Which comes first repentance or forgiveness?

[New Testament Christian]

Cont.

Mat 11:27 All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.

Matthew 11:27
Who does Jesus choose to reveal Himself too?

Read the context of the chapter to understand Matthew 11:27.

Matthew 11:20
Then He began to rebuke the cities in which most of His mighty works had been done, because they did not REPENT:

25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank you Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and have revealed them to babes.

Who has Jesus said His Father has hidden the way of salvation?

Verse 20 explains who Jesus is referring too.

Jesus' Father has hidden understanding from those WHO CHOSE NOT TO REPENT.

That is who verse 27 is speaking about.

Verse 28
Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

God does not choose for us who will repent.
God chose all men everywhere to repent, Acts 17:30.
It is OUR choice to repent.
Those who choose not to obey His commandments and repent.
Those will be deceived by their own selfish unbelief.
God will allow them to believe a lie.
Only after they reject the gospel never before.

2Thessalonians 2:11-12
And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie.

12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

 

[Faithful777]

Cont.



Matthew 11:27
Who does Jesus choose to reveal Himself too?

Read the context of the chapter to understand Matthew 11:27.

Matthew 11:20
Then He began to rebuke the cities in which most of His mighty works had been done, because they did not REPENT:

25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank you Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and have revealed them to babes.

Who has Jesus said His Father has hidden the way of salvation?

Verse 20 explains who Jesus is referring too.

Jesus' Father has hidden understanding from those WHO CHOSE NOT TO REPENT.

That is who verse 27 is speaking about.

Verse 28
Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

God does not choose for us who will repent.
God chose all men everywhere to repent, Acts 17:30.
It is OUR choice to repent.
Those who choose not to obey His commandments and repent.
Those will be deceived by their own selfish unbelief.
God will allow them to believe a lie.
Only after they reject the gospel never before.

2Thessalonians 2:11-12
And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie.

12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

1 Corinthians 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

 

[Faithful777]

God does not choose for us who will repent.
God chose all men everywhere to repent, Acts 17:30.
It is OUR choice to repent.
Those who choose not to obey His commandments and repent.
Those will be deceived by their own selfish unbelief.
God will allow them to believe a lie.
Only after they reject the gospel never before.

2Thessalonians 2:11-12
And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie.

12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

God chose out their delusions, and did not choose them to not be deluded..


Isaiah 66:3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.
4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.





Nobody answered to God ( of Israel) so now God calls who He chooses...



Isaiah 65:1 I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name.

Romans 10:20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.
21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

 

[New Testament Christian]

God chose out their delusions, and did not choose them to not be deluded..


Isaiah 66:3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.
4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.





Nobody answered to God ( of Israel) so now God calls who He chooses...



Isaiah 65:1 I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name.

Romans 10:20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.
21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

Good choice of verses Faithful777.

These verses give more evidence God does not preselect some to be lost and some to be saved, ie Unconditional Election.

God bases His choosing on whom He will save and whom He will punish based upon the actions of those who hear Him.

Once the hearer chooses by his own free will to obey or disobey, then God brings judgment(chooses) to save or punish.

Never before they hear His word. Only after they hear His word and decide what to do with it.

Isaiah 66:4
So I will choose their punishment and bring on them what they dread because I called and no one answered; I spoke and they did not listen; they did evil in My sight and chose what I did not delight in.

they chose to reject Gods word, His ways.
God did not choose for them to obey or disobey as calvinism teaches.

Repantance is a choice all can freely choose.

 

[Faithful777]

Good choice of verses Faithful777.

These verses give more evidence God does not preselect some to be lost and some to be saved, ie Unconditional Election.

God bases His choosing on whom He will save and whom He will punish based upon the actions of those who hear Him.

Once the hearer chooses by his own free will to obey or disobey, then God brings judgment(chooses) to save or punish.

Never before they hear His word. Only after they hear His word and decide what to do with it.

Isaiah 66:4
So I will choose their punishment and bring on them what they dread because I called and no one answered; I spoke and they did not listen; they did evil in My sight and chose what I did not delight in.

they chose to reject Gods word, His ways.
God did not choose for them to obey or disobey as calvinism teaches.

Repantance is a choice all can freely chose.

It says they did not answer when God called ( had no faith) so God calls us now through the faith of Christ..

Romans 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Romans 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

Romans 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.


