12 Mississippi children in ICU, 10 on ventilators

[ArmenianJohn]

Yes you did.
“No, you remained ambiguous although you strongly implied that the US government is ungodly due to abortion and therefore Romans 13 is not applicable to such an ungodly government.”

Right, I never said you claimed it.

 

[Hammster]

Right, I never said you claimed it.

Lol. Okay. I implied it, but didn’t claim it.

You have a good day now.

 

[d taylor]

what's your point?

That since that offer of satan, i do not see anywhere in The Bible, that anything has changed. That satan (if true that his offer was not a lie) is still in possession of the kingdoms of the world. Including america even though it was not around at the time of his offer to the Messiah.

 

[anna ~ grace]

We must protect Americans' freedom to die of a preventable disease.

Yes. The freedom to choose how one is treated, the freedom to choose to make up one’s own mind even if it costs one their life, the freedom to view eternal life and salvation and Church life as more important than health or than physical life is important. We should safeguard that right.

 

[d taylor]

"a condemnation"

In the context with Paul speaking of government, judgment fits better, as only God can hand out damnation.

But any believer should know that there is only one way a person receives damnation. That is, that they never trust in The Messiah for Gods free gift of Eternal life. That is a persons only ticket to the lake of fire.

con·dem·na·tion
/ˌkändəmˈnāSH(ə)n/ noun

1. the expression of very strong disapproval; censure

dam·na·tion
/damˈnāSH(ə)n/ noun

1. (in Christian belief) condemnation to eternal punishment in hell.
   "sins that risk eternal damnation"

 

[ArmenianJohn]

That since that offer of satan, i do not see anywhere in The Bible, that anything has changed. That satan (if true that his offer was not a lie) is still in possession of the kingdoms of the world. Including america even though it was not around at the time of his offer to the Messiah.

What does this have to do with government though?

Satan offered what wasn't his. Satan is the father of lies - I would think you knew that having quoted the verse that says so. Satan is given power over the world but not ultimate power or possession - that forever is God's. Satan's power and dominion are contingent upon God's permission. God says in His Word that earthly governments are His ministers to do good.

So again, what does any of your recounting of Satan's offer to Christ have to do with this thread? Nothing.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

In the context with Paul speaking of government, judgment fits better, as only God can hand out damnation.

It means the same thing in this verse. Both words come from the same root:
condemn (v.)
early 14c., condempnen "to blame, censure;" mid-14c., "pronounce judgment against," from Old French condamner, condemner "to condemn" (11c.) and directly from Latin condemnare, condempnare "to sentence, doom, blame, disapprove," from assimilated form of com-, here perhaps an intensive prefix (see com-), + damnare "to harm, damage" (see damn (v.)). Replaced Old English fordeman.

You're playing games with semantics. The word damnation was from the Elizabethan translators of the Bible and is correct. The word condemnation is also correct, as is the word judgment used in context here.

And in my Bible which is in Armenian and called the "Queen of translations" for its accuracy it is th same word we would use for either condemnation or damnation.

But any believer should know that there is only one way a person receives damnation. That is, that they never trust in The Messiah for Gods free gift of Eternal life. That is a persons only ticket to the lake of fire.

con·dem·na·tion
/ˌkändəmˈnāSH(ə)n/ noun

1. the expression of very strong disapproval; censure

dam·na·tion
/damˈnāSH(ə)n/ noun

1. (in Christian belief) condemnation to eternal punishment in hell.
   "sins that risk eternal damnation"

And you conveniently left out that condemnation is a synonyn:
"synonyms:
condemnation to hell · eternal punishment · perdition · doom · hellfire · curse "
damnation - Bing

But this is an issue of semantics. In Elizabethan English the word damnation did not necessarily mean eternal damnation, even though that's how we use the word today. The point is that the condemnation received is God's, even if it is via the government's ruling.

 

[pitabread]

the freedom to choose to make up one’s own mind even if it costs one their life

The problem is that when dealing with a highly transmissible virus, such "freedom" can cost other people their lives.

What about everyone else's freedom to not be infected by irresponsible individuals?

