Why do SDA preach

[Ceallaigh]

This should prove interesting. Steve Gregg is one of my favorite teachers. Although I have debated with him some regarding his stance on Lordship Salvation.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

This should prove interesting. Steve Gregg is one of my favorite teachers. Although I have debated with him some regarding his stance on Lordship Salvation.

This one is easy, God's Word wins and Pastor Doug. It's worth watching....

 

[tall73]

What God says from God's own mouth is final and cannot be altered or broken. Psalm 111:7, 8

Psa 111:7 The works of his hands are faithful and just; all his precepts are trustworthy;
Psa 111:8 they are established forever and ever, to be performed with faithfulness and uprightness.

Yes, all of His precepts. But Adventists do not observe all of His precepts. Because, like the others you are speaking to in this thread, they see some of them as fulfilled. For instance, the first fruits is a statute forever. Work is forbidden. But no one is claiming in this thread that we should observe it.

Lev 23:21 And you shall make a proclamation on the same day. You shall hold a holy convocation. You shall not do any ordinary work. It is a statute forever in all your dwelling places throughout your generations.

Proverbs 30:5,6 This includes God's holy laws that God personally wrote and is stored in the ark of the Most Holy in God's Temple.

Pro 30:5 Every word of God proves true; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.
Pro 30:6 Do not add to his words, lest he rebuke you and you be found a liar.

Indeed, all of His words are true. And yes, it includes the ten commandments. But it also includes all the commandments.

Yet some of those commandments you do not think have to be observed.

I noted, in response to your statement, that in context Psalm 89:34 is talking about the covenant with the house of David, fulfilled in Christ, who reigns on David's throne. You did not seem to dispute that. I pointed it out so that you could limit your evidence to the best examples of what you are saying.

If you state all of God's words are upheld, but then only observe some of them, (as do those you are speaking with as well), then the conversation needs to be about why some are still observed, and others are not, rather than general statements about all of God's words being upheld.

 

[tall73]

Definition of the New Moon
: the moon's phase when it is in conjunction with the sun so that its dark side is toward the earth
also : the thin crescent moon seen shortly after sunset for a few days after the actual occurrence of the new moon phase
2: the beginning of each Jewish month marked by a special liturgy

New moon is the beginning of the month. So from month to month and one Sabbath to another all flesh shall come to worship before me, declares the LORD.

I don't think you answered the question. Are ALL FLESH assembling on the Sabbath currently?

(Or on the new moon).

And if you simply take it as time periods, then it is month to month and week to week. I don't think that is what it is saying, given the texts already presented regarding assembly on the Sabbath (and new moon).

And you don't seem to think that is what it is saying either since you specifically note the Sabbath. But you treat the new moon differently.

 

[Adventist Heretic]

Psa 111:7 The works of his hands are faithful and just; all his precepts are trustworthy;
Psa 111:8 they are established forever and ever, to be performed with faithfulness and uprightness.

Yes, all of His precepts. But Adventists do not observe all of His precepts. Because, like the others you are speaking to in this thread, they see some of them as fulfilled. For instance, the first fruits is a statute forever. Work is forbidden. But no one is claiming in this thread that we should observe it (including me).

Lev 23:21 And you shall make a proclamation on the same day. You shall hold a holy convocation. You shall not do any ordinary work. It is a statute forever in all your dwelling places throughout your generations.

Proverbs 30:5,6 This includes God's holy laws that God personally wrote and is stored in the ark of the Most Holy in God's Temple.

Pro 30:5 Every word of God proves true; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.
Pro 30:6 Do not add to his words, lest he rebuke you and you be found a liar.

Indeed, all of His words are true. And yes, it includes the ten commandments. But it also includes all the commandments.

Yet some of those commandments you do not think have to be observed.

I noted, in response to your statement, that in context Psalm 89:34 is talking about the covenant with the house of David, fulfilled in Christ, who reigns on David's throne. You did not seem to dispute that. I pointed it out so that you could limit your evidence to the best examples of what you are saying.

If you state all of God's words are upheld, but then only observe some of them, (as do those you are speaking with as well), then the conversation needs to be about why some are still observed, and others are not, rather than general statements about all of God's words being upheld.

