall keep yourself from every evil thing.
Deu 23:10 “If any man among you becomes unclean because of a nocturnal emission, then he shall go outside the camp. He shall not come inside the camp,
Deu 23:11 but when evening comes, he shall bathe himself in water, and as the sun sets, he may come inside the camp.
Deu 23:12 “You shall have a place outside the camp, and you shall go out to it.
Deu 23:13 And you shall have a trowel with your tools, and when you sit down outside, you shall dig a hole with it and turn back and cover up your excrement.
Deu 23:14 Because the LORD your God walks in the midst of your camp, to deliver you and to give up your enemies before you, therefore your camp must be holy, so that he may not see anything indecent among you and turn away from you.

Uncleanness and sin were to be kept from the presence of a holy God. When they could be atoned for they would be at the sanctuary, removing the sin. When they could not be at that time the person was removed from the camp where the Lord dwelt.

But you have set that on its head indicating that all the sin should be brought into God's dwelling place. That is not what the text says.
No not really. Your conflating the different meanings and application to cleanness and uncleanness and being defiled or undefiled outside of scripture subject matter and context to the daily ministration of the Priesthood and the yearly ministration of the Priesthood. In context to the daily ministration of the Priest in the Sanctuary and the yearly ministration of the Priest in the Sanctuary the application of uncleanness is because of sin or physical uncleanness. It is the former application of sin that is being discussed in regards to sin atonement in the daily and the yearly and not uncleanness for physical diseases or impurities. Cleanness in context to the sanctuary ministrations here is in context to receiving God's forgiveness for sin. I do not see a single scripture you have posted here that is supporting your view point in context to sin atonement between the daily and the yearly and application to physical uncleanness to disease or impurity as an application to the daily ministration of sin atonement in the daily and the yearly application of sin atonement which is the context and subject matter of our discussion. Therefore the scriptures you have provided here are irrelevant to our conversation and do not support your view point.

Take Care
 
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tall73

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Note: I will make a separate post to address the scapegoat following the other material.

If you agree that the scriptures that were shown to you from Leviticus 4:5-7; 18; Leviticus 4:27-35; Numbers 15; Leviticus 6:25-30 for daily sacrifice of sin and blood atonement were brought into the Sanctuary that is what it means when it is said that the sin are transferred to the Sanctuary

This is just what you have to tell yourself because the text doesn't say the sin is transferred to the sanctuary by the sin offering.

But the problem is it says that atonement was made in the holy place, the same thing it says after the application of blood in the Day of Atonement.

And the Day of Atonement is a picture of removal of sin due to being in the midst of a sinful people. The sin is not transferred by the sin offering, but the sanctuary is defiled by proximity to a sinful, unclean people. The various sin offerings are not the cause of sin in the sanctuary, but the solution.

Adventists have changed the whole type so that they can explain the 1844 disappointment. But you can't show from Scripture where it says sin is transferred to the sanctuary by the sin offering. And it says the opposite. It says that whatever touches the sin offering is holy. And it says that blood atones and forgives, not transfers sin.

It said the sin offering was killed at the sanctuary in order to make atonement.

Yes, just like on the Day of Atonement. It made atonement. Blood brought in from it even made atonement in the holy place, the same as stated on the day of atonement. It says nothing about transferring sin by the sin offering to the sanctuary.

because it is in the Sanctuary that sins are atoned for with blood sacrifice under the Levitical Priesthood.

Yes, atoned for, just like in the Day of Atonement. Both made atonement in the holy place, not transferred sin to the holy place:

sin offering during the year
Lev 6:30 But no sin offering shall be eaten from which any blood is brought into the tent of meeting to make atonement in the Holy Place; it shall be burned up with fire.

Day of Atonement sin offering:
Lev 16:17 No one may be in the tent of meeting from the time he enters to make atonement in the Holy Place until he comes out and has made atonement for himself and for his house and for all the assembly of Israel.

They both make atonement in the holy place, not transfer sin to the holy place.

As posted earlier, under the old covenant all sin was brought inside the Sanctuary to make atonement for God's people

All sinners came to the sanctuary to receive atonement. They did not come to have their sins stored in the sanctuary. Rather, they came to have atonement made for them, and to make atonement in the holy place. Just as atonement in the holy place in the Day of Atonement made purification for sins already in the sanctuary, so did the sin offering make atonement in the holy place during the year, cleansing, not transferring, sin.

Lev 6:30 But no sin offering shall be eaten from which any blood is brought into the tent of meeting to make atonement in the Holy Place; it shall be burned up with fire.

Lev 16:17 No one may be in the tent of meeting from the time he enters to make atonement in the Holy Place until he comes out and has made atonement for himself and for his house and for all the assembly of Israel.


How do you think that all the sins that Gods' people had committed throughout the year were transferred to the scapegoat if they were not transferred to the Sanctuary through sacrifice and blood atonement?

I already showed texts explaining how sins are transferred by commission.

The sin offerings are to make cleansing of the already present sin which results from living amongst a sinful people. Unlike your statement that the offerings transfer sin, we actually see this in the text.

Every sin offering, from the cleansing of uncleanness, to sin offerings for commoners, to sin offerings for a single sin of the whole camp, to the annual sin offering picturing the cleansing of sin for all the sins of the people through the year, they are all pictures of cleansing blood to remove the contamination of the sins of the people, because God lives in their midst.

The sin offering is removing sin from the presence of a holy God, not bringing sin into His presence.

Sin is atoned for, cleansed, not stored up.

All of the sin offerings show aspects, and lessons, of Jesus' one death and appearance before God to present His completed sacrifice.

That was the reason as posted earlier, that the only place sacrifice for sin and blood atonement could be made under the Mosaic covenant was in the Sanctuary under the ministration of the Levitical Priesthood.

The text actually says the reason. They brought it to the sanctuary of the Lord to present it to the Lord, because it His sanctuary. And they are not offering big bundles of sin to store up sin and uncleanness in His sanctuary, His dwelling place.

They are offering to Him the pleasing gift of the sin offering, which represents the sacrifice of His Son, which is most holy. Anything its flesh touches is holy. They are offering to God, and having sin cleansed so they can approach their God, who is Holy.

It is also plainly stated that they should only offer at the sanctuary to the Lord so they would not sacrifice to demons.

And again, nothing is said about transferring sin TO the sanctuary by the sin offering.

Lev 17:3 If any one of the house of Israel kills an ox or a lamb or a goat in the camp, or kills it outside the camp,
Lev 17:4 and does not bring it to the entrance of the tent of meeting to offer it as a gift to the LORD in front of the tabernacle of the LORD, bloodguilt shall be imputed to that man. He has shed blood, and that man shall be cut off from among his people.
Lev 17:5 This is to the end that the people of Israel may bring their sacrifices that they sacrifice in the open field, that they may bring them to the LORD, to the priest at the entrance of the tent of meeting, and sacrifice them as sacrifices of peace offerings to the LORD.
Lev 17:6 And the priest shall throw the blood on the altar of the LORD at the entrance of the tent of meeting and burn the fat for a pleasing aroma to the LORD.

Lev 17:7 So they shall no more sacrifice their sacrifices to demons, after whom they harlot. This shall be a statute forever for them throughout their generations.

Compare this with the yearly Priestly ministration which is the removal of sin from God's presence and the cleansing of the Sanctuary on the day of atonement in Leviticus 16:2-34)

The sin offering during the year, and the sin offering from which blood was taken in on the Day of Atonement are very comparable, because they BOTH make atonement in the holy place, as opposed to your claim.

Lev 6:30 But no sin offering shall be eaten from which any blood is brought into the tent of meeting to make atonement in the Holy Place; it shall be burned up with fire.

Lev 16:17 No one may be in the tent of meeting from the time he enters to make atonement in the Holy Place until he comes out and has made atonement for himself and for his house and for all the assembly of Israel.

No not at all. Everyone of those scriptures prove that sin needed to be transferred or taken into the Sanctuary under the daily ministration of the Levitical Priesthood by animal sacrifice and blood offering in order to receive Gods' forgiveness under the daily ministration of the Sanctuary Priesthood.

NOT ONE of them stated sin was transferred to the sanctuary by the sin offering.

You say that. They do not. They say atonement is made, and forgiveness. And atonement was made in the holy place:

Lev 6:30 But no sin offering shall be eaten from which any blood is brought into the tent of meeting to make atonement in the Holy Place; it shall be burned up with fire.

Lev 16:17 No one may be in the tent of meeting from the time he enters to make atonement in the Holy Place until he comes out and has made atonement for himself and for his house and for all the assembly of Israel.

Leviticus 6:25-30 [25], Speak to Aaron and to his sons, saying, This is the law of the sin offering: In the place where the burnt offering is killed shall the sin offering be killed before the LORD: it is most holy.
[26], The priest that offers it for sin shall eat it: in the holy place shall it be eaten, in the court of the tabernacle of the congregation.
[27], Whatever shall touch the flesh thereof shall be holy: and when there is sprinkled of the blood thereof on any garment, you shall wash that where on it was sprinkled in the holy place.
[28], But the earthen vessel wherein it is sodden shall be broken: and if it be sodden in a brazen pot, it shall be both scoured, and rinsed in water.
[29], All the males among the priests shall eat thereof: it is most holy.

NOT TO BE EATEN BY THE PRIESTS IF THE BLOOD IS BROUGHT INSIDE THE SANCTUARY

Leviticus 6:30 [30], And no sin offering, whereof any of the blood is brought into the tabernacle of the congregation to reconcile with in the holy place, shall be eaten: it shall be burnt in the fire.

As it was in the day of atonement

Yes, just as it was in the day of atonement. It was atoning for sin. It was cleansing for sin. It says nothing at all about transferring sin to the sanctuary.

And verse 27 says that the anything that touches the flesh becomes holy. It does not transfer sin. It transfers holiness.

As posted earlier some time ago now, your mixing up the daily ministrations of the Priesthood and blood atonement with the yearly ministration of the Priesthood.

Indeed I have not. Adventists have just made up their own version of the sin offering that takes sin and fills up God's dwelling with it, rather than what the text says. The text never says that sin is transferred to the sanctuary by the sin offering.

