Why The Flesh Cannot Enter The Kingdom

[GallagherM]

Ok

 

[eleos1954]

Really? another FLESH BODY, hmmm....

Then explain this...

1 Cor 15:48-50
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV


I find it truly amazing how you somehow make a change of a flesh body of "corruption" into another flesh body of "incorruption". That especially when Paul made it plain that the body of "incorruption" is a "spiritual body"!

That 1 Corinthians 15:50 verifies what I'm saying. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, neither does CORRUPTION (flesh) inherit INCORRUPTION ("spiritual body").

1 Cor 15:44-45
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
KJV

When Paul says that “flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God,” he’s referring to our flesh and blood as they are now: cursed and under sin. Our present bodies are fallen and destructible, but our future bodies—though still bodies in the fullest sense—will be untouched by sin and indestructible. They will be like Christ’s resurrection body—both physical and indestructible.

Spirit is our mind/heart/thinking .... not something tangible/physical.

Same is true about the Spirit of God.

Romans 8:9
You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ (mind/heart/thinking does not belong to him.

The work of the Holy Spirit is to change our mind/heart/thinking (our spirit).

When resurrected we will have a pure mind/heart/thinking (not tainted with sin - spiritual) and a physical body, both indestructible because there will be no sin in it.

So at resurrection both mind and body are raised up sinless (indestructible) ... no sin in either (spiritual or physical) .... and will enter heaven changed ... completely sinless.

 

[GallagherM]

Ok Eleos, if that what you believe; I believe in the contrary.

 

[Davy]

When Paul says that “flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God,” he’s referring to our flesh and blood as they are now: cursed and under sin. Our present bodies are fallen and destructible, but our future bodies—though still bodies in the fullest sense—will be untouched by sin and indestructible. They will be like Christ’s resurrection body—both physical and indestructible.

You didn't understand Lord Jesus in John 3 when He said, 'that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of The Spirit is spirit'??

It's simple science: there are 2 DIFFERENT DIMENSIONS OF EXISTENCE in God's Word, this earthly one, and the heavenly one behind a veil we cannot see. This is GOD's science, not man's . The things of THIS earthly dimension are NOT... the things of THAT Heavenly dimension. Yet they can... exist in the same space and time; this proven by the Bible examples of angels appearing on earth to flesh men, and even eating man's food (Genesis 18 & 19, probably my favorite examples).

earthly = material world, flesh is a material from this earth matter.
Heavenly = Spirit, not material matter; original existence, Spirit is what created... earth matter.

In Hebrews 11, we are shown that the things of this world were not made of things seen, which means material earthly matter cannot create itself, nor destroy itself. That means something outside... of material matter had to create it. And that is our Heavenly Father and His Son and The Holy Spirit.

So we cannot... say flesh is the same thing as spirit. It is not, and that is GOD's science per His Word.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

When Paul says that “flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God,” he’s referring to our flesh and blood as they are now: cursed and under sin. Our present bodies are fallen and destructible, but our future bodies—though still bodies in the fullest sense—will be untouched by sin and indestructible. They will be like Christ’s resurrection body—both physical and indestructible.

Spirit is our mind/heart/thinking .... not something tangible/physical.

Same is true about the Spirit of God.

Romans 8:9
You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ (mind/heart/thinking does not belong to him.

The work of the Holy Spirit is to change our mind/heart/thinking (our spirit).

When resurrected we will have a pure mind/heart/thinking (not tainted with sin - spiritual) and a physical body, both indestructible because there will be no sin in it.

So at resurrection both mind and body are raised up sinless (indestructible) ... no sin in either (spiritual or physical) .... and will enter heaven changed ... completely sinless.

Spot on !

 

[ViaCrucis]

Please consider everything written here before posting.

