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Which comes first repentance or forgiveness?

New Testament Christian

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Repentance in Acts 17:30 isnt a choice God gives or offer, but Gods commandment.

Men choose to obey Gods commandments or deny them.
How many have chosen to disobey Jesus' commandments in His gospel and not be baptized?

Mark 16:15-16
And He said to them, Go into all the world and preach the GOSPEL to every creature.
He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned
.

Just as God gives us a choice to believe and be baptized. God gives us choice to obey His commandment to repent,

Revelation 2:4-5

Nevertheless I have this against you, that you have left your first love.
Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place-unless you repent.

The church of Ephesus in Revelation chapter 2, is warned by Jesus to repent because they
have left there first love(Jesus).

Jesus gives them an ultimatum. Repent or else.

That is a choice God is giving to christians at the church in Ephesus.

Jesus commands them to repent but that does not mean they will.
They must chose to repent or else face the consequences of not repenting.

The consequence of not repenting is this churches lampstand will be removed by Jesus.

If commandments like Acts 17:30 are not a choice mankind makes on his own.
Then God does not give man free will. We are His slaves that have no choice but to obey or disobey Him. Predetermined by God. Therefore if some are preselected to repent and some are chosen by God not to repent,

Then men who have been given no choice by God to repent are not responsible for not repenting.
God is responsible for their sin of not repenting for He has not chosen them to repantance.


Acts 17:30 teaches all men everywhere are to repent.
God has chosen all to come to repentance. Calvinism is error. Calvinism makes God guilty of mans sins. Not man himself. According to calvinism we cannot choose. God chooses for us.
 
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New Testament Christian

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In salvation which comes first - repentance and turning to God, or God's word of forgiveness?

In every conversion in the new testament, covenant.
Folks always believed first then repented.

The very first gospel sermon of Jesus Christ preached by the Holy Spirit baptized apostle Peter.

Acts 2:36-38
36 Therefore let this house of Isreal know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.

37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Verse 37 they have Faith first.

38 Then Peter said to them, Repent and let everyone of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
First the had faith/believed in verse 37. Then in verse 38 they repented and were baptized.

Acts chapter 3 They first believed then were told to repent by Peter,
Acts 3:16-17;19
16 And His name through FAITH in His name, has made this man strong, whom you see and know. Yes, the Faith which comes through Him has given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.
This lame man was healed because he had faith first.

17 Yet now brethren, I know that you did it in ignorance, as did also your rulers.
Those who saw the lame man healed by faith in Jesus now also have faith.
Peter now tells them to repent,

19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord.
Now here is proof that these here have already been taught that Jesus Christ is who they should have faith in,

Verse 20
And that He may send Jesus Christ, WHO WAS PREACHED TO YOU BEFORE

Faith always precedes repentance in salvation.




 
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Brightfame52

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God calls ALL men everywhere to repent, not some but All.
Acts 17:30-31 Truly these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent,
because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained, HE HAS GIVEN ASSURANCE OF THIS TO ALL by raising Him from the dead.

The Bible teaches God calls All men everywhere to repent.
Not a select few.
No He calls all the regenerate elect everywhere to repent.
 
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Brightfame52

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Men choose to obey Gods commandments or deny them.
How many have chosen to disobey Jesus' commandments in His gospel and not be baptized?

Mark 16:15-16
And He said to them, Go into all the world and preach the GOSPEL to every creature.
He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned
.

Just as God gives us a choice to believe and be baptized. God gives us choice to obey His commandment to repent,

Revelation 2:4-5

Nevertheless I have this against you, that you have left your first love.
Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place-unless you repent.

The church of Ephesus in Revelation chapter 2, is warned by Jesus to repent because they
have left there first love(Jesus).

Jesus gives them an ultimatum. Repent or else.

That is a choice God is giving to christians at the church in Ephesus.

Jesus commands them to repent but that does not mean they will.
They must chose to repent or else face the consequences of not repenting.

The consequence of not repenting is this churches lampstand will be removed by Jesus.