Tall I think this passage (Isa. 66) is the best case for the sabbath being the seal of God. The prophetic element of the Sabbath is in plain view. It is a sign of waiting for God to rule in Jerusalem rather then looking to the rules on earth to establish the Kingdom of God on earth by the state. God is restoring the his rule on the earth and sabbath is a sign of that.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Psa 111:7 The works of his hands are faithful and just; all his precepts are trustworthy;
Psa 111:8 they are established forever and ever, to be performed with faithfulness and uprightness.

Yes, all of His precepts. But Adventists do not observe all of His precepts. Because, like the others you are speaking to in this thread, they see some of them as fulfilled. For instance, the first fruits is a statute forever. Work is forbidden. But no one is claiming in this thread that we should observe it (including me).

Lev 23:21 And you shall make a proclamation on the same day. You shall hold a holy convocation. You shall not do any ordinary work. It is a statute forever in all your dwelling places throughout your generations.

Proverbs 30:5,6 This includes God's holy laws that God personally wrote and is stored in the ark of the Most Holy in God's Temple.

Pro 30:5 Every word of God proves true; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.
Pro 30:6 Do not add to his words, lest he rebuke you and you be found a liar.

Indeed, all of His words are true. And yes, it includes the ten commandments. But it also includes all the commandments.

Yet some of those commandments you do not think have to be observed.

I noted, in response to your statement, that in context Psalm 89:34 is talking about the covenant with the house of David, fulfilled in Christ, who reigns on David's throne. You did not seem to dispute that. I pointed it out so that you could limit your evidence to the best examples of what you are saying.

If you state all of God's words are upheld, but then only observe some of them, (as do those you are speaking with as well), then the conversation needs to be about why some are still observed, and others are not, rather than general statements about all of God's words being upheld.

We have and if you follow along on these conversations many of the SDA posters discuss how we are no longer under the obligation of meat and burnt offerings according to scriptures Hebrews 13: 9-12. Are you saying we are still required to offer animal sacrifices?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I don't think you answered the question. Are ALL FLESH assembling on the Sabbath currently?

(Or on the new moon).

And if you simply take it as time periods, then it is month to month and week to week. I don't think that is what it is saying, given the texts already presented regarding assembly on the Sabbath (and new moon).

And you don't seem to think that is what it is saying either since you specifically note the Sabbath. But you treat the new moon differently.

All flesh means just that- everyone who is saved. This is not now this is on the New Heaven and New Earth. But NOW we should worship our Savior from one Sabbath to another on His holy day. Exodus 20:8-11

It means exactly what it says. Sorry if you disagree.

 

[Ceallaigh]

No sir. You can not do that in any way. You can not change what I think as what I KNOW comes from the Word of God and that never changes my friend.

It is that you argue for something that is SDA doctrine and not Bible truth. THAT is the concern.

All of you SDA believers want to keep the Old Testament law, but you are not keeping the law with the same seriousness. In reality.....The commandment of the Sabbath required you to do no work. You couldn’t pick up sticks, you couldn’t travel past a Sabbath’s day journey, you couldn’t go get food on the Sabbath, you could not start a fire, if your mule fell into a ditch you would have to let him drown because the law would not allow you to help him neither would it allow you to save your own child if he fell into that same ditch.

So the question is....why follow the Sanbbath if you will not follow ALL of the Law ??????

That is very hypocritical. Dont you think???

Many people want to hold on to the Old Testament styled Sabbath, but do not obey the Old Testament styled Sabbath. Many, I am assuming that YOU are cooking, traveling, going to the market, doing yard work, and more all on the Sabbath. Where do we draw the line?

It would seem ironic if I keep the sabbath better than sabbatarians.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

It would seem ironic if I keep the sabbath better than sabbatarians.

Typically people who want to honor God's Sabbath would not try to make arguments against God's chosen holy day.

 

[Major1]

Paul tells us what matters is keeping God's laws which includes the 4th commandment. 1 Corinthians 7:19

Some CF posters tells what matters is not keeping God's laws.

I am going with Paul on this one.

Colossians 2:16 —
“Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.”

All scholars agree that Paul here refers to yearly feasts, monthly rituals and weekly Sabbath worship. These are representative of all the Jewish religious rituals.

In Ezekiel 40-48 he was given a of a new temple in Jerusalem. Much detail is given about this temple, and in those Scripture verses he explains who is responsible to provide the offerings for “the festivals, the New Moons and the Sabbaths.” These are the yearly feasts, the monthly rituals and the weekly Sabbath worship. These briefly summarize the Jewish religious celebrations.

