University of Chicago has a course called ‘The Problem of Whiteness'

[Landon Caeli]

Since you liked post #18 where @The IbanezerScrooge explained how we were all wrong and whiteness doesn't refer to white people lol....I'll just quote him...

Baldwin's point in the documentary from which it is derived is that "whiteness" is a construct that didn't really exist until America became a thing. Before, "white people" as a group didn't really apply to groups of people who were, physically, light skinned. They were Germans, French, Jews, Norwegians, Irish, Scotts, Danes, English, etc. It wasn't until the founding of America when "white people" became this homogenous group that seemed to ignore their own people group origins

That might be the literal worst attempt to explain why "whiteness" doesn’t refer to white people....because he's literally explaining how it's a social construct that refers to all white people lol.

Look at all the people who liked that post or gave it the "winner" medal lol. It's as if none of you realized that you agree 100% that it refers to white people.

Maybe it's not our white skin, but our "ways".. Our tendencies to act in a certain way as a result of our common European ancestry..? If such a thing even exists, though, if it does, then that means blackness describes certain tendencies that were rooted in Africa, and passed on. As well as Asians, and tribal traits passed on from American Indians that are still noticeable.

...I don't know, I'm just assuming.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Maybe it's not our white skin, but our "ways"..

Huh?

Our tendencies to act in a certain way as a result of our common European ancestry..? If such a thing even exists, though, if it does, then that means blackness describes certain tendencies that were rooted in Africa, and passed on. As well as Asians, and tribal traits passed on from American Indians that are still noticeable.

...I don't know, I'm just assuming.

I think the notion and examples of "ways" tend to be rather insulting. Being on time, for example, getting associated with whiteness.

 

[The IbanezerScrooge]

Since you liked post #18 where @The IbanezerScrooge explained how we were all wrong and whiteness doesn't refer to white people lol....I'll just quote him...

Baldwin's point in the documentary from which it is derived is that "whiteness" is a construct that didn't really exist until America became a thing. Before, "white people" as a group didn't really apply to groups of people who were, physically, light skinned. They were Germans, French, Jews, Norwegians, Irish, Scotts, Danes, English, etc. It wasn't until the founding of America when "white people" became this homogenous group that seemed to ignore their own people group origins

That might be the literal worst attempt to explain why "whiteness" doesn’t refer to white people....because he's literally explaining how it's a social construct that refers to all white people lol.

Look at all the people who liked that post or gave it the "winner" medal lol. It's as if none of you realized that you agree 100% that it refers to white people.

Dude. That's pretty twisted. You notice I put "white people" in quotes right? You literally took my words and twisted them around you're own personal biased negative interpretation of what the term "whiteness" must mean. I'm not usually one to say this, but go do your own research on the topic like I started. I mean I know you won't, but you should. Within the first 20 minutes of looking up and following resources on just the names of some of the people the professor of the course mentioned I formed an initial understanding of the context in which the course is being taught and why it might be of value. I firmly believe you are intentionally misinterpreting it and remain willfully ignorant of what this topic is actually about.

But you do you.

Literally none of us actually know what the course actually teaches because none of us have taken it. No one has linked a syllabus or a transcript or video of any class. It's all just about the term "whiteness" and how it makes people who identify with that term feel.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Huh?




I think the notion and examples of "ways" tend to be rather insulting. Being on time, for example, getting associated with whiteness.

Well, we see relaxed laws already, in places like Oregon, DC, Seattle, SF, to possibly accomodate multiculturalism? Whereas traditional European culture, and now American whiteness, tends to be overly strict, punctual, etc, maybe? According to some...? I'm not sure what's proper thinking anymore with these new ideas.

...Maybe someone could point us in another helpful direction.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Dude. That's pretty twisted. You notice I put "white people" in quotes right?

Yup.

You literally took my words and twisted them around you're own personal biased negative interpretation of what the term "whiteness" must mean.

I quoted you directly lol. Don't accuse me of "twisting your words" when I quoted you directly and kept all the relevant context.