It plainly states that sin and uncleanness are atoned for. And they are to be kept away from God's presence. And it says both the sin offering during the year, and the once per year sin offering where blood went into the sanctuary made atonement in the holy place.

Doubtless you will say this is repetition. And it is because the text says it, and you just write essays about what you wish the text said so that you could support your statement that sin is transferred to the sanctuary.

Lev 6:30 But no sin offering shall be eaten from which any blood is brought into the tent of meeting to make atonement in the Holy Place; it shall be burned up with fire.

Lev 16:17 No one may be in the tent of meeting from the time he enters to make atonement in the Holy Place until he comes out and has made atonement for himself and for his house and for all the assembly of Israel.

The daily ministration of the Priesthood is the bringing inside the Sanctuary, the sins of Gods' people

Completely the opposite of what the text says! Gifts are brought to God, not contamination. Holy blood is brought for atonement, not sins for defilement. Uncleanness is to be kept outside the camp, because God dwells in the midst--not every type of uncleanness and sin stored up right next to God's presence!

The sanctuary is defiled because it is in the midst of an unclean and sinful people. This is actually stated in the text.

Lev 16:16 And he shall make an atonement for the holy place, because of the uncleanness of the children of Israel, and because of their transgressions in all their sins: and so shall he do for the tabernacle of the congregation, that remaineth among them in the midst of their uncleanness.

The atonement is the solution! And it is present in both the sin offering during the year, and once per year:


Lev 6:30 But no sin offering shall be eaten from which any blood is brought into the tent of meeting to make atonement in the Holy Place; it shall be burned up with fire.

Lev 16:17 No one may be in the tent of meeting from the time he enters to make atonement in the Holy Place until he comes out and has made atonement for himself and for his house and for all the assembly of Israel.
 
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Generally the daily ministration of the Priesthood does not bring the blood sacrifice into the holy places of the Sanctuary. This is done in the yearly ministration of the Priesthood on the great day of atonement . The daily ministration of the Priesthood has the sinner killing the animal sacrifice in the courtyard where blood is sprinkled on the alter of burnt offering in the case of the common person or the veil of the holy place if a Priest. The rest of the blood was poured out at the base of the alter of burnt offering (see Leviticus 4:5-7; 18; Leviticus 4:27-35; Numbers 15; Leviticus 6:25-30 already provided).


Agreed, and there it also made atonement, not transfer. Atonement is the cleansing of the sin or uncleanness, not the transfer.

On the day of atonement however the blood sacrifice was brought inside the Sanctuary.


And it was in two instances throughout the year, and it made atonement in the same way.

This included two sin offerings being the bull for the sins of the Great High Priest and his family *Leviticus 16:6-14 and the other being the Lords goat for the sins of the people (caste by lots for the Lords goat sacrifice and the scapegoat that was led into the wilderness) *Leviticus 16:7-8; Leviticus 16:15.

Cleansing was then made for the holy place with the blood of the sin offerings *Leviticus 16:16-17 after this atonement was then made for the alter of bunt offering *Leviticus 16:18-19.


Yes, it did the same thing as the sin offerings throughout the year, it made atonement.

The daily blood atonement was not made inside the holy places accept on the day of atonement of the cleansing of the Sanctuary


Two types of sin offerings went in, as you are aware. And when they did the blood made atonement.

And the blood on the altar made atonement.

Never is it stated that the sin offerings transferred sin. And the sin offering's flesh is said to convey holiness.


No, this is a yearly ministration of the Priesthood not the daily. Leviticus 16:16 does not indicate that the sin is cleansed because the sanctuary is in the midst of an unclean people. That does not even make any sense. The scripture says [16], And he shall make an atonement for the holy place, because of the uncleanness of the children of Israel, and because of their transgressions in all their sins: and so shall he do for the tabernacle of the congregation, that remains among them in the middle of their uncleanness.

Note, it is in the midst of their uncleanness--that is the way it is defiled. And the same thing happens in the one throughout the year and the once per year. Atonement is made. They are all pictures of Jesus' blood which cleanses, not transfers sin.

The uncleanness of the people is because they are sinners and because of their sins. This is why the Sanctuary needs to the cleansed from sin and removed from the presence of God on the great day of atonement

Agreed!

And no where does it say the sin offering transfers sin, but rather the sin offering atones for sin which is already there because of the sinful people.

You should consider contexts and subject matter. They are not the same or relevant.

You should consider what it says, rather than what it does not say. It never says the sin offering transfers sin. It does say the sin offering on the Day of Atonement and during the year makes atonement.

No one said that the sin offering is not the means to make atonement. Your making arguments no one is arguing about. What your missing however as shown through the scriptures already is that all the sins of God's people are brought into the Sanctuary

You have not shown that at all. None of your texts say sin is transferred to the sanctuary by the sin offering.

And transfer without the sin offering was demonstrated in multiple texts.

Lev 15:28 But if she be cleansed of her issue, then she shall number to herself seven days, and after that she shall be clean.
Lev 15:29 And on the eighth day she shall take unto her two turtles, or two young pigeons, and bring them unto the priest, to the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.
Lev 15:30 And the priest shall offer the one for a sin offering, and the other for a burnt offering; and the priest shall make an atonement for her before the LORD for the issue of her uncleanness.
Lev 15:31 Thus shall ye separate the children of Israel from their uncleanness; that they die not in their uncleanness, when they defile my tabernacle that is among them.

The uncleanness on the person had to be removed. Not stored in the sanctuary, removed. If it is not removed it defiles the sanctuary, not by a sin offering, but by its presence. It is the presence of sin that defiles. It is to be atoned for. Here the atoning required a sin offering. And that made cleansing. Then she would not defile the sanctuary.


This is what it means in transferring the sins of the people to the Sanctuary to make blood atonement for the forgiveness of sins.

The text never said it transfers sins. You say that. Ellen White says that. The text says it atones. The text says the blood cleanses:

Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law cleansed with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Jesus' blood doesn't transfer sin to God's presence. Jesus died to atone for sin.




 
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tall73

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Absolutely! So what is your argument? You have not made one and are trying to make argument no one is arguing about.

Of course I have made an argument. The sin offerings made atonement and cleansing. They did not transfer sin to the sanctuary, which you and Ellen White claim, but the text does not claim.

Jesus blood cleanses, not transfers sin.

Ok so your point is? Where does the blood of the sin offering go when contrasting the daily with the yearly and what is the difference between the two ministrations? I do not think your considering this to be honest.

Of course I am considering it. The blood goes further into the sanctuary the greater then sin to be atoned for. For a single sin of a single individual it goes from the entrance of the tent to the altar. For a sin of the whole camp it has to be taken into the first apartment. For the sins of all the people throughout the year it goes into the Most Holy Place.

What you are not considering is that NONE of them transfer sin TO God's presence. And you have presented ZERO texts that say they do.

They all atone and cleanse, because Jesus blood doesn't defile! The sin offering represents Jesus. Its flesh makes things holy. Its blood brings about cleansing. Jesus' blood atones for sin, it does not pile up all the sin around the dwelling place of a Holy God.

There is congregational sin offerings outside of the yearly day of atonement for specific sins as shown in Leviticus 4:13-21. This sin offering for God's people are for specific specified sins

Yes, and they made atonement in the holy place, just as on the Day of Atonement.

The sin offering however on the day of atonement is for remaining unknown sin while the day of atonement is in progress and God's people are remaining in repentance before the Lord while the day of atonement is being carried out *Leviticus 16:29-30; Leviticus 23:23-30.

It is for all the sins and uncleanness of all the people in the camp. It is a picture of the total atonement that Jesus brought about.

Lev 16:16 Thus he shall make atonement for the Holy Place, because of the uncleannesses of the people of Israel and because of their transgressions, all their sins. And so he shall do for the tent of meeting, which dwells with them in the midst of their uncleannesses.

All of the sin offerings are pictures of aspects of Jesus' one sacrifice. All cleanse, none transfer sin. Jesus' blood doesn't defile.


No not really. Your conflating the different meanings and application to cleanness and uncleanness and being defiled or undefiled outside of scripture subject matter and context to the daily ministration of the Priesthood and the yearly ministration of the Priesthood.

I am noting that sin offerings cleanse and atone. That is what it says throughout.

In context to the daily ministration of the Priest in the Sanctuary and the yearly ministration of the Priest in the Sanctuary the application of uncleanness is because of sin or physical uncleanness. It is the former application of sin that is being discussed in regards to sin atonement in the daily and the yearly and not uncleanness for physical diseases or impurities. Cleanness in context to the sanctuary ministrations here is in context to receiving God's forgiveness for sin. I do not see a single scripture you have posted here that is supporting your view point in context to sin atonement between the daily and the yearly and application to physical uncleanness to disease or impurity as an application to the daily ministration of sin atonement in the daily and the yearly application of sin atonement which is the context and subject matter of our discussion. Therefore the scriptures you have provided here are irrelevant to our conversation and do not support your view point.

Sin offerings were brought for uncleanness. And if they were not the person defiled the sanctuary.

Lev 15:28 But if she is cleansed of her discharge, she shall count for herself seven days, and after that she shall be clean.
Lev 15:29 And on the eighth day she shall take two turtledoves or two pigeons and bring them to the priest, to the entrance of the tent of meeting.
Lev 15:30 And the priest shall use one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering. And the priest shall make atonement for her before the LORD for her unclean discharge.
Lev 15:31 “Thus you shall keep the people of Israel separate from their uncleanness, lest they die in their uncleanness by defiling my tabernacle that is in their midst.”


The red heifer also was a sin offering:

Num 19:9 And a man who is clean shall gather up the ashes of the heifer and deposit them outside the camp in a clean place. And they shall be kept for the water for impurity for the congregation of the people of Israel; it is a sin offering.

And if a person was not cleansed it could lead to being cut off for defiling the sanctuary.

Num 19:20 “If the man who is unclean does not cleanse himself, that person shall be cut off from the midst of the assembly, since he has defiled the sanctuary of the LORD. Because the water for impurity has not been thrown on him, he is unclean.

It sounds like God was concerned about such uncleanness. I will take what the text says over your protestation by your own reasoning.