Now faith is Gods gift( if not given you have no faith, as Israel with no given faith till this deay)..



1 Corinthians 12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:




So God has no given repentance to all men, as to all men, faith is not given, clearly ( they are wicked men, men of faith are delivered from)..



Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.


2 Thessalonians 3:2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.

 

[New Testament Christian]

It says they did not answer when God called ( had no faith) so God calls us now through the faith of Christ..

Romans 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Romans 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

Romans 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.


Now faith is Gods gift( if not given you have no faith, as Israel with no given faith till this deay)..



1 Corinthians 12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:




So God has no given repentance to all men, as to all men, faith is not given, clearly ( they are wicked men, men of faith are delivered from)..



Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.


2 Thessalonians 3:2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.

Now wait, friend.

You think the Isrealites did not have any faith in their God?
Even the ones who did not obey God knew their God was the true living God.

It was not a matter of not being able to believe.
It was a CHOICE TO NOT OBEY.

Read the verses you sent to me again.

Isaiah 66:4
.....I spoke and they did not listen...
Did they not listen to God because they could not believe?
Or
Because they CHOSE to not listen?
Isaiah 66:4
....I spoke and they did not listen; they did evil in My sight and CHOSE what I did not delight in.

Do you understand? The Jews chose to not obey their God.
God did not choose for them to be punished BEFORE they turned against Him, only after the refused to repent.

If God chooses only a select few to be saved.
Then those who God has not chosen are not guilty for not choosing God.

God is gulity for their sins. He chose for them to practice sin.

They are not gulity.
Calvinism makes God guilty of mans sins.

 

[New Testament Christian]

So God has no given repentance to all men, as to all men, faith is not given, clearly ( they are wicked men, men of faith are delivered from)..

Sir, you just went against Gods word!

You said the opposite of Gods word!

Acts 17:30
Truly these times of ignorance God overlooked,
But now commands ALL MEN EVERYWHERE TO REPENT.

God did call all men everywhere to repent.

 

[Faithful777]

You think the Isrealites did not have any faith in their God?
Even the ones who did not obey God knew their God was the true living God.

It was not a matter of not being able to believe.
It was a CHOICE TO NOT OBEY.

.

NONE THAT SOUGHT GOD, NO NOT ONE, no fear of God before their eyes...

Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.




Israel sought not by faith ( then they had no faith) and because of unbelief ( no faith in any in Israel) they ( Israel) was cut off..



Romans 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Romans 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

 

[Faithful777]

Read the verses you sent to me again.

Isaiah 66:4
.....I spoke and they did not listen...
Did they not listen to God because they could not believe?
Or
Because they CHOSE to not listen?
Isaiah 66:4
....I spoke and they did not listen; they did evil in My sight and CHOSE what I did not delight in.

Do you understand? The Jews chose to not obey their God.
God did not choose for them to be punished BEFORE they turned against Him, only after the refused to repent.

If God chooses only a select few to be saved.
Then those who God has not chosen are not guilty for not choosing God.

God is gulity for their sins. He chose for them to practice sin.

God spoke and they did not hear( God had not given them ears to hear until this day....



Deuteronomy 29:3 The great temptations which thine eyes have seen, the signs, and those great miracles:
4 Yet the Lord hath not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day.

 

[Faithful777]

Sir, you just went against Gods word!

You said the opposite of Gods word!

Acts 17:30
Truly these times of ignorance God overlooked,
But now commands ALL MEN EVERYWHERE TO REPENT.

God did call all men everywhere to repent.

All men are commanded to repent, yet few are chosen, and many are called, put it all together and stop imagining things..


Matthew 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.


Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

 

[New Testament Christian]

God spoke and they did not hear( God had not given them ears to hear until this day....



Deuteronomy 29:3 The great temptations which thine eyes have seen, the signs, and those great miracles:
4 Yet the Lord hath not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day.

Ok, friend.
If you are going to understand Deuteronomy 29:3 through the eyes of John Calvin then who is guilty of their sins?

 

[New Testament Christian]

God spoke and they did not hear( God had not given them ears to hear until this day....



Deuteronomy 29:3 The great temptations which thine eyes have seen, the signs, and those great miracles:
4 Yet the Lord hath not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day.

If God does not choose All to have the ability to believe.

Then God has already chosen those who cannot believe to be damned forever in Hellfire.

Who is at fault for these men who cannot believe because God has not given them the ability to believe?

