Quote on racism: Agree/Disagree and why?

[Belk]

Should we do that with Germans today? After all they were responsible for the Genocide of Gypsy's, the infirmed and Jews - what should be done with them?

Or How about the Japanese - they committed genocide in China

I think you will find that the Germans themselves do this and try to use it as a tool of atonement.

The Chinese have a fair amount of animosity towards the Japanese and there are still some wounds that wont heal because it is not acknowledged and dealt with.

Perhaps we could learn from these examples?

 

[hislegacy]

I think you will find that the Germans themselves do this and try to use it as a tool of atonement.

The Chinese have a fair amount of animosity towards the Japanese and there are still some wounds that wont heal because it is not acknowledged and dealt with.

Perhaps we could learn from these examples?

No - they did not assign atrocities to an entire race - and then hold their decendents accountable 100 plus years later.

 

[essentialsaltes]

There's nothing more racist than targeting an entire ethnic group with a collective crime regardless of the innocence or guilt of its individuals.​

​

I would disagree that that's THE most racist possible thing, but yes it's racist. It's why, for instance, I object to people conflating Palestinians with Hamas.

 

[iluvatar5150]

What I mentioned has nothing to do with what blacks suffered after slavery, it has to do with what blacks are doing TODAY!

lol wut? You jumped from slavery to fancy jewelry and skipped a century+ of oppression in between. Do you know where most middle class white wealth came from?

 

[durangodawood]

There's nothing more racist than targeting an entire ethnic group with a collective crime regardless of the innocence or guilt of its individuals.

~ Jordan Peterson (Canadian Clinical Psychologist)
​

Thoughts? Please address the statement above.

Considering other people not fully human on the basis of their race is more racist than that.

 

[grasping the after wind]

I greatly respect Peterson's command of logic, but that is a stupid statement (at least taken out of context as it is).

If a collective crime has been committed, then it is logical and practical to lay responsibility upon the entire ethnic group that committed the crime, "regardless of the innocence or guilt of its individuals."

The US literally did target entire ethnic groups in WWII. We know for a fact there were individual Germans who were opposed to the collective crimes of Germany and Japan. I've personally met some of those people. But it was practical and logical to lay responsibility upon the entire ethnic group, and as well, logical to recognize individuals who have separated (notice the perfect tense) themselves from that ethnic group.

I am very skeptical that their is such a thing as collective crime. If so, then is there collective sacrifice and does collective sacrifice work the same way? If collective sacrifices are made for the betterment of others do those that sacrifice nothing get the same credit as those that sacrifice their lives? How does one separate oneself form one's ethnic group? It seems an impossible thing to do. Can a German just become a Slav? If so, then what does one actually mean by ethnic group? We do know for a fact that there were Germans that opposed the crimes that were committed by other Germans. Are you sure you want to say that they are guilty of the crimes those other Germans committed just because of the fact they were born a certain ethnicity?

 

[durangodawood]

I am very skeptical that their is such a thing as collective crime.....

The you must be skeptical of corporations, which transfer many types of individual liability to the collective organization.

Its the same with a country, which is an institution that transcends individuals in that it persists over beyond the scope of individuals lifetimes and assumes many responsibilities and liabilities for acts committed essentially by individuals functioning as its agents.

 

[atpollard]

Then those specific individuals should be held accountable for their actions - not their grandchildren. Would you agree?

Winner!

 

[TLK Valentine]

Then those specific individuals should be held accountable for their actions - not their grandchildren. Would you agree?

That's not very Biblical...

 

[atpollard]

No - they did not assign atrocities to an entire race - and then hold their decendents accountable 100 plus years later.

Actually, it is worse than that. My ancestors were living in Wales until WW1, but I am still on the hook for slavery.

Do you know how many African slaves there were in wales? As far back a the Roman Empire, the Welsh WERE carried off as the slaves.

 

[RDKirk]

I am very skeptical that their is such a thing as collective crime. If so, then is there collective sacrifice and does collective sacrifice work the same way? If collective sacrifices are made for the betterment of others do those that sacrifice nothing get the same credit as those that sacrifice their lives?

Yes. That's why an entire military unit might get an award for work that only certain members executed. That's why "American privilege" still goes a long way in many parts of the world.