If commandments like Acts 17:30 are not a choice mankind makes on his own.
Then God does not give man free will. We are His slaves that have no choice but to obey or disobey Him. Predetermined by God. Therefore if some are preselected to repent and some are chosen by God not to repent,

Then men who have been given no choice by God to repent are not responsible for not repenting.
God is responsible for their sin of not repenting for He has not chosen them to repantance.


Acts 17:30 teaches all men everywhere are to repent.
God has chosen all to come to repentance. Calvinism is error. Calvinism makes God guilty of mans sins. Not man himself. According to calvinism we cannot choose. God chooses for us.
Jesus gives repentance and they repent.
 
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New Testament Christian

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Men chose to obey Gods commandments or deny them.
How many have chosen to disobey Jesus' commandments in His gospel and not be baptized?

Mark 16:15-16
And He said to them, Go into all the world and preach the GOSPEL to every creature.
He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned
.

Just as God gives us a choice to believe and be baptized. God gives us choice to obey His commandment to repent,

Revelation 2:4-5

Nevertheless I have this against you, that you have left your first love.
Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place-unless you repent.

The church of Ephesus in Revelation chapter 2, is warned by Jesus to repent because they
have left there first love(Jesus).

Jesus gives them an ultimatum. Repent or else.

That is a choice God is giving to christians at the church in Ephesus.

Jesus commands them to repent but that does not mean they will.
They must chose to repent or else face the consequences of not repenting.

The consequence of not repenting is this churches lampstand will be removed by Jesus.

If commandments like Acts 17:30 are not a choice mankind makes on his own.
Then God does not give man free will. We are His slaves that have no choice but to obey or disobey Him. Predetermined by God. Therefore if some are preselected to repent and some are chosen by God not to repent,

Then men who have been given no choice by God to repent are not responsible for not repenting.
God is responsible for their sin of not repenting for He has not chosen them to repantance.


Acts 17:30 teaches all men everywhere are to repent.
God has chosen all to come to repentance. Calvinism is error. Calvinism makes God guilty of mans sins. Not man himself. According to calvinism we cannot choose. God chooses for us.
Jesus gives repentance and they repent.

Jesus gives repentance to who, Brightfame52 ?
Acts 17:30 says to all men everywhere.
That proves all are given the blessing by God to repent.

If God has only given repentance to a select few.
Then those God has not given repentance too are not guilty for not repenting.

God is gulity because He caused them not to repent.
Therefore God is guilty for their sins. Man cannot be gulity for his sins because you said they have no choice in the matter. You have made God gulity not man.
 
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New Testament Christian

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Jesus gives repentance and they repent.
If man has no choice on his own to repent as you believe.
Then God is making the choice for who He desires to believe.
Then mankind has no freewill. God makes the decision/choice on each individual who will and will not repent.
Since man has no choice to obey Gods commandments as you told me.
Those who God chose to disobey are not guilty for their disobedience.
You have made God guilty of those who cannot choose to obey Gods commandments.

Likewise you have God saving those He chose to save.
Therefore man has no ability to choose to believe or disbelieve.
God chose for them.

Therefore man cannot be held accountable for any sins he does or does not do.
We are without freewill.
Gods preprogrammed robots.

If calvinism is true.
God is unfair for judging mankind for sins they have no choice in choosing.
 
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New Testament Christian

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No He calls all the regenerate elect everywhere to repent.
God calls sinners to repentance,
Luke 5:32
I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.


Brightfame52, you said God called the SAVED ie regenerate elect to repentance.

That is not what Jesus said Sir. Jesus called the lost sinner to repentance.
 
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To all:

Obviously forgiveness follows repentance.

“Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee” (Acts of the Apostles 8:22).​

However, while there are varied meanings or definitions used for the word “repent” (Throughout the Bible), when it is used in reference to an unbeliever or an unfaithful self professing believer being told by God or by one of God’s faithful people in telling this sinner to “repent” of their sins, most believers I talk with today do not seem to understand what this word means (or it’s related words, i.e. like repentance).

