Which comes first repentance or forgiveness?

[testifier_uk]

Actually correctly stated, people misunderstand The Bible and believe repentance is required for salvation. Which is a large part of the beliefs of many groups of denominations.

I completely reject this erroneous belief about how a person receives God's free gift of Eternal life. The common teaching of the false repentance Eternal Life (salvation).

This belief usually accompanies another false belief the loosing of ones Eternal Life (salvation).

Eternal life is Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ is laying His life down for us, everybody who values their life) to try to save it) looses it, and all their talk is for themselves ) selfish and antiChrist)

 

[Danthemailman]

But the things which God announced beforehand by the mouth of all the prophets, that His Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled. Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord;
— Acts 3:18-19

It sounds to me that the wiping away of sins is sins being forgiven. As they are forgiven they are wiped away. If that is correct we first repent, turn to God and then have our sins forgiven (wiped away).

My Lutheran friend insists that we have been forgiven already through the sacrifice of Christ, and we receive that forgiveness through turning to God, by having faith in Christ.

Amen! Acts 20:21 - testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. When the Bible only mentions repentance in connection with forgiveness faith is implied or assumed. Also, when the Bible only mentions faith in connection with forgiveness repentance is implied or assumed. Where you have one you must have the other. Repentance and faith are inseparable (two sides to the same coin) in regards to receiving forgiveness. Repentance (change of mind) new direction of that change of mind (faith in Jesus Christ for salvation).

 

[testifier_uk]

Repentance and faith is in righteousness, in Christ ( to believe in Christ is to believe in Gods way of sacrifice)


Then if you sacrifice all your self seeking, you have sought the Lord.



1 Corinthians 10:33 Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.

Philippians 2:21 For all seek their own, not the things which are Jesus Christ's.





Is it not important to know what you are repenting from, and forgiven from, and it is selfish evil seeking.



Also for these times, it is all people wish for now pretending with a form of godliness..



2 Timothy 3:This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

 

[LoveofTruth]

1Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit we were all baptized(this Greek word is baptizo, meaning water only)
Into one body- whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free-and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

If 1Corinthians 12:13 is Holy Spirit baptism into the one body.
Then it would not read,
For BY one Spirit we were all baptized...
It would instead read,
For WITH one Spirit we were all baptized...

No I don't agree here. The baptism "into one body" Is the baptism into Christ (Galatians 3:26,27(. Not into water. This is not talking (as I understand so far) about the Baptism with the Holy Ghost. This is showing that to be in Christ immersed into Him or into the body of Christ with Jesus as the head of the body , it is done by the Spirit. Notice the word Spirit here. He does not say water here. The salvation of having CHRIST dwell in our hearts and immersed into him is a spiritual thing not a physical going under water and an old Testament diverse washing. Johns water baptism was part of the Old testament washings. Jesus said it was past and belonged only to John in Acts 1 and Acts 11.

The Jewish believers in Acts were definitely still practicing Johns water baptism after Christ rose again and still going to the Temple for a long time after and still sacrificing animals long after Christ death and still zealous of the law and customs. This is shown clearly in scripture. So when you see the Jewish Christians practicing these things, like circumcision Acts 16 etc, water baptism, all over Acts, sacrificing animals Acts 21, keeping the law zealously and customs Acts 2, 10, 15, 21 etc. Then you must consider that these things were allowed for a time with the Jews in a time of reformation. But the gentiles were not to be brought under this and then at a later time to some out. That is seen also in scripture in Acts 15, 21 etc. We also see Paul Circumcised Timothy who was Half Jewish and he did so to not offend them, it would seem that he condescended to their weakness. But when they wanted to circumcise Titus, (who was Gentile) he withstood them strongly. We see this in Galatians 2

"1Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also. 2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain. 3 But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised: 4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: 5 To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you." ( Galatians 2:1-4 KJV).

The gospel he preached among the Gentiles was (1 Corinthians 15:1-4, and it had no ordinances added to it, no circumcision, water baptism or any law of customs etc).Paul was saying here that the liberty they had in Christ was not because of OT works they were having imposed on them at the time. But if was a free gift by believing the gospel. Not adding anything to it. Paul's whole argument in Galatians is showing these things. As a consideration try adding water baptism where you see the word circumcision. It is an interesting study. Some today see water baptism exactly similar to circumcision in the OT. I do not agree with this, not ford scripture as i have seen. .

"Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation..."( Hebrews 9:10 KJV).

These washings (baptismos in Greek). We cannot say that washings before the cross were not part of these diverse washings, even Johns water baptism was part of the Old Covenant Jesus said it was in the past tense and belonged to Johns call,

"For John truly baptized [past tense] with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence." ( Acts 1:5)

consider.

"And when we were come to Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly. 18 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present. 19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry. 20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:" ( Acts 21:17-20).