Note, no sin offering was needed to defile the sanctuary. The failure to remove the uncleanness itself transferred it.

Jesus' fulfillment surpassed the red heifer, which the author of Hebrews also mentioned, and did not consider it unimportant:

Heb 9:13 For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the sprinkling of defiled persons with the ashes of a heifer, sanctify for the purification of the flesh,
Heb 9:14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God.

 
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tall73

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I intentionally took out all the material related to the scapegoat for a different post, because the scapegoat is something unique to the Day of Atonement. The other offerings do not have this aspect. I see it as happening after the high priest leaves the sanctuary, and therefore relating to the end times.

The blood that went into the sanctuary already happened, and was for purification of all sins.

How do you think that all the sins that Gods' people had committed throughout the year were transferred to the scapegoat if they were not transferred to the Sanctuary through sacrifice and blood atonement?


The scapegoat is not, that I am aware of, explained in any New Testament text. So we will have to look at the type and try to draw conclusions, but can't be overly dogmatic. However, there is enough information to be quite clear that the the scapegoat does not represent Satan. The scapegoat is showing another aspect of Jesus' work in removing sins.

Both the Lord's goat and the goat for azazel are for a sin offering:

Lev 16:5 And he shall take from the congregation of the people of Israel two male goats for a sin offering, and one ram for a burnt offering.

The two goats were both ceremonially clean sacrificial animals. Satan is in no way capable of being a sin offering, nor is he ceremonially clean. He is not interchangeable with Christ in any respect. Jesus is God, and sinless, and Satan is a sinful created being. The two goats show different aspects of Jesus' atonement.


We see something similar in Leviticus 14 in offerings for the person who has leprosy.


Lev 14:4 the priest shall command them to take for him who is to be cleansed two live clean birds and cedarwood and scarlet yarn and hyssop.
Lev 14:5 And the priest shall command them to kill one of the birds in an earthenware vessel over fresh water.
Lev 14:6 He shall take the live bird with the cedarwood and the scarlet yarn and the hyssop, and dip them and the live bird in the blood of the bird that was killed over the fresh water.
Lev 14:7 And he shall sprinkle it seven times on him who is to be cleansed of the leprous disease. Then he shall pronounce him clean and shall let the living bird go into the open field.

The purpose is again not spelled out. But both birds are used in the cleansing ceremony, one killed and one released alive.


In the same way the two goats appear to show aspects of atonement. So the reason for confessing the sins and placing the hands on the goat for azazel is that it is a part of the sin offering, and the atonement.


Lev 16:7 Then he shall take the two goats and set them before the LORD at the entrance of the tent of meeting.
Lev 16:8 And Aaron shall cast lots over the two goats, one lot for the LORD and the other lot for Azazel.
Lev 16:9 And Aaron shall present the goat on which the lot fell for the LORD and use it as a sin offering,
Lev 16:10 but the goat on which the lot fell for Azazel shall be presented alive before the LORD to make atonement over it, that it may be sent away into the wilderness to Azazel.


The goat for azazel is used to make atonement. Satan can in no way make atonement for US. He will experience the lake of fire for his own sins. His sin of rebellion and his temptation of others are all his sins to bear. The wicked still die for their own sins. And the righteous would bear their sin the same as the wicked except Christ died for them as a substitute. Though he was sinless, He bore our sin.

But as a sinful creature Satan cannot bear sin for others. He cannot be a substitute. He can only bear his own sin.

And Christ already DID bear sins for us as the sinless Son of God.

The scapegoat then represents another aspect of Jesus' atonement.

Moreover, the text says the goat is "for azazel." The meaning of this term is debated. Three main views have been proposed, based on different etymology.

The first is the meaning of total removal.

The second, which seems a bit more based on later tradition but is a possibility, is that it refers to rough ground or a mountain that it is cast down from. But this casting down or killing is not mentioned in the text. It is referred to in later practice.

The third is that azazel is a demon in the wilderness. In this case Azazel would be a proper name, and as one goat is for the Lord and one for azazel. This view became more prominent after the book of Enoch which mentions a demon named azazel. But it is not stated in the text either. And the LXX translation has more the concept of removal.

And if you interpret azazel as a demon, then the goat is not the demon, but is FOR azazel, or sent to him.

But if it just means goat for removal, then the goat is pictured as carrying sins completely out of the camp.

Since this happens after the high priest leaves the sanctuary that would place it at the second coming. Christ will remove from His kingdom, from the camp, everything that defiles.

If you see it as going to azazel as an entity, then everything contaminated with sin would go to the same place that Satan is already at--the lake of fire. But Satan doesn't make atonement at all for us. He can only bear his own sin. He is not sinless, and cannot be a sin offering, a substitute, or in anyway like Christ.

The two goats were alike, and both represent aspects of Christ's ministry.

So looking at the above, the sins are confessed over the goat for azazel because the two together are a sin offering and it represents some aspect of the atonement. Hence, the transfer happens for both animals, as both are involved.


To summarize the Adventist system, they essentially reduce the work of Christ to transferring sin around:

Sinner => sacrifice => priest =>sanctuary => high priest => scapegoat (Satan)

But Jesus does more than that. He takes on the sin of the sinner and dies for it and His blood makes atonement. He is also the one to completely remove sin, sinners, etc. from the universe. And yes, His work is greater than the high priest in the earthly. He is High Priest, of a different and better order, He is King, He is Judge, and He removes all traces of sin.

Jesus paid for our sins, Satan pays the price for his own sins (including temptation).

So in light of the above, it seems the scapegoat is another work of Jesus to remove not only the guilt of sin, but all sin itself completely from the universe. He does this when He leaves the sanctuary.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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LoveGodsWord said: If you agree that the scriptures that were shown to you from Leviticus 4:5-7; 18; Leviticus 4:27-35; Numbers 15; Leviticus 6:25-30 for daily sacrifice of sin and blood atonement were brought into the Sanctuary that is what it means when it is said that the sin are transferred to the Sanctuary.
Your response here...
This is just what you have to tell yourself because the text doesn't say the sin is transferred to the sanctuary by the sin offering.
Actually no that is not true at all as shown in the very quote and scriptures you are quoting from. Leviticus 4:5-7; 18; Leviticus 4:27-35; Numbers 15; Leviticus 6:25-30 show that all animal sacrifices and sin offerings needed for blood atonement needed to be brought into the Sanctuary under ministration and intercession of the Levitical Priesthood in order for God's people to receive Gods' forgiveness while the yearly ministration of the Priesthood was for the final collective atonement of Gods' people and the removal of all sin that was brought into the Sanctuary throughout the year from the presence of God.

The yearly ministration also involved the cleansing of the Sanctuary and transferring of the sins of God's people to the scapegoat which was led by a strong man to the wilderness (Leviticus 16). These are of course all Gods' Words not my words dear friend that to disagree with your words that are not Gods' Word which you keep telling yourself. The daily ministration of the Priesthoods sacrifice of sin and blood atonement were brought into the Sanctuary in order for God's people to seek and receive Gods' forgiveness of sins. That is what it means when it is said that the sin are transferred to the Sanctuary because it is in the Sanctuary that sins are atoned for with blood sacrifice under the Levitical Priesthood. As posted earlier, under the old covenant all sin was brought inside the Sanctuary to make atonement for God's people in the daily and yearly sacrifices for sins. Your seeking to put an interpretation on SDA teachings that are simply not there.
But the problem is it says that atonement was made in the holy place, the same thing it says after the application of blood in the Day of Atonement.
There is no problem that I can see here. If you have been reading my posts you I have never said there is no atonement in the daily or the yearly ministration of the Priesthood.
And the Day of Atonement is a picture of removal of sin due to being in the midst of a sinful people. The sin is not transferred by the sin offering, but the sanctuary is defiled by proximity to a sinful, unclean people. The various sin offerings are not the cause of sin in the sanctuary, but the solution.
According to the scriptures atonement or forgiveness of sins is made under the daily (Leviticus 4:5-7; 18; Leviticus 4:27-35; Numbers 15; Leviticus 6:25-30) and yearly ministrations of the Priesthood (Leviticus 16).
The daily ministration of the Priesthood throughout the year, for God's people, involved the bringing of animal sacrifice (usually a kid of the goats, a female without blemish) into the courtyard of the Sanctuary where the sacrifice was taken to the Priesthood. The person who sinned would then need to place their hands on the live animals head confess their sin to God and kill the animal sacrifice with their own hands (wages of sin is death). The blood was collected by the Priest who with his finger, put it upon the horns of the altar of burnt offering, and then poured out the rest of the blood at the bottom of the altar. All animal sacrifice and sin offerings for blood atonement throughout the year for the sins of God's people under the old covenant were to be brought inside the Sanctuary before the Lord and the Levitical Priesthood in order for the sinner to receive God's forgiveness (atonement) for specific sins.

Unlike the daily ministration of the Priesthood that was involved in specific atonement for sin, committed by God's people day by day and brought into the Sanctuary, the yearly ministration of the Priesthood had a different purpose. Once a year, during the annual Feasts there was a Great Day of Atonement when all of God's people were required to come before the Lord afflicting their souls in repentance of sin. Those who did not partake in this act were to be "cut off" (the Hebrew word means destroyed) from God's people. The great day of atonement was proceeded with Feast of trumpets which was a 10 day blowing of trumpets as a warning to God's people of the day of judgement (for the cutting off) was coming. *see Leviticus 23:23-30; more detail in Leviticus 16:2-34.

On this day there was no individual atonement for the sins of God's people. On this once a year ministration of the Priesthood, the High Priest work included a final sin atonement of blood sacrifice (bull) for his own sins and the sins of his family as well as a final collective sin atonement of blood sacrifice (Lord's goat cast by lot between two goats one for atonement and the other for the scapegoat). The purpose of the yearly ministration of the Priesthood was for the cleansing of the Sanctuary, the final atonement of God's people, and the removal of all the sins of Gods' people brought into the Sanctuary throughout the year from the presence of God. This was done by the High Priest transferring the sins of God's people brought into the Sanctuary throughout the year to the scapegoat that was then led out of the Sanctuary into the wilderness by a strong man.