Anyways, here is…

My Biblical Case For Repentance:

At the heart, I believe the Bible teaches that "Repentance" means, "Asking God for forgiveness" (Which of course naturally then leads to the "fruits of repentance", i.e. obedience to the Lord):

Important Note: While I may believe "Repentance" does involve to a certain degree a "change of mind" (like a person changing their mind about their old life of sin), I do not think "Repentance" exclusively means a “change of mind.”

"Asking God for forgiveness of sin" can either refer to: The "Sinner's Prayer" (Initial Salvation) (Romans 10:13), and or the seasoned believer "Confessing one's sin" to Jesus (Continued Salvation) (See 1 John 1:9, 1 John 2:1).

Anyways, here are my ten points using Scripture showing that "repentance" means "asking God for forgiveness of sin.”

#1. Acts 2:38,
The New Living Translation says in Acts 2:38 to "repent of your sins."
Douay Reheims says in Acts 2:38 to "Do penance."
New Life Version says in Acts 2:38 to "Be sorry for your sins"

#2. Luke 17:3 says, "Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him." This doesn't make any sense if "repent" means believe in Jesus (as some teach) or to have a change of mind about sin (as others teach) or to exclusively forsake sin. Yes, we are to forsake sin as a part of repentance but that comes later after repentance (Which is to ask God for forgiveness of our sin). For how can we reconcile with a brother if we do not say we are sorry vs. just going on about life as if we did nothing wrong?

#3. Jesus said in Matthew 12:41 that the Ninevites will rise up in Judgment against this generation because they repented at the preaching of Jonah. If you were to turn to Jonah chapter 3, you would be able to see in Jonah 3:6-10 that the King of the Ninevites had told his people to:

(a) Cry out to God (i.e. Repentance) (See Jonah 3:8).
(b) Turn from their sins or evil ways (i.e. The Natural Fruits of Repentance).​

#4. Matthew 3:6 (which then lines up with Matthew 3:8). Also, in Mark 1:4-5, it says John preached the "baptism of repentance" for the remission of sins (verse 4), and it then defines this "baptism of repentance" by saying they confessed their sins when they were baptized (verse 5).

#5. We see in Acts of the Apostles 8:22 a clear example of Peter telling Simon to "repent" of his wickedness in trying to pay for the Holy Spirit. Peter is telling Simon to make a prayer towards God. For Peter says that he should pray that God might forgive him. In other words, Peter is telling Simon to repent of a one time event of wickedness by way of prayer to GOD. This only makes sense if "repent" means to "ask for forgiveness."

#6. Ezekiel 14:6 says,
"Repent, and turn yourselves from your idols;" Repent makes the most sense here if a person is asking God for forgiveness by way of prayer instead of a person just believing in God. Naturally a person believes in God as their Savior if they are planning on forsaking their idols.

#7. We see repentance is the topic of discussion in Luke 15 (Luke 15:6) (Luke 15:10); This is then followed up by the "Parable of the Prodigal Son" with the son desiring to be reconciled with his father. We learn the WAY the Prodigal Son desired to be reconciled with his father when he said,

"I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee, And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants." (Luke 15:18-19).

In other words, the Prodigal Son was seeking forgiveness. This ties into the point of repentance in Luke 15:6 and Luke 15:10.

#8. Luke 10:13 says,
"Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works had been done in Tyre and Sidon, which have been done in you, they had a great while ago repented, sitting in sackcloth and ashes." This rules out the theory that repentance is exclusively forsaking sin. Granted, forsaking sin always follow true repentance (Asking God for forgiveness of one's sins) but forsaking sin is not repentance. The word "repented" here is describing a one time event because they "repented", sitting in sackcloth and ashes. In Jonah 3:6 we learn that the King of Nineveh sat in sackcloth and ashes. In Jonah 3:8, the King of Nineveh tells people to put on sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God (i.e. repentance): and then turn from their evil way (i.e. the fruits of repentance).

#9. John the Baptist says we are to bring forth fruits worthy of repentance (Luke 3:8). Fruits are deeds (or obedience to God). How can repentance be the same thing as the fruit? Is the fruit the same thing as the tree?

