Mandatory Vaccination against Covid

[mindlight]

While I vote that vaccines should not be mandatory from government, I do recognize the valid and rightful authority of a private business to run it's own business and make its own rules.

So, when Disney chose many months ago to require vaccinations, because it's a business where that can help, and then the Florida Governor tried to make that illegal for Disney, the Florida Governor was in the wrong.

Disney has the right to run it's own business as it sees fit.

Same for cruise ship lines, etc.

Floridians should have a recall election on that bad Governor.

Yes, it is not good economics to employ anti-vaxxers. They have a greater probability of infecting your workforce, thereby reducing productivity, and they could also thereby inadvertently even kill some of the more experienced key workers by passing on the disease.

 

[mindlight]

Never mandatory in terms of government forcing it on the general public. They should be good enough that people want to be vaccinated rather than forced.

The levels of hospitalization and death are about ten times higher proportionately among the unvaccinated. It is rare if a vaccinated person dies of covid unless they already had underlying conditions. Having a body trained to fight the virus means you fight it off sooner if it comes visiting thereby reducing the reproduction rate of the disease and the potential number of weak and vulnerable people it could infect.

As you see in the link. Unvaccinated are far more likely to die and by becoming Petri dishes for the virus to generate new variants also.

How do death rates from COVID-19 differ between people who are vaccinated and those who are not?

 

[mindlight]

Reading these stats its important to realize that they record people who died with COVID. It does not equal to people who died because of COVID.

My uncle died of covid but also with underlying conditions. He would have died in the next decade from one or other of these other things. But the fact is it was covid that pushed him over the edge and deprived his family of those extra ten years with him and indeed of even being able to say goodbye to him on his death bed. He died alone. This argument does not work because hospital wards are full of covid patients, because they come with various surges. It is covid that hospitalizes them and kills them.

 

[mindlight]

No, there should never be a "one for all" approach to vaccines. Everyone is different -immune systems, conditions, etc.

Also, natural immunity is never in the equation. Why is that?? They talk about science but gloss over the fact that for some, natural immunity can last for years in some cases.
Maybe not for everyone but such is the case is for the vaccine as well, which is why in the US we are seeing everyone eligible for boosters at this point. So that's why they should be testing for antibodies. They don't want to encourage that because many would see that they have them already and don't even know it.

Also,it's very disheartening to see that no one is promoting people how to build up your immune system as well which has always been the case in the past. Talk of preventive measures has been thrown to the way side and it's the vaccine or nothing else. That should give anyone pause and question why is that the case? It was before the vaccine came out.

Not here to debate (been there, done that) but to post my honest feelings. No one should have control over what we put into our bodies. And resorting to fear tactics over a virus with 99 percent survival rate, especially for our younger generation is ridiculous.

Sorry for the rambled post.

I do agree that building up strong immune systems should be a priority. In a sense fat people have made themselves more vulnerable with a lack of exercise, junk food addicts could eat better. This disease attacks people with weakened immune systems and so hits older people more heavily than the young. In an age where the generation gap has grown so large many young people do not care if grandad dies but a fully functioning community requires that the strong lookout for the weak and take the necessary precautions which in this case involves masks, vaccines, and social distancing. But we should all be encouraged by this pandemic to develop better exercise, nutrition, sleep and stress handling regimes.

 

[chevyontheriver]

As you see in the link. Unvaccinated are far more likely to die and by becoming Petri dishes for the virus to generate new variants also.

Are you telling me I should WANT to be vaccinated or that I should BE FORCED to be vaccinated? I'm not really clear on which of those you are telling me.

 

[mindlight]

While I am generally pro-vaccine, I do NOT in any way whatsoever believe that the government should be making mandates. Not because I believe that the vaccinations are bad (get it if you can), but because it goes against what this country (U.S. in my case) is all about. It's government overreach at best and outright tyranny at worst.

Personally, I believe vaccination rates in many places would be a lot better than they are now if it weren't for the government politicizing it and trying to strong-arm citizens. Education, availability, reduction of fear-mongering, and making it *less* political would have been better strategies.

Too late now though. They've long past made that bed and created a huge resentment across the country that will probably have dire effects in 2022.