 

[ArmenianJohn]

Yes. The freedom to choose how one is treated, the freedom to choose to make up one’s own mind even if it costs one their life, the freedom to view eternal life and salvation and Church life as more important than health or than physical life is important. We should safeguard that right.

Do you apply this idea that people deserve "The freedom to choose how one is treated, the freedom to choose to make up one’s own mind even if it costs one their life" when it comes to drinking and driving or smoking indoors?

 

[Hammster]

The problem is that when dealing with a highly transmissible virus, such "freedom" can cost other people their lives.

What about everyone else's freedom to not be infected by irresponsible individuals?

They are free to stay home.

 

[pitabread]

They are free to stay home.

You have that backwards. The people who don't want to get vaccinated should be the ones to stay home.

 

[Hammster]

You have that backwards. The people who don't want to get vaccinated should be the ones to stay home.

I never said “should”. I said they have the freedom to stay home.

 

[pitabread]

I never said “should”. I said they have the freedom to stay home.

Perhaps I misinterpreted your post. You're saying those who don't vaccinate have the freedom to stay at home?

 

[Hammster]

Perhaps I misinterpreted your post. You're saying those who don't vaccinate have the freedom to stay at home?

Those who are fearful of getting the virus are free to stay home. The rest of us will live our lives like normal.

 

[Oneiric1975]

Those who are fearful of getting the virus are free to stay home. The rest of us will live our lives like normal.

That isn't how it works.

While I agree one should do with their body what one feels most comfortable with, merely opting out of taking part in moderating the spread of the virus by insisting that OTHERS stay home is selfish and not helpful.

There are people who are unable to get the vaccine because of real health issues (immunocompromised individuals, whom I'm sure you would NOT want to trade places). And their health is OUR concern.

Those of us who CAN get the vaccine (or at least do SOMETHING to ensure we don't spread the virus around) it is on us to do what we can to help others.

The more people avoid doing what is necessary to stop the virus the more "variants" we will get and we will be rendered incapable of stopping the spread.

And if we don't do what we all can to stop the virus, we become complicit in harming those who are unable to do anything to stop the virus themselves.

 

[Hammster]

While I agree one should do with their body what one feels most comfortable with, merely opting out of taking part in moderating the spread of the virus by insisting that OTHERS stay home is selfish and not helpful.

Gotta stop you right here. I never insisted that anyone stay home. So if you’re going to quote me, please be courteous and deal with what I actually said.

 

[pitabread]

Those who are fearful of getting the virus are free to stay home. The rest of us will live our lives like normal.

Ah, so that is what you meant.

Not how that works. In a situation where you have a highly transmissible pathogen living your lives "like normal" is precisely the thing that puts everyone else at risk.

Part of the social contract involves understanding that we live in a society and our actions can and do impact everyone else. The uber-selfish attitude of those wanting to ignore the pandemic and do whatever they want is making things worse for everyone else.

Thus everyone else is allowed to say, "nope, you don't get to do that".

Or to put it another way, people can have the freedom to live how they want, but they also have the freedom to experience the consequences of that.

 

[Hammster]

Ah, so that is what you meant.

Not how that works. In a situation where you have a highly transmissible pathogen living your lives "like normal" is precisely the thing that puts everyone else at risk.

Part of the social contract involves understanding that we live in a society and our actions can and do impact everyone else. The uber-selfish attitude of those wanting to ignore the pandemic and do whatever they want is making things worse for everyone else.

Thus everyone else is allowed to say, "nope, you don't get to do that".

Or to put it another way, people can have the freedom to live how they want, but they also have the freedom to experience the consequences of that.

Again, those who are fearful are free to stay home.

 

[Oneiric1975]

Gotta stop you right here. I never insisted that anyone stay home. So if you’re going to quote me, please be courteous and deal with what I actually said.

I am confused. What did you mean by:

Those who are fearful of getting the virus are free to stay home. The rest of us will live our lives like normal.

Did you mean they have the CHOICE, not your insistence? But if they die if they go out that isn't a great choice, is it?

 

[Hammster]

I am confused. What did you mean by:

That those who are fearful of getting the virus have the liberty of staying home. I thought it was pretty unambiguous.