#10. Jeremiah 8:6 says, "I hearkened and heard, but they spake not aright: no man repented him of his wickedness, saying, What have I done? every one turned to his course, as the horse rusheth into the battle." Here we see the word "repented of wickedness" tied with the words, "What have I done?" This is an acknowledgement of one's sin to God as a part of asking His forgiveness.


Notable Additional Verses that Deal with Repentance
(But They Do Not Use The Word "Repent" or "Repentance"):

"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." (Romans 10:13).

13 "And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. (Luke 18:13-14).

Proverbs 28:13 says whosoever confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy.
 
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Any question on a spiritual matter must be answered with the word of God. This is the only way to determine truth.

Gods saving grace is only for those who are willing to repent.

If no repentance then no salvation.

Repentance in the gospel Jesus Christ always precedes Gods gift of grace.

Notice the very first time in the Bible the gospel of Jesus was preached in order to save the hearers of Jesus' gospel, Acts 2. Those who heard the gospel first believed what they heard, then repented and were baptized for the forgiveness of their sins.

Acts 2:37
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

These men believed the gospel that Peter preached to them. They were pricked in their hearts, they knew they had murdered, crucified their Messiah.
They now ask what they must do for their sin of murdering God on the cross.
Clearly asking what to do is a response of someone who believes what Peter has preached. They have believed in the death, burial and ressurection of their now accepted Messiah, Jesus Christ.

Peter will now continue his preaching of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Peter will now answer their belief and what to do with it.

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

We can see Peter preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ on how to be saved, telling these jews in order to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit you must repent and be baptized.

The Biblical order of salvation is thus
1. Believe the gospel Acts 2:37
2. Repentance Acts 2:38
3. Baptism Acts 2:38
4. Receive the gift of the Holy Spirit Acts 2:38-39

This order is repeated with every conversion in Jesus' gospel.

Repentance precedes salvation.
Repentance is itself a turning from service of self centered sin, to a submission of life long service to God.

We have to be careful to not make doctrine out of the experience of the disciples vs. the apostles giving us the reader specific doctrine from Scripture (or by not considering the whole counsel of God’s Word). In Acts chapter 2: Peter was not aware yet of the inclusion of the Gentiles into God’s program. In fact, the disciples misunderstood Jesus on what Jesus meant on going to all nations and to teach them all things that He commanded them. The Lord Jesus obviously meant going out unto the Gentiles, but the disciples did not understand that yet. For Peter was told by God to go to Cornelius’ house (Who were Gentiles). There, Peter preached the gospel to them, and the Spirit came upon them without any baptism in water yet. Yes, Peter later baptized them in water, but this was simply his understanding from the Old Covenant. It took time for the Jewish believers to come out from under the Old way of doing things. For in Acts 21, Paul is convinced by the Jewish Christian elders to go through with an OT purification ritual rite (that involves an animal sacrifice). This was wrong of Paul and the elders to do this. They made a mistake. But if one wanted to make doctrine out of their mistake, they could do so. Anyways, we know it was hard for those believers who were Jewish to let the Old ways go. Obviously God was willing to meet them half way and He was still able to move His Spirit in their life even if they did not have a perfect understanding on the one true baptism yet (Which does not involve water).

To learn more, check out this CF thread here:

What is the “one baptism” mentioned in Ephesians 4:5? (Note: I am not asking because I don't know).
 