The Laws of Moses, including the Sabbath, were never commanded to anyone except the Jewish nation of Israel. We see this in passages like Exodus 16:23-30; Exodus 20:2-11; Deuteronomy 5:1-21; Exodus 31:12-17; Leviticus 19:1, 30.

 

[Major1]

It would seem ironic if I keep the sabbath better than sabbatarians.

I would say that a lot of us do exactly that, but we do not make it a requirement of the worship of Christ.

I know that for myself.....the witnessing and preaching of Christ so as men can be saved, far exceeds the idea of a Holy day that was given to the JEWS.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Colossians 2:16 —
“Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.”

All scholars agree that Paul here refers to yearly feasts, monthly rituals and weekly Sabbath worship. These are representative of all the Jewish religious rituals.

In Ezekiel 40-48 he was given a of a new temple in Jerusalem. Much detail is given about this temple, and in those Scripture verses he explains who is responsible to provide the offerings for “the festivals, the New Moons and the Sabbaths.” These are the yearly feasts, the monthly rituals and the weekly Sabbath worship. These briefly summarize the Jewish religious celebrations.

The Laws of Moses, including the Sabbath, were never commanded to anyone except the Jewish nation of Israel. We see this in passages like Exodus 16:23-30; Exodus 20:2-11; Deuteronomy 5:1-21; Exodus 31:12-17; Leviticus 19:1, 30.

Colossians has been addressed many times, but if you think this one verse wipes out one of God's 10 commandments written by the finger of God on stone and the other 170+ Sabbath scriptures, than you are really going out of your way to ignore God's Word.

There is more than one Sabbath in the bible. The context here is about food and drink. The yearly annual sabbath(s) feast days is about food and drink. This scripture is not talking about God's weekly Sabbath that points to creation Genesis 2:1-3 and is a commandment of God that is eternal Exodus 20:8-11.

Do you really think God's only holy day is for the Jews only and not anyone else? God only made a sign with Jews and no one else? God thinks its okay for everyone to vain His name, worship other gods, commit adultery, steal but not Jews? Heaven will have Jews worship God on His holy Sabbath day and everyone else when they feel like it? Jesus said the Sabbath was made for Jews. Actually He said man. Mark 2:27

 

[Major1]

All flesh means just that- everyone who is saved. This is not now this is on the New Heaven and New Earth. But NOW we should worship our Savior from one Sabbath to another on His holy day. Exodus 20:8-11

It means exactly what it says. Sorry if you disagree.

You said........
"But NOW we should worship our Savior from one Sabbath to another on His holy day." Exodus 20:8-11

But what does Exodus 20:8-11 actually says????
"Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it."

This is the perfect example of "deceptive" false teaching which YOU have given in to.

I call attention to all who are reading these posts. YOU SAID....."But NOW we should worship our Savior from one Sabbath" and you quoted Ex. 20:8-11.

But all who read the literal words can see....there is NO MENTION of WORSHIP in those Scriptures.

We as Christians should worhip Jesus Christ every single day and I agree with that.

However....."Worship" is NOT in those Scriptures.

 

[mmksparbud]

So EGW never said she received messages from an angel and had prophetic visons regarding sabbath keeping? But instead it just came to her from people?

Hey---Quite doing that! You are twisting what I said ---I do not appreciate that! I already said she confirmed the doctrines -- did not dictate them. Yes, she had communications from God, through an angel. That is how they were confirmed after everyone had decided through intense study of the bible. They gave the bible reasons for their decisions, they were confirmed. She also had other visions. There are none that go against Biblical teaching.
As for the Mormons---yes, they have an angel of light that they claim told them what to believe. There is no where in their writings where this angels' statements were tested against the bible. I've countless debates with them when they were allowed to post here. They openly state that they test the bible by what the angels said---that is where we totally differ. We believe on testing what any angels may say by the bible. If it contradicts the bible---they are not of God. The say the writings of their prophets are what they go by, as the bible is inaccurate. But they will at the same time insist that what they believe is biblical. Throw out the bible and y0u have lost all ability to know the true word of God. No real angel of God would say that His word is inaccurate. It is we that translate inaccurately.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You said........
"But NOW we should worship our Savior from one Sabbath to another on His holy day." Exodus 20:8-11

But what does Exodus 20:8-11 actually says????
"Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it."

This is the perfect example of "deceptive" false teaching which YOU have given in to.