As shown in the scriptures above in the case of sin atonement for both the daily and yearly ministration of the Priesthood, it is sin that makes both Gods' people and sin that is brought into the Sanctuary into God's presence that causes uncleanness in God's eyes and the purpose of the great day of atonement is for the cleansing and removal of all sin brought into the Sanctuary throughout the year by Gods' people (see also, Isaiah 6:5-7; compare Matthew 15:7; 18-19; Isaiah 64:6 etc) from the presence of God to the scapegoat which is taken away into the wilderness.
Adventists have changed the whole type so that they can explain the 1844 disappointment. But you can't show from Scripture where it says sin is transferred to the sanctuary by the sin offering. And it says the opposite. It says that whatever touches the sin offering is holy. And it says that blood atones and forgives, not transfers sin.

No not at all dear friend. This is just what you have to tell yourself because the scriptures teach exactly what happens through the old covenant shadow laws of the daily and yearly ministration of the Levitical Priesthood in the Sanctuary system for remission of sins and the yearly application through Feast of Trumpets and the cleansing of the Sanctuary on the great day of Atonement for the cleansing of the Sanctuary and the removal of sin from the presence of God. This of course as already shown through the scriptures are God's Word not my words.

more to come....
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Yes, just like on the Day of Atonement. It made atonement. Blood brought in from it even made atonement in the holy place, the same as stated on the day of atonement. It says nothing about transferring sin by the sin offering to the sanctuary. Yes, atoned for, just like in the Day of Atonement. Both made atonement in the holy place, not transferred sin to the holy place: sin offering during the year

Lev 6:30 But no sin offering shall be eaten from which any blood is brought into the tent of meeting to make atonement in the Holy Place; it shall be burned up with fire.

Day of Atonement sin offering:
Lev 16:17 No one may be in the tent of meeting from the time he enters to make atonement in the Holy Place until he comes out and has made atonement for himself and for his house and for all the assembly of Israel.

They both make atonement in the holy place, not transfer sin to the holy place.
Actually your taking your scriptures out of context here in Leviticus 6:30 and Leviticus 16:17 and these scriptures do not support your view and once again your mixing up the daily ministration of the Priesthood with the yearly again, but allow me to show why from the scriptures, if it might be helpful.

The daily ministration of the Priesthood and blood atonement

Sin offerings for blood atonement for the daily ministration of the Priesthood for individual common people for specific sins was only ever done in the court yard where the alter of burnt offering was located. Blood atonement was sprinkled and applied to the alter of burnt offering and the remaining blood was poured out before the alter (see Leviticus 4:22, 25, 30-34). There was no blood atonement made inside the holy place for the individual sins of the individual common person who was seeking Gods' forgiveness of their sins through blood atonement in the daily ministration of the Priesthood.

The only time blood atonement was taken into the holy place in the daily ministration was when either a Priest or Gods' people as a collective whole had sinned against God. At this time blood was sprinkled against the outer veil of the holy place seven times and also applied inside the holy place to the horns of the alter of incense (see Leviticus 4:3, 6-7 and Leviticus 4:17-18). So for the common person all individual sin atonement by blood sacrifice was made outside the holy and most holy places in the courtyard in the daily ministration of the Priesthood for blood sacrifice and sin atonement unless it was a collective sin of all of God's people (e.g. idolatry) or the Priest. Leviticus 6:30 is only stating that blood sacrifice taken inside the holy place (e.g. for the sin of the Priest, or God's people collectively in the daily or for the Priest and Gods' people collectively in the yearly) was not to be eaten but burned. This is because normally all the sin offerings made outside in the courtyard could be eaten by the Priests (Leviticus 7:7).


The yearly ministration of the Priesthood and blood atonement


Unlike the daily ministration of the Priesthood the yearly ministration of the Priesthood on the great day of atonement was made through blood sacrifice for the Priest and his family (a bull) and Gods' people as a collective whole (one of the lot cast goats which was called the Lords goat) by bringing in the blood of these sin offerings into the most holy place, the holy place and the courtyard of the Sanctuary where these offerings were applied to the mercy seat in the most holy place, the alter of incense in the holy place and the alter of burnt offering in the courtyard. This was done as a final atonement and cleansing of the sanctuary from all the sins brought into Gods' sanctuary throughout the year by God's people for the removal of all sin from the presence of God. This was done by the Great high Priest as he laid his hands on the head of the scapegoat symbolically transferring all sin to the scapegoat which was then taken away by a strong man and led into the wilderness. (see Leviticus 16:2-34). During this time all of God's people were to be collectively in repentance of sin before God while the duties of the Great High Priest was being conducted.

..............

As shown from the scriptures above the context, subject matter and the application between the daily and yearly ministration of the Priesthood to not match your claims or support your use of Leviticus 6:30 and Leviticus 16:17 that blood atonement was made inside the holy place for sin and blood atonement for the common person unless it was collective known sin and that is not what we are talking about here. We are discussing the ministration of the Priesthood for daily and yearly blood atonement.


more to come...
 
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LoveGodsWord

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LoveGodsWord wrote: That was the reason as posted earlier, that the only place sacrifice for sin and blood atonement could be made under the Mosaic covenant was in the Sanctuary under the ministration of the Levitical Priesthood.
Your response here..
The text actually says the reason. They brought it to the sanctuary of the Lord to present it to the Lord, because it His sanctuary. And they are not offering big bundles of sin to store up sin and uncleanness in His sanctuary, His dwelling place.
I see that your post here for me makes absolutely no sense in response to what you are quoting from and it looks like your trying to make arguments no one is arguing about. I am not sure what your talking about here or how anything you have written here relates to what you are quoting from.
It is also plainly stated that they should only offer at the sanctuary to the Lord so they would not sacrifice to demons. And again, nothing is said about transferring sin TO the sanctuary by the sin offering.

Lev 17:3 If any one of the house of Israel kills an ox or a lamb or a goat in the camp, or kills it outside the camp,
Lev 17:4 and does not bring it to the entrance of the tent of meeting to offer it as a gift to the LORD in front of the tabernacle of the LORD, bloodguilt shall be imputed to that man. He has shed blood, and that man shall be cut off from among his people.
Lev 17:5 This is to the end that the people of Israel may bring their sacrifices that they sacrifice in the open field, that they may bring them to the LORD, to the priest at the entrance of the tent of meeting, and sacrifice them as sacrifices of peace offerings to the LORD.
Lev 17:6 And the priest shall throw the blood on the altar of the LORD at the entrance of the tent of meeting and burn the fat for a pleasing aroma to the LORD.
Lev 17:7 So they shall no more sacrifice their sacrifices to demons, after whom they harlot. This shall be a statute forever for them throughout their generations.
No not at all. According to the scriptures the whole Levitical Priesthood and Sanctuary system of blood sacrifice for forgiveness and atonement of sin as well as the annual Feasts days were all prophetic "shadow laws" of things to come pointing to the role and work of Jesus as God's sacrifice for the sins of the world in the new covenant and his future work as our great High Priest who is both God/man/king/judge in the heavenly Sanctuary that the Lord pitched and not man ministering on our behalf based on better promises under the new covenant (see Hebrews 7:1-25; Hebrews 8:1-13; Hebrews 9:1-27 and Hebrews 10:1-22).

So the reason why God's people had to make the blood sacrifices for atonement and forgiveness of sins was to teach us that Christs sacrifice was for the sins of the world once and for all (John 1:29: John 1:36 and Hebrews 10:10) and Jesus now represents us before God as our great High Priest of the order of Melchizedek who ministers on our behalf in the Heavenly Sanctuary of which the earthly was only a copy based on better promises.

The whole sacrificial system is now fulfilled in Christ and His work in the heavenly Sanctuary of which the earthly was only a copy and pointed to. Today in the new covenant we go directly to Christ who ministers on our behalf in the heavenly Sanctuary, who is both out blood sacrifice for sin in order for us to receive Gods forgiveness and atonement for sin *1 John 1:9; 1 John 2:1-4. So under the new covenant, we are still bringing our sins to the Christ who is now our great high Priest based on better promises in the heavenly Sanctuary.

Nothing has changed here accept the process for the daily ministration of the Priesthood which is now fulfilled and continued in Christ as God's perfect sacrifice for sin and through Christ who makes intercession to God on our behalf as our great High Priest. The Great day of atonement and the Priestly ministration in the heavenly representing the cleansing of the heavenly Sanctuary and the removal of all the sins of Gods' people all through time and the final atonement and removal of all sin from the presence of God to the scapegoat (Satan) and the cutting off of those who did not repent of their sins at the second coming *Revelation 20:1-3; Revelation 22:11-15.

The scriptures you provided from Leviticus 17 are from the ones I quoted earlier as evidence (see Leviticus 17:1-16) that no sin offering was to be made outside of the earthly Sanctuary.
The scriptures read...

Leviticus 17:1-9
[1], And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
[2], Speak unto Aaron, and unto his sons, and unto all the children of Israel, and say unto them; This is the thing which the LORD hath commanded, saying,
[3], What man soever there be of the house of Israel, that killeth an ox, or lamb, or goat, in the camp, or that killeth it out of the camp,
[4], And bringeth it not unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, to offer an offering unto the LORD before the tabernacle of the LORD; blood shall be imputed unto that man; he hath shed blood; and that man shall be cut off from among his people:
[5], To the end that the children of Israel may bring their sacrifices, which they offer in the open field, even that they may bring them unto the LORD, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, unto the priest, and offer them for peace offerings unto the LORD.
[6], And the priest shall sprinkle the blood upon the altar of the LORD at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and burn the fat for a sweet savour unto the LORD.
[7], And they shall no more offer their sacrifices unto devils, after whom they have gone a whoring. This shall be a statute for ever unto them throughout their generations.
[8], And thou shalt say unto them, Whatsoever man there be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers which sojourn among you, that offereth a burnt offering or sacrifice,
[9], And bringeth it not unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, to offer it unto the LORD; even that man shall be cut off from among his people.