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New Testament Christian

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We have to be careful to not make doctrine out of the experience of the disciples vs. the apostles giving us the reader specific doctrine from Scripture (or by not considering the whole counsel of God’s Word). In Acts chapter 2: Peter was not aware yet of the inclusion of the Gentiles into God’s program. In fact, the disciples misunderstood Jesus on what Jesus meant on going to all nations and to teach them all things that He commanded them. The Lord Jesus obviously meant going out unto the Gentiles, but the disciples did not understand that yet. For Peter was told by God to go to Cornelius’ house (Who were Gentiles). There, Peter preached the gospel to them, and the Spirit came upon them without any baptism in water yet. Yes, Peter later baptized them in water, but this was simply his understanding from the Old Covenant. It took time for the Jewish believers to come out from under the Old way of doing things. For in Acts 21, Paul is convinced by the Jewish Christian elders to go through with an OT purification ritual rite (that involves an animal sacrifice). This was wrong of Paul and the elders to do this. They made a mistake. But if one wanted to make doctrine out of their mistake, they could do so. Anyways, we know it was hard for those believers who were Jewish to let the Old ways go. Obviously God was willing to meet them half way and He was still able to move His Spirit in their life even if they did not have a perfect understanding on the one true baptism yet (Which does not involve water).

To learn more, check out this CF thread here:

What is the “one baptism” mentioned in Ephesians 4:5? (Note: I am not asking because I don't know).

The one baptism that is now in effect for those living under the new covenant of Christ, the gospel of Christ taught by Paul and all the chosen apostles is water.

I'm not a Greek scholar. No one needs to be a greek scholar to understand Jesus' gospel.

Paul in Epheasians 4:5 teaches the ONE immersion today is water.

We know this by the Greek word baptizo.

Mark 16:15-16 Jesus uses the word baptizo.
Baptizo is only used for water baptism never Holy Spirit baptism or any other baptism.

The Greek word used for jewish washings under the Mosaical law and old covenant Mikvah is, recorded in Hebrews 6:1-2
Therefore leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,

OF THE DOCTRINE OF BAPTISMS, OF THE LAYING ON OF HANDS, OF RESSURECTION OF THE DEAD AND OF ETERNAL JUDGEMENT.

This word baptisms in Hebrews 6:2 is not baptizo or baptisma(the word used regularly in the New Testament for christian immersion) Baptisms in Hevrews 6:2 is not baptisma.

Here are a few passages where baptisma, baptizo is used. This Greek word always refers to water.
Mark 16:15-16
John 3:5
Acts 2:38
Acts 8:12

In Acts 8 we see clearly the baptism that believers did, was not Holy Spirit baptism as the context of chapter 8 shows,

Acts 8:5
Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria and preached Christ to them.

Acts 8:12
But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.

We will learn this baptism is water for they have not yet received the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

13 Then Simon himself also believed; and when he was baptized he continued with Philip and was amazed seeing the miracles and signs which were done.

14 Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them,

15 who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit.

16 FOR AS YET HE HAD FALLEN UPON NONE OF THEM.
They had only been baptized(water baptisma) in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Every verse where someone is baptized "in the name of the Lord" is water baptism. Never Holy Spirit.

More verses of water baptism,
Matthew 28:19
Acts 8:38-39
Acts 9:18(Paul's water immersion)
Acts 10:47-48
Acts 16:15
Acts 16:33
Acts 19:5
Acts 22:16

How do we. know Jesus' commission in Mark 16:15-16 and Matthew 28:19 is water baptism and not Holy Spirit?

Because God baptized man directly with Holy Spirit baptism.

Man baptizes Man with water baptism. Jesus commands His disciples to baptize other men.
Matthew 28:19-20
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
Teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.

Paul was teaching the one baptism in the gospel of Jesus Christ is water, Epheasians 4:5
Because only water baptism is the baptism that washes away our sins,
Epheasians 5:26
That He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word.

1Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit we were all baptized(this Greek word is baptizo, meaning water only)
Into one body- whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free-and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

If 1Corinthians 12:13 is Holy Spirit baptism into the one body.
Then it would not read,
For BY one Spirit we were all baptized...
It would instead read,
For WITH one Spirit we were all baptized...


The one body being the church, Colossians 1:18
We are water baptized into the one body/church,

Acts 2:38-39
Acts 2:41
Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them,

Added to what? Answer:
Acts 2:47
Praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the Church daily those who were being saved.

Many churches vote to have folks become members of their church. This is an unscriptual practise.
Only God Himself adds the saved to His church. God makes us members of His body not men.











 
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New Testament Christian

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even if they did not have a perfect understanding on the one true baptism yet (Which does not involve water).

