20 major reasons to reject the Premillennial doctrine

[keras]

So what was Jesus' real goal? Redemption and salvation! Jesus does not get "a reward" from his death and resurrection on the cross. It is mankind that gets the "reward of salvation" through his sacrifice!

This is where you show your extreme bias and your determination to make the Words of scripture fit your beliefs.
Jesus WAS rewarded by God, He now sits at the right hand of God, awaiting His enemies to be destroyed. Hebrews 10:13
Revelation 5:1-14 tells us how Jesus is given the authority to open the Seven Sealed scroll. He has opened the first five and when He opens the Sixth Seal, His enemies in the Middle East region, will be destroyed. Zephaniah 1:14-18

Luk 13:32 And he said to them, "Go and tell that fox, 'Behold, I cast out demons and perform cures today and tomorrow, and the third day I finish my course/goal. 33)Nevertheless I must go on my way today and tomorrow and the day following; for it cannot be that a prophet should perish away from Jerusalem.'

Luke, not Luk and then we can click on it to read the scripture.

That Luke 13:32-33 is about two different things, is proved by the word -Nevertheless.... Which means; notwithstanding, or in spite of that.
So verse 32 is a prophecy of the Church age and then the Millennium. Of 2000 years and then the 1000 years of the physical reign on earth of King Jesus. Proved by the fact of the almost 2000 years of the Church age having passed.

Verse 33 was for the immediate future and was literally fulfilled.

 

[ShineyDays2]

This is where you show your extreme bias and your determination to make the Words of scripture fit your beliefs.

This is where you show your extreme bias and your determination to make the Words of scripture fit your beliefs about a new temple that you have been totally unable to provide the scripture verses for.

The same applies to your inability to provide any verse out of the mouth of Jesus for your "so-called commission"..

The LAST of the legitimate "messengers of God" were John the Baptist, Jesus Christ Himself, the apostles and the writers of the Epistles. They told us everything we need. The Book has been closed for nearly 2,000 years. No more new "self-appointed messengers" needed.

 

[ShineyDays2]

That Luke 13:32-33 is about two different things, is proved by the word -Nevertheless.... Which means; notwithstanding, or in spite of that.

I couldn't care less about what the word "nevertheless" means.

It is a major concern that "the third day" is corrupted to mean a "new temple" and in the "thousand year millennium" when you consistently avoid proving them with scripture.

Even if you do use "in spite of" instead of "nevertheless" it does not warrant changing "the third day" or his "goal of providing salvation for mankind" that he had to finish.

 

[ShineyDays2]

Luke, not Luk and then we can click on it to read the scripture.

Stop jerking me around keras! Luke 13:32-33 is already posted above your unnecessary rebuke of Luk and you know it. A little petty I must say.

 

[keras]

This is where you show your extreme bias and your determination to make the Words of scripture fit your beliefs about a new temple that you have been totally unable to provide the scripture verses for.

The same applies to your inability to provide any verse out of the mouth of Jesus for your "so-called commission"..

The LAST of the legitimate "messengers of God" were John the Baptist, Jesus Christ Himself, the apostles and the writers of the Epistles. They told us everything we need. The Book has been closed for nearly 2,000 years. No more new "self-appointed messengers" needed.

There are several verses in the NT which prove there will be a new Temple in Jerusalem. 2 Thess 2:4, Revelation 11:1, and Jesus prophecy in Matthew 24:11 shows there has to be a holy place, within a Temple. for the Anti-Christ to desecrate. As per Daniel 9:27.

Messengers of God, who promote His holy Word, are what all we Christians should be.
I happen to promote the Prophetic Word and I have never claimed to be a prophet.
What would be good is for people to address the scriptures I post and cease 'shooting the messenger'.

 

[keras]

I couldn't care less about what the word "nevertheless" means.

A very telling admission.
Having that word at the start of Luke 13:33, proves that verse is about another subject than verse 32.

The AMill theory is wrong and will soon be very apparently wrong, as the end times events commence.

 

[ShineyDays2]

What would be good is for people to address the scriptures I posts and cease 'shooting the messenger' .

What would be good is for keras to address the scriptures in truth he post and cease ridiculing those who reveal his manipulations as in...