 

[New Testament Christian]

All men are commanded to repent, yet few are chosen, and many are called, put it all together and stop imagining things..


Matthew 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.


Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

The only logical conclusion is God is guilty for these mens sins.

They cannot believe Jesus. Therefore God has chosen for them to live in sin.

Therefore it is immoral for God to punish them for their sins because they DID NOT CHOOSE FOR THEMSELVES TO COMMIT SIN. GOD CHOSE FOR THEM TO COMMIT SIN.

 

[Faithful777]

Ok, friend.
If you are going to understand Deuteronomy 29:3 through the eyes of John Calvin then who is guilty of their sins?

Everybody is guilty for their choice, and mans natural choice is sin.....


1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[Faithful777]

If God does not choose All to have the ability to believe.

Then God has already chosen those who cannot believe to be damned forever in Hellfire.

Who is at fault for these men who cannot believe because God has not given them the ability to believe?

They do believe, in all they do, boasting and self seeking, they dont complain. They are happy in riches and comforts.

 

[Faithful777]

The only logical conclusion is God is guilty for these mens sins.

They cannot believe Jesus. Therefore God has chosen for them to live in sin.

Therefore it is immoral for God to punish them for their sins because they DID NOT CHOOSE FOR THEMSELVES TO COMMIT SIN. GOD CHOSE FOR THEM TO COMMIT SIN.

Natural man does choose all he does, and deserves what he gives out, no mercy....



Daniel 4:27 Wherefore, O king, let my counsel be acceptable unto thee, and break off thy sins by righteousness, and thine iniquities by shewing mercy to the poor; if it may be a lengthening of thy tranquillity.

 

[New Testament Christian]

Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Sorry Sir, but you do not understand Romans 3:10

Tell me, if no Jews had faith in God as you believe.
Then explain all the saved Jews, Moses, Abraham, Noah apostles Peter, Paul, James, Luke, Mark, etc.

 

[New Testament Christian]

Natural man does choose all he does, and deserves what he gives out, no mercy....



Daniel 4:27 Wherefore, O king, let my counsel be acceptable unto thee, and break off thy sins by righteousness, and thine iniquities by shewing mercy to the poor; if it may be a lengthening of thy tranquillity.

YOU SPEAK OUT OF BOTH SIDES OF YOUR MOUTH.

You cannot teach God gives no repentance to all.
Then teach that man who have not been chosen are guilty for not repenting.

You are not making logical sense Sir.

 

[Faithful777]

The wicked have no interest ( no desire to hear not about( Gods mercy)...



Psalm 37:21 The wicked borroweth, and payeth not again: but the righteous sheweth mercy, and giveth.

Psalm 109:16 Because that he remembered not to shew mercy, but persecuted the poor and needy man, that he might even slay the broken in heart.

Proverbs 14:21 He that despiseth his neighbour sinneth: but he that hath mercy on the poor, happy is he.

Proverbs 14:22 Do they not err that devise evil? but mercy and truth shall be to them that devise good.


Proverbs 16:6 By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the Lord men depart from evil.

Isaiah 9:17 Therefore the Lord shall have no joy in their young men, neither shall have mercy on their fatherless and widows: for every one is an hypocrite and an evildoer, and every mouth speaketh folly. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.

Isaiah 27:11 When the boughs thereof are withered, they shall be broken off: the women come, and set them on fire: for it is a people of no understanding: therefore he that made them will not have mercy on them, and he that formed them will shew them no favour.



Hosea 4:1 Hear the word of the Lord, ye children of Israel: for the Lord hath a controversy with the inhabitants of the land, because there is no truth, nor mercy, nor knowledge of God in the land.

Hosea 6:6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

Jonah 2:8 They that observe lying vanities forsake their own mercy.

Micah 6:8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the Lord require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?

Job 21:14 Therefore they say unto God, Depart from us; for we desire not the knowledge of thy ways.
15 What is the Almighty, that we should serve him? and what profit should we have, if we pray unto him?
16 Lo, their good is not in their hand: the counsel of the wicked is far from me.

Matthew 5:7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

 

[Faithful777]

YOU SPEAK OUT OF BOTH SIDES OF YOUR MOUTH.

You cannot teach God gives no repentance to all.
Then teach that man who have not been chosen are guilty for not repenting.

You are not making logical sense Sir.

It is sense as all have chosen their OWN WAYS.