I understand how many are troubled by the things I share. I was troubled in the past about water baptism. When preaching on the street I was seriously considering if I had to bring the new converts down to the lake and water baptize them right away. Or if I needed a water basin on the corner so they could get water baptized immediately. I have water baptized people myself in the past . But when I was troubled about how a ordinance can be added to the gospel or added as some kind of work we must do I heard the words of Paul in 1 Cor 1

“For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.” ( 1 Cor 1:17). (the cross puts to death all works of the flesh)

When I heard it it was like light shining into my spirit. I followed this word and eventually I was asking the Lord about the book of Acts. Because many, like yourself had used Acts to prove water baptism for all today. It was clear to me that Paul showed that Christ did not send him to baptize, and he did not say the word "primarily not to baptize. But not to do it period. And it was clear that water baptism was not part of the saving gospel as some would make it. For it is not by works of righteousness that we do, by grace are we saved through faith not of works. And I saw that to the same Corinthians Paul spoke 1 Cor 12:13, about the one baptism all must have which is by the Spirit into the body of Christ and he also showed them again the saving gospel he preached.1 Cor 15:1-4. So if Paul said he was not sent to baptize and he thanked God he did so little of it, then 1 Cor 12:13, cannot be him referring to water baptism, for he would be speaking of water in that case.

But when I saw (by revelation I believe) the Book of Acts that the Jewish Christians were still under the law and customs pf the Jews, my eyes were opened to something I had missed for many years. When you see it , you cannot un see it.

I ask those who say to me, "well, they did it in Acts so we should to". I ask them, where was Peter going in Acts 2? tThey say the temple, and what dd they do in the temple? and then I show them that in Acts 15 they still believed they had to keep the law and be circumcised, many of them as Jews. Why did they think that? O show them many places in Acts where the Jewish Christians were still zealous of the law and customs of the Jews and even sacrificed animals Acts 21. Then I show them the Jewish Gentile issue we see in scripture all through the New testament and hopefully they will consider this as well.

ThenI ask them, so if we are to do all the Jewish Christians did in Acts as Gentles, then according to your understanding they should have sacrifice animals still, been circumcised, kept the whole law, and customs of the Jews, been water baptized as John did while still under the law, had High Priest and Levites and do all the law. But they will not agree to this, and that is my point.

So the expression by one Spirit INTO ONE BODY. Shows the immersion by the Spirit into the body of Christ

"For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.: ( Galatians 2:26,27 KJV)/

"...baptized into Jesus Chris...t " ( Romans 4:3 KJV)

So when we put on Christ it does not saw we put on water or immerse under water here. To be immersed into Christ is not into water. It is believers in him and he in them and Christ dwells in our heart by faith. Again referring to the inward spiritual aspect.

So all are added to the church ( the body of Christ by grace through faith. The grace is Gods work in immersing us into Christ this comes through faith. The baptism or immersion into is the work of Gods Spirit. So when we read verses like

“He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;..." ( Mark 16:16 KJV).

We can see the belief part in our faith, and then when we believe we are baptized, or immersed into Christ who dwells in our hearts by faith. This immersion into is by the Spirit , by the grace of God. For by grace are we saved. Mark 16:16 is not adding water baptism for salvation as I understand.

"...by his Spirit in the inner man; 17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith;...." ( Ephesians 3:16,17)

 

[LoveofTruth]

The apostles that received Holy Spirit baptism had complete perfect understanding of the revelation of the the covenant, Jesus' will and testament the gospel of Jesus Christ.

If the apostles who received Holy Spirit baptism were not all knowing then they were not fully equipped by God to complete the revelation of God ie the Holy Bible.

"But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed....Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified." ( Galatians 2:11.16)

"13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. 14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common." ( Acts 10)

Shouldn't Peter have known all these things according to your understanding?

This was the very purpose of Holy Spirit baptism. To give the apostles miraculous knowledge to bring to completion the work Jesus came to earth to fulfill.

Yes, but the Spirit would GUIDE them into all truth. This is as they grow in knowledge of Jesus Christ. Jesus said he had many things to say and to judge of them, but at that time they were not able to bear them, so the Spirit would guide them. to lead them along as they walked with God. Believers have the Spirit and "know all things" as God reveals them to us. But some are babes and others mature by use of their spiritual senses. We are all growing in the Lord, even the apostles were. Peter when speaking in Christ said the right things. But how to understand them is also to be discerned. Just as the prophets of old spoke of things to come which some of them might not have fully understood. Even John the baptist, filled with the Spirit from His mothers womb, seemed to have some doubts about Jesus.

Jesus Himself taught water baptism in His gospel in Mark 16:15-16.

show me the word water there? Jesus said John baptized (past tense with water ) in Acts.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

In salvation which comes first - repentance and turning to God, or God's word of forgiveness?

John 14 is a passage stating “how” one receives the Holy Spirit.



John 14:15-16 "If you love Me, keep My commandments. And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever—


John 14:23-24 Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me.


We see an order in the previous scriptures. The one who loves God will keep Jesus's word, because of this action, the Father will love Him in return, and make their home with that person (give the Holy Spirit).

Jesus is not suggesting that we legalistically keep commands to get God’s favor. But that we receive His words, His command to believe in Jesus for forgiveness, and attempt to live God’s way.

Anything less than this is not genuine salvation. Salvation without repentance does not result in life. No one cannot say “I have faith, but no repentance”, that does not result in God’s love.

 

[Brightfame52]

Forgiveness' comes first because everyone Christ shed His Blood for is forgiven on that basis, they're even forgiven when born into the world as wicked sinners. matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.