Luk 13:32 And he said to them, "Go and tell that fox, 'Behold, I cast out demons and perform cures today and tomorrow, and the third day I finish my course.
Luk 13:33 Nevertheless I must go on my way today and tomorrow and the day following; for it cannot be that a prophet should perish away from Jerusalem.'
​

Since you insist on using the word "Nevertheless" to justify your agenda, lets look at the actual context of the paragraph by including verses 22 and 31 which makes it very clear what is going on and why Jesus used 'Hebrew parallelisms' here and in many other verses in scripture....

Luk 13:22 He went on his way through towns and villages, teaching, and journeying toward Jerusalem.
Luk 13:31 At that very hour some Pharisees came, and said to him, "Get away from here, for Herod wants to kill you."
Luk 13:32 And he said to them, "Go and tell that fox, 'Behold, I cast out demons and perform cures today and tomorrow, and the third day I finish my course...[on the cross.]
Luk 13:33 Nevertheless I must go on my way today and tomorrow and the day following; for it cannot be that a prophet should perish away from Jerusalem.'​

Now the word "nevertheless" when taken in context of the verse, it takes on a whole new meaning that disputes your misuse of it!

a. In verse 22, due to the Day of Passover feast that was soon to be held in Jerusalem, he knew that it was his time to become the sacrifice for mankind's sin through his death and resurrection and that it could only be in that city which God had prepared years before it even existed. Genesis 3:15 is a prophecy about this very day that came to fruition thousands of years later at the cross on that Day of Passover. And that is why it was referred to as "the holy city" -- not that he loved it so much but that was to be the city God's Son was to die in.

b. In verse 31, it is the Pharisees that were saying to Jesus should leave town because Herod wanted to kill him. It was Jesus that was in full control of the manner in which he was to be crucified and just who those were that insisted on Him being killed. This is also a parallel to the same that occurred between Peter and Himself in Matt 16:21-23 which says...

"From that time Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised. And Peter took him and began to rebuke him, saying, "God forbid, Lord! This shall never happen to you." But he turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me; for you are not on the side of God, but of men."​

c. So just as Peter tried to keep Jesus from being killed there were also a few Pharisees that did not want Jesus killed. It was Herod that wanted Jesus killed.

~ Matthew 24:11 "And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray."
~ 1 John 4:1 "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are of God; for many false prophets have gone out into the world."
​

Lastly, I give you this verse that proves he achieved his goal:

Hebrews 10:12-13 "But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet."​

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

Where is any scripture to prove AMill?
It is nothing more than opinion that the thousand years mentioned six times in Rev 20, is not exactly as stated.

. I will debate this point but for the sake of perhaps neutral people who have not taken a side but never to the point of never ending exhaustion that will never change anyones position. At this point leaving the discussion is your best option.

 

[ShineyDays2]

Hi that passage about pearls and a certain animal applies to this thread.

You are out of line and should be reported.

At this point leaving the discussion is your best option.

I agree... if applied to yourself....

 

[sovereigngrace]

Where is any scripture to prove AMill?
It is nothing more than opinion that the thousand years mentioned six times in Rev 20, is not exactly as stated.

Not so. Quite the opposite.

Countless climactic Scriptures have been given to prove that the coming of Christ is the end. You have dismissed each of these. That is wrong.

Multiple times we have showed you that "a thousand" and "a thousand years" are constantly used in a figurative sense. You have dismissed each of these. That is wrong.

Multiple times we have showed you that the detail presented in Revelation 20 relates to the intra-Advent period- from the "first resurrection " of of Christ to the second coming and general resurrection/judgment of mankind. You have dismissed each of these. That is wrong.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Hi that passage about pearls and a certain animal applies to this thread.

I will debate this point but for the sake of perhaps neutral people who have not taken a side but never to the point of never ending exhaustion that will never change anyones position. At this point leaving the discussion is your best option.

Your calling Amils pigs is extremely offensive and against board rules.

Why can you or no Premil address the Op? Because the points presented are spot on. They have been built up over 21 years. If they were off then you would be able to refute them, but you have not. That is sufficient testimony to their veracity.