Tell a rebel to do something and he will do the opposite. But tell a rebel to do the right thing is different. This is killing people.

 

[mindlight]

Are you telling me I should WANT to be vaccinated or that I should BE FORCED to be vaccinated? I'm not really clear on which of those you are telling me.

This link is saying there is no case against vaccination and I am saying that in the end, anti-vaxxers should be forced to be vaccinated for the sake of the wider community. If they cannot understand this having already been given a decent interval to do the right thing at their own initiative and convenience.

Ultimately anti-vaxxers without strong medical reasons should be treated much the same as criminals who break the law - it is that serious.

 

[mindlight]

I am a nurse and I worked through Covid at its peak with no vaccine and now we are being mandated to get it as healthcare workers if we want our bread and butter. I was extremely hesitant to get it because it does seem like the mark…

However, I chose to get it after my father died from Covid… the truth is that it is very real and many people prayed for a solution to this pandemic and we got a vaccine…

We as Christians are to look after one another.. my rebellious heart and my desire to understand things my way can not be the reason why my child has no mother.

We can be hit harder next time around and this vaccine may be our lords saving grace when it does.

We prayed and we got a vaccine, sorry to hear about your father.

 

[mindlight]

That's nice.
My mother died because of adverse reactions to the Covid vaccine. My son-in-law now has heart trouble since he was vaccinated. One of my colleagues suffered a major stroke immediately after his vaccination and another colleague has myocarditis as a result of his vaccination and now relies on medication to keep from having a heart attack.

Sorry to hear about these things. It sounds like there were a lot of underlying conditions here that doctors failed to account for before vaccinating. My family had 6 cases and one death. But 4 of those were vaccinated and shrugged it off in a week. One even ran a half-iron man 3 weeks after getting it. Vaccination does make a difference as the statistics make very clear. Anecdotal evidence does not overthrow facts.

 

[mindlight]

Nope. Anyone can be a carrier. The vaccine doesn't stop the virus. So we should have freedom to choose for ourselves.

You seem to misunderstand what vaccines do. They train your body to defeat an enemy. Your approach is like saying it is my choice to go to war without a rifle. In an army, you would be court-martialled before reaching the battlefield and if you did reach it the enemy would shoot you saving the army the trouble. A virus as deadly and efficient as the delta variant may still get access to your land but it is what happens next that defines the war. Vaccinated people blow it to pieces and the unvaccinated become festering Petri dishes of new variants.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Ultimately anti-vaxxers without strong medical reasons should be treated much the same as criminals who break the law - it is that serious.

Just wanted to be clear what you were trying to tell me. What would Patrick Henry say?

 

[JulieB67]

Ultimately anti-vaxxers without strong medical reasons should be treated much the same as criminals who break the law - it is that serious.

Wow. As I said in my earlier post, we are all "different"- different bodies, different conditions, different immune systems. There should never be a "one for all" vaccine/shot. And some younger people are really at risk for myocarditis.

We are still talking about a virus whose survival rate is 99 percent. One of the reasons people are so upset and in such a state of panic is because you are seeing the numbers posted every day, etc. These type of people with underlying conditions have always passed away in the past, with flu, etc. The thing is, you don't see the numbers posted in the news everyday. That way you in the past have always went about your business never knowing any different. But of course we see them posted every day and so on.

How many people do you think have survived this virus?? You'll never see those numbers because they don't care.
My last cold was worst than when I had Covid. And I'm supposed to be in the high risk group and I only had it about a week. (with natural antibodies still 15 months later after testing them) That's the case for most people who catch it. And don't think I'm downplaying the deaths, I'm not. But again, many of these people already had underlying conditions. I've had friends and family that have gotten Covid as well and for most it was fine without the vaccination.

Anyone can be a carrier, whether you're vaxxed or not. And most are not antivaxxers, I was in healthcare for years and had many vaccinations.

But my biggest thing now is, you could be fully vaccinated but not even fully immunized. You can't know if you're protected unless you have your antibodies tested. Dr Hooman Noorchasm who is an immunologist said there are some walking around vaccinated and they might not even have the antibodies, thinking they are safe and they're not. He said some vaccines even have a spoil rate and people have no clue. How can you know you're body is prepared without testing for antibodies?? You don't. So with no one encouraging them, this gives me great pause. Why would someone not want to know if they have antibodies are not? Many have them but do not know because they may have been asymptomatic at the time they've had it. And again, vaccinated people need to have theirs checked as well. Have you?