The reason why God commanded all sin offerings were made inside the Sanctuary and ministered by the Priesthood for forgiveness of sin by blood atonement before the Lord was because this was Gods' appointed way pointing not only to Christ but the work of Christ in the new covenant in the Heavenly Sanctuary that the Lord pitched and not man *Hebrews 8:1-6. This is because the Levitical Priesthood and the Sanctuary system and the laws for remission of sins in the daily and the yearly ministration of the Priesthood outlines Gods' work and plan of salvation for all mankind. Anyone therefore not obeying God and doing things their way instead of Gods' way are indeed sacrificing or worshiping devils.

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LoveGodsWord

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The sin offering during the year, and the sin offering from which blood was taken in on the Day of Atonement are very comparable, because they BOTH make atonement in the holy place, as opposed to your claim.

Lev 6:30 But no sin offering shall be eaten from which any blood is brought into the tent of meeting to make atonement in the Holy Place; it shall be burned up with fire.

Lev 16:17 No one may be in the tent of meeting from the time he enters to make atonement in the Holy Place until he comes out and has made atonement for himself and for his house and for all the assembly of Israel.

The above is simply repetition that does not support your view as shown already in a previous response to you which showed that taking your scriptures out of context in Leviticus 6:30 and Leviticus 16:17 and these scriptures do not support your view and once again your mixing up the daily ministration of the Priesthood with the yearly again, but allow me to show why from the scriptures, if it might be helpful.

The daily ministration of the Priesthood and blood atonement

Sin offerings for blood atonement for the daily ministration of the Priesthood for individual common people for specific sins was only ever done in the court yard where the alter of burnt offering was located. Blood atonement was sprinkled and applied to the alter of burnt offering and the remaining blood was poured out before the alter (see Leviticus 4:22, 25, 30-34). There was no blood atonement made inside the holy place for the individual sins of the individual common person who was seeking Gods' forgiveness of their sins through blood atonement in the daily ministration of the Priesthood.

The only time blood atonement was taken into the holy place in the daily ministration was when either a Priest or Gods' people as a collective whole had sinned against God. At this time blood was sprinkled against the outer veil of the holy place seven times and also applied inside the holy place to the horns of the alter of incense (see Leviticus 4:3, 6-7 and Leviticus 4:17-18). So for the common person all individual sin atonement by blood sacrifice was made outside the holy and most holy places in the courtyard in the daily ministration of the Priesthood for blood sacrifice and sin atonement unless it was a collective sin of all of God's people (e.g. idolatry) or the Priest. Leviticus 6:30 is only stating that blood sacrifice taken inside the holy place (e.g. for the sin of the Priest, or God's people collectively in the daily or for the Priest and Gods' people collectively in the yearly) was not to be eaten but burned. This is because normally all the sin offerings made outside in the courtyard could be eaten by the Priests (Leviticus 7:7).


The yearly ministration of the Priesthood and blood atonement


Unlike the daily ministration of the Priesthood the yearly ministration of the Priesthood on the great day of atonement was made through blood sacrifice for the Priest and his family (a bull) and Gods' people as a collective whole (one of the lot cast goats which was called the Lords goat) by bringing in the blood of these sin offerings into the most holy place, the holy place and the courtyard of the Sanctuary where these offerings were applied to the mercy seat in the most holy place, the alter of incense in the holy place and the alter of burnt offering in the courtyard. This was done as a final atonement and cleansing of the sanctuary from all the sins brought into Gods' sanctuary throughout the year by God's people for the removal of all sin from the presence of God. This was done by the Great high Priest as he laid his hands on the head of the scapegoat symbolically transferring all sin to the scapegoat which was then taken away by a strong man and led into the wilderness. (see Leviticus 16:2-34). During this time all of God's people were to be collectively in repentance of sin before God while the duties of the Great High Priest was being conducted.

..............

As shown from the scriptures above the context, subject matter and the application between the daily and yearly ministration of the Priesthood to not match your claims or support your use of Leviticus 6:30 and Leviticus 16:17 that blood atonement was made inside the holy place for sin and blood atonement for the common person unless it was collective known sin and that is not what we are talking about here. We are discussing the ministration of the Priesthood for daily and yearly blood atonement.

Doubtless you will say this is repetition. And it is because the text says it, and you just write essays about what you wish the text said so that you could support your statement that sin is transferred to the sanctuary.

Lev 6:30 But no sin offering shall be eaten from which any blood is brought into the tent of meeting to make atonement in the Holy Place; it shall be burned up with fire.

Lev 16:17 No one may be in the tent of meeting from the time he enters to make atonement in the Holy Place until he comes out and has made atonement for himself and for his house and for all the assembly of Israel.
More repetition that does not support your view shown why in a previous response. The Leviticus 6:30 and Leviticus 16:17 is not supportive of blood atonement being applied inside the holy place in the daily ministration of the Priesthood. Leviticus 6:30 is in context to what can be eaten and what cannot be eaten in regards to sin offerings from the Priest or collective specified sin of the congregation; blood atonement for sin for the daily ministration of the Priesthood for the individual common person were not brought inside the holy place under the daily ministration of the Priesthood unless it was a sin atonement from the Priest. If blood atonement was brought inside the holy place it was not to be eaten while Leviticus 16:17 is simply saying no one could be in the Sanctuary while the yearly ministration of the cleansing of the Sanctuary was being conducted. As posted earlier these scriptures do not support your view. Your disregarding scripture context and mixing up the application of the daily and yearly ministrations of the Priesthood in regards to the common people.
LoveGodsWord wrote: The daily ministration of the Priesthood is the bringing inside the Sanctuary, the sins of Gods' people
Your response here...

Completely the opposite of what the text says!
Your kind of micro-quoting me here without adding my posts context and supporting scriptures that disagree with your teachings. It is ok as I am happy to add these back in here. As posted earlier that ministration of the Levitical Priesthood included both a daily and a yearly ministration.

Leviticus 4:5-7; 18; Leviticus 4:27-35; Numbers 15; Leviticus 6:25-30 show that all animal sacrifices and sin offerings needed for blood atonement needed to be brought into the Sanctuary under ministration and intercession of the Levitical Priesthood in order for God's people to receive Gods' forgiveness while the yearly ministration of the Priesthood was for the final collective atonement of Gods' people and the removal of all sin that was brought into the Sanctuary throughout the year from the presence of God.

The yearly ministration also involved the cleansing of the Sanctuary and transferring of the sins of God's people to the scapegoat which was led by a strong man to the wilderness (Leviticus 16). These are of course all Gods' Words not my words dear friend that to disagree with your words that are not Gods' Word which you keep telling yourself.

The daily ministration of the Priesthoods sacrifice of sin and blood atonement were brought into the Sanctuary in order for God's people to seek and receive Gods' forgiveness of sins. That is what it means when it is said that the sin are transferred to the Sanctuary because it is in the Sanctuary that sins are atoned for with blood sacrifice under the Levitical Priesthood. As posted earlier, under the old covenant all sin was brought inside the Sanctuary to make atonement for God's people in the daily and yearly sacrifices for sins. Your seeking to put an interpretation on SDA teachings that are simply not there.
Gifts are brought to God, not contamination.
Your changing subject and topic matter here as there were many different kinds of offerings made inside the Sanctuary. My discussion with you has been primarily in regards to the sin and guilt offerings of blood sacrifice in the daily ministration and yearly ministrations of the Levitical Priesthood and there application to the new covenant and heavenly Sanctuary which outlines God plan of salvation of mankind from sin in the new covenant prior to the second coming.

This has been in context and in application to the daily ministration of the Priesthood and blood atonement for the remission (forgiveness/atonement) of sins for Gods' people in the in the daily ministration inside the Sanctuary and the yearly ministration of the Priesthood which is the cleansing of the Sanctuary and the removal of sin that has been brought into the Sanctuary throughout the year (daily) from the presence of God and transferred to the scapegoat. Of course there are other sacrifices. This of course though is an off tropic distraction to our discussion which is in regards to sin atonement through blood sacrifice under the daily and yearly ministrations of the Priesthood.
Holy blood is brought for atonement, not sins for defilement. Uncleanness is to be kept outside the camp, because God dwells in the midst--not every type of uncleanness and sin stored up right next to God's presence!
The sanctuary is defiled because it is in the midst of an unclean and sinful people.
Not exactly. According to the scriptures, blood atonement was made through animal sacrifice where the sin of the sinner is transferred in the daily ministration of the Priesthood to the sacrificial sin offering. This is done as the sinner lays their hands on the sin offerings confessing their sins and then personally takes the life of the animal sacrifice (wages of sin is death).

The blood that is collected by the Priest is them use for atonement or forgiveness of the sinners sin which is then sprinkled on the alter of burnt offering in the case of the common person and the rest of the blood poured our before the alter of burnt offering. The yearly sin offering taken inside the holy and most holy and courtyard is a collective sin offering for final atonement of all of God's people.

So the uncleanness or defilement of the people of God here in the context of the sin offerings as being discussed in the daily and yearly ministration of the Priesthood is in context to sin which causes the uncleanness and defilement of the Sanctuary which is why the Sanctuary is cleansed on the great day of atonement and the sins of God's people are transferred from the presence of God in the Sanctuary to the scapegoat and taken away by a strong man into the wilderness (Leviticus 16). It is sin that causes uncleanness and defilement in this context of the cleansing of the Sanctuary *see Isaiah 6:5-7; compare Matthew 15:7; 18-19; Isaiah 64:6 etc.
This is actually stated in the text. Lev 16:16 And he shall make an atonement for the holy place, because of the uncleanness of the children of Israel, and because of their transgressions in all their sins: and so shall he do for the tabernacle of the congregation, that remaineth among them in the midst of their uncleanness.
No your mixing up the daily and the yearly ministration of the Priesthood again. Leviticus 16 is in application to the yearly ministration of the Priesthood which is the cleansing and the removal of all the sins of the people of God from the Sanctuary and the presence of God.

A lot of your post is repetition here and has already been addressed in this post.