So the other day my teacher taught a lesson on Romans 7; and the perspective of the life of Apostle Paul and his writing about himself as a Christian believer; in his struggles between the flesh and the spirit. He even absolves himself by saying that when is flesh acts up it is not Him that is doing it. In Romans 7:17 and it is the sin that dwells in the Apostle Paul, who was a Disciple of Christ who is showing from his own experience of being a Christian chosen Apostle in life from his writing.

If you ever read this before 19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, 21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. From Galatians 5.

Why is it any of these actions of the flesh not inherit the kingdom of God? Because all of the actions though people may not react upon them reside in our flesh, in this body of death. Paul exclaims as a living and breathing Apostle this notion : Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?.

Thinking on why it is our fleshly body can not go to heaven is because of it's sinfulness. It was tainted with sin since birth, and we can not shake it off as much as a dog who needs to go to a groomer for a flea bath to take care of the fleas that has not way of getting their because of no owner, to take them to be cleaned.

Jesus Christ who is the way, the truth, the life, and no one has access to the Father except by and through Him; is the one who cleanses us of our sins and forgives us, in which from God we are in-birthed with faith by being persuaded by God and the hope He provides to us as believers. We are given a spirit to live by and that spirit is the spirit of Christ that resides with-in. Where you may ask? It it in the flesh? I would suggest it is inside of the Body of Flesh; is where the Spirit resides and because we are now spiritually raised from the dead with Christ; we are able to live by the spirit if we walk by the spirit.

Seeking out the things of the spirit and not so much the flesh; And the spirit causes us to have self-control over our flesh; kindness, gentleness, faithfulness, love, joy, peace, forbearance, longsuffering towards God and towards Others.

The Flesh can not enter the kingdom of heaven because it is tainted with sin; it will corrupt go into the ground and die but where do you go? Where does your soul (mind(heart)/will/emotion) Go? Our Soul goes back to God; and we are judged and resurrected into spiritual bodies from there on, at least that is what I believe.

What do you believe, or think about these matters? Please share your perspective if you would like to.

The resurrection body is this body resurrected. But let's be clear, while it is this body, it is very different from this body. It's still flesh, bone, matter--the same stuff as we are made up of now. What is different is that the present body is, as St. Paul writes soulish (psuchekos), and thus subject to the futility of death--immortal and perishable; but in the resurrection the body is made Spiritual (pneumatikos), no longer quickened by the animal appetites of this present fallen age, but transformed and made alive by the power of the Spirit (Romans 8:11).

When the Apostle says "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom" he is not talking about heaven. He is talking about the fact that our present kind of existence is not fit for what God has in store for the world. Which is why "this mortal must put on immortality" and "this perishable must put on the imperishable", the body is sown a soulish body, it is raised a Spiritual body.

The Christian hope is not "going to heaven", but is the resurrection of the body, the renewal of all creation, and the eternal life of the Age to Come. The time spent between between death and resurrection "in heaven" is not our hope. That is only the intermediate state, it's the comfortable lobby or day-spa before the real attraction.

This is why the Apostles' Creed so clearly reads that we believe "in the resurrection of the body", in the original Latin of the Creed it is carnis resurrectionem, literally "resurrection of [bodily] flesh".

What God has done for Jesus He is going to do for us and the whole world. That is the Christian hope, that is what salvation, big picture, looks like.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

So what does that mean Eleos1954?

Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.”

Behold my hands and feed; that it is I myself; (The Flesh?). Handle me and see (The Flesh?)

For a spirit (Spirit) does not have flesh and bones as you see I have. Seeing the flesh and bones of Jesus Christ; then Jesus talks about the (Spirit); A spirit does not have flesh and bones.

What do you make of this brother out of curiosity? I still can not say what a spirit looks like other than it has no flesh or bones, just like I can not tell you what the wind looks like.

Jesus wasn't a spirit, a phantom, or a ghost.

Jesus' tomb is empty--no body in the tomb, because the body of Jesus was literally walking around in the flesh. That is why the Risen Jesus says what He says there.