 

[keras]

I give you this verse that proves he achieved his goal:

Hebrews 10:12-13 "But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet."

This verse proves the opposite to what you believe.
Jesus isn't ruling the earth now, as AMills like to think. He is in heaven awaiting His enemies to be destroyed, as they will be, from the Sixth Seal to the 7th Bowl; finally at Armageddon. Revelation 16:16-18
THEN Jesus will Return as the King of Kings and Lord of Lords and will reign for the next 1000 years, His reward. As Psalm 2:8 says.

As for the correct interpretation of Luke 13:32-33, like most prophetic scripture it is possible to wrest any desired meaning out of it.
I believe that in verse 32, Jesus is prophesying the 2000 year Christian age, when He will spiritually work with us, Matthew 28:20, and then His reign on earth for the final 1000 years of mans dispensation.

Countless climactic Scriptures have been given to prove that the coming of Christ is the end. You have dismissed each of these. That is wrong.

Those 'climatic prophesies', ALL relate to the Lord's terrible Day of fiery wrath., several years before the Return.
Proved by the 3 main prophesies which describe Jesus Return; Zechariah 14:3, Matthew 24:30 and Revelation 19:11 NONE of then say it is end then. Revelation 20 goes on to describe the Millennium and only after that, comes the final Judgment.

Multiple times we have showed you that "a thousand" and "a thousand years" are constantly used in a figurative sense. You have dismissed each of these.

Figurative does not apply to a specific number, repeated six times.

Multiple times we have showed you that the detail presented in Revelation 20 relates to the intra-Advent period- from the "first resurrection " of of Christ to the second coming and general resurrection/judgment of mankind.

Reality proves that we are not in the Millennium now. Satan is still able to deceive people and Jesus is not yet the King of the world.

That is wrong.

The AMill belief is wrong and those who believe it are unprepared for what will happen, in the imminent end times events.

 

[ShineyDays2]

As for the correct interpretation of Luke 13:32-33, like most prophetic scripture it is possible to wrest any desired meaning out of it.

Of which false messengers do quite well as "wrest" is defined as...

www.thefreedictionary.com › wrestWrest - definition of wrest by The Free Dictionary
Define wrest. wrest synonyms, wrest pronunciation, wrest translation, English dictionary definition of wrest. to usurp forcefully; to extract by guile or persistence
​

I believe that in verse 32, Jesus is prophesying the 2000 year Christian age, when He will spiritually work with us, Matthew 28:20, and then His reign on earth for the final 1000 years of mans dispensation.

God gave us all the freedom to believe anything we want to believe. Those who do not desecrate God's word are in one group and those who do are in another group. I am in the group that would never do to that verse what we see here --- EVER!

Still waiting for your verses within Luke 14:32-33 that no commentators, lexiconist, book writers, pastors, theologians on earth have ever distorted the intent of that text the way you do. I see also that you ignored the full context that further supports my points and where they shred your "opinion" to pieces because that is all it really is....man's opinion; not the Word of God.

Oh, your use of Mt 28:20 has absolutely NOTHING to do with Luke 13:32-33 as you will see...

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age."
​

Revealed again for misuse of scripture. Continuing to do so only proves to us that you are grasping at straws now.

​

 

[sovereigngrace]

Those 'climatic prophesies', ALL relate to the Lord's terrible Day of fiery wrath., several years before the Return.
Proved by the 3 main prophesies which describe Jesus Return; Zechariah 14:3, Matthew 24:30 and Revelation 19:11 NONE of then say it is end then. Revelation 20 goes on to describe the Millennium and only after that, comes the final Judgment.

There are no survivors at His return, something you refuse to acknowledge. That is because it exposes the error of your position. You reference passages that are climactic and shows the destruction of all flesh, thus forbidding Premil.

Figurative does not apply to a specific number, repeated six times.

Reality proves that we are not in the Millennium now. Satan is still able to deceive people and Jesus is not yet the King of the world.

Again, you keep repeating this error and keep ignoring the rebuttals. It doesn't matter if it says it 666 times. We are looking at a highly symbolic setting, with highly symbolic numerology.

The AMill belief is wrong and those who believe it are unprepared for what will happen, in the imminent end times events.