Also, corporations found guilty of crimes and torts, they are penalized corporately, generally with heavy fines that come out of all the stockholders' profits.

How does one separate oneself form one's ethnic group? It seems an impossible thing to do.

Do you really want to argue that an individual cannot separate himself from his original ethnic group? That would invalidate the concept of the Church. It would mean that you must judge an individual along with his ethnic group.

 

[RDKirk]

Actually, it is worse than that. My ancestors were living in Wales until WW1, but I am still on the hook for slavery.

Do you know how many African slaves there were in wales? As far back a the Roman Empire, the Welsh WERE carried off as the slaves.

No, they're not responsible for slavery. But they may share some responsibility in Jim Crow.

 

[Occams Barber]

How did the United States target, or lay responsibility upon all Germans and all Japanese during WW-2?

Through war reparations.

War reparations - Wikipedia

OB

 

[atpollard]

Lynching is abhorrent and should be prosecuted.

Holding the great grandchildren of those doing the lynching responsible for their actions is rediculous.

I completely agree.

It just seemed silly to say that “holding great grandchildren responsible” is MORE racist than the “lynching”.

 

[Aldebaran]

What about stealing the land of an indigenous race ?

What about enslaving those of another race ?

What about denying full citizenship to members of a particular race ?

Whatabout, whatabout, whatabout....

What about addressing the OP's statement and question instead of diverting attention to other issues?

 

[Ken-1122]

lol wut? You jumped from slavery to fancy jewelry and skipped a century+ of oppression in between.

I just think most of the financial problems of today has to do with the choices of today.

Do you know where most middle class white wealth came from?

The same place most middle class black wealth come from; today’s economy.

 

[Ken-1122]

Actually, it is worse than that. My ancestors were living in Wales until WW1, but I am still on the hook for slavery.

Who has you on the hook for slavery?

 

[Ken-1122]

Through war reparations.

War reparations - Wikipedia

OB

If the United States punished German and Japanese citizens after the war, IMO the US was wrong to do that. But then considering what they did to black folk back then; I am not surprised they would commit such actions

 

[Occams Barber]

If the United States punished German and Japanese citizens after the war, IMO the US was wrong to do that. But then considering what they did to black folk back then; I am not surprised they would commit such actions

War reparations have been a feature of war for centuries. They are not specific to WW2 or the US.

They are a recognition of the principle of the corporate responsibility of nation states.

If the past actions of a mining company resulted in the illegal pollution of your local waterways you would expect that company to contribute to the cost of fixing the problem. The directors may have changed and the stockholders may be a different group to when the pollution occurred. In spite of this you would still see the company as having a corporate responsibility to do what it could to fix the problem.

A nation is also a corporate entity with a responsibility for it's actions whether they involve unjustified war or the intentional mistreatment of minorities through action or inaction. It doesn't matter if you or your parents came from another place. As a citizen of the country, you are effectively a shareholder and you share in the corporate responsibility. This doesn't necessarily mean you share blame.

The measure of how far back this corporate responsibility should extend will depend on whether this past mistreatment still has a significant effect on the current population of the disadvantaged group.

As a matter of principle the state must accept responsibility for its own actions.

OB

 

[atpollard]

No, they're not responsible for slavery. But they may share some responsibility in Jim Crow.

How prevalent were Jim Crow laws in the Suburbs of Northern NJ after WW2? From history classes, I seem to remember them being mainly a Reconstruction Era tactic in the 19th Century that lingered into the 1950’s across the south in the form of “separate but unequal” facilities. There were issues with insurance and mortgage underwriting, but my family were chemists at Union Carbide, so we had nothing to do with that. (We are responsible for radar domes on night fighters, ugly black ‘Bakelite’ phones, Pampers, color in plastics, fire-retardant treatments and the IR invisible covers on Abrams Tank MGs. Since the 1980’s I have added Commercial Land Development of Auto Dealerships, Medical Centers, Hurricane Shelters, Fire Stations and Shopping Centers.)

Technically, the BLACK community owes my family a Gas Station from the Newark Riots in the 1960s. To whom do I apply to get reparations from every living African American that wasn’t there?