Salvation vs : service.

[GOD Shines Forth!]

That is only the believe of those who believe God is impotent to keep His Church that He loves.

God will always "keep" His. Have you noticed some of the things He allows them to experience along the way, though? Hello?

 

[GOD Shines Forth!]

The "birth" is referring to Paul.

"until Christ be formed in you" is referring to the Galatians' being conformed to Paul's presentation of Lord Jesus by the Gospel he preached to them.

I might have been stretching that one.

 

[setst777]

God will always "keep" His. Have you noticed some of the things He allows them to experience along the way, though? Hello?

Yes. History shows all that the Church suffered. The Early Church Christians, whom you feel turned apostate, suffered greatly at the hands of unbelievers.

The early Church Christians went through terrible trials, were burned at the stake for their faith, and fed to the lions, were tortured, imprisoned, and killed for their faith. Through all of this, the Early Church Fathers defended the faith against heretics.

So to say that the Early Church is "the worst to interpret him" is a slap in the face of these most faithful Early Church Christians who valiantly stood steadfast in the face of so many trials.

 

[GOD Shines Forth!]

Yes. History shows all that the Church suffered. The Early Church Christians, whom you feel turned apostate, suffered greatly at the hands of unbelievers.

The early Church Christians went through terrible trials, were burned at the stake for their faith, and fed to the lions, were tortured, imprisoned, and killed for their faith. Through all of this, the Early Church Fathers defended the faith against heretics.

So to say that the Early Church is "the worst to interpret him" is a slap in the face of these most faithful Early Church Christians who valiantly stood steadfast in the face of so many trials.

My point was, let Paul be Paul. Can you not understand what he wrote? I love his teaching. I have never consulted a "Church Father" to tell me what Paul said. He's very clear. That is, if you accept the "dispensation of the grace of God given to" him for you.

I'm heading to bed. Bless you and have a good rest.

 

[apollosdtr]

Jesus said some will believe for a while then they will fall away.

“Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭8:13‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

So stop trying to save yourself by believing. Lol

yes.
they had not "root".
This is the "root of jesse". Isaiah 11
This is the Root Himself, who is Jesus The Christ.

So, if you have no "root", you have no "Christ in you".

What nonsense, Sidon.

It's a Kingdom Gospel parable. Matthew 13:10-11

Matthew 13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

skandalizo = from skandalon; to entrap, i.e. trip up (figuratively, stumble (transitively) or entice to sin, apostasy or displeasure):--(make to) offend.

skandalon = a trap-stick (bent sapling), i.e. snare (figuratively, cause of displeasure or sin):--occasion to fall (of stumbling), offence, thing that offends, stumblingblock.

In other words, he may be invited, and maybe even gets chosen, but he's not faithful because he doesn't endure to the end. Revelation 17:14

 

[apollosdtr]

Legalism is the teaching that we are justified by our works. I have told you repeatedly that our works do not play any role in our salvation. What your doing is lying about me. If I’m a legalist then so are you for saying that we must believe in Christ in order to be saved. Your placing a stipulation on how to attain salvation by your own works.

Sidon might be putting you in the same category as me... because I do believe that we are justified by our works. Sorry about that... but not for what I believe.

He does seem a bit ambiguous at times. Probably due to the language and difference in the way people talked in that time period. We also have to consider that it is likely that a lot of what he writes to these people could be an inside reference to things he has said to them in the past. Things that we wouldn’t completely know about because they had received prior information about them. That’s why I think the earliest church writings can be helpful in interpreting his epistles because these men were able to follow the apostles for years and gather more knowledge than we have from the scriptures.

Some of it's shocking and what some would consider heretical, these days.

 

[apollosdtr]

In other words, Paul doesn't say the words "born again", or you'd've quoted it.

Now, Romans 10:13 and Acts 2:21 both quote from this:

Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out of My Spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your old men shall dream dreams, and your young men shall see visions. 29 And on My servants and on my handmaids in those days will I pour out of My Spirit. 30 And I will shew wonders in heaven, and upon the earth, blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke. 31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and glorious day of the Lord come. 32 And it shall come to pass that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved: for in mount Sion and in Jerusalem shall the saved one be as the Lord has said, and they that have glad tidings preached to them, whom the Lord has called.LXX

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Two very different gospels...
Galatians 2:7-9 Galatians 1:6 Galatians 3:2 John 14:15-17

Galatians 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

Galatians 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as [the gospel] of the circumcision [was] unto Peter;

Galatians 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

John 14:15 If ye love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you for ever; 17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth Him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know Him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Was there another gospel where the Holy Spirit is given by the works of law?

"My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you, I desire to be present with you now, and to change my voice; for I stand in doubt of you."--Galatians 4

Don't know if this passes muster but it came to me.