Again, you totally ignore what I wrote. You have to, because it is true

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Where is any scripture to prove AMill?

It has been shown to you a thousand times (you'll probably take my statement literally). And you ignore it every time instead of doing anything to refute it.

For example, 2 Peter 3:3-13 clearly portrays the COMPLETE burning up of the entire earth at the second coming of Christ and you deny that without even remotely coming close to proving otherwise. In 2 Peter 3:13 Peter indicates that it is the new heavens and new earth that will fulfill the promise of His second coming, but you deny that and think that some supposed earthly millennial kingdom will be the fulfillment of the promise of His second coming instead.

We also have shown you clear scripture which indicates that Christ reigns now and that we are priests in His kingdom now (Rev 1:5-6, 1 Peter 2:9) and you completely ignore those. You have been shown scripture which clearly teaches only one future judgment day (Matt 25:31-46, Acts 17:30-31, etc.) and you ignore those. I could go on and on.

You are completely unable to refute the many scriptures that we Amils use to support our view and yet you have the gall to ask "Where is any scripture to prove Amill?". That is hilarious.

 

[jeffweedaman]

The AMill belief is wrong and those who believe it are unprepared for what will happen, in the imminent end times events.

Amills are much more prepared than Premills.
What we Amills preach is
1) "today" is the day of salvation .
2) Do not let him find you sleeping when he comes.
3) Repent or Perish

Premills preach the opposite of all those things.
1) Tomorrow you can get saved in the future millennium.
2) Doesnt matter if you are sleeping you will survive to believe another day.
3) Repent or maybe Perish.

 

[keras]

Amos 9:13-15 The time is surely coming, says the Lord, when the one who plows shall overtake the one who reaps, and the treader of grapes, the one who sows the seed; the mountains shall drip sweet wine, all the hills shall flow with it. I will restore the fortunes of My people, Israel, and they shall rebuild the ruined cities and inhabit them; they shall plant vineyards and drink their wine, and they shall make gardens and eat their fruit. I will plant them upon their Land and they shall never again be plucked up out of the Land I have given them.


That scripture promises restoration for a devastated land and a scattered people and it does so in a beautiful description of overflowing fertility in field and vineyard along with an unqualified pledge of “never again” for His faithful people, from every tribe, race nation and language, Revelation 5:9-10, Isaiah 66:18b-21, to be dispossessed.

Bible prophecy refers to a divinely established Utopia (Greek- good place) in which, God puts an end to this world of injustice and unrighteousness on earth and replaces it with a world of justice and righteousness on earth.

This end times Kingdom is the covenantal kingdom, brought to its ultimate perfection and ideal consummation, here on earth. Hebrews 8:8-12 It will last for 1000 years, as Revelation 20 clearly informs us.

Daniel 7:27 The Kingly power, sovereignty and greatness of all the Kingdoms under heaven will be given to the Holy people of the Most High. Their Kingly power will last for ever and every realm will serve and obey them.


So, how will the God of justice and righteousness treat the Gentiles in establishing this utopian Kingdom on earth?

Micah 4:1-2 In days to come, the Lords House will tower above the hills. The nations will stream toward it, saying; Let us go to the House of Jacob’s God, that He may teach us His ways, for instruction comes from Zion. [and in Isaiah 2:2-4, Zechariah 14:16-21]

Zechariah 8:20 Nations and dwellers in many cities will come to Jerusalem to entreat the favor of the Lord.

Those warlike and idol worshipping peoples will be converted to godly worship, under a God of justice and peace. They will not become Christian Israelites, but all will live together under King Jesus. This will be the situation after Jesus Returns, during His Millennium rule.

But we know from the many prophesies like Amos 9:13-15, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Isaiah 62:1-5, that the time is coming when all the Lord’s faithful Christian people will go to live in all of the holy Land, BEFORE the Return of Jesus. They will, at last, be as God always intended His people to be, His witnesses and His Light to the nations. Isaiah 42:6, Isaiah 43:10, John 15:27, Isaiah 49:8, Matthew 5:14-16

Psalms 37:29 The righteous shall possess the Land and will live there forever.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Amills are much more prepared than Premills.
What we Amills preach is
1) "today" is the day of salvation .
2) Do not let him find you sleeping when he comes.
3) Repent or Perish

Premills preach the opposite of all those things.
1) Tomorrow you can get saved in the future millennium.
2) Doesnt matter if you are sleeping you will survive to believe another day.
3) Repent or maybe Perish.