I'm not usually one to say this, but go do your own research on the topic like I started.

Done it....years back when the word started popping up in articles about "abolishing whiteness". It's a racist dog whistle for "white people" and I appreciate your help in proving it.

I mean I know you won't, but you should.

I get that you're embarrassed that you tried to do the exact opposite of what you did....but don't take it out on me. It's not my fault. You tried to show that it means something other than white people....and ended up showing that it just means white people lol.

Within the first 20 minutes of looking up and following resources on just the names of some of the people the professor of the course mentioned I formed an initial understanding of the context in which the course is being taught and why it might be of value.

I'm sure you assumed a lot about the course.

I firmly believe you are intentionally misinterpreting it and remain willfully ignorant of what this topic is actually about.

Here's how I know that not only did I not misinterpret what you said....but you didn't realize you were proving the guy who called this class racist correct....

1. You haven't provided some alternative explanation for what "whiteness" means other than white people.

2. You haven't quoted my misinterpretation or the way I twisted your words (because I didn't, I could have just as easily used your entire post if I wanted). Instead, you just launched into a personal attack that doesn't amount to anything.

Again, I understand that you're embarrassed. It's not my fault though.

No one has linked a syllabus or a transcript or video of any class.

I think it's notable that the professor didn't link the syllabus as is typical for professors at the University of Chicago. It's as if the professor doesn't want that getting out there online.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Well, we see relaxed laws already, in places like Oregon, DC, Seattle, SF, to possibly accomodate multiculturalism?

I'm not sure what you mean by "relaxed laws".

Whereas traditional European culture, and now American whiteness, tends to be overly strict, punctual, etc, maybe?

I don't think it's fair to equate non-whites with being late. White people can be as late or later than anyone else....so even if being punctual or on time isn't in of itself a negative stereotype....its still racist imo.

According to some...? I'm not sure what's proper thinking anymore with these new ideas.

Is it so difficult to think for yourself?

Surely you don't need others to tell you what is right?

...Maybe someone could point us in another helpful direction.

In the words of Dr King...perhaps we should judge people by the content of their character. Unfortunately, this new racism seems awfully similar to the old racism....just pointed at a different group. It's already creeping into places like medicine and science and it's potentially disastrous.

 

[RDKirk]

Thanks for bringing that to the discussion. I did watch the James Baldwin doc "I Am Not Your Negro" a year or so ago. The concept of "whiteness" as an artificial distinction set up in opposition to dark ("inferior") people was explored there. And like you I found it fairly sensible.

But unfortunately we live in a world of knee jerk reaction and easily offended people as demonstrated by the OP. Sometimes I think its just best to cater to them if theres a good alternative word.

No, it's not just kneejerk reaction to words. It's more kneejerk reactions to how words and concepts are being redefined and redirected.

We can look at the origins of terms and concepts--like "whiteness" and "racism" and "white privilege" and "woke" and "toxic masculinity" "CRT" and "BLM" and even "woke"--and think, "Oh, that's not so bad."

But it's not the origins that count, it's how they are culturally weaponized today that counts. And this weaponization is not a factor of the right wing, but what occurs in universities that are overcrowded with sociology professors who have to reinvigorate old problems to keep their jobs.

 

[RDKirk]

Perhaps the course title itself drifts into the territory of "bait" and they should've picked a different title for it?

Benign subject matter with a provocative title seems like it could be bait. Basically stirring up a predictable backlash, only to then have the ability to shoot down the critiques later?

If by the instructors own words:
“The class is emphatically not about ‘the problem with white people,’” Journey said.

Seems like it's a poorly chosen course title.

Something like "Racial Components of American Life: A critical inquiry" or "The impact of racial biases in America" seem like fitting titles that don't go out of their way to stir up a predictable backlash.

Well, it's not about a problem with properly re-educated white people.

 

[RDKirk]

Since you liked post #18 where @The IbanezerScrooge explained how we were all wrong and whiteness doesn't refer to white people lol....I'll just quote him...