That's one of my least favorite verses ever... maybe I'm fixated on Matthew 23:9. Other than that, it makes no sense at all to me. How can he complain that they want to return to the law when he says they used to be heathens?(rhetorical) That whole chapter is chaos to my Kingdom-Gospel mind. Maybe I'm too logical to be a gospel-to-the-gentiles person. And yes, I know that some people call logic a gnosticism. But other people call imputation a mysticism. (shrug) I try to stay out of the $10 words arena, and focus on the meanings of the words and their connections. Jesus isn't talking to scholars, He's talking to little children. I'm good with that.

The "birth" is referring to Paul.

"until Christ be formed in you" is referring to the Galatians' being conformed to Paul's presentation of Lord Jesus by the Gospel he preached to them.

Yikes!

 

[Sidon]

Galatians 2:7-9

Be faithful and Jesus will give you eternal life.

If you want eternal life, you have to obey Jesus.

Jesus said, "You must be born again".

 

[Sidon]

No it’s been my experience that the believe only crowd are typically the new Christians.

The '"Believe only"" Crowd includes Paul, John, Jesus, and all the born again.

Which "crowd" are you in?

 

[Sidon]

But what? But He said that we must hear His words and act on them?d.

Jesus said you must be "born again".
This is the only thing that God does for you, that causes a Spiritual Birth.
Without this, you go to hell.

So, what does not achieve the "new birth". ?????

Everything you can name that is something you would do other than "believe".


Legalism, is the theology of deception that tries to both substitute works for Grace and deny the Cross by self effort.

 

[Sidon]

Legalism is the teaching that we are justified by our works. .

Everyone who believes that you can lose your salvation, is trying to keep it by doing works.
Do you understand this yet?
Why dont you?

Listen.. Whatever you believe keeps you out of hell, is your savior.

This means if you believe that "..."as long as i dont do that", or "as long as i do all that"....i go to heaven...
See that? That is your savior.

Here is another one.....>"If i endure to the end"....i get to go to heaven.
See that?
Enduring is your savior, as you BELIEVE IN IT..........

 

[Sidon]

Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven came before the gospel of grace to the gentiles

So do you plan on answering my question about your "enemies of the cross" statement?

Here is what you can believe.
If you are not born again, you are not going to heaven.
And the "gospel" that you have to believe, is "Jesus on the Cross".

Jesus told you that He is THE WAY, and He is not kidding. John 14:6
If you think there is another way, then you are in for a shock, as God has offered no other pardon for your sin, other than , Christ's Cross.
Believe it.

Also, i did answer your "enemies of the Cross" Question.
Want me to do it again?
NP.

An enemy of the Cross is anyone who adds to the Cross their gospel of self effort or commandment keeping.
Its a person who teaches that the Cross is a part of Salvation, but the commandments and their self effort is the completion.
See that?
This is denying the finished work of Jesus ON the Cross.
This is denying that "Jesus is THE WAY"
This is denying that the blood and death of Christ is the only thing that God accepts to accept you.
This theology is the subverting of the Gospel of the Grace of God.

 

[Sidon]

Yes I know that Jesus is the Savior, but......let me show you over here, how Lord Jesus instructs to stay saved:

You stay saved the same way you were saved.
The same blood of Jesus that saved you, keeps you saved
Once you are born again, you are always born again.

 

[Sidon]

32 And it shall come to pass that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved: called.LXX

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

?

What are you saying now..

Listen...

"call on the name" and "believing in Jesus".......are the same Things.

Who is the NAME of the Lord that you call on as found in Joel's prophecy of JESUS the coming Messiah.??

 

[Sidon]

One of these days I might find the time to look for where you posted this stuff the first time.

What is the subject or topic?
Ask a specific question, and i'll post it again.

 

[Sidon]

That’s not how I would define the grace gospel. I believe God will grant His grace to everyone. The thing I haven’t figured out is if God has already granted it to everyone or if He grants it to each individual at different times.

God's Grace is Christ on the Cross.
When you have Jesus in you, based on being born again, then this is God's Grace.
Salvation, is God's Grace.
Its offered to all but its only applied to those who are born again, which is THE PROOF it has occurred.
To become born again, is to Trust in Christ, or..>"All that call on the name of Jesus, shall be saved".

"be saved"..... this it to become born again, by God giving you the "new birth".

All of this, is God's Grace.

 

[Sidon]

It's a Kingdom Gospel parable. Matthew 13:10-11

The root of Jesse is Christ.
That's not a parable.
Isaiah, says that the spirit of God shall rest upon Him.
It did, and does.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Nyet. They are the worst to interpret him. Just let Paul be Paul. You either get him or you don't. It's a Gentile thing.

"Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; 26Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: 27To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: 28Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:"--Colossians 1

Students of the apostles who followed them for years are the worst interpreters?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Nyet. They are the worst to interpret him. Just let Paul be Paul. You either get him or you don't. It's a Gentile thing.

"Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; 26Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: 27To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: 28Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:"--Colossians 1

What is your point in quoting that verse?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Nyet. They are the worst to interpret him. Just let Paul be Paul. You either get him or you don't. It's a Gentile thing.

"Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; 26Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: 27To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: 28Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:"--Colossians 1

Paul passed on his knowledge to the church so that they may pass it on and so on and so on.