Very well put bro!

 

[sovereigngrace]

Amos 9:13-15 The time is surely coming, says the Lord, when the one who plows shall overtake the one who reaps, and the treader of grapes, the one who sows the seed; the mountains shall drip sweet wine, all the hills shall flow with it. I will restore the fortunes of My people, Israel, and they shall rebuild the ruined cities and inhabit them; they shall plant vineyards and drink their wine, and they shall make gardens and eat their fruit. I will plant them upon their Land and they shall never again be plucked up out of the Land I have given them.


That scripture promises restoration for a devastated land and a scattered people and it does so in a beautiful description of overflowing fertility in field and vineyard along with an unqualified pledge of “never again” for His faithful people, from every tribe, race nation and language, Revelation 5:9-10, Isaiah 66:18b-21, to be dispossessed.

Bible prophecy refers to a divinely established Utopia (Greek- good place) in which, God puts an end to this world of injustice and unrighteousness on earth and replaces it with a world of justice and righteousness on earth.

This end times Kingdom is the covenantal kingdom, brought to its ultimate perfection and ideal consummation, here on earth. Hebrews 8:8-12 It will last for 1000 years, as Revelation 20 clearly informs us.

Daniel 7:27 The Kingly power, sovereignty and greatness of all the Kingdoms under heaven will be given to the Holy people of the Most High. Their Kingly power will last for ever and every realm will serve and obey them.


So, how will the God of justice and righteousness treat the Gentiles in establishing this utopian Kingdom on earth?

Micah 4:1-2 In days to come, the Lords House will tower above the hills. The nations will stream toward it, saying; Let us go to the House of Jacob’s God, that He may teach us His ways, for instruction comes from Zion. [and in Isaiah 2:2-4, Zechariah 14:16-21]

Zechariah 8:20 Nations and dwellers in many cities will come to Jerusalem to entreat the favor of the Lord.

Those warlike and idol worshipping peoples will be converted to godly worship, under a God of justice and peace. They will not become Christian Israelites, but all will live together under King Jesus. This will be the situation after Jesus Returns, during His Millennium rule.

But we know from the many prophesies like Amos 9:13-15, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Isaiah 62:1-5, that the time is coming when all the Lord’s faithful Christian people will go to live in all of the holy Land, BEFORE the Return of Jesus. They will, at last, be as God always intended His people to be, His witnesses and His Light to the nations. Isaiah 42:6, Isaiah 43:10, John 15:27, Isaiah 49:8, Matthew 5:14-16

Psalms 37:29 The righteous shall possess the Land and will live there forever.

As per normal, you try to explain away the clarity of the NT with your misinterpretation and misunderstanding of the OT. This is horrible hermeneutics.

 

[Timtofly]

Amills are much more prepared than Premills.
What we Amills preach is
1) "today" is the day of salvation .
2) Do not let him find you sleeping when he comes.
3) Repent or Perish

Premills preach the opposite of all those things.
1) Tomorrow you can get saved in the future millennium.
2) Doesnt matter if you are sleeping you will survive to believe another day.
3) Repent or maybe Perish.

Pre-mill does not teach this. No one "gets saved" in the Millennium. No one is lost in the Millennium.

Those sleeping will only survive if they get their head chopped off.

Repent or Perish.

Why do you trump up such nonsense?

The Millennium is a Holy Day. It is set aside to allow humanity to live as God intended before Adam disobeyed. Have Amil discovered some mechanism that makes them perfect, sinless, and holy so they can declare this time the Sabbath set apart and Holy in between the first and second comings?

For 1000 years Satan cannot talk to a single human. After the 1000 years Satan is allowed to talk to all humanity liked he talked to Eve and Adam. He is allowed a chance to convince them to question God and rebel. Those people, decieved like Eve was when she listened to Satan, will be incinerated by fire from Heaven.