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LoveGodsWord

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LoveGodsWord said: Generally the daily ministration of the Priesthood does not bring the blood sacrifice into the holy places of the Sanctuary. This is done in the yearly ministration of the Priesthood on the great day of atonement . The daily ministration of the Priesthood has the sinner killing the animal sacrifice in the courtyard where blood is sprinkled on the alter of burnt offering in the case of the common person or the veil of the holy place if a Priest. The rest of the blood was poured out at the base of the alter of burnt offering (see Leviticus 4:5-7; 18; Leviticus 4:27-35; Numbers 15; Leviticus 6:25-30 already provided).
Your response here...
Agreed, and there it also made atonement, not transfer. Atonement is the cleansing of the sin or uncleanness, not the transfer.
No your simply wrong here but let me explain why from the scriptures again if it might be helpful. Transfer works like this... *Sinner commits sin>>>> *Sinner takes the sin offering into the Sanctuary and seeks out a Levite Priest>>>> *In the presence of the Priest and God the sinner transfers their sin to the sin offering (animal sacrifice) >>>> *The sinner then kills the sin offering in the presence of the Priest and the Lord >>>> *The Priest collects the blood of the sin offering and makes intercession for the sinner >>>> *The Priest makes atonement for the sinner by sprinkling the blood on the alter before God>>> *The sinner receives atonement or forgiveness of sin>>>> *The sin offering is then consumed by the Priest in the Sanctuary>>>> *The sin of the sinner is then transferred into the Sanctuary through the animal sacrifice that has died for his sin before the Lord through blood atonement (see Leviticus 4:5-7; 18; Leviticus 4:27-35; Numbers 15; Leviticus 6:25-30 already provided).

This is different to the final collective atonement and the cleansing of the Sanctuary in the yearly ministration of the High Priest on the great day of atonement which is the removal of all sin from the presence of God which is then transferred to the scapegoat *Leviticus 16.
And it was in two instances throughout the year, and it made atonement in the same way.
No. As already shown through the scriptures in a detailed scripture response your mixing up the daily and the yearly ministrations of the Priesthood. Both had a different purpose. The daily was for the daily forgiveness and atonement of specific sins of God's people, the Priest and Gods' people collectively. Where as the yearly was the cleansing of the Sanctuary from all of the sins of the people of God throughout the year and the removal of sin from the presence of God (Leviticus 16)
LoveGodsWord wrote: This included two sin offerings being the bull for the sins of the Great High Priest and his family *Leviticus 16:6-14 and the other being the Lords goat for the sins of the people (caste by lots for the Lords goat sacrifice and the scapegoat that was led into the wilderness) *Leviticus 16:7-8; Leviticus 16:15. Cleansing was then made for the holy place with the blood of the sin offerings *Leviticus 16:16-17 after this atonement was then made for the alter of bunt offering *Leviticus 16:18-19.
Your response here...
Yes, it did the same thing as the sin offerings throughout the year, it made atonement.
No and absolutely not. Blood administration inside the holy place and most holy place was not done in the daily ministration of the Priesthood for the common persons individual sins. This was only ever done as a collective atonement on the day of atonement not in the daily ministration unless there was a collective sin committed by Gods people as a whole. You may want to look into your view here a little further as it is not supported by scripture.

LoveGodsWord wrote: No, this is a yearly ministration of the Priesthood not the daily. Leviticus 16:16 does not indicate that the sin is cleansed because the sanctuary is in the midst of an unclean people. That does not even make any sense. The scripture says [16], And he shall make an atonement for the holy place, because of the uncleanness of the children of Israel, and because of their transgressions in all their sins: and so shall he do for the tabernacle of the congregation, that remains among them in the middle of their uncleanness.
Your response here...
Note, it is in the midst of their uncleanness--that is the way it is defiled. And the same thing happens in the one throughout the year and the once per year. Atonement is made. They are all pictures of Jesus' blood which cleanses, not transfers sin.
Note, the uncleanness is because of the sins that have been brought into the Sanctuary by Gods' people in the daily ministration of the Priesthood. It is sin that causes the uncleanness and defilement of the Sanctuary in context to sin atonement of the daily and the yearly ministrations of the Priesthood which is why the yearly atonement and cleansing of the Sanctuary is done and the removal or transfer of the sins of the people to the scapegoat. Not also in Leviticus 16:16 atonement is also for the holy place! You may want to consider here that according to the scriptures it is sin that causes uncleanness and defilement among Gods' people as shown for example in Isaiah 6:5-7; compare Matthew 15:7; 18-19; Isaiah 64:6 etc.
And no where does it say the sin offering transfers sin, but rather the sin offering atones for sin which is already there because of the sinful people.
Sorry I respectfully disagree. You have been provided many scriptures now from Leviticus 4-7 and Leviticus 16 showing that sin is transferred from the sinner to the sin offering and blood atonement is made inside the Sanctuary in the daily ministration of the Priesthood then the sins brought into the Sanctuary from God's people were cleansed and transferred from the Sanctuary to the scapegoat and removed from the presence of God in yearly ministration of the Priesthood.
You should consider what it says, rather than what it does not say. It never says the sin offering transfers sin. It does say the sin offering on the Day of Atonement and during the year makes atonement.
Your best off taking your own advice here as this is what I believe you are doing. I have only provided scripture and shown why your interpretation of the scriptures you have provided to not support your view and shown why I do not believe your claims in regards to the sins of God's people not being transferred into the Sanctuary from the sinner is not true as shown through the scriptures already in many posts now from Leviticus 4 to 7, 15-17 and 23. You have also been shown from the scriptures that your mixing up the daily ministration of the priesthood with the yearly cleansing of the Sanctuary and the removal of all the sins from God's people committed throughout the year from the presence of God to the scapegoat. Of course you are free to believe whatever you wish. That is between you and God. I am only showing from the scriptures why I do not agree with you.
And transfer without the sin offering was demonstrated in multiple texts.

Lev 15:28 But if she be cleansed of her issue, then she shall number to herself seven days, and after that she shall be clean.
Lev 15:29 And on the eighth day she shall take unto her two turtles, or two young pigeons, and bring them unto the priest, to the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.
Lev 15:30 And the priest shall offer the one for a sin offering, and the other for a burnt offering; and the priest shall make an atonement for her before the LORD for the issue of her uncleanness.
Lev 15:31 Thus shall ye separate the children of Israel from their uncleanness; that they die not in their uncleanness, when they defile my tabernacle that is among them.
Leviticus 15 here is in context to physical uncleanness and in this case is of a menstruating woman. We are in discussion about sin and the daily ministration of the Priesthood with the yearly ministration of the Priesthood in regards to sin atonement. The sin offering here is not for her menstruation it is for her sins and physical uncleanness. Sin as shown in context to both God's people and the Sanctuary also causes uncleanness and defilement as shown in Isaiah 6:5-7; compare Matthew 15:7; 18-19; Isaiah 64:6 etc which is why the Sanctuary is cleansed on the great day of atonement and the sins of God's people are transferred to the scapegoat in Leviticus 16.
The text never said it transfers sins. You say that. Ellen White says that. The text says it atones. The text says the blood cleanses: Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law cleansed with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. Jesus' blood doesn't transfer sin to God's presence. Jesus died to atone for sin.
No that is not true at all. According to the scriptures all sin is brought inside the Sanctuary in order to receive forgiveness of sin through blood atonement. You were also shown from the scriptures that all sin is transferred from the sinner to the the sin offering through blood atonement that is brought inside the Sanctuary which is ministered by a Levite Priest in the presence of God providing sin atonement through blood sacrifice at the alter of burnt offerings where the blood is poured out at the alter of bunt offering in the daily ministration of the Priesthood. You were also shown through the scriptures that in the yearly ministration of the Priesthood all sin was cleansed from the Sanctuary and transferred to the scapegoat and removed from the presence of God ready for the new year.

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LoveGodsWord

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Of course I have made an argument. The sin offerings made atonement and cleansing. They did not transfer sin to the sanctuary, which you and Ellen White claim, but the text does not claim.
Please forgive me but I respectfully disagree. You are wrong in regards to both the daily and the yearly ministrations of the Priesthood here. It was only the yearly ministration of the Priesthood that made atonement and cleansing of the Sanctuary and the removal of all the sins of God's people from the presence of God being transferred to the scapegoat (Leviticus 16). Scripture was already shared with you in this regard. It is the daily ministration of the Priesthood that brought all sin from God's people into the Sanctuary through the sin offerings and blood atonement which was also shown to you from the scriptures in Leviticus 4:5-7; 18; Leviticus 4:27-35; Numbers 15; Leviticus 6:25-30; Leviticus 17:1-9 already provided.
Of course I am considering it. The blood goes further into the sanctuary the greater then sin to be atoned for. For a single sin of a single individual it goes from the entrance of the tent to the altar. For a sin of the whole camp it has to be taken into the first apartment. For the sins of all the people throughout the year it goes into the Most Holy Place.
What I believe your not considering though is the difference between the two ministrations of the Priesthood between the daily and the yearly day of atonement and the removal of all sin from the presence of God.
What you are not considering is that NONE of them transfer sin TO God's presence. And you have presented ZERO texts that say they do.
Well that is NOT true. I guess that is something you wish to believe but it is NOT supported by scripture. As shown through the scriptures already ALL SIN is brought into the Sanctuary in the daily sin offerings through blood sacrifice. All sin is transferred from the sinner as he lays his hands on the head of the sin offering in the presence of the Priest and the Lord inside the Sanctuary and blood atonement is made by the sprinkling of the blood sacrifice to the alter of burnt offering and the remaining blood is poured out at the base of the alter.

The sinner then kills the sin offering and blood atonement is made by the Priest interceding on behalf of the sinner in the daily ministration of the Priesthood by the sprinkling of blood on the alter of burnt offering. Sin is therefore transferred from the sinner to the sin sacrifice and blood atonement is made in the Sanctuary throughout the year for all of God's people. So all sin is through the sin sacrifice transferred from the sinner to the Sanctuary. If this was not the case there would be no need for the cleansing of the Sanctuary on the great day of atonement and the removal of all sin from the presence of God.