And as a Christian I would think you realize that some people would rather rely on their own God given immune system. He designed it very well. That's why I had antibodies still 15 months later after catching Covid.
Again, we know that some have underlying conditions and by all means if someone wants to get vaccinated, that's their choice. And anyone else that chooses to do so but to take that choice away from others is totally unethical and immoral.

Please be gentle and respectful

Somehow I don't think calling people who don't want to be given the shot criminals is either gentle or respectful.

 

[mindlight]

Wow. As I said in my earlier post, we are all "different"- different bodies, different conditions, different immune systems. There should never be a "one for all" vaccine/shot. And some younger people are really at risk for myocarditis.

In terms of vaccination programs you exaggerate differences. We are all human and made in Gods image and healthy people are pretty much the same the world over when it comes to immunity from viruses. You define the difference in terms of humanly important but statistically irrelevant predispositions to certain problems.

We are still talking about a virus whose survival rate is 99 percent. One of the reasons people are so upset and in such a state of panic is because you are seeing the numbers posted every day, etc. These type of people with underlying conditions have always passed away in the past, with flu, etc. The thing is, you don't see the numbers posted in the news everyday. That way you in the past have always went about your business never knowing any different. But of course we see them posted every day and so on.

1% of all Americans is 3.3 million people. Is that an acceptable number of deaths to you then? This virus differs from other infections by its speed of reproduction that is cross-seasonal in scope. It is filling up hospitals in a way that these other illnesses you mention have not been. The rate of death in the 70 plus age group is nearer 12-13%. It takes out the weak and this I am all right Jack mentality and I will survive it without a vaccine is contributing to this and to the anti-vaxxer movement misinformation campaign.

How many people do you think have survived this virus?? You'll never see those numbers because they don't care.
My last cold was worst than when I had Covid. And I'm supposed to be in the high risk group and I only had it about a week. (with natural antibodies still 15 months later after testing them) That's the case for most people who catch it. And don't think I'm downplaying the deaths, I'm not. But again, many of these people already had underlying conditions. I've had friends and family that have gotten Covid as well and for most it was fine without the vaccination.

I get it you are fit and strong and who cares if you spread it to weak people who do not have your super immune system. I am pretty sure I would have survived it also but not sure with all my family.

Anyone can be a carrier, whether you're vaxxed or not. And most are not anti-vaxxers, I was in healthcare for years and had many vaccinations.

The hospitals are full of unvaccinated people and people who were infected by unvaccinated people in the main. Vaccination is about training your body to fight this. Vaccinated people beat this faster than unvaccinated people basically and do not stretch overstretched hospital capacity or die of this. This, in turn, reduces the reproduction speed of the virus and lessens the chance of people acquiring the various multiple long terms effects of having long covid. The statistics I have seem suggest that anything up to 10% of people who have covid have more long term side effects from the illness and not fully recovered for months later.

But my biggest thing now is, you could be fully vaccinated but not even fully immunized. You can't know if you're protected unless you have your antibodies tested. Dr Hooman Noorchasm who is an immunologist said there are some walking around vaccinated and they might not even have the antibodies, thinking they are safe and they're not. He said some vaccines even have a spoil rate and people have no clue. How can you know you're body is prepared without testing for antibodies?? You don't. So with no one encouraging them, this gives me great pause. Why would someone not want to know if they have antibodies are not? Many have them but do not know because they may have been asymptomatic at the time they've had it. And again, vaccinated people need to have theirs checked as well. Have you?

The vaccine does train your t cells and add antibodies. But over time this benefit fades. This is why booster shots are now important. The research on whether the body still remembers its immunity from a shot a year ago is something still ongoing. But there is a risk it seems without the booster. The stats I shared earlier also show that while 10 times as many unvaccinated are getting sick and being hospitalized some vaccines seem better than others. The new mRNA vaccines are the best.

And as a Christian I would think you realize that some people would rather rely on their own God-given immune system. He designed it very well. That's why I had antibodies still 15 months later after catching Covid.
Again, we know that some have underlying conditions and by all means if someone wants to get vaccinated, that's their choice. And anyone else that chooses to do so but to take that choice away from others is totally unethical and immoral.