I call attention to all who are reading these posts. YOU SAID....."But NOW we should worship our Savior from one Sabbath" and you quoted Ex. 20:8-11.

But all who read the literal words can see....there is NO MENTION of WORSHIP in those Scriptures.

We as Christians should worhip Jesus Christ every single day and I agree with that.

However....."Worship" is NOT in those Scriptures.

You really don't understand the verses you quote at all. Only God's Word is true and if you think keeping holy a day God told us to work is fulfilling the 4th commandment, I pray you do more bible studies. If God is saying we are going to be doing something specifically on the New Earth- do you not think that is worthy of doing now? Especially worshipping our Savior on His holy day? That is not something I would mock but we do have free will.

 

[mmksparbud]

You are correct. There is no argument from me. However, to say that must then mean that you are a JEW.

Genesis 2:2-3.......
" By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day HE rested from all HIS work. Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it HE rested from all the work of creating that HE had done."

READ the Scripture. There is NO commandment made to the people and no mention of the word SABBATH. GOD rested not man.

The WORD SABBATH does not appear in Scripture until Exodus 20:8-10 when God spoke to the children of ISRAEL and told them.......
“Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns.”

In the 2nd reading of the Law in Deuteronomy 5:12 God told those very same people....
“Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy, as the LORD your God has commanded you.”

First, salvation is by faith in Christ alone. It’s not kept by things that you do.

Second, early Christians met on the first day of the week. They met on Sunday in honor of the resurrection of Christ. Nowhere in Scripture does it say that the Sabbath changed from Saturday to Sunday.

Acts 20:7..........
“On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight.”

Sabbath was originally given to the Jewish people. It pointed to a future day when Jesus would die on a cross. In the Old Testament, man approached God on the basis of animal sacrifice. He fell short.

All you have to do is produce one verse that states we are to worship on the first day of the week. All there is are verses that the 7th day of the week is God's day. He created it, and the word "rest" is actually translated ceased in the original Hebrew.

2 and~he~will~much~FINISH(V) (וַיְכַל / wai'khal) Elohiym (אֱלֹהִים / e'lo'him) in~the~DAY (בַּיּוֹם / ba'yom) the~SEVENTH (הַשְּׁבִיעִי / hash'vi'i) BUSINESS~him (מְלַאכְתּוֹ / mê'lakh'to) WHICH (אֲשֶׁר / a'sher) he~did~DO(V) (עָשָׂה / a'sah) and~he~will~CEASE(V) (וַיִּשְׁבֹּת / wai'yish'bot) in~the~DAY (בַּיּוֹם / ba'yom) the~SEVENTH (הַשְּׁבִיעִי / hash'vi'i) from~ALL (מִכָּל / mi'kol) BUSINESS~him (מְלַאכְתּוֹ / mê'lakh'to) WHICH (אֲשֶׁר / a'sher) he~did~DO(V) (עָשָׂה / a'sah)

RMT: and Elohiym finished in the seventh day his business which he did, and he ceased in the seventh day from all his business which he did,

 

[Ceallaigh]

Hey---Quite doing that! You are twisting what I said ---I do not appreciate that!

Yeah, I put that in the form of a question to seek clarity. I'll try remember to word things more carefully from now on so that it doesn't appear that way to you.

I already said she confirmed the doctrines -- did not dictate them. Yes, she had communications from God, through an angel. That is how they were confirmed after everyone had decided through intense study of the bible. They gave the bible reasons for their decisions, they were confirmed. She also had other visions. There are none that go against Biblical teaching.
As for the Mormons---yes, they have an angel of light that they claim told them what to believe. There is no where in their writings where this angels' statements were tested against the bible. I've countless debates with them when they were allowed to post here. They openly state that they test the bible by what the angels said---that is where we totally differ. We believe on testing what any angels may say by the bible. If it contradicts the bible---they are not of God. The say the writings of their prophets are what they go by, as the bible is inaccurate. But they will at the same time insist that what they believe is biblical. Throw out the bible and y0u have lost all ability to know the true word of God. No real angel of God would say that His word is inaccurate. It is we that translate inaccurately.

Well actually regarding the Mormons, one person they call their profit (the same way an SDA member referred to EGW as "our prophetess") said he received messages from an angle which he then passed on to the people who believed him. I still have to wonder why in both cases, why God would wait until the 19th century to send an angel with such important messages. Although I'm sure both LDS and SDA have a good explanation for it. While I don't think SDA is as unbiblical as LDS, things I hear from SDA members remind me of things I've heard from Mormon missionaries.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Yeah, I put that in the form of a question to seek clarity. I'll try remember to word things more carefully from now on so that it doesn't appear that way to you.