That's why "Spiritual body" does not mean "spirit" or non-material body. It's a literal solid flesh body. The body that was crucified on Friday afternoon was raised up on Sunday morning: Christ is risen.

Resurrection is not flowery prose or allegory. Resurrection means resurrection. Resurrection applies to bodies, solid bodies, of fleshly matter.

Jesus Christ rose from the dead.
When Jesus returns, all of the dead shall be resurrected.
And then God will make all things new, and He shall be "all in all".

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Davy]

The resurrection body is this body resurrected. But let's be clear, while it is this body, it is very different from this body.

No, it's not still "this body".

1 Cor 15:49-50
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV

Why do you have a problem with what Apostle Paul said above? That "image of the heavenly" is what he was pointing to for the resurrection body type, as also not flesh and blood. What you are pushing, claiming the resurrection body is another one of flesh and blood goes directly against what Paul taught there. It shows you don't have a clue about the resurrection body type.

 

[Davy]

Jesus wasn't a spirit, a phantom, or a ghost.

Jesus' tomb is empty--no body in the tomb, because the body of Jesus was literally walking around in the flesh. That is why the Risen Jesus says what He says there.

That's why "Spiritual body" does not mean "spirit" or non-material body. It's a literal solid flesh body. The body that was crucified on Friday afternoon was raised up on Sunday morning: Christ is risen.

Resurrection is not flowery prose or allegory. Resurrection means resurrection. Resurrection applies to bodies, solid bodies, of fleshly matter.

Jesus Christ rose from the dead.
When Jesus returns, all of the dead shall be resurrected.
And then God will make all things new, and He shall be "all in all".

-CryptoLutheran

Well, you made it flowery prose by that bad interpretation of the phrase "spiritual body" from Apostle Paul.


NT:4152
pneumatiko
pneumatikos (pnyoo-mat-ik-os'); from NT:4151; non-carnal, i.e. (humanly) ethereal (as opposed to gross), or (daemoniacally) a spirit (concretely), or (divinely) supernatural, regenerate, religious:

KJV - spiritual. Compare NT:5591.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006, 2010 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

Trying to change the meaning of that Greek word for "spiritual" in 1 Cor.15 is like trying to say paper is the same thing as rubber.

 

[ViaCrucis]

No, it's not still "this body".

1 Cor 15:49-50
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV

Why do you have a problem with what Apostle Paul said above? That "image of the heavenly" is what he was pointing to for the resurrection body type, as also not flesh and blood. What you are pushing, claiming the resurrection body is another one of flesh and blood goes directly against what Paul taught there. It shows you don't have a clue about the resurrection body type.

The image of the heavenly is Jesus Christ, and He very much has the same body that was crucified and laid in the tomb.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Davy]

The image of the heavenly is Jesus Christ, and He very much has the same body that was crucified and laid in the tomb.

-CryptoLutheran

Nah, that idea that flesh and blood inherited Heaven goes directly against what Apostle Paul said in 1 Corinthians 15:44-50.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Nah, that idea that flesh and blood inherited Heaven goes directly against what Apostle Paul said in 1 Corinthians 15:44-50.

Okay, so what happened to Jesus' body on Easter morning?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Davy]

Okay, so what happened to Jesus' body on Easter morning?

-CryptoLutheran

According to Apostle Paul, our Lord Jesus flesh body was made "a quickening spirit". So just at what stage during His resurrection was that transfiguration from His flesh body to His quickened spirit body, you be the judge.

1 Cor 15:44-50
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV

Some think it happened at the time He ascended to Heaven in Acts 1. I don't know. God knows.

John 20:17
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch Me not; for I am not yet ascended to My Father: but go to My brethren, and say unto them, 'I ascend unto My Father, and your Father; and to My God, and your God.'
KJV

That still doesn't explain our resurrection, but only Christ's, because our flesh won't be transfigured like His, as it is plain to see people's flesh decays in the casket buried per Ecclesiastes 12:5-7.