Christian does not equal individualism. You live in a world where your decisions impact others. A communal response to invasion by an enemy is to fight that enemy regardless of the pacifism of a minority.

Somehow I don't think calling people who don't want to be given the shot criminals is either gentle or respectful.

I am trying to be as gentle and respectful as possible without screaming: IT IS THIS SERIOUS!

 

[renniks]

You seem to misunderstand what vaccines do. They train your body to defeat an enemy. Your approach is like saying it is my choice to go to war without a rifle. In an army, you would be court-martialled before reaching the battlefield and if you did reach it the enemy would shoot you saving the army the trouble. A virus as deadly and efficient as the delta variant may still get access to your land but it is what happens next that defines the war. Vaccinated people blow it to pieces and the unvaccinated become festering Petri dishes of new variants.

Nonsense. Vaccinated people still spread it. And the vaccine doesn't do squat against delta.

 

[renniks]

The hospitals are full of unvaccinated people and people who were infected by unvaccinated people in the main. Vaccination is about training your body to fight this. Vaccinated people beat this faster than unvaccinated people basically and do not stretch overstretched hospital capacity or die of this

False. Vaccinated are still dying. And lots of unvaccinated get over it quickly.

 

[prodromos]

Yes, it is not good economics to employ anti-vaxxers. They have a greater probability of infecting your workforce, thereby reducing productivity, and they could also thereby inadvertently even kill some of the more experienced key workers by passing on the disease.

This is completely false. Vaccinated people have been found to be carrying many times the viral load without symptoms than their unvaccinated brethren. You have this completely backwards.

 

[prodromos]

Vaccinated people blow it to pieces and the unvaccinated become festering Petri dishes of new variants.

It is actually the vaccinated who are the festering petri dishes.

 

[JulieB67]

I get it you are fit and strong

I am far from fit and strong, that was my point. I am in the high risk group. But my immune system still did it's job, something God trained/formed it to do. And again, I'm not talking about everyone else, I'm making decisions for myself and body. I should not have to put something in my body so someone else can feel better. Vaxxed or not, all can spread it. We all should have that right to make our own personal choices when it comes to medical decisions. If someone else feels the need to be vaccinated, that's their choice.

IT IS THIS SERIOUS!

Again, have you had your antibodies tested? And are you posting threads asking if people have had them tested as well as threads like this? If not, than it can't be that serious for you.

 

[mama2one]

We all should have that right to make our own personal choices when it comes to medical decisions.

did your parents have you vaccinated before attending school?
if people had SEVERAL vaccines before starting school, why so many complaints now re ONE vaccine?


Immunization Exemptions: The Rules & Laws Explained

"The measles outbreaks in 2019 are among the worst in decades. The CDC has reported multiple outbreaks, including clusters in New York, Washington state, Texas, Illinois, and California. Many of the people who got sick lived in communities where there were groups of unvaccinated people."

"Vaccines help children avoid serious diseases. High vaccination rates also protect people who can't get vaccinated because they're too young or they have a medical condition that would make vaccines unsafe for them. This is called "herd immunity."

At least 90% to 95% of people in one area need to be vaccinated to protect the whole community against diseases. In one study, a 5% drop in measles, mumps, rubella (MMR) vaccine coverage led to a threefold increase in measles cases each year. This is because even kids who have been vaccinated may be at a small risk if there is a child in the community who has the illness."

 

[keith99]

To me it depends on what is meant by manditory.

If you have to be vaccinated to work for a company (including any governmental organization), to go to school or to gain entry to a place of business then absolutely yes I am in favor of manditory vaccinations. I also think insurance companies should be allowed to require vaccination or at least charge a very different fee for insurance. The same for second level of employeement. E.g. government or other businesses being able to require all contractors to be vaccinated. And of course requiring vaccination for all those in the military, which should be a no brainer and near the top of the list. Being vaccinated for all diseases that could be encountered if deployed has been standard for decades, longer than most of us have been alive. And Covid is apt to be an issue in any deployment.

If instead one means sending in the National Guard and actually forcing people to be vaccinated, then no.