Non Overlapping Magisteria

[Frank Robert]

I'm not for "eliminating" scientists.

I'm for getting them converted.

The science pool is a mission field unto itself.

No harm in trying but conversions are rare.

 

[Frank Robert]

Religion is to blame for crusades, inquisition, pogroms,
Twin towers and a million other atrocities.
And they were not mistakes, they did it on purpose
with the intent to do what happened.
Religion. Belief in " god".

Put people in power and they will dream up ways to use it, the more power the greater the damage. Case in point, the US empire.

 

[Ophiolite]

Religion is to blame for crusades, inquisition, pogroms,
Twin towers and a million other atrocities.
And they were not mistakes, they did it on purpose
with the intent to do what happened.
Religion. Belief in " god".

No. That's just people. Some of us found out long ago that Religion provided a really good excuse for doing all these things. Don't blame Religion; blame misapplication of our evolutionary history.

 

[Ophiolite]

No harm in trying but conversions are rare.

And AV's approach is not one likely to cause a scientist to sit up and take notice of what he is saying, in any positive way at least.

 

[AV1611VET]

A man getting a husband? Awesome! Welcome to the enlightened side.

Having gender identity problems, are you?

Here's one of God's cause-and-effects; see if you can determine both effect and gender:

 

[AV1611VET]

And AV's approach is not one likely to cause a scientist to sit up and take notice of what he is saying, in any positive way at least.

This, unfortunately, is probably correct.

Their Leave-God-At-The-Front-Door-When-You-Come-In-Here attitude will ensure they get minimal exposure to the Gospel at work and at school.

 

[Ophiolite]

This, unfortunately, is probably correct.

Their Leave-God-At-The-Front-Door-When-You-Come-In-Here attitude will ensure they get minimal exposure to the Gospel at work and at school.

You must have taken advanced classes in Missing the Point and graduated Magna Cum Laude.

 

[Bradskii]

Questions of identity and purpose.

I don't see religion being concerned with identity. And as for ultimate purpose, there is none. For our own purpose? We make of it as we will. But we're just static in the random noise of an indifferent universe.

There will come a time when someone will have the last thought of you. And then it will be as if you never existed. So...make the most of your time. You won the celestial lottery. Don't waste it.

 

[Bradskii]

No. That's just people. Some of us found out long ago that Religion provided a really good excuse for doing all these things. Don't blame Religion; blame misapplication of our evolutionary history.

Not a fan of Wienberg's aphorism then: 'With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion.'

 

[Frank Robert]

Having gender identity problems, are you?

You are confusing gender identity with sexual orientation. Even the bible recognized sexual orientation.
David's Song for Saul and Jonathan
…25How the mighty have fallen in the thick of battle! Jonathan lies slain on your heights. 26 I grieve for you, Jonathan, my brother. You were delightful to me; your love to me was extraordinary, surpassing the love of women. 27

 

[Frank Robert]

And AV's approach is not one likely to cause a scientist to sit up and take notice of what he is saying, in any positive way at least.

It many ways it has proven to be self-defeating. Among the top reasons why people de-convert are evangelical war on evolution and their antiquated stance on sexual orientation.

 

[Astrid]

No. That's just people. Some of us found out long ago that Religion provided a really good excuse for doing all these things. Don't blame Religion; blame misapplication of our evolutionary history.

Of course it's not religion as such, or science as
such, which was my point. I should have said in the first place.

 

[Job 33:6]

I don't see religion being concerned with identity. And as for ultimate purpose, there is none. For our own purpose? We make of it as we will. But we're just static in the random noise of an indifferent universe.

There will come a time when someone will have the last thought of you. And then it will be as if you never existed. So...make the most of your time. You won the celestial lottery. Don't waste it.

Well that's your belief. You can choose that idea to believe. Religion provides a framework and ideas for an alternative. Rather than not having an answer or belief for why there is something rather than nothing, religion suggests a purpose or reason for existence that transcends ourselves. Rather than a purpose being "none", the purpose generally follows ideas of worship, love and ministry (at least as it pertains to interpretations of the gospel).