The apostles that received Holy Spirit baptism had complete perfect understanding of the revelation of the the covenant, Jesus' will and testament the gospel of Jesus Christ.

If the apostles who received Holy Spirit baptism were not all knowing then they were not fully equipped by God to complete the revelation of God ie the Holy Bible.

This was the very purpose of Holy Spirit baptism. To give the apostles miraculous knowledge to bring to completion the work Jesus came to earth to fulfill.

Jesus promises His apostles that they will receive Holy Spirit baptism ie power from on high.
Luke 24:49
Behold, I send the Promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city of Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high.

Acts 2:1-2;4
When the day of penetcost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting.

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

This power from on high gave them ALL miraculous knowledge of Gods revelation to man,

John 14:25-26
These things I have spoken to you while being present with you.

But the Helper, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in My name He will teach you ALL THINGS and bring to your remembrance ALL THINGS that I said to you.

John 16:13
However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into ALL TRUTH; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.
14 He will glorify Me, for He will take what is Mine and declare it to you.

Jesus promised the apostles they would be guided into ALL KNOWLEDGE by His Holy Spirit.

How much knowledge is ALL TRUTH?
All means all.

The apostles were not ignorant of any of the new gospel of Jesus Christ. For they did not need to study but were given miraculous knowledge.

What about Peter's sin that Paul rebuked Peter to his face?

Peter knew he was going against the Holy Spirit when he sinned.


Holy Spirit baptism never took away the apostles free will.
They could choose to obey the Holy Spirit's revelation or go against it.

They still could commit willful sin.
This does not prove Peter did not have ALL knowledge when he sinned against God.

Peter knew water baptism was part of Jesus' gospel when he preached immersion in water in Acts 2:38 and Acts 10:47-48.

This was no mistake on Peter's part. He was miraculously guided by the Holy Spirit.

Jesus Himself taught water baptism in His gospel in Mark 16:15-16.
 
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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
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@New Testament Christian

I provided a brief summary and a CF thread link discussion on the one true baptism so as not to derail the discussion here. I am also not really interested in debating this topic at this time. Much of my defense and discussion is in the thread link I provided. My mission is to glorify the Lord and preach the truth. Whether or not a person accepts that truth is another matter. But I know Gods Word will not return void.
 
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New Testament Christian

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@New Testament Christian

I provided a brief summary and a CF thread link discussion on the one true baptism so as not to derail the discussion here. I am also not really interested in debating this topic at this time. Much of my defense and discussion is in the thread link I provided. My mission is to glorify the Lord and preach the truth. Whether or not a person accepts that truth is another matter. But I know Gods Word will not return void.

All I desire is to know the truth. That is why you should consider the scriptures that I have used to show what baptism means in Epheasians 4:5. We can understand the scriptures, we can be of the same mind, 1Corinthians 1:10.

Let's discuss what baptism is in the gospel of Jesus Christ through email, titusdornm@aol.com

Hope you will search the scriptures with me to see if these things are so, Acts 17:11.
 
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Faithful777

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Repentance is being baptized with Jesus into His death, it required sacrifice, which was blood, water also as that was what came out of Jesus when pierced, so follow that example to believe in..



John 19:34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.


1 John 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.


Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Matthew 20:22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.
 
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Brightfame52

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Jesus gives repentance to who, Brightfame52 ?
Acts 17:30 says to all men everywhere.
That proves all are given the blessing by God to repent.

If God has only given repentance to a select few.
Then those God has not given repentance too are not guilty for not repenting.

God is gulity because He caused them not to repent.
Therefore God is guilty for their sins. Man cannot be gulity for his sins because you said they have no choice in the matter. You have made God gulity not man.
Jesus gives repentance to Israel, His elect Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
 
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Brightfame52

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God calls sinners to repentance,
Luke 5:32
I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.


Brightfame52, you said God called the SAVED ie regenerate elect to repentance.

That is not what Jesus said Sir. Jesus called the lost sinner to repentance.
In case you were not aware, Jesus elect are sinners, they are born sinners.
 