Well actually regarding the Mormons, one person they call their profit (the same way an SDA member referred to EGW as "our prophetess") said he received messages from an angle which he then passed on to the people who believed him. I still have to wonder why in both cases, why God would wait until the 19th century to send an angel with such important messages. Although I'm sure both LDS and SDA have a good explanation for it. While I don't think SDA is as unbiblical as LDS, things I hear from SDA members remind me of things I've heard from Mormon missionaries.

This is how you know it's coming from God.
Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them

I think the Mormons have their own book for their teachings. The SDA church goes off the teachings of the bible.

 

[BobRyan]

Bob.....we have had this same discussion several times. Why spend any more time on something we will never change?

I have come to realize that when I post in response to something you say - you think I am trying to change your mind on what you believe.

No sir. You can not do that in any way. You can not change what I think...

hmm - so then we both agree I am not posting to try and change your mind. I like that we have agreement on that point.

I post so readers can "see the contrast" between the kind of statements you are making - and what I am saying.

So the question is....why follow the Sanbbath if you will not follow ALL of the Law ??????

That is very hypocritical. Dont you think???

Your logic is flawed. Even the Baptist Confession of Faith sectn 19 and the Westminster Confession of Faith sectn 19 note this same flaw in your statement as we see Paul also exposing in 1 Cor 7:19 when he says "circumcision does not matter - but what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" - where "Honor your father and mother is the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2 in that still valid unit of TEN -

So when Heb 10:4-11 says the animal sacrifice laws end - but not the command "do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 -- those "confessions of faith" also admit the same thing. The Commandments of God remain.

Right where you come up with "all you SDA..."

It is that you argue for something that is SDA doctrine and not Bible truth. THAT is the concern.

All of you SDA believers want to

It turns out that in fact it is Bible scholars in almost all Christian denominations on planet Earth that agree that the TEN from EX 20 - do remain while animal sacrifice laws end at the cross.

Do you see now why I enjoy this opportunity to contrast our two points of view?

 

[Adventist Heretic]

Colossians 2:16 —
“Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.”

put it in its context, who is paul talking to and who is he talking about? Paul is talking about Jews judging you not other Christians.

in vs 6-9 he is talking about greek/roman/pagan philosophy and religion , and how Christ defeats those systems and authorities,

in vs 8-15 he turn his attention to the Jewish problems they are facing The Jews are telling them they are not practicing the faith the right way, you are not sacrificing and you are not circumcising, you are not reconciled back to God and you are not meeting the requirement to have the blessing of the covenant. Paul comes in and says Christ has become your circumcision and you sacrifice for you, so you are OK as far as reconciliation and blessings go. Now because you are reconciled by Christ, don't let the Jews tell you other wise. Now concerning the cermonial stuff do let the Jews tell you how to observe them. It is not saying don't observe them. that is a wrong conclusion

Col 2
2 I want you to know how hard I am contending for you and for those at Laodicea, and for all who have not met me personally. 2 My goal is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, 3 in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. 4 I tell you this so that no one may deceive you by fine-sounding arguments. 5 For though I am absent from you in body, I am present with you in spirit and delight to see how disciplined you are and how firm your faith in Christ is.

Spiritual Fullness in Christ
6 So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live your lives in him, 7 rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught, and overflowing with thankfulness.

8 See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ.

9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, 10 and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority. 11 In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.

13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. 15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

All scholars agree that Paul here refers to yearly feasts, monthly rituals and weekly Sabbath worship. These are representative of all the Jewish religious rituals.

In Ezekiel 40-48 he was given a of a new temple in Jerusalem. Much detail is given about this temple, and in those Scripture verses he explains who is responsible to provide the offerings for “the festivals, the New Moons and the Sabbaths.” These are the yearly feasts, the monthly rituals and the weekly Sabbath worship. These briefly summarize the Jewish religious celebrations.

The Laws of Moses, including the Sabbath, were never commanded to anyone except the Jewish nation of Israel. We see this in passages like Exodus 16:23-30; Exodus 20:2-11; Deuteronomy 5:1-21; Exodus 31:12-17; Leviticus 19:1, 30.