Bonnie and Clyde can make of a purpose as they will in robbing banks and living lives of excitement and adventure. But in religion, typically there's an effort to reject purposes that destroy others, or so we ideally like to think. Rather than "none" which doesn't really provide a moral "direction", religion makes an effort to provide some structure for establishing a moral framework. Whether that framework has been perfected is debatable depending on the sect and point in history and time, but it's an effort to construct a unified moral framework none the less.

And maybe one day science will discover "purpose". But that's kind of a strange concept. It's not really something that science works with.

And I would say that religions are strongly concerned with identity in the sense that religious people find purpose for why they exist through religion.

And you mentioned people dying and their names being forgotten. Religion suggests that while our names may be forgotten, God and Gods kingdom of course would be eternal and thus being active in spreading the gospel would serve an eternal kingdom and larger body of Christ and the church forever (or at least until God brings the world to an end, in which case our purpose would be completed).

 

[Astrid]

Well that's your belief. You can choose that idea to believe. Religion provides a framework and ideas for an alternative. Rather than not having an answer or belief for why there is something rather than nothing, religion suggests a purpose or reason for existence that transcends ourselves. Rather than a purpose being "none", the purpose generally follows ideas of worship, love and ministry.

Bonnie and Clyde can make of a purpose as they will in robbing banks and living lives of excitement and adventure. But in religion, typically there's an effort to reject purposes that destroy others, or so we ideally like to think.

And maybe one day science will discover "purpose". But that's kind of a strange concept. It's not really something that science works with.

And I would say that religions are strongly concerned with identity in the sense that religious people find purpose for why they exist through religion.

I suppose it's fine if it suits someone and does
no harm.

In a science discussion it's best to stick to things
which have evidence, that being what science works with.

In general discussion of science v creationism
rr loves around facts, at least at first.
The problem for any religious belief about the
physical world is- no facts.
Flood ? Zero facts for, all known evidence against.

Then it goes SEDI, " same evidence, different interpretation "

As if just being "an interpratstion" were enough.

And finally to "man says, God says".

Some of us like to have actual evidence before
we decide what to believe.

 

[AV1611VET]

Among the top reasons why people de-convert are evangelical war on evolution and their antiquated stance on sexual orientation.

Those wars were going on when those persons were converted.

What changed?

 

[Job 33:6]

I suppose it's fine if it suits someone and does
no harm.

In a science discussion it's best to stick to things
which have evidence, that being what science works with.

In general discussion of science v creationism
rr loves around facts, at least at first.
The problem for any religious belief about the
physical world is- no facts.
Flood ? Zero facts for, all known evidence against.

Then it goes SEDI, " same evidence, different interpretation "

As if just being "an interpratstion" were enough.

And finally to "man says, God says".

Some of us like to have actual evidence before
we decide what to believe.

Well the topic being on Goulds ideas related to separation of majesteria I think makes sense in this regard in that we might not expect religion to be a scientific pursuit. You don't need scientific evidence to have faith. And also, faith can ultimately be in something that is true, even if it is not known via science.

God could hypothetically exist, even if you don't have a laboratory experiment demonstrating God's existence. Some people just think that belief without scientific proof is irrational and some people think that belief without scientific proof can still be in true beliefs and therefore can be rational.

And some people don't like believing in things if they don't have scientific evidence. And that's fine if they take that position. Other people are comfortable believing (albeit usually in unclear ways due to a lack of evidence) in a greater purpose, rather than believing in a purpose of "none". And who is really right, may never be known to us, at least not here on earth. But it just is what it is.

 

[Frank Robert]

Those wars were going on when those persons were converted.

What changed?

I was thinking more about children brought up in evangelical families and basically isolated from outside influences. As they became teens, then adults they were exposed to outside ideas and social norms. As they matured, anti-evolution made less and less sense as did many Christian sexual norms that were now seen as sexual oppression.

 

[AV1611VET]

I was thinking more about children brought up in evangelical families and basically isolated from outside influences.

And if it's good enough for children, it's good enough for adults.

Matthew 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

And if it's good enough for children, it's good enough for adults.

Matthew 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Does that go hand-in-hand with the virgin bride passage? Are we talking child brides now?

 

[Bungle_Bear]

Having gender identity problems, are you?

No. Perhaps you are unaware who the letter was addressed to?

Here's one of God's cause-and-effects; see if you can determine both effect and gender:

The church was created "from water and the word"? What water? Sounds like somebody making things up.