1 Cor.15:44
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Paul actually gives more info in that above verse about something that is sown to a natural body (flesh), and then is raised to a spiritual body. He is showing that "It" is something independent from either body type. I have to assume he is pointing to our mortal soul being sown into a natural body at birth, and then 'it' is raised as spiritual body at death, per Eccl.12:5-7. Afterall, Paul defined our makeup God created us as having spirit, soul, and body (flesh) while alive on earth (1 Thessalonians 5:23).

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

The image of the heavenly is Jesus Christ, and He very much has the same body that was crucified and laid in the tomb.

-CryptoLutheran

Amen and to deny this is also denying the gospel which at its heart/core is the Bodily Resurrection and Ascension of Jesus. This is a salvific issue.

 

[ViaCrucis]

According to Apostle Paul, our Lord Jesus flesh body was made "a quickening spirit". So just at what stage during His resurrection was that transfiguration from His flesh body to His quickened spirit body, you be the judge.

1 Cor 15:44-50
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV

Some think it happened at the time He ascended to Heaven in Acts 1. I don't know. God knows.

John 20:17
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch Me not; for I am not yet ascended to My Father: but go to My brethren, and say unto them, 'I ascend unto My Father, and your Father; and to My God, and your God.'
KJV

That still doesn't explain our resurrection, but only Christ's, because our flesh won't be transfigured like His, as it is plain to see people's flesh decays in the casket buried per Ecclesiastes 12:5-7.

1 Cor.15:44
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Paul actually gives more info in that above verse about something that is sown to a natural body (flesh), and then is raised to a spiritual body. He is showing that "It" is something independent from either body type. I have to assume he is pointing to our mortal soul being sown into a natural body at birth, and then 'it' is raised as spiritual body at death, per Eccl.12:5-7. Afterall, Paul defined our makeup God created us as having spirit, soul, and body (flesh) while alive on earth (1 Thessalonians 5:23).

So why does Jesus speak of His flesh and bones? Why does He bear the wounds of His Passion?

Your insistence upon your wrong interpretation of these texts results in having to deny the very plain words of Scripture: Jesus rose bodily from the dead, and so shall we.

And not to be too on the nose, but I would be very irresponsible if I did not warn you that what you are advocating is rank heresy. Denial of the bodily resurrection is not just another heresy, but one of the chiefest heresies.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[GallagherM]

He is not denying the bodily resurrection here.

He is simply answering your questions.

What do you think about his point with the use of scripture?

 

[Davy]

So why does Jesus speak of His flesh and bones? Why does He bear the wounds of His Passion?

Of course His quickened body bears those wounds forever more, as a remembrance for us. Per Genesis 18, our Lord Jesus with two angels appeared at Abraham's tent door. Abraham called Him Lord, and prepared food and drink for them. And they did eat. Now we know Lord Jesus had no flesh body then, because He was yet to be born of woman's womb. And we know angels don't have flesh bodies. So how did He, and the two angels eat our food? And after His resurrection when He appeared to His disciples, He suddenly appeared in their midst out of nowhere. He did this three times, and one time at supper, He suddenly disappeared right among them. Flesh and blood cannot do that.

Understanding God's Word comes about especially by allowing God's Word to interpret itself. That's why God left us so many witnesses in His Word for a Truth.

Your insistence upon your wrong interpretation of these texts results in having to deny the very plain words of Scripture: Jesus rose bodily from the dead, and so shall we.

And not to be too on the nose, but I would be very irresponsible if I did not warn you that what you are advocating is rank heresy. Denial of the bodily resurrection is not just another heresy, but one of the chiefest heresies.

-CryptoLutheran

My insistence is on KEEPING TO THE SCRIPTURES AS WRITTEN. So if you want to stay with your men's traditions instead, then fine. I don't care if you don't like to understand God's Word as written. Keep playing church.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Amen and to deny this is also denying the gospel which at its heart/core is the Bodily Resurrection and Ascension of Jesus. This is a salvific issue.