You may want to consider here that the removal of all sin from the presence of God to the scapegoat is done in the exact same manner as the sinner to the sin offering. The hands of the Great high Priest are symbolically placed on the head of the scapegoat which transfers all the sins of Gods people to the scapegoat which is then removed from the Sanctuary by a strong man into the wilderness. This is the same process that sin is transferred from the sinner to the sin offering so blood atonement can be made.
They all atone and cleanse, because Jesus blood doesn't defile! The sin offering represents Jesus. Its flesh makes things holy. Its blood brings about cleansing. Jesus' blood atones for sin, it does not pile up all the sin around the dwelling place of a Holy God. Yes, and they made atonement in the holy place, just as on the Day of Atonement.
No not really now your confusing the old and new covenant administrations and different Priesthoods that needed to be changed as shown in Hebrews 7:1-25 and I think your missing the point of my argument again. It is not the blood that defiles the Sanctuary it is SIN that the blood atones for. If your argument was true there would be no need for the great day of atonement and yearly ministration of the Priesthood which is the final atonement of the collective sins of Gods' people, and the cleansing of all sin from the presence of God which is transferred to the scapegoat. Think about it. The yearly ministration is what your argument ignores and it is what shows why your argument is not supported in the scriptures.

According to the scripture, it was only the yearly ministration of the Priesthood that made atonement and cleansing of the Sanctuary and the removal of all the sins of God's people from the presence of God being transferred to the scapegoat (Leviticus 16) not the daily. Scripture was already shared with you in this regard. It is the daily ministration of the Priesthood that brought all sin from God's people into the Sanctuary through the sin offerings and blood atonement which was also shown to you from the scriptures in Leviticus 4:5-7; 18; Leviticus 4:27-35; Numbers 15; Leviticus 6:25-30; Leviticus 17:1-9 already provided while the yearly day of atonement was responsible for the cleansing of the Sanctuary and the removal of all sin from the presence of God (Leviticus 16).
It is for all the sins and uncleanness of all the people in the camp. It is a picture of the total atonement that Jesus brought about.

Lev 16:16 Thus he shall make atonement for the Holy Place, because of the uncleannesses of the people of Israel and because of their transgressions, all their sins. And so he shall do for the tent of meeting, which dwells with them in the midst of their uncleannesses.

All of the sin offerings are pictures of aspects of Jesus' one sacrifice. All cleanse, none transfer sin. Jesus' blood doesn't defile.
And here is the problem we agree the sacrifice of Jesus but your disregarding the ministrations of the Great high Priest in the daily and yearly atonement of sin and the removal of all sin from the presence of the Lord that the yearly points to. These are the two ministrations of Jesus not only as our true sin sacrifice once and for all but also the ministrations of Jesus as our great high Priest in the daily and yearly in the heavenly Sanctuary.

As posted earlier Jesus blood does not defile; sin does and this is what the Sanctuary is cleansed from on the day of atonement when all the sins of God's people are transferred from the presence of God to the scapegoat and all those who remain in unrepentant sin (Satan). *Revelation 20:1-3; Revelation 22:11-15. The only scripture you have provided here in Leviticus 16:16 is supporting exactly what has been shared with you here it is the atonement of the holy place because of the uncleanness of the children of Israel (the cleansing of the Sanctuary). No one is arguing that blood does not clean. Your confusing the ministrations of the Priesthood in the daily with the yearly. That is where our disagreement is.
LoveGodsWord wrote: No not really. Your conflating the different meanings and application to cleanness and uncleanness and being defiled or undefiled outside of scripture subject matter and context to the daily ministration of the Priesthood and the yearly ministration of the Priesthood.
Your response here...
I am noting that sin offerings cleanse and atone. That is what it says throughout.
Not really, because application is the ministrations are different. Sin offering do indeed atone and cleanse from sin from the sinner. This is the daily ministration of the Priesthood as the sinner brings their sins into the Sanctuary in order to receive Gods' forgiveness of sin. What you seem to be disregarding here is application to the yearly ministration of the Priesthood that that cleanses not just the sinner but all sin that has been brought into the Sanctuary throughout the year and the removal of all sin from the presence of God to the scapegoat *Leviticus 16.
Sin offerings were brought for uncleanness. And if they were not the person defiled the sanctuary.
Indeed but was are not discussing physical impurities. The uncleanness of the Sanctuary and why it needs cleaning is because of sin and the yearly ministration of the Priesthood in the great day of atonement cleanses the Sanctuary from all sin that has been brought into it by the Gods' people throughout the year and removes it from the presence of God to the scapegoat according to Leviticus 16.
Lev 15:28 But if she is cleansed of her discharge, she shall count for herself seven days, and after that she shall be clean.
Lev 15:29 And on the eighth day she shall take two turtledoves or two pigeons and bring them to the priest, to the entrance of the tent of meeting.
Lev 15:30 And the priest shall use one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering. And the priest shall make atonement for her before the LORD for her unclean discharge.
Lev 15:31 “Thus you shall keep the people of Israel separate from their uncleanness, lest they die in their uncleanness by defiling my tabernacle that is in their midst
Not a single scripture supports your view here. Leviticus 15:29-31 is talking about physical uncleanness of menstruating women and her defilement through menstruation and what must be done for her physical uncleanness after her time has been finished. This is not a reference to saying that only physical uncleanness is being represented in Gods' people. As shown in the application of the daily and yearly ministration of the Priesthood earlier sin is the cause of all uncleanness and defilement of the Sanctuary (see Isaiah 6:5-7; compare Matthew 15:7; 18-19; Isaiah 64:6 etc).
The red heifer also was a sin offering: Num 19:9 And a man who is clean shall gather up the ashes of the heifer and deposit them outside the camp in a clean place. And they shall be kept for the water for impurity for the congregation of the people of Israel; it is a sin offering.

And if a person was not cleansed it could lead to being cut off for defiling the sanctuary.

Num 19:20 “If the man who is unclean does not cleanse himself, that person shall be cut off from the midst of the assembly, since he has defiled the sanctuary of the LORD. Because the water for impurity has not been thrown on him, he is unclean.
You may want to go and revisit this one. Numbers 19:19-20 is in regards making ceremonial waters for purification of sins and uncleanness. It is not the same as a sin offering that is made inside the Sanctuary under the Levitical Priesthood in the daily and yearly ministration of sins. The waters of purification had a different purpose to sin offerings. They were for ceremonial and physical uncleanness.

Numbers 19:9 [9], And a man that is clean shall gather up the ashes of the heifer, and lay them up without the camp in a clean place, and it shall be kept for the congregation of the children of Israel for a water of separation: it is a purification for sin.

Numbers 19:20 [20], But the man that shall be unclean, and shall not purify himself, that soul shall be cut off from among the congregation, because he hath defiled the sanctuary of the LORD: the water of separation hath not been sprinkled upon him; he is unclean.

You may want to also consider Hebrews 9:13-14 which further supports what is being shared with you above...
It sounds like God was concerned about such uncleanness. I will take what the text says over your protestation by your own reasoning.
As posted earlier your conflating different subject matter and topics. Our discussion was in regards to the daily ministration of the Priesthood in the Sanctuary and the yearly ministration of the Priesthood in the Sanctuary and it's application to sin atonement through blood sacrifice and atonement for sin committed under the daily and the yearly Priesthood its' ministration.

We were not discussing ceremonial uncleanness caused by physical uncleanness but sin atonement by breaking Gods' law and uncleanness caused by sin. So your appeal to change the topic and subject matter of discussion is noted but simply a distraction to our topic of conversation. Taking what a text says out of context to our discussion does not really help your position in my view but only shows that your position is not supported by scripture.
Jesus' fulfillment surpassed the red heifer, which the author of Hebrews also mentioned, and did not consider it unimportant:
Heb 9:13 For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the sprinkling of defiled persons with the ashes of a heifer, sanctify for the purification of the flesh,
Heb 9:14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God.
Which is what I posted to you earlier but not relevant to our conversation. Of course the blood of Christ is better than any sacrifice for sin, purification and uncleanness that has never been a topic of disagreement now has it. So once again your seeking to make arguments no one is arguing about.

Take Care.
 
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Leaf473

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Hello Brothers,

I've been loosely following this exchange for the past 20 posts or so.

Is this the main issue?

The offering neutralizes or absorbs the sin in the building,

Or

The building neutralizes or absorbs the sin in the offering.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Hello Brothers,

I've been loosely following this exchange for the past 20 posts or so.

Is this the main issue?

The offering neutralizes or absorbs the sin in the building,

Or

The building neutralizes or absorbs the sin in the offering.

Hello Leaf,

Very simply, the discussion is about sin atonement in the two ministrations of the old covenant Priesthood in the daily and the yearly (Great day of atonement) and their application in the new covenant as Jesus as our true sacrifice for all sin once and for all and his new role as our great high Priest who now ministers on our behalf in the heavenly Sanctuary of which the earthly was only a copy in the new covenant (see Hebrews 7:1-25; Hebrews 8:1-13; Hebrews 9:1-27 and Hebrews 10:1-22). We are looking at the ministrations of the new Priesthood and the work that Jesus is now doing on our behalf in the heavenly Sanctuary and it's application to God's plan of salvation for all mankind.

The daily ministration shows that God's people bring their sins into the Sanctuary confessing their sins in the presence of the Priest and the Lord transferring it to the sin offering by putting their hands on the head of the animal sacrifice and confessing the sin. The animal sacrifice is then killed by the sinner in the presence of the Priest and the Lord in the Sanctuary at which time the Priest uses the blood of the sacrifice to make atonement for the sin of the sinner by sprinkling the blood of the sin offering for the common person on the alter of burnt offerings and pouring out the remaining blood at the base of the alter. The rest of the sacrifice can then be prepared by the Priest and eaten. (Leviticus 4:5-7; 18; Leviticus 4:27-35; Numbers 15; Leviticus 6:24-30; Leviticus 17:1-9)

The yearly ministration of the Priesthood is different though. The yearly ministration is the final atonement collectively (not individually like the daily unless it is a collective sin) for the Priest and Gods' people and the cleansing of the Sanctuary from all the sins that were brought into the Sanctuary from God's people throughout the year and the removal and transfer of all the sins of God's people throughout the year to the scapegoat which is then taken outside of the sanctuary to the wilderness by a strong man (Leviticus 16; Leviticus 23:23-30).

Take care.
 
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tall73

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Hello Brothers,

I've been loosely following this exchange for the past 20 posts or so.