Baldwin's point in the documentary from which it is derived is that "whiteness" is a construct that didn't really exist until America became a thing. Before, "white people" as a group didn't really apply to groups of people who were, physically, light skinned. They were Germans, French, Jews, Norwegians, Irish, Scotts, Danes, English, etc. It wasn't until the founding of America when "white people" became this homogenous group that seemed to ignore their own people group origins

That might be the literal worst attempt to explain why "whiteness" doesn’t refer to white people....because he's literally explaining how it's a social construct that refers to all white people lol.

Look at all the people who liked that post or gave it the "winner" medal lol. It's as if none of you realized that you agree 100% that it refers to white people.

"Whiteness" only refers to white people who like mayonnaise in their potato salad and are punctual.

 

[Ana the Ist]

"Whiteness" only refers to white people who like mayonnaise in their potato salad and are punctual.

Lol I don't want a BLT that doesn't have a generous slathering of mayo on the top piece of toast.

Now when I eat a BLT....I gotta keep my head on a swivel and make sure no POCs are around, lest I become some sort of cultural stereotyped meme on the interwebs.

 

[Pommer]

"Whiteness" only refers to white people who like mayonnaise in their potato salad and are punctual.

I’m down with MIracle Whip for ‘tato salad, but there was this one time a ran out of butter for grilled chase and thought to use Hellman’s mayonnaise thinking “how bad could it be?”
Better, much, much better, not only taste-wise but ease of prep!
I’m sulking because I cannot find “real” sriracha, though, of late.

 

[wing2000]

Since you liked post #18 where @The IbanezerScrooge explained how we were all wrong and whiteness doesn't refer to white people lol....I'll just quote him...

Like I said, you made an assumption based on a course title. Now if you have some actual insights into the course content itself, I'm all ears.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Like I said, you made an assumption based on a course title. Now if you have some actual insights into the course content itself, I'm all ears.

I didn't make any assumptions....it's called the problem of whiteness. Twice in the course description it refers to whiteness as a problem.

It's a safe bet the course doesn't contain some glowingly positive depiction of whiteness lol. We don't need to put Sherlock Holmes on the case to find clues on what sort of depiction of "whiteness" the course contains.

Also, I haven't been in a coma for the past ten years, and you haven't either....so let's not pretend this is all some big mystery.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Is it so difficult to think for yourself?

Surely you don't need others to tell you what is right?

Lol. You don't understand what I meant. It's okay.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Lol. You don't understand what I meant. It's okay.

Maybe you could rephrase....

I'm not sure what's proper thinking anymore with these new ideas.

 

[RDKirk]

This article may show an appropriate way of addressing a "problem with whiteness," but I don't think a complete course could be drawn out of this theme.

There was a time when indentured servitude was the base of America’s economic model. Black and white indentured servants worked side by side, along with a relatively small number of Black enslaved people. Bacon’s Rebellion changed all that when those forces joined together and burned down Jamestown, VA. A new model was created, doing away with indentured servants and making enslaved Black people the new bottom rung of the ladder. Every white person was now above every Black person, and it became the responsibility of the lowest of white people to maintain that order. This was less race-based than class-based, with the primary beneficiaries being the upper classes. People began to celebrate their whiteness as never before, sometimes having nothing besides being white to give them status.

When the Only Thing You Have Going is Being White

 

[BPPLEE]

How often do suburban white kids get a lesson in being marginalized?
So, yeah.

So two wrongs make a right?

 

[Pommer]

So two wrongs make a right?

Experienced marginalization is a better learning tool that mere conceptualization.

 

[Lukaris]

It seems like at one time there used to at least some realistic analysis of poverty and race problems. Back in the mid 1990s, I read a book titled: When Work Disappears by William Julius Wilson. This book sensibly analyzed the loss of jobs, loss of habit of work etc. leads to break down of community & perpetuates poverty, crime etc. It seems like common sense has died and courses like this drivel have become an exercise in useless emotionalism.

When Work Disappears - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

William Julius Wilson - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[BPPLEE]

Experienced marginalization is a better learning tool that mere conceptualization.

Then I’m a well educated man.