You're right. Though I don't believe that the heretics who deny Christ's bodily resurrection are, on this account, in danger of damnation (for God's grace is bigger than our theological deficiencies). But it is a salvific issue in that this is a matter of soteriology.

Salvation, biblically speaking, is nonsense without resurrection--the resurrection of our Lord as the firstfruits, and the resurrection of the dead at the end. It is this resurrection and renewal at Christ's coming that is the ends toward which we have been saved in this life, that we might believe and practice what we believe here and now.

Had God wanted to abandon this world and deny our bodies, then the Incarnation, the life, the sufferings, the death, the resurrection, the ascension, the present reign, and future return of our Lord makes absolutely no sense.

The problem is that so much of modern Christianity has been rendered confused and ignorant of the most fundamental teachings of our religion because it is--if I might speak in broad critical terms--being supplanted by a Moralistic Manichaeanism. Christianity reduced to just another esoteric struggle between light and dark, and if we are on the "right side" then we shall go and dwell in that light as disembodied spirits away from the crude, evil matter of the world. Salvation becomes at once meaningless, selfish, and not salvation at all in any biblical sense.

What God has done for Jesus, He is going to do for us and the whole world. If this is not the case, then Christianity is a false religion. If this is the case, then Christianity is the only true religion.

"If Christ is risen, nothing else matters. And if Christ is not risen-nothing else matters." - Jaroslav Pelikan

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

You're right. Though I don't believe that the heretics who deny Christ's bodily resurrection are, on this account, in danger of damnation (for God's grace is bigger than our theological deficiencies). But it is a salvific issue in that this is a matter of soteriology.

Salvation, biblically speaking, is nonsense without resurrection--the resurrection of our Lord as the firstfruits, and the resurrection of the dead at the end. It is this resurrection and renewal at Christ's coming that is the ends toward which we have been saved in this life, that we might believe and practice what we believe here and now.

Had God wanted to abandon this world and deny our bodies, then the Incarnation, the life, the sufferings, the death, the resurrection, the ascension, the present reign, and future return of our Lord makes absolutely no sense.

The problem is that so much of modern Christianity has been rendered confused and ignorant of the most fundamental teachings of our religion because it is--if I might speak in broad critical terms--being supplanted by a Moralistic Manichaeanism. Christianity reduced to just another esoteric struggle between light and dark, and if we are on the "right side" then we shall go and dwell in that light as disembodied spirits away from the crude, evil matter of the world. Salvation becomes at once meaningless, selfish, and not salvation at all in any biblical sense.

What God has done for Jesus, He is going to do for us and the whole world. If this is not the case, then Christianity is a false religion. If this is the case, then Christianity is the only true religion.

"If Christ is risen, nothing else matters. And if Christ is not risen-nothing else matters." - Jaroslav Pelikan

-CryptoLutheran

Yes it’s the foundation of our faith and the core doctrine the Apostles preached in Acts and in their epistles for which they also gave up their lives as martyrs because they were eyewitness of His physical, bodily Resurrection and Ascension.

 

[GallagherM]

I believe that Jesus Christ rose again; and was seen by the apostles, and touched, and witness by 500 hundred others.

I am kind of still confused about Jesus Christ to and what happened to Him.

I do know the scripture does say 1 Corinthians 15:50 Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

Why is it that Paul makes these distinction even being as an Apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God?

That Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; Is Apostle Paul lying here? Is what He saying not true at all? Might as well throw out the whole bible.

@ViaCrucis

I believe in the Gospel of Christ but I also would like to know more about what Happened to Jesus because it is confusing sometimes when it comes to the Ascension of Christ Jesus and also that 1 Corinthians does talk about going on to obtain spiritual bodies and I do not know what that is like but I also do believe Jesus Christ came, died, and was risen again from the dead in the body He lived in.

It is just confusing and I can honestly admit that.

@Davy you did a good job explaining what you do know by using scriptures thank you for that I do apperciate it.