Is this the main issue?

The offering neutralizes or absorbs the sin in the building,

Or

The building neutralizes or absorbs the sin in the offering.

Essentially yes, but because of its implications. And it leads up to a bigger headline.

Most Christians see Jesus as bearing our sins, and dying for them to atone for them. Jesus is the one who paid the penalty for us, our sin bearer, and by His stripes we are healed. The Lord laid on Him all our iniquity etc.

But Adventist see Jesus role as transferring sins from one place to the next until finally transferring them to Satan.

In other words, in the Adventist view, Satan is the one who bears the sins of the people of God. This is expressed by Ellen White in the Great Controversy.

It was seen, also, that while the sin offering pointed to Christ as a sacrifice, and the high priest represented Christ as a mediator, the scapegoat typified Satan, the author of sin, upon whom the sins of the truly penitent will finally be placed. When the high priest, by virtue of the blood of the sin offering, removed the sins from the sanctuary, he placed them upon the scapegoat. When Christ, by virtue of His own blood, removes the sins of His people from the heavenly sanctuary at the close of His ministration, He will place them upon Satan, who, in the execution of the judgment, must bear the final penalty.

To me this is completely missing the point of what Jesus did. He didn't just shuffle sins around. He died for them and paid the penalty.

1Pe 2:24 He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed.

Satan is sinful, and cannot atone for anyone else. He will be punished in the lake of fire for his own sin (including temptation of others), but each is still responsible for their own sin. The wicked still go into the lake of fire for their sin. Satan being the instigator of sin does not excuse them. And the righteous would suffer that fate except for Jesus taking on the penalty of death for us, and redeeming us. We have a substitute, which is what the sin offering pointed to. He didn't just transfer sins, He died for them and paid the price.

Rom 5:8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Rom 5:9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.

The idea of Satan bearing our penalty detracts from what Christ did.

Now, in addition to that larger picture, the issue you pinpoint is really a key piece of evidence in deciding between two totally different views of the sanctuary "system", with a lot of related questions involved. So I will try to spell some of that out in the next post.
 
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tall73

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The offering neutralizes or absorbs the sin in the building,

Or

The building neutralizes or absorbs the sin in the offering.

As I mentioned this is a key piece of evidence in two totally different views of what is happening.

So let me start with where the two systems agree. Both see the sanctuary as being, for lack of a better term, contaminated by the sins of the Israelites.

But the timing and means of that contamination differ in the two views. As I spelled out to you in response to your earlier question my view is that sin contaminates by its presence. Hence the sanctuary is stated to need cleansing because it dwells in the midst of the sins and uncleanness of the Israelites. And we see Scriptures that describe abominations committed defiling the sanctuary, etc. So in my view contamination happens when the sin is committed, because the sanctuary is in the midst of the sinful people. Their sin or uncleanness is upon them. They "bear" their sin as the text says. The sin offering is then the solution to this contamination, making atonement, or paying the price of the sin, cleansing it with the blood.

In LGW's view the means of sin getting to the sanctuary is the sin offering. In other words, he sees the sin offering making atonement by transferring the sin from the sin offering to the sanctuary, as a sort of holding tank. Thereby it separates the person from the sin. But then the sins of the people throughout the year which are transferred to the sanctuary wait until the Day of Atonement for all the sins to be removed from the sanctuary, placed on the high priest, and then placed on the scapegoat.

So yes, a key difference is what we see the blood of the sin offering doing. I see it as cleansing already present defilement from the person, and the sanctuary.

He sees it as transferring the defilement to the sanctuary for later cleansing.

Now the place where we both see there is transfer is from the person to the sin offering, when the hands are laid on it. So we both see sin being placed on the offering. And this is in line with Jesus bearing our sins.

But my view is that the sin offering is a picture of the atonement of Jesus, and that the death of the offering pays the price of that sin, and then the blood, which is holy, makes atonement and cleansing. It does not carry the contagion of sin into the sanctuary, because it represents Jesus, and His blood shed for us, which does not carry sin, but cleanses sin by His death.

His view is that the sin offering blood carries the contagion of sin to the sanctuary for storage until the Day of Atonement where that sin, stored up throughout the year, is then removed by the rites of the Day of Atonement.

From a big picture, systemic standpoint, the Adventist view does not make sense to me. God continually wants to remove contamination from the sanctuary, whether by sin or uncleanness. This means either purifying the person when possible in the case of uncleanness, or if they are not cleansed when possible, cutting them off. In cases where cleansing was not possible (leper still having leprosy, etc.) the person had to go out of the camp.

The same was seen in the text I referenced with blood shed where the sin contaminated the land in which God dwelt in their midst. And the person had to be killed to make atonement with his own blood to remove the defilement of bloodshed, because no substitute offering was accepted for murder, as it was a capital offense. God does not want unresolved sin contaminating His dwelling place. But the Adventist system has all of the sins piled up there.

(Now interestingly we see in the case of David and in Ezekiel 18, etc. that God still forgave murder and adultery, also a capital offense, but no sacrifice is referenced).

Now at the more detailed level I have noted that LGW has not pointed to any text that says that the sins are transferred from the sin offering to the sanctuary.

He has said this is seen in bringing the sacrifices to the sanctuary, but the rationale given for that in the text is that they bring it there because it is God's sanctuary, His dwelling place, and they are to bring gifts to Him. And they are not to offer sacrifices elsewhere to demons (ie other gods, idols).

The sacrifices are brought to the sanctuary, but not to transfer, but to make atonement. I see this atonement as paying the price of the sin by the death, and the blood cleansing, as referenced above. And LGW sees this atonement as a multi-stage transfer process going from the sin offering, to the temple, being pulled from the temple on the Day of Atonement, then placed on Satan.

The reason the one key issue you referenced figures in so much, is that it is looking at which overall model is accurate.

If the sin offerings during the year are completely different than the sin offering on the Day of Atonement, such that these sin offerings during the year store up sin in the sanctuary, and the Day of Atonement sin offering then removes them, then we would expect to see that reflected in the language.

We would expect to see some statement that the sin is transferred from the sin offering to the sanctuary. But we do not see that. Instead we see over and over that the blood atones.

But the reason I posted a couple of texts so often is that in some sin offerings during the year (for the anointed priest, or a single sin of the whole camp, etc.) the blood went further into the sanctuary than usual. As has been noted by both LGW and me the sin offering for the common person was killed by the person, but the priest took the blood to minister it for atonement at the altar, which is in the courtyard. But for certain sin offerings (a greater offense involving the anointed priest or the whole camp), the blood was taken inside the sanctuary.

Because there is a text that describes what that blood taken into the sanctuary does it is a key piece of evidence in deciding whether the sin offerings remove sin from the sanctuary, or transfer sin to the sanctuary. In other words, it is a test case to see which system explains it better.

It is also helpful because it is speaking of the same thing Ellen White referenced in her comment I quoted earlier:

As the sins of the people were anciently transferred, in figure, to the earthly sanctuary by the blood of the sin-offering, so our sins are, in fact, transferred to the heavenly sanctuary by the blood of Christ. 4SP pg. 266

So Ellen White sees Jesus' blood as transferring or transporting sin into the sanctuary, whereas I see it the blood as cleansing sin from the sanctuary.

The text in Lev. 6 shows what happens when blood goes in, and we can see what is pictured.

Lev 6:30 But no sin offering shall be eaten from which any blood is brought into the tent of meeting to make atonement in the Holy Place; it shall be burned up with fire.

So what happens is atonement is made IN the holy place. It doesn't state transfer of sin. But more to the point, it is the same thing that is seen when the blood goes into the sanctuary on the Day of Atonement:


Lev 16:17 No one may be in the tent of meeting from the time he enters to make atonement in the Holy Place until he comes out and has made atonement for himself and for his house and for all the assembly of Israel.

In both cases atonement is made in the holy place. So LGW's assertion that one offering transfers sin to the sanctuary, and the other pulls it out, is not supported by what is described as happening.


And Leviticus 6 also notes that the sin offering is so holy that when its flesh touches something it doesn't transfer sin, but transfers holiness:


Lev 6:25 “Speak to Aaron and his sons, saying, This is the law of the sin offering. In the place where the burnt offering is killed shall the sin offering be killed before the LORD; it is most holy.
Lev 6:26 The priest who offers it for sin shall eat it. In a holy place it shall be eaten, in the court of the tent of meeting.
Lev 6:27 Whatever touches its flesh shall be holy, and when any of its blood is splashed on a garment, you shall wash that on which it was splashed in a holy place.

This makes sense to me from both a detail view, the blood makes atonement, not transfer, it conveys holiness, not contamination. And it makes sense from a big picture view because the sin offering represents Jesus who died for us, and His blood does not carry sin into the sanctuary, but cleanses and makes holy. He paid the price for sin. He made atonement for the broken law.


Now I should also point out what this means from a systemic point of view. Adventists see sin being transferred like this:


sinner-----sin offering----high priest----sanctuary----high priest---scapegoat.

Which they see as translating to this:

sinner---Jesus----Jesus----sanctuary in heaven----Jesus----Satan.

Where as I see sin on the person contaminating everything in the camp, including the sanctuary. And the sin is transferred from the person to the sin offering. That is the only transfer. Then the sin offering dies for the sins, and its blood brings holiness and cleansing, both to the holy place, and to the person.

And the fulfillment of that would be sins are placed on Jesus, who dies for them, and presents His sacrifice before the Father, which then cleanses sin, paying the price, both in the person, and atoning for sin in the universe.

In the Adventist view the sins spoken over the scapegoat are those that were transferred around, to the sanctuary, then back out of the sanctuary, and then onto the scapegoat.

But in my view all of these are just different pictures of Jesus' atonement, and each sin offering represents a part of that.

The sin offering for the individual pictures the cost of each sin, as the life had to be given for it, and the animal died for their sin.

The sin offering on the Day of Atonement where the blood went into the sanctuary shows that Jesus' one Sacrifice and presentation before God were for all sin.

The scapegoat also has all the sins placed on it because both it and the Lord's goat are said to be a sin offering. It illustrates yet another aspect of the work of Christ in atonement. I will spell that out in the next post.
 
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