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Brightfame52

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God calls sinners to repentance,
Luke 5:32
I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.


Brightfame52, you said God called the SAVED ie regenerate elect to repentance.

That is not what Jesus said Sir. Jesus called the lost sinner to repentance.
Right He calls the saved, the spiritually alive to repent.
 
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BBAS 64

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Good Day,

Repentance is a command for every person with out exception.

It is clear within the New convent that God is the effective cause.

EZE :- And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.

He gives and removes... for the effective purpose of causing the walking in and obeying. If he does not do the giving and removing, there will be no effective obeying and walking. The is the means by which the gift of repentance is given (granted). The gift has a purpose and it is God's purpose so that we know it can not fail.

2 Tim: - the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.

That purposes are leading to truth, so that they come to their senses, they escape the snare of the devil because they are held captive by him.

Only if the Son sets you free you will be free indeed, if he does not you are not and will never be.

The Knowledge of God, comes for the choice of the Son in revealing him.

Mat 11:27 All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.

No one know the Son, nor the Father unless the Son makes a choice.


In Him,

Bill
 
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New Testament Christian

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Good Day,

Repentance is a command for every person with out exception.

It is clear within the New convent that God is the effective cause.

EZE :- And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.

He gives and removes... for the effective purpose of causing the walking in and obeying. If he does not do the giving and removing, there will be no effective obeying and walking. The is the means by which the gift of repentance is given (granted). The gift has a purpose and it is God's purpose so that we know it can not fail.

2 Tim: - the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.

That purposes are leading to truth, so that they come to their senses, they escape the snare of the devil because they are held captive by him.

Only if the Son sets you free you will be free indeed, if he does not you are not and will never be.

The Knowledge of God, comes for the choice of the Son in revealing him.

Mat 11:27 All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.

No one know the Son, nor the Father unless the Son makes a choice.


In Him,

Bill


Hello BBAS 64

I agree with you that Gods command to repent is for everyone,
Acts 17:30-31
Truly these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent,

Because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained, He has given ASSURANCE OF THIS DAY TO ALL by raising Jesus from the dead.

We know all are given the command by God to repent.
We also know God has provided the way so that man can repent.

But, God does not do the repenting for us.
We must repent.
And we all can repent, because God has provided this ability for all of us by His Sons sacrifice for our sins.
He blessed ALL with repentance, Acts 17:30.
But only those who choose to take His free gift of grace and obey His commandment to repent will be forgiven.

If God only gives a select few repentance as calvinism teaches then God is guilty for those who do not repent.

For those who do not repent, are not at fault for not repenting. Because God chose for them not to grant repentance.
They cannot choose on their own to repent.
Therefore they are not gulity of not repenting.
Calvinism makes God guilty of mans sin.

We know God chose All to be saved through Grace.
In Gods grace is the gift of Belief, repentance, obedience,
Faith, repentance and the ability to obey is what man must do.

God gave us all the ability to do these things, He does not do them for us.
These gifts come from God, His grace.

If God chose only certain ones to be blessed with His grace, then God did not die for the whole world,
God therefore is partial,
1Timothy 2:4
Who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

God has given us overwhelming evidence He is not partial with who He loves. He loves every sinner. He came to save every sinner.

Impartiality of God:
Psalm 67:2
That your way may be known on earth, Your salvation among all nations.

Acts 10:34-35
Then Peter opened his mouth and said: in truth I perceive that God shows no partiality
But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.

Romans 2:11
For there is no partiality with God.

Epheasians 6:9
And you, masters, do the same things to them, giving up threatening, knowing that your own Master also is in heaven and there is no partiality with Him.

Colossians 3:25
But he who does wrong will be repaid for what he has done, and there is no partiality.

1Peter 1:17
And if you call on the Father, who without partiality judges according to each one's work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear.


The scriptures clearly teach God is no respecter of persons.

All have been chosen to come to repentance, Acts 17:30.
God has predestined all to repentance.
It is mans choice to choose to repent